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Re: Rose Bertin

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  • janet fauble
    Hi Timm,   You are making me laugh so hard now...blaming the Americans for King George  going insane is like blaming the Beatles for all the lonely
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 31, 2009
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      Hi Timm,
       
      You are making me laugh so hard now...blaming the Americans for King George  going insane is like blaming the Beatles for all the lonely people...where do they all come from?  Pulease!  With or without the revolution, George was already insane!   Jan  Talking to oak trees?

      --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Tim <timm_collins2002@...> wrote:
      From: Tim <timm_collins2002@...>
      Subject: Rose Bertin
      To: "IMAGES OF MARIE ANTOINETTE" <Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:42 AM






      .




      .
       Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of  couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
        She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette.. ..  soon to become  Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
       Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and  died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died  in France.

        The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and therefore  the world.
         England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and  Marie  Antoinette.. .  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and   Princess Caroline of Brunswick.

       Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry  Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
      glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
       In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping  with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at parties and soires.
           In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King George had become totally insane.
      ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break from  England sent him over the edge. )

           World events began to speed up during  Prince William's  Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of  Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
       
      Tim
      Yahoo E Mail
      Scanned  by  Norton
       


    • jimmy
      re: ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break from England sent him over the edge. ) Oh, like an entire people should live under
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 1, 2009
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        re: ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break from  England sent him over the edge. )

        Oh, like an entire people should live under oppression just so one autocratic ruler doesn't go insane at the loss of one of his imperial territories. Yeah, right. LOL!

        I think he probably went insane due to physiological conditions and not the reason you propose.

        Jimmy O.


        From: janet fauble <janetcfauble@...>
        To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 12:03:32 AM
        Subject: Re: Rose Bertin

        Hi Timm,
         
        You are making me laugh so hard now...blaming the Americans for King George  going insane is like blaming the Beatles for all the lonely people...where do they all come from?  Pulease!  With or without the revolution, George was already insane!   Jan  Talking to oak trees?

        --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Tim <timm_collins2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        From: Tim <timm_collins2002@ yahoo.com>
        Subject: Rose Bertin
        To: "IMAGES OF MARIE ANTOINETTE" <Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com>
        Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:42 AM






        .




        .
         Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of  couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
          She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette.. ..  soon to become  Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
         Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and  died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died  in France.

          The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and therefore  the world.
           England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and  Marie  Antoinette.. .  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and   Princess Caroline of Brunswick.

         Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry  Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
        glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
         In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping  with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at parties and soires.
             In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King George had become totally insane.
        ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break from  England sent him over the edge. )

             World events began to speed up during  Prince William's  Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of  Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
         
        Tim
        Yahoo E Mail
        Scanned  by  Norton
         


      • madame_antoine
        I am sure Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and a smart one who used her ties with the queen to her best advantage. Nothing wrong with that. She did help
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 1, 2009
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          I am sure Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and a smart
          one who used her ties with the queen to her best advantage.
          Nothing wrong with that. She did help Queen Marie Antoinette
          develop her own unique styles as well which had a big impact
          on all of Europe as well, so one could say...they helped each
          other out.

          America's desire for independence from England cannot be
          blamed for King George's insuing insanity. The seeds of
          insanity were already well planted within his brain long
          before America pushed for that independence. Independence
          from Britain was long overdue and he had to know that it
          was inevitable, insane or not.

          kind regards,
          Patricia
          --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, Tim
          <timm_collins2002@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > .
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > .
          >  Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and
          that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of 
          couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
          >   She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette....  soon to become 
          Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
          >  Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and 
          died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died 
          in France.
          >
          >   The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the
          monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its
          brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and
          therefore  the world.
          >    England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and 
          Marie  Antoinette...  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and  
          Princess Caroline of Brunswick.
          >
          >  Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry 
          Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
          > glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
          >  In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping 
          with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at
          parties and soires.
          >      In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King
          George had become totally insane.
          > ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break
          from  England sent him over the edge. )
          >
          >      World events began to speed up during  Prince William's 
          Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of 
          Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
          >   Tim Yahoo E Mail Scanned  by  Norton  
          >
        • jimmy
          Patricia, THANK YOU for that statement on the King s insanity. Jimmy O. ________________________________ From: madame_antoine To:
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 1, 2009
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            Patricia,

            THANK YOU for that statement on the King's insanity.

            Jimmy O.


            From: madame_antoine <MadameAntoine@...>
            To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 4:00:46 PM
            Subject: Re: Rose Bertin


            I am sure Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and a smart
            one who used her ties with the queen to her best advantage.
            Nothing wrong with that. She did help Queen Marie Antoinette
            develop her own unique styles as well which had a big impact
            on all of Europe as well, so one could say...they helped each
            other out.

            America's desire for independence from England cannot be
            blamed for King George's insuing insanity. The seeds of
            insanity were already well planted within his brain long
            before America pushed for that independence. Independence
            from Britain was long overdue and he had to know that it
            was inevitable, insane or not.

            kind regards,
            Patricia
            --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, Tim
            <timm_collins2002@ ...> wrote:

            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > .
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > .
            >  Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and
            that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of 
            couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
            >   She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette.. ..  soon to become 
            Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
            >  Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and 
            died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died 
            in France.
            >
            >   The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the
            monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its
            brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and
            therefore  the world.
            >    England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and 
            Marie  Antoinette.. .  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and  
            Princess Caroline of Brunswick.
            >
            >  Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry 
            Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
            > glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
            >  In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping 
            with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at
            parties and soires.
            >      In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King
            George had become totally insane.
            > ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break
            from  England sent him over the edge. )
            >
            >      World events began to speed up during  Prince William's 
            Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of 
            Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
            >   Tim Yahoo E Mail Scanned  by  Norton  
            >

          • janet fauble
            Hi Patricia,   I have been laughing at your go girl comment on queen antoinette s rebellion, and now I have to say the same to you,  you go girl!  Good for
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 1, 2009
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              Hi Patricia,   I have been laughing at your go girl comment on queen antoinette's rebellion, and now I have to say the same to you,  you go girl!  Good for you!  Jan   still chuckling!

              --- On Sun, 2/1/09, madame_antoine <MadameAntoine@...> wrote:
              From: madame_antoine <MadameAntoine@...>
              Subject: Re: Rose Bertin
              To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 2:00 PM


              I am sure Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and a smart
              one who used her ties with the queen to her best advantage.
              Nothing wrong with that. She did help Queen Marie Antoinette
              develop her own unique styles as well which had a big impact
              on all of Europe as well, so one could say...they helped each
              other out.

              America's desire for independence from England cannot be
              blamed for King George's insuing insanity. The seeds of
              insanity were already well planted within his brain long
              before America pushed for that independence. Independence
              from Britain was long overdue and he had to know that it
              was inevitable, insane or not.

              kind regards,
              Patricia
              --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, Tim
              <timm_collins2002@ ...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > .
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > .
              >  Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and
              that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of 
              couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
              >   She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette.. ..  soon to become 
              Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
              >  Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and 
              died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died 
              in France.
              >
              >   The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the
              monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its
              brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and
              therefore  the world.
              >    England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and 
              Marie  Antoinette.. .  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and  
              Princess Caroline of Brunswick.
              >
              >  Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry 
              Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
              > glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
              >  In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping 
              with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at
              parties and soires.
              >      In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King
              George had become totally insane.
              > ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break
              from  England sent him over the edge. )
              >
              >      World events began to speed up during  Prince William's 
              Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of 
              Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
              >   Tim Yahoo E Mail Scanned  by  Norton  
              >


            • doritmi
              Dear Tim, I understand your admiration of Rose Bertin, but I want to highlight that French influence on fashion and culture predated Bertin - and Marie
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
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                Dear Tim,
                I understand your admiration of Rose Bertin, but I want to highlight
                that French influence on fashion and culture predated Bertin - and
                Marie Antoinette. French cultures and fashions were certainly
                dominant when MA left for Paris, but it went much earlier. For
                several centuries France was the center of culture and fashion.
                Bertin's role in that was marginal, at best, and I want to remind
                you, also, that at the time in question, French fashion was often
                imitating english fashions.


                --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, Tim
                <timm_collins2002@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > .
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > .
                >  Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and
                that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of 
                couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
                >   She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette....  soon to become 
                Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
                >  Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and 
                died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died 
                in France.
                >
                >   The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the
                monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its
                brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and
                therefore  the world.
                >    England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and 
                Marie  Antoinette...  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and  
                Princess Caroline of Brunswick.
                >
                >  Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry 
                Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
                > glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
                >  In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping 
                with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at
                parties and soires.
                >      In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King
                George had become totally insane.
                > ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break
                from  England sent him over the edge. )
                >
                >      World events began to speed up during  Prince William's 
                Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of 
                Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
                >   Tim Yahoo E Mail Scanned  by  Norton  
                >
              • doritmi
                you re right - nothing wrong with Rose Bertin taking advantage of her position and milking it for what it was worth; it was the norm. But Marie Antoinette s
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
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                  you're right - nothing wrong with Rose Bertin taking advantage of her
                  position and milking it for what it was worth; it was the norm. But
                  Marie Antoinette's acceptance of Bertin was an issue, not because of
                  the expense but because it was another example used by her enemies for
                  her disdaining the existing class system - which helped alienate the
                  nobility from her and left her with less alies during the revolution.
                  Not smart political move.


                  --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "madame_antoine"
                  <MadameAntoine@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I am sure Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and a smart
                  > one who used her ties with the queen to her best advantage.
                  > Nothing wrong with that. She did help Queen Marie Antoinette
                  > develop her own unique styles as well which had a big impact
                  > on all of Europe as well, so one could say...they helped each
                  > other out.
                  >
                  >
                • madame_antoine
                  I really think that Queen Marie Antoinette s enemies would have found some reason to disapprove of her no matter what she did. It was in the plans before she
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I really think that Queen Marie Antoinette's enemies would
                    have found some reason to disapprove of her no matter what
                    she did. It was in the plans before she ever arrived at
                    Versailles. There is no way she could have made them all
                    happy. If someone has made their mind up to dislike you,
                    and find fault with everything you do, there is no way
                    you can influence them in the other direction because their
                    mind is closed to any good you might do.

                    kind regards,
                    Patricia

                    --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "doritmi"
                    <drub@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > you're right - nothing wrong with Rose Bertin taking advantage of
                    her
                    > position and milking it for what it was worth; it was the norm. But
                    > Marie Antoinette's acceptance of Bertin was an issue, not because
                    of
                    > the expense but because it was another example used by her enemies
                    for
                    > her disdaining the existing class system - which helped alienate
                    the
                    > nobility from her and left her with less alies during the
                    revolution.
                    > Not smart political move.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "madame_antoine"
                    > <MadameAntoine@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I am sure Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and a smart
                    > > one who used her ties with the queen to her best advantage.
                    > > Nothing wrong with that. She did help Queen Marie Antoinette
                    > > develop her own unique styles as well which had a big impact
                    > > on all of Europe as well, so one could say...they helped each
                    > > other out.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Tim
                              I think  Rose Bertin is more important than you think and she played a very big part in establishing Paris as the centre of fashion... I
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                                I think  Rose Bertin is more important than you think and she played
                      a very big part in establishing Paris as the centre of fashion...
                      I read somewhere that she is the founder of  ' Haute Couture ' that very specialized high fashion  in which  France is still the unchallenged leader.
                        Interestingly it was  the Princess de Lamballe  who introduced  Rose to
                      Marie Antoinette... not long after  Marie  had married   Prince Louis.  (May 1770 )
                        Rose  began to design and make dresses for the young Dauphine visiting her twice a week  to show her designs and fabrics  and take her measurements.... and yes Patricia.. give her fittings for corsets !
                      .........a vital part of a Royal Ladies dress.

                        Rose must have been a dynamic  lady... designing dresses that were to become fashion icons for the ladies of Paris.... running her shop... employing ladies to make the dresses...
                          Almost inevitably Rose became the Dauphine's close friend and confident and  was soon  an important personage at the court of  Versailles.
                       Rose must have had a unique view of the French court during those years
                      and must have been aware of all Marie's  trials and tribulations.. especially later  in the  1780s....  as the clouds began to gather.

                         Incredibly Marie was still ordering dresses from Rose whilst in prison in the  early  1790s .... though on a more modest and sober scale.
                       Eventually Rose fled to London and set up shop there.    In   due  course  she returned to Paris and  for a time  she was designing  dresses for  Josephine   Beauharnais .
                       
                         Pity she did nt write some  memoirs of those heady days in the 1770s when the  Dauphine  was .... Belle of the Ball ... her life  a dizzy social whirl  ....  such memoirs  would make fascinating reading.
                      Tim


                      Dear Tim,
                      I understand your admiration of Rose Bertin, but I want to highlight
                      that French influence on fashion and culture predated Bertin - and
                      Marie Antoinette. French cultures and fashions were certainly
                      dominant when MA left for Paris, but it went much earlier. For
                      several centuries France was the center of culture and fashion.
                      Bertin's role in that was marginal, at best, and I want to remind
                      you, also, that at the time in question, French fashion was often
                      imitating english fashions.

                      --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, Tim
                      <timm_collins2002@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > .
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > .
                      >  Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and
                      that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of 
                      couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
                      >   She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette.. ..  soon to become 
                      Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
                      >  Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and 
                      died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died 
                      in France.
                      >
                      >   The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the
                      monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its
                      brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and
                      therefore  the world.
                      >    England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and 
                      Marie  Antoinette.. .  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and  
                      Princess Caroline of Brunswick.
                      >
                      >  Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry 
                      Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
                      > glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
                      >  In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping 
                      with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at
                      parties and soires.
                      >      In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King
                      George had become totally insane.
                      > ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break
                      from  England sent him over the edge. )
                      >
                      >      World events began to speed up during  Prince William's 
                      Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of 
                      Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
                      >   Tim Yahoo E Mail Scanned  by  Norton  
                      >


                    • Tara
                      I wish Rose Bertin would haven t written her memoirs. Imagine the stories that we could have read. Tara ... From: Tim Subject: Re:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 4, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I wish Rose Bertin would haven't written her memoirs. Imagine the stories that we could have read.

                        Tara

                        --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Tim <timm_collins2002@...> wrote:
                        From: Tim <timm_collins2002@...>
                        Subject: Re: Rose Bertin
                        To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:40 PM

                                  I think  Rose Bertin is more important than you think and she played
                        a very big part in establishing Paris as the centre of fashion...
                        I read somewhere that she is the founder of  ' Haute Couture ' that very specialized high fashion  in which  France is still the unchallenged leader.
                          Interestingly it was  the Princess de Lamballe  who introduced  Rose to
                        Marie Antoinette... not long after  Marie  had married   Prince Louis.  (May 1770 )
                          Rose  began to design and make dresses for the young Dauphine visiting her twice a week  to show her designs and fabrics  and take her measurements.... and yes Patricia.. give her fittings for corsets !
                        .........a vital part of a Royal Ladies dress.

                          Rose must have been a dynamic  lady... designing dresses that were to become fashion icons for the ladies of Paris.... running her shop... employing ladies to make the dresses...
                            Almost inevitably Rose became the Dauphine's close friend and confident and  was soon  an important personage at the court of  Versailles.
                         Rose must have had a unique view of the French court during those years
                        and must have been aware of all Marie's  trials and tribulations.. especially later  in the  1780s....  as the clouds began to gather.

                           Incredibly Marie was still ordering dresses from Rose whilst in prison in the  early  1790s .... though on a more modest and sober scale.
                         Eventually Rose fled to London and set up shop there.    In   due  course  she returned to Paris and  for a time  she was designing  dresses for  Josephine   Beauharnais .
                         
                           Pity she did nt write some  memoirs of those heady days in the 1770s when the  Dauphine  was .... Belle of the Ball ... her life  a dizzy social whirl  ....  such memoirs  would make fascinating reading.
                        Tim


                        Dear Tim,
                        I understand your admiration of Rose Bertin, but I want to highlight
                        that French influence on fashion and culture predated Bertin - and
                        Marie Antoinette. French cultures and fashions were certainly
                        dominant when MA left for Paris, but it went much earlier. For
                        several centuries France was the center of culture and fashion.
                        Bertin's role in that was marginal, at best, and I want to remind
                        you, also, that at the time in question, French fashion was often
                        imitating english fashions.

                        --- In Images_of_Marie_ Antoinette@ yahoogroups. com, Tim
                        <timm_collins2002@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > .
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > .
                        >  Can't  help thinking that Rose Bertin was a fascinating lady and
                        that she  virtually  founded  Paris as the  world  capital  of 
                        couture fashion  a position it still holds   to the present day.
                        >   She was the couturier  to  Marie  Antoinette.. ..  soon to become 
                        Queen of  France and the most glamorous Royal in all of  Europe. 
                        >  Ive  read that she fled to England  during the revolution and 
                        died there.... other accounts say she returned to France and  died 
                        in France.
                        >
                        >   The French Monarchy  and  Versailles   were the model for all the
                        monarchies of  Europe... they set the fashion..  France and its
                        brilliant artists and  craftsmen  were simply the best in Europe and
                        therefore  the world.
                        >    England's version of  the romantic story of  Prince  Louis and 
                        Marie  Antoinette.. .  was   the  story of  Prince  William  and  
                        Princess Caroline of Brunswick.
                        >
                        >  Princess Caroline  travelled over from Germany in  1795 to marry 
                        Prince William... but  Caroline was far from
                        > glamorous,  she was overweight  and  gross.
                        >  In later life she proved herself to be totally immoral, sleeping 
                        with any man who came in range  and  even exposing her breasts at
                        parties and soires.
                        >      In  1811  Prince William became Regent  as his father  King
                        George had become totally insane.
                        > ( I blame the Americans for this , as their rebellion and break
                        from  England sent him over the edge. )
                        >
                        >      World events began to speed up during  Prince William's 
                        Regency  with  The Battle of  Waterloo in  1815  the exile of 
                        Napoleon on Elba  and the beginning of a   New World  Order
                        >   Tim Yahoo E Mail Scanned  by  Norton  
                        >



                      • Tim
                          . .    Rose  Bertin...        Of course there were dresses made for Royals before Rose Bertin came along... of course Paris was a centre of
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 4, 2009
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                          .



                          .


                          bertin.jpg picture by lovegodlover
                             Rose  Bertin...

                                 Of course there were dresses made for Royals
                          before Rose Bertin came along... of course Paris was a centre of fashion... but  Rose with her flamboyance and enthusiasm   popularised the high fashion of Royalty
                          and brought   haute couture to the masses.
                          It was all on a scale never seen before.
                            Marie Antoinette was a superstar back then  Rose was designing exotic... over the top costumes and using the Dauphine as her fashion doll.
                             The banquets the balls....  Marie's expensive ball gowns..her amazing hair creations... each one more flamboyant than the last....all  this titilated  the French and their love of frivolity and  joi de vivre !
                              There was an unreality and  an  extravagence at the  Royal Court ....their banquetting and hedonistic lifestyle   was excessive  and in stark contrast to the  grinding poverty of the  peasants and the harsh life and conditions  of the  working masses of Paris.

                               Marie was feeling neglected and her marriage was unconsumated by her feckless Royal  husband so she overindulged in pleasure with  her  pleasure loving friends including Gabrielle Polignac and the  wicked  Comte d'Artois.... her brother in law.

                            Rose Bertin encouraged Marie in her love of fashion and pleasure.....  Marie became  a fashion icon  to the ladies of Paris admired in endless paintings and her image circulating in thousands of prints.

                          Rose also designed those elaborate hair creations.. along with Leonard .... Marie's  hairdresser.

                           Something special was happening during this extravagent period of history and it could only happen in  pleasure loving  France... England was quite mundane and work a day  by comparison... there was no Marie Antoinette at England's Royal Court...
                           London  had no   equivalent of the Palace of  Versailles come to think of it... it  just had the corpulent King George 3rd  and his family.
                          living a quiet life over at Kew.

                                Meanwhile in Paris... Rose was   dressing  half life size figures for  in the latest  French fashions.... for  Marie  Antoinette  to be sent to her mother Queen Marie  Therese  and   Marie's  sisters

                          quote...
                             Rose Bertin's  creations  established France as the center of the fashion industry, and from then on, dresses made in Paris were sent to London, Venice, Vienna, St. Petersburg and Constantinople.
                           The inimitable Parisian elegance  and style established the worldwide reputation of French couture.  end quote

                          Tim


                          But Paris was the center of fashion before she ever lived. That's why the
                          court in Vienna
                          spoke french when MA was growing up; other courts wore french fashion in the
                          days of
                          Louis XIV, and Anne Boleyn, for example, in the 1520s-1530s brought the French
                          fashion
                          into England. There are earlier examples of French fashion in the rest of
                          Europe. Rose
                          Bertin was a very important person to the spoiled, pampered ladies of Marie
                          Antoinette's
                          court and to MA herself; but she was not the first french couturier, at least
                          not the first
                          serving the nobility; how do you think the glamourous clothes of previous
                          reigns were
                          made?

                          As to inside information - I"m sure she could provide it, pity she
                          didn't write it (though
                          issues of credibility would rise).



                          --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, Tim
                          <timm_collins2002@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >           I think  Rose Bertin is more important than you think
                          and she played
                          > a very big part in establishing Paris as the centre of fashion...
                          > I read somewhere that she is the founder of  ' Haute Couture '
                          that very specialized high
                          fashion  in which  France is still the unchallenged leader.
                          >   Interestingly it was  the Princess de Lamballe  who introduced  Rose
                          to
                          > Marie Antoinette... not long after  Marie  had married   Prince
                          Louis.  (May 1770 )
                          >   Rose  began to design and make dresses for the young Dauphine visiting
                          her twice a
                          week  to show her designs and fabrics  and take her measurements.... and yes
                          Patricia..
                          give her fittings for corsets !
                          > .........a vital part of a Royal Ladies dress.
                          >
                          >   Rose must have been a dynamic  lady... designing dresses that were to
                          become fashion
                          icons for the ladies of Paris.... running her shop... employing ladies to make
                          the dresses...
                          >     Almost inevitably Rose became the Dauphine's close friend and
                          confident and  was
                          soon  an important personage at the court of  Versailles.
                          >  Rose must have had a unique view of the French court during those years
                          > and must have been aware of all Marie's  trials and tribulations..
                          especially later  in the 
                          1780s....  as the clouds began to gather.
                          >
                          >    Incredibly Marie was still ordering dresses from Rose whilst in
                          prison in the  early 
                          1790s .... though on a more modest and sober scale.
                          >  Eventually Rose fled to London and set up shop there.    In   due 
                          course  she returned to
                          Paris and  for a time  she was designing  dresses for  Josephine  
                          Beauharnais .
                          >  
                          >    Pity she did nt write some  memoirs of those heady days in the 1770s
                          when the 
                          Dauphine  was .... Belle of the Ball ... her life  a dizzy social whirl 
                          ....  such memoirs  would
                          make fascinating reading.
                          > Tim
                          >
                          >



                        • Tim
                          Just a taste of the Rose Bertin book I found on the web, Looks like she was introduced to MA  in  1772 I ll put  the whole book  into an open office file
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                            Just a taste of the Rose Bertin book I found
                            on the web,
                            Looks like she was introduced to MA  in  1772
                            I ll put  the whole book  into an 'open office' file
                            eventually and send  via   rapid share
                            Meanwhile.... read on.....
                             
                            (1770-1774)

                            The reign of Marie- Antoinette was one of futility and
                            chiffon ; and if the Queen did not create the office of a
                            Minister of Fashion, the Court of Versailles was never-
                            theless always crowded with hairdressers, dressmakers,
                            and milliners, who exercised more influence than the
                            King's Councillors. Rose Bertin was one of their
                            number. Her real name was Marie- Jeanne Bertin,
                            and thus she figures in all biographical dictionaries.
                            She was born at Amiens in 1744, but recent researches,
                            made in the archives of Abbeville, have fixed July 2,
                            1747, as the exact date of her birth. This is con-
                            firmed by an extract from her birth certificate inserted
                            in the register of the parish of St. Gilles, and signed
                            by the curate, Falconnier. Her parents were people
                            of very small means, and the earnings of the father
                            did not suffice to educate the two children, Marie-
                            Jeanne and her brother, Jean-Laurent, two years
                            younger than herself.
                            To augment the budget of the
                            family, the mother was obliged to exercise the pro-
                            fession of sick-nurse. Marie- Jeanne had thus received
                            a very modest education, but sufficient to develop her
                            sense of ambition. Nature had been kind to her ; she
                            was beautiful, and she knew it — women are never
                            unconscious of such things, and are always ready to
                            profit by it — but Marie- Jeanne was also endowed with
                            a great deal of intelligence, which enabled her to make
                            her way in life.

                            She had faith in her star. One day a gipsy foretold
                            her future. Rose was only a child when the gipsy
                            was arrested and imprisoned. The cronies of the
                            neighbourhood, talkative and superstitious, told won-
                            derful things of the prisoner who had read the future
                            in the palms of their hands. The child became
                            curious, and longed to know what lay in store for her.
                            But she had no money to pay the old woman for her
                            prophecies, and neither father nor mother Bertin would
                            ever consent to spend a trifle on such childish whims.
                            Rose therefore starved herself, and carried her portion
                            of food to the prisoner.

                            Prisons in those days were
                            not what they are now, and the girl easily obtained
                            access to the imprisoned gipsy, who, in exchange for
                            a succulent dