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I believe Queen innocent. Fersen loved MA as friend not lover.

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  • janet fauble
    I am not a professional historian but I have read a variety of fiction and nonfiction books which are to be taken for what they are, an author s interest in a
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 1, 2012
      I am not a professional historian but I have read a variety of fiction and nonfiction books which are to be taken for what they are, an author's interest in a specific topic.  I have viewed all the pamphlets, have read the variety of defenses and charges regarding them, and simply consider that the Queen is innocent until proved guilty.  Romanticists like to conjure up images which suit their own imagination. I have no particular reason to believe one way or another as I have read many impassioned statements on this discussion group alone.  I am convinced that the Royal Family was watched night and day.  Many lies were disseminated by their enemies.  Their friends believed in their goodness and decency.  They behaved admirably under the circumstances.  There is nothing to suggest that Axel Fersen ever did anything more than love this woman as a great friend, but not as a lover.  He had lovers enough already.  His appears to be a chaste and moral attitude towards a woman he held in great esteem.   

      From: alecker23 <alecker23@...>
      To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:53 PM
      Subject: Re: Pamphlets alleged MA promiscuous. I believe her innocent.

       
      Yes, the queen was hurted by the pre-revolutionary propaganda and the sexuality was a good subject for many authors and inspirators.But a historian have obligation to reject any hypothesis.Marie-Antoinette was not only a sovereigh,she was a human also!And a good historian have the obligation to examine all of sources.A historian do want to defend a died historic figure under moral,virtuous pretext commit a non-sens.Yes,the queen suffered during Revolution and was guillotined.But ,any serious historians doubt today that the principal Tribunal révolutionnaire charge against the queen was not funded.This charge was the high treason against France.But Marie-Antoinette considered the new France regime and order illegal and illegitimate.And she had no remorses to betrayed a country not royalty obedient.The queen correspondance with her mentor Mercy-Argenteau and Fersen prove this evidence.

      About Marie-Antoinette sexuality, I am circumspect.Therefore I not reject the possibility of extra-conjugal liaisons and maybe lesbian adventures.Don't forget that the Marie-Antoinette sister Marie-Caroline Naples kingdom queen was reputed for her hot temper and had many liaisons with mens and womens.And,many individuals ignore this fact,the France court was not a virtous court.Don't astound Marie-Antoinette with Victoria queen and her erea!!!!!

      The royal mariage was dicted by France-Autriche alliance politic and was not a success.Louis XVI take seven years to consommated his mariage and Marie-Antoinette had not really attraction for him.She qualified the king <<pauvre homme>> on hers letters...

      And it's really hard to pretend that Marie-Antoinette do never betrayed the mariage code.On his last meeting with the queen ,Fersen wrote <<resté là>>in his daily journal...And this words(a code) on his journal indicated a night with a woman.

      For the end,the queen memory deserve respect,of course.The true search and the objectivity also.

