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Re: MA en Gaulle: Weighing effects on Queen's public image

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  • ethereal04
    Hi Janet, I don t think Antoinette was still naive in 1780 s. Self assured and arrogant in the best sense of the word as to her importance in the scheme of
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 4 1:49 AM
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      Hi Janet,
      I don't think Antoinette was still naive in 1780's. Self assured and arrogant in the best sense of the word as to her importance in the scheme of things, yes. But she had been garnering criticism from all sources about her habits at Petit Trianon. Not just her enemies, even the English ambassodor had negative things to say.

      This painting was the symbol of that "milkmaid" private life everyone was criticising hence displaying it to the public would bring only criticism. An astute queen would have had the painting done but kept it displayed in private and to her admirers. She shows very poor judgement for one of such lofty status in displaying this painting to a mostly hostile public.

      Either she was stupid enough to think it would get praise. Or she was so arrogant as to throw this symbol of her (censured)private life in her critics faces. As if to say, there, this is me and lump it!

      However, I do agree that it is wonderful for us today to have this picture to look at.
      Ethereal


      In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Ethereal,
      > I do not believe it to have been stupid to have shown the painting in a white muslim gown but possibly a bit naive.  She probably had not realized fully the amount of real vituperativeness that that particular painting would garner.  The truth is that she could do nothing to please her critics who were out to get her from the start, so why worry about it?  She  liked herself in that style and it shows so posterity wins regardless.   Jan
      >
      > --- On Sat, 6/13/09, ethereal04 <ghs18@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: ethereal04 <ghs18@...>
      > Subject: Re: The Beauty Of the Queen... and Its Peril for Her
      > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 5:16 PM
      >
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      > One has to wonder whether Antoinette perhaps deserves the epithet "monumentally stupid" as one writer commented.
      >
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      > Whilst I do not accept the image of Marie Antoinette that has come down to us in history, quite the opposite in fact: I have great sympathy for her. But there are things she did that are very stupid no matter what vantage point one takes. Even her ardent admirers have been perplexed by some of her ill advised actions.
      >
      >
      >
      > One of them, as you say Axel, is putting the en Gaulle painting up for public scrutiny. Was this a decision taken by the queen and Vigee le Brun or was Louis and any minister involved in the decision? Did they perhaps think they were countermanding the image the public had of Antoinette as an overdressed spendthrift with this image of an unassuming milkmaid? With the precept that flows on from that image that the queen was an innocent country-girl with nothing on her mind but flowers and pastures? Instead of the politically scheming, voracious harpy the public thought she was?
      >
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      > Ethereal
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, "Axel" <Rand103242@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Marie Antoinette did like the natural look. Dressed en Gaulle, in the simple muslin dress without hoops and paniers of court, her hair natural without powder, she looked so beautiful. Just as her painter, Elizabeth Vigee Lebrun intended, and her model Marie Antoinette well agreed.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I agree, Donna, on Antoinette's beauty as then posed and though this look was the cutting edge of fashion, she was indeed ahead of her time. That look en Gaulle forsaw the empire fashion that followed 15-20 years later.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Marie Antoinette admired her own beauty and it's said she wanted to be the most beautiful and most fashionable woman in France even more so than its Queen.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > But alas Marie Antoinette was not just a beautiful woman. She was Queen. As Queen, she needed to take into account public opinion and the public views of her.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > It was one thing to dress en Gaulle in private and even to pose for a painting en Gaulle for private use. For me, the big mistake was allowing this painting to be displayed at the salon for all the public to see... to view ... and to comment upon. With presentation at the Salon, the Queen in effect said to her public, here is a representation of your Queen for all to admire.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > But that presentation carried with it a great risk to the Queen... that the public would not admire her as thus displayed... would in fact ridicule her and hold this painting up as a representation of all her tormenters found objectionable in their Queen.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > There was already talk and rumors of the Queen leading a frivolous, scandalous life in her private retreat of Petit Trianon. And voila! Here she appears wihout any trappings of monarchy ... "the Queen dressed as a peasant" ... "the Queen shown in her underwear".. . "how decadent!".. . "how unseemly!".. . "perhaps it's true all the rumors of the Austrian woman taking lovers at her Trianon hideaway!"
      >
      > >
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      > > With the painting and public display of the Queen en Gaulle, Marie Antoinette unintentionally fed just such stories among those who sought her demise.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Axel
      >
      > >
      >
      > > --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, "Donna Erskine" <derskine@> wrote:
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > Hello,
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > The Queen, liked the natural look. Her true beauty shone forth, as the artist Louise Vigee LeBrun, intended.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > The people of the era didn't like it. But the natural feminine look, was not accepted at this time.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > The Queen, and her Artist, were ahead of their time....
      >
      > > > Donna
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
    • madame_antoine
      I don t believe arrogant is a fair term to use regarding Antoinette. Arrogant is a word that her despisers would have used towards her. Antoinette was both
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 4 4:29 PM
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        I don't believe arrogant is a fair term to use regarding Antoinette.
        Arrogant is a word that her despisers would have used towards her.
        Antoinette was both confident and self-assured by the 1780's. She felt no need to "hide" who she was. I salute her in that. Her detractors had made things very nasty for her specifically to bring
        her down. Antoinette was NOT arrogant in any sense of the word
        nor would she ever be considered stupid. How do I know these things?
        Well, let's just say I've got "inside" sources.



