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RE: They cheered death of king and queen - Why?

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  • ivan lyons
    I am often dumb struck by the tunnel vision of some people here, if i had been around in 1793 i would of probably cheered her execution as loudly as the man
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
      I am often dumb struck by the tunnel vision of some people here, if i had been around in 1793 i would of probably cheered her execution as loudly as the man next to me or to be looking over my shoulder wondering if i was next in the shit at the conciergerie, the french revolution was a violent and bloody affair that cost over 16,000 people their lives, it was not a fairy tale written by some withered old hag with butterflies for brains and the king and queen riding off into the sunset to live happily ever after in cuckoo land, they were victims of circumstance, the decadence of louis 15, the betrayal by the monarchy of the french people by trying to flee the country not once but twice, nothing is ever said of her indulgences, madame veto, the austrian committee, her ignorance in snubbing patriots, descarilisation, the kings denouncing of the revolution, the political struggle between the montagnards/jacobins and the girondists, the appeal to the people, the vote at the convention over the execution of the king (bearing in mind at that time the convention was probably the most democratic in europe), the financial ruin of the country caused by frances funding of the american civil war, salt taxes, the price of basic food stuffs, the black markets, the sacking of the patriots from the government by the king which led to the journee of aug 10 on the then newly fortified tuileries, though the king and queen were already ensconsed in the menage by then. the french revolution was very complex and to try and understand the mechanics of it here would take far too long, anyway there were enough supporters of the monarchy in and around paris and in the country as whole to of started a counter revolution in fact on the day of his execution an attempt to rescue him was made though the attempt was not full on. oh and the brunswick manifesto, that would of incited me to of rioted as well, there was a lot of support for the king a majority of the revolutionary stance came in the major cities, consider toulouse and the english fleet or the burning of lyon. the absolute/constitutional monarch. As a group the members will probably know more than myself about the revolution and should realise that between them they did nothing but accelerate the demise of themselves and the french monarchy and did nothing to prevent it either, so to repeatedly put her on a pedastol like she is a forgotten heroine or that they were hard done by is a farce. i recently visited paris which is a wonderful city and while sat outside a cafe at the comedie francaise sipping a fresh cappucino, absorbing the atmosphere and being really as french as an englishman can be without reaching for a long bow and discharging a quivver of arrows, i came to the conclusion that if the revolution had not occured, paris would not be paris as it is. 
       
      anyway by way of an answer this is by albert soubol :-
       
      I doubt not that the King's death will be described in different ways, as the partisan spirit dictates, and that garbled versions of this great event will appear in the newspapers and be noised abroad in such a manner as to distort the truth. As an eyewitness, who has always been far removed from the prejudice of parties, and who is but too well acquainted with the worthlessness of the aura popularis, I am going to give you a faithful account of what happened. I greatly regret that I was obliged to attend the execution bearing arms with the other citizens of the section and I write to you now with my heart filled with grief and my whole being stunned by the shock of this dreadful experience.
      Louis, who, fortified by the principles of religion, seemed completely resigned to meet death, left his prison in the Temple about nine in the morning and was taken to the place of execution in the mayor's carriage with his confessor and two gendarmes, the curtains being drawn.
      When he arrived at his destination he looked at the scaffold without flinching. The executioner at once proceeded to perform the customary rite by cutting off the King's hair which he put in his pocket. Louis then walked up onto the scaffold. The air was filled with the roll of numerous drums, seemingly intended to prevent the people from demanding grace. The drumbeats were hushed for a moment by a gesture from Louis himself, but at a signal from the adjutant of the General of the National Guard, they recommenced with such force that Louis's voice was drowned and it was only possible to catch a few stray words like "I forgive my enemies." At the same time he took a few steps round the fatal plank to which he was drawn by a feeling of horror natural to any man on the brink of death or, maybe, he conceived that the people might appeal for grace, for what man does not cling to hope even in his last moments?
      The adjutant ordered the executioner to do his duty and in a trice Louis was fastened onto the deadly plank of the machine they call the guillotine and his head was cut off so quickly that he could hardly have suffered. This at least is a merit belonging to the murderous instrument which bears the name of the doctor who invented it. The executioner immediately lifted the head from the sack into which it fell automatically and displayed it to the people.
      As soon as the execution had taken place, the expression on the faces of many spectators changed and, from having worn an air of somber consternation, they shifted to another mood and fell to crying, "Vive la Nation!" At least one can say this of the cavalry who witnessed the execution and who waved their helmets on the point of their sabers.
      Some of the citizens followed suit, but a great number withdrew, their spirits racked with pain, to shed tears in the bosom of their families.
      As decapitation could not be performed without spilling blood on the scaffold many persons hurried to the spot to dip the end of their handkerchief or a piece of paper in it, to have a reminder of this memorable event, for one need not have recourse to odious interpretations of such actions
       

      To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
      From: Rand103242@...
      Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:37:52 +0000
      Subject: They cheered death of king and queen - Why?

       
      Why did the people cheer the deaths of King Louis and Queen Marie Antoinette?

      It could be the propoganda of the time that had worked the people into such a frenzy of hatred for king and queen.

      Axel

      --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia" <MadameAntoine@...> wrote:
      >
      > Re: Death of Louis XVI ... and Widow Capet
      >
      > When I read over both Louis XVI and Antoinette's execution, I am always struck by how cruel and gruesome we human beings can be in
      > the cheering on of the death of another human being and holding up
      > the severed head and also how they carelessly threw Antoinette's
      > severed head between her body after she was guillotined.
      >
      > As we have observed the happenings of Egypt and the relatively peaceful revolution of the Egyption people and its success we
      > can see the major differences of a peaceful revolution and a violent
      > one. Of course this is a different time period but today, with what
      > has happened regarding Mubarek and the Egyption people...it has been inspiring to see what they've accomplished peacefully, rather than the violence and mayhem of the French Revolution.
      >
      > We can be most thankful that the guillotine resides as a part of
      > history and not of our time. Would France be the country that it is
      > today had Louis XVI and Antoinette not "paid the price" with their
      > heads? Was it really necessary, because of that period of time that the Revolution be so violent? Just musing.
      >
      > regards,
      > Patricia
      >
      > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "axel" <Rand103242@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Today marks the anniversary, January 21, 1793, when Louis XVI was executed and Marie Antoinette lost her husband and became the Widow Capet.
      > >
      > > In January 1793, after trial by the National Convention, the former King of France, Louis XVI was found guilty and sentenced to death. On this date, January 21, Louis was driven by closed coach to the Place de Revolution in Paris where he mounted the stairs to the scaffold. He said to the hushed crowd "I die Innocent..." Then, his final words drowned out by the drum roll. Louis was then beheaded by the blade of the guillotine. His bloody head then shown to the cheering crowd.
      > >
      > > Louis was just 38 years old, his wife, Marie Antoinette 37. They had been married 22 years when he was taken from her.
      > >
      > > The former Queen in her grief now faced widowhood with her remaining
      > > family, her young son, her daughter and sister in law. The former royal family remainded under close confinement in the grim Temple prison. There Marie Antoinette would await her own fate.
      > >
      > >
      > > Axel
      > >
      >


    • Leah Marie
      Dear Janet ~ You asked a very good question. I got so excited in my answer here that I realized I was writing a book! Also, I wanted to attach photos to go
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 3, 2011
        Dear Janet ~

        You asked a very good question. I got so excited in my answer here that I realized I was writing a book! Also, I wanted to attach photos to go along with my answer, but could not. So, I have typed up a rather lengthy answer and placed on my blog, Titillating Tidbits About the Life and Times of Marie Antoinette.

        Take a look.

        http://leahmariebrownhistoricals.blogspot.com/2011/03/question-about-queens-imprisonment.html

        All the best,

        Leah Marie



        --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Alecker,  I am under the impression that the imprisonment in the Temple
        > was vastly different from that in the Conciergerie.  But again records of those
        > times are probably questionable anyway.  But supposedly during the stay at the
        > Temple where Antoinette lived on one floor and the King lived on another, they
        > did receive good treatment. However, I have read that she did not get good food
        > at the conciergerie at all, and only a few kind souls tried to make life a bit
        > less harsh for her than others.  But my question is can we really believe
        > everything that is told to us by those who kept the records?  For whom did they
        > write the logs and entries?  I do not give the revolutionaries very much credit
        > for wanting their side to look as though they would give the Queen favored
        > treatment.  Am I right or wrong?   Jan
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: alecker23 <alecker23@...>
        > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 4:02:36 PM
        > Subject: Re: Suffering of Marie Antoinette before her execution
        >
        >  
        > Revolutionaries was cruel with all of frenchs during Révolution.The
        > Marie-Antoinette sort,destiny,final months was hard,I agree,but this life end
        > was exploited for reasons politics after Révolution.During his Temple and
        > Conciergerie emprisonment,the queen received medical treatment and good
        > food...During same time,majority in french people lived in starvation.Before his
        > execution,Robespierre(a revolutionary chief)suffered with a bullet in the mouth
        > 24 hours!!!
        >
        > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble
        > <janetcfauble@> wrote:
        > >
        > > The truth that the Queen suffered more during the months before her execution,
        > > especially  with her concern for the wellbeing of her children, demonstrates
        > >the
        > > real cruelty of the Revolutionaries more than the act of killing her with a
        > > sudden drop of the blade.   Jan
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: George Caffine <geocaffine@>
        > > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:09:56 AM
        > > Subject: Re: Showing the people the head of a king and queen
        > >
        > >  
        > > "In France, there would be no more king, no more royalty."???? That is, except
        > > for Napoleon, who demonstrated the unfortunate need people have for glorious
        > > figureheads.
        > >
        > > By the way, the Guillotine, aside from morbid displays, was probably as
        > >painless
        > > as any of the modern methods of state executions.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: axel <Rand103242@>
        > > Subject: Showing the people the head of a king and queen
        > >
        > >  
        > > "Now, breaking the unnatural silence the whole city, the executioner showed
        > the
        > > people the head of the king and now, in it seemed almost in the same breath,
        > >the
        > > head of his fair wife which had had eight weary months of imprisoned widowhood
        > > and misery to turn it gray." (Dickens, 1859, p.302)
        > >
        > >
        > > Patricia points to the showing the people the head of the king and queen for
        > >its
        > > gruesome nature. That's quite true, but at the time it was also part of what I
        > > call the triumphalism of the Revolution. Holding those heads for all to see
        > was
        > > like showing all "we did it" - To prove to all that the Revolution had
        > >succeeded
        > > over the monarchy and aristocracy.
        > >
        > > It was said that "To the crowned heads of Europe" all arrayed against
        > > Revolutionary France, "We throw to your feet the heads of a king and queen".
        > >The
        > > bold revolution took on all of Europe. In France, there would be no more king,
        > > no more royalty.
        > >
        > > Axel
        > >
        >
      • alecker23
        Your message is very interesting.I desire to give a reflexion.The mass of France people was essentially royalist during Révolution time.The parisian people
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 7, 2011
          Your message is very interesting.I desire to give a reflexion.The mass of France people was essentially royalist during Révolution time.The parisian people was anti-royalist not the mass of french people(the mass of french people was composed of peasants).And the Montagnards(the revolutionary party to dominate the Convention,the national assembly)refuse the appel au peuple(people appeal) after the Louis XVI death condamnation by the Convention.Parisian people was excited by revolutionary propaganda and was disturbed by the war against Europe.Soboul(a marxist historian)quote is pertinent.The king and queen image devalorisation was a long story to beginning with Louis XV reign.During this reign the people became politised and the royalty image receiving his first blows,hits.A good book to knowledged this phenomena is the <<Les origines culturelles de la Révolution française>>writing by Roger Chartier.The great romantic historian Jules Michelet estimated that french monarchy died with Louis XV.After this death,the successor Louis XVI try to retablish the royalty credit.Unfortunaly,he's commit many errors(parlements rappel by example)and dilapidated his popularity potential.Louis XVI was a atypical king(do you know the biography titled Louis XVI the silent king writing by Hartman?).He liked his people and make many reforms inspired by esprit des Lumières but he was complexed and castrated by a wrong education.The Louis XVI mentor La Vauguyon was a perfidious man to disdain his pupille.Louis XV do not prepared his grandson for the power exercise also.Louis XVI perceived the necessity to reform monarchy but he was attached with the absolutism concept.This contradiction and the french society blocages(privilèges defense)ruined the king efforts.Ministers Turgot,Necker,Calonne failed to change the regime.The banqueroute(royal finances bankruptcy)giving the coup de grâce. Before the Révolution beginning(1789) Louis XVI had therefore a great credit(the famous cahiers de doléances attest this fact)and Louis XVI delays ruined this initial credit.The Louis XVI incapacity to canalize the Révolution torrent finally destroy his authority.The failure of Varennes escape to give the last blow.It's really a sad story!!!


          Salutations
          --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, ivan lyons <bodger47@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I am often dumb struck by the tunnel vision of some people here, if i had been around in 1793 i would of probably cheered her execution as loudly as the man next to me or to be looking over my shoulder wondering if i was next in the shit at the conciergerie, the french revolution was a violent and bloody affair that cost over 16,000 people their lives, it was not a fairy tale written by some withered old hag with butterflies for brains and the king and queen riding off into the sunset to live happily ever after in cuckoo land, they were victims of circumstance, the decadence of louis 15, the betrayal by the monarchy of the french people by trying to flee the country not once but twice, nothing is ever said of her indulgences, madame veto, the austrian committee, her ignorance in snubbing patriots, descarilisation, the kings denouncing of the revolution, the political struggle between the montagnards/jacobins and the girondists, the appeal to the people, the vote at the convention over the execution of the king (bearing in mind at that time the convention was probably the most democratic in europe), the financial ruin of the country caused by frances funding of the american civil war, salt taxes, the price of basic food stuffs, the black markets, the sacking of the patriots from the government by the king which led to the journee of aug 10 on the then newly fortified tuileries, though the king and queen were already ensconsed in the menage by then. the french revolution was very complex and to try and understand the mechanics of it here would take far too long, anyway there were enough supporters of the monarchy in and around paris and in the country as whole to of started a counter revolution in fact on the day of his execution an attempt to rescue him was made though the attempt was not full on. oh and the brunswick manifesto, that would of incited me to of rioted as well, there was a lot of support for the king a majority of the revolutionary stance came in the major cities, consider toulouse and the english fleet or the burning of lyon. the absolute/constitutional monarch. As a group the members will probably know more than myself about the revolution and should realise that between them they did nothing but accelerate the demise of themselves and the french monarchy and did nothing to prevent it either, so to repeatedly put her on a pedastol like she is a forgotten heroine or that they were hard done by is a farce. i recently visited paris which is a wonderful city and while sat outside a cafe at the comedie francaise sipping a fresh cappucino, absorbing the atmosphere and being really as french as an englishman can be without reaching for a long bow and discharging a quivver of arrows, i came to the conclusion that if the revolution had not occured, paris would not be paris as it is.
          >
          > anyway by way of an answer this is by albert soubol :-
          >
          > I doubt not that the King's death will be described in different ways, as the partisan spirit dictates, and that garbled versions of this great event will appear in the newspapers and be noised abroad in such a manner as to distort the truth. As an eyewitness, who has always been far removed from the prejudice of parties, and who is but too well acquainted with the worthlessness of the aura popularis, I am going to give you a faithful account of what happened. I greatly regret that I was obliged to attend the execution bearing arms with the other citizens of the section and I write to you now with my heart filled with grief and my whole being stunned by the shock of this dreadful experience.
          > Louis, who, fortified by the principles of religion, seemed completely resigned to meet death, left his prison in the Temple about nine in the morning and was taken to the place of execution in the mayor's carriage with his confessor and two gendarmes, the curtains being drawn.
          > When he arrived at his destination he looked at the scaffold without flinching. The executioner at once proceeded to perform the customary rite by cutting off the King's hair which he put in his pocket. Louis then walked up onto the scaffold. The air was filled with the roll of numerous drums, seemingly intended to prevent the people from demanding grace. The drumbeats were hushed for a moment by a gesture from Louis himself, but at a signal from the adjutant of the General of the National Guard, they recommenced with such force that Louis's voice was drowned and it was only possible to catch a few stray words like "I forgive my enemies." At the same time he took a few steps round the fatal plank to which he was drawn by a feeling of horror natural to any man on the brink of death or, maybe, he conceived that the people might appeal for grace, for what man does not cling to hope even in his last moments?
          > The adjutant ordered the executioner to do his duty and in a trice Louis was fastened onto the deadly plank of the machine they call the guillotine and his head was cut off so quickly that he could hardly have suffered. This at least is a merit belonging to the murderous instrument which bears the name of the doctor who invented it. The executioner immediately lifted the head from the sack into which it fell automatically and displayed it to the people.
          > As soon as the execution had taken place, the expression on the faces of many spectators changed and, from having worn an air of somber consternation, they shifted to another mood and fell to crying, "Vive la Nation!" At least one can say this of the cavalry who witnessed the execution and who waved their helmets on the point of their sabers.
          > Some of the citizens followed suit, but a great number withdrew, their spirits racked with pain, to shed tears in the bosom of their families.
          > As decapitation could not be performed without spilling blood on the scaffold many persons hurried to the spot to dip the end of their handkerchief or a piece of paper in it, to have a reminder of this memorable event, for one need not have recourse to odious interpretations of such actions
          >
          >
          >
          > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
          > From: Rand103242@...
          > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:37:52 +0000
          > Subject: They cheered death of king and queen - Why?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Why did the people cheer the deaths of King Louis and Queen Marie Antoinette?
          >
          > It could be the propoganda of the time that had worked the people into such a frenzy of hatred for king and queen.
          >
          > Axel
          >
          > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia" <MadameAntoine@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Re: Death of Louis XVI ... and Widow Capet
          > >
          > > When I read over both Louis XVI and Antoinette's execution, I am always struck by how cruel and gruesome we human beings can be in
          > > the cheering on of the death of another human being and holding up
          > > the severed head and also how they carelessly threw Antoinette's
          > > severed head between her body after she was guillotined.
          > >
          > > As we have observed the happenings of Egypt and the relatively peaceful revolution of the Egyption people and its success we
          > > can see the major differences of a peaceful revolution and a violent
          > > one. Of course this is a different time period but today, with what
          > > has happened regarding Mubarek and the Egyption people...it has been inspiring to see what they've accomplished peacefully, rather than the violence and mayhem of the French Revolution.
          > >
          > > We can be most thankful that the guillotine resides as a part of
          > > history and not of our time. Would France be the country that it is
          > > today had Louis XVI and Antoinette not "paid the price" with their
          > > heads? Was it really necessary, because of that period of time that the Revolution be so violent? Just musing.
          > >
          > > regards,
          > > Patricia
          > >
          > > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "axel" <Rand103242@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Today marks the anniversary, January 21, 1793, when Louis XVI was executed and Marie Antoinette lost her husband and became the Widow Capet.
          > > >
          > > > In January 1793, after trial by the National Convention, the former King of France, Louis XVI was found guilty and sentenced to death. On this date, January 21, Louis was driven by closed coach to the Place de Revolution in Paris where he mounted the stairs to the scaffold. He said to the hushed crowd "I die Innocent..." Then, his final words drowned out by the drum roll. Louis was then beheaded by the blade of the guillotine. His bloody head then shown to the cheering crowd.
          > > >
          > > > Louis was just 38 years old, his wife, Marie Antoinette 37. They had been married 22 years when he was taken from her.
          > > >
          > > > The former Queen in her grief now faced widowhood with her remaining
          > > > family, her young son, her daughter and sister in law. The former royal family remainded under close confinement in the grim Temple prison. There Marie Antoinette would await her own fate.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Axel
          > > >
          > >
          >
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