      --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@...> wrote:
      >
      > The pamphlets alleged that Queen Marie Antoinette was promiscuous, engaged in all kinds of scandalous behaviour, which included lesbian type behaviour but none of it was true, but simply propaganda designed to hurt her and libel her.    I personally do not know that she ever was in love with Axel Fersen or not any more than if she had ever been involved in unseemly behaviour for a queen with Madame de Polignac.  I prefer to believe like so many that she was a dutiful and faithful wife to her husband, that her close friends were trusted friends with whom she shared confidences but did not abuse the faith that she had been raised in by scandalous acts or behaviour.    It makes a sensational movie, pandering to certain groups of people and for that reason alone is good reason not to believe in anything that this director has to say about the queen.  Friends have always testified to the goodness of the queen, and I prefer to think of her as having
      > been innocent of the accusations thrown at her.   This movie will make me think less of the director and writers more than well of them.  Jan
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: axel <Rand103242@...>
      > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:29 PM
      > Subject: Marie Antoinette Was In Love With A Woman!
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      > And that's dramatized in a marvy new movie called Farewell, My Queen, starring Diane Kruger as Marie Antoinette and Virginie Ledoyen as the object of her royal affections, the Duchess Gabrielle de Polignac.
      >
      > In the film (which will open in July just in time for Bastille Day), Marie Antoinette gushes over the Duchess, oozes over her, trembles at the thought of her name, and begs her not to desert her.
      >
      > It's basically Ellen and Portia, but even higher-class.
      >
      > And it's "a folly that will cost her dearly," according to one character.
      >
      > And that's not all!
      >
      > Marie Antoinette carries on a chaster flirtation with her young reader, Sidonie (Lea Seydoux, from Midnight in Paris), who in turn is smitten with her boss.
      >
      > Says director Benoît Jacquot:
      >
      > "Sidonie is literally madly in love with the queen!
      >
      > "I was really interested in the child-like infatuation she had for Marie Antoinette, as well as the more 'perverse' relationship between the Queen and the Duchess of Polignac.
      >
      > "The love triangle electrifies the film."
      >
      > The Marie Antoinette/Sidonie interplay, Benoît says, "is less obviously sexual than the relationshp between the Queen and Polignac.
      > "Except the Queen herself maintains a sexual ambiguity with Sidonie.
      > "She enthuses over her chubby arms and rubs her to soothe a mosquito bite.
      >
      > "Like a wild creature, Marie Antoinette loves everything carnal."
      > My kind of queen!
      >
      > * * * * *
      >
      > The above review with the above title is a review of the French movie Farewell My Queen written by Michael Musto in what appears to be the blogs of Village Voice.
      >
      > Here is a link to the article by Mr. Musto -
      > http://blogs.villagevoice.com/dailymusto/2012/04/marie_antoinett.php
      >
      > Also posted is the photo that accompanied the article from the movies showing Marie Antoinette tete a tete with the Duchesse de Polignac.
      >
      > Other reviews of this movie are also welcome. Also welcome are comments on what Mr. Musto has written.
      >
      > Do you too think Marie Antoinette was in love with the Duchesse de Polignac?
      >
      > Axel
      >



    • alecker23
      Yes, the queen was watched systematically by the court.But,I am desolate for your opinion,the probably best Marie-Antoinette historian and biographer Évelyne
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 2, 2012
        Yes, the queen was watched systematically by the court.But,I am desolate for your opinion,the probably best Marie-Antoinette historian and biographer Évelyne Lever,had proved the fact that Marie-Antoinette to fit a room at Versailles without surveillance and any glances.Marie-Antoinette comitted a error with her ambition to have a private life.Any of last France queen comitted this error.


        About the queen and Fersen,the letters wrote by Marie-Antoinette speak!When the queen wrote in hers letters for Fersen:<<Adieu le plus aimé et le plus aimant des hommes>>,<<Je vous envoie mille baisers>>,can you believe that the Marie-Antoinette and Fersen love was essentially platonic?Recently, the totally queen correspondance with Fersen was edited by Lever.


        And don't forget the Fersen daily journal who a night in Tuileries queen room was mentioned...History science is founded on sources study and examen.


        I conclude my message.The queen had the possibility to court eyes escape and hers letters proved a not really chaste love with Fersen.

        --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am not a professional historian but I have read a variety of fiction and nonfiction books which are to be taken for what they are, an author's interest in a specific topic.  I have viewed all the pamphlets, have read the variety of defenses and charges regarding them, and simply consider that the Queen is innocent until proved guilty.  Romanticists like to conjure up images which suit their own imagination. I have no particular reason to believe one way or another as I have read many impassioned statements on this discussion group alone.  I am convinced that the Royal Family was watched night and day.  Many lies were disseminated by their enemies.  Their friends believed in their goodness and decency.  They behaved admirably under the circumstances.  There is nothing to suggest that Axel Fersen ever did anything more than love this woman as a great friend, but not as a lover.  He had lovers enough already.  His appears to be a chaste and moral
        > attitude towards a woman he held in great esteem.   
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: alecker23 <alecker23@...>
        > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:53 PM
        > Subject: Re: Pamphlets alleged MA promiscuous. I believe her innocent.
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        > Yes, the queen was hurted by the pre-revolutionary propaganda and the sexuality was a good subject for many authors and inspirators.But a historian have obligation to reject any hypothesis.Marie-Antoinette was not only a sovereigh,she was a human also!And a good historian have the obligation to examine all of sources.A historian do want to defend a died historic figure under moral,virtuous pretext commit a non-sens.Yes,the queen suffered during Revolution and was guillotined.But ,any serious historians doubt today that the principal Tribunal révolutionnaire charge against the queen was not funded.This charge was the high treason against France.But Marie-Antoinette considered the new France regime and order illegal and illegitimate.And she had no remorses to betrayed a country not royalty obedient.The queen correspondance with her mentor Mercy-Argenteau and Fersen prove this evidence.
        >
        > About Marie-Antoinette sexuality, I am circumspect.Therefore I not reject the possibility of extra-conjugal liaisons and maybe lesbian adventures.Don't forget that the Marie-Antoinette sister Marie-Caroline Naples kingdom queen was reputed for her hot temper and had many liaisons with mens and womens.And,many individuals ignore this fact,the France court was not a virtous court.Don't astound Marie-Antoinette with Victoria queen and her erea!!!!!
        >
        > The royal mariage was dicted by France-Autriche alliance politic and was not a success.Louis XVI take seven years to consommated his mariage and Marie-Antoinette had not really attraction for him.She qualified the king <<pauvre homme>> on hers letters...
        >
        > And it's really hard to pretend that Marie-Antoinette do never betrayed the mariage code.On his last meeting with the queen ,Fersen wrote <<resté là>>in his daily journal...And this words(a code) on his journal indicated a night with a woman.
        >
        > For the end,the queen memory deserve respect,of course.The true search and the objectivity also.
        >
        > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@> wrote:
        > >
        > > The pamphlets alleged that Queen Marie Antoinette was promiscuous, engaged in all kinds of scandalous behaviour, which included lesbian type behaviour but none of it was true, but simply propaganda designed to hurt her and libel her.    I personally do not know that she ever was in love with Axel Fersen or not any more than if she had ever been involved in unseemly behaviour for a queen with Madame de Polignac.  I prefer to believe like so many that she was a dutiful and faithful wife to her husband, that her close friends were trusted friends with whom she shared confidences but did not abuse the faith that she had been raised in by scandalous acts or behaviour.    It makes a sensational movie, pandering to certain groups of people and for that reason alone is good reason not to believe in anything that this director has to say about the queen.  Friends have always testified to the goodness of the queen, and I prefer to think
        > of her as having
        > > been innocent of the accusations thrown at her.   This movie will make me think less of the director and writers more than well of them.  Jan
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: axel <Rand103242@>
        > > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:29 PM
        > > Subject: Marie Antoinette Was In Love With A Woman!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > > And that's dramatized in a marvy new movie called Farewell, My Queen, starring Diane Kruger as Marie Antoinette and Virginie Ledoyen as the object of her royal affections, the Duchess Gabrielle de Polignac.
        > >
        > > In the film (which will open in July just in time for Bastille Day), Marie Antoinette gushes over the Duchess, oozes over her, trembles at the thought of her name, and begs her not to desert her.
        > >
        > > It's basically Ellen and Portia, but even higher-class.
        > >
        > > And it's "a folly that will cost her dearly," according to one character.
        > >
        > > And that's not all!
        > >
        > > Marie Antoinette carries on a chaster flirtation with her young reader, Sidonie (Lea Seydoux, from Midnight in Paris), who in turn is smitten with her boss.
        > >
        > > Says director Benoît Jacquot:
        > >
        > > "Sidonie is literally madly in love with the queen!
        > >
        > > "I was really interested in the child-like infatuation she had for Marie Antoinette, as well as the more 'perverse' relationship between the Queen and the Duchess of Polignac.
        > >
        > > "The love triangle electrifies the film."
        > >
        > > The Marie Antoinette/Sidonie interplay, Benoît says, "is less obviously sexual than the relationshp between the Queen and Polignac.
        > > "Except the Queen herself maintains a sexual ambiguity with Sidonie.
        > > "She enthuses over her chubby arms and rubs her to soothe a mosquito bite.
        > >
        > > "Like a wild creature, Marie Antoinette loves everything carnal."
        > > My kind of queen!
        > >
        > > * * * * *
        > >
        > > The above review with the above title is a review of the French movie Farewell My Queen written by Michael Musto in what appears to be the blogs of Village Voice.
        > >
        > > Here is a link to the article by Mr. Musto -
        > > http://blogs.villagevoice.com/dailymusto/2012/04/marie_antoinett.php
        > >
        > > Also posted is the photo that accompanied the article from the movies showing Marie Antoinette tete a tete with the Duchesse de Polignac.
        > >
        > > Other reviews of this movie are also welcome. Also welcome are comments on what Mr. Musto has written.
        > >
        > > Do you too think Marie Antoinette was in love with the Duchesse de Polignac?
        > >
        > > Axel
        > >
        >
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