        --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "ethereal04" <ghs18@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Janet,
        > I don't think Antoinette was still naive in 1780's. Self assured and arrogant in the best sense of the word as to her importance in the scheme of things, yes. But she had been garnering criticism from all sources about her habits at Petit Trianon. Not just her enemies, even the English ambassodor had negative things to say.
        >
        > This painting was the symbol of that "milkmaid" private life everyone was criticising hence displaying it to the public would bring only criticism. An astute queen would have had the painting done but kept it displayed in private and to her admirers. She shows very poor judgement for one of such lofty status in displaying this painting to a mostly hostile public.
        >
        > Either she was stupid enough to think it would get praise. Or she was so arrogant as to throw this symbol of her (censured)private life in her critics faces. As if to say, there, this is me and lump it!
        >
        > However, I do agree that it is wonderful for us today to have this picture to look at.
        > Ethereal
        >
        >
        > In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Ethereal,
        > > I do not believe it to have been stupid to have shown the painting in a white muslim gown but possibly a bit naive.  She probably had not realized fully the amount of real vituperativeness that that particular painting would garner.  The truth is that she could do nothing to please her critics who were out to get her from the start, so why worry about it?  She  liked herself in that style and it shows so posterity wins regardless.   Jan
        > >
        > > --- On Sat, 6/13/09, ethereal04 <ghs18@> wrote:
        > >
        > > From: ethereal04 <ghs18@>
        > > Subject: Re: The Beauty Of the Queen... and Its Peril for Her
        > > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 5:16 PM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > One has to wonder whether Antoinette perhaps deserves the epithet "monumentally stupid" as one writer commented.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Whilst I do not accept the image of Marie Antoinette that has come down to us in history, quite the opposite in fact: I have great sympathy for her. But there are things she did that are very stupid no matter what vantage point one takes. Even her ardent admirers have been perplexed by some of her ill advised actions.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > One of them, as you say Axel, is putting the en Gaulle painting up for public scrutiny. Was this a decision taken by the queen and Vigee le Brun or was Louis and any minister involved in the decision? Did they perhaps think they were countermanding the image the public had of Antoinette as an overdressed spendthrift with this image of an unassuming milkmaid? With the precept that flows on from that image that the queen was an innocent country-girl with nothing on her mind but flowers and pastures? Instead of the politically scheming, voracious harpy the public thought she was?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Ethereal
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, "Axel" <Rand103242@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Marie Antoinette did like the natural look. Dressed en Gaulle, in the simple muslin dress without hoops and paniers of court, her hair natural without powder, she looked so beautiful. Just as her painter, Elizabeth Vigee Lebrun intended, and her model Marie Antoinette well agreed.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > I agree, Donna, on Antoinette's beauty as then posed and though this look was the cutting edge of fashion, she was indeed ahead of her time. That look en Gaulle forsaw the empire fashion that followed 15-20 years later.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Marie Antoinette admired her own beauty and it's said she wanted to be the most beautiful and most fashionable woman in France even more so than its Queen.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > But alas Marie Antoinette was not just a beautiful woman. She was Queen. As Queen, she needed to take into account public opinion and the public views of her.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > It was one thing to dress en Gaulle in private and even to pose for a painting en Gaulle for private use. For me, the big mistake was allowing this painting to be displayed at the salon for all the public to see... to view ... and to comment upon. With presentation at the Salon, the Queen in effect said to her public, here is a representation of your Queen for all to admire.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > But that presentation carried with it a great risk to the Queen... that the public would not admire her as thus displayed... would in fact ridicule her and hold this painting up as a representation of all her tormenters found objectionable in their Queen.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > There was already talk and rumors of the Queen leading a frivolous, scandalous life in her private retreat of Petit Trianon. And voila! Here she appears wihout any trappings of monarchy ... "the Queen dressed as a peasant" ... "the Queen shown in her underwear".. . "how decadent!".. . "how unseemly!".. . "perhaps it's true all the rumors of the Austrian woman taking lovers at her Trianon hideaway!"
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > With the painting and public display of the Queen en Gaulle, Marie Antoinette unintentionally fed just such stories among those who sought her demise.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Axel
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, "Donna Erskine" <derskine@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > > > > Hello,
        > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > > > > The Queen, liked the natural look. Her true beauty shone forth, as the artist Louise Vigee LeBrun, intended.
        > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > > > > The people of the era didn't like it. But the natural feminine look, was not accepted at this time.
        > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > > > > The Queen, and her Artist, were ahead of their time....
        > >
        > > > > Donna
        > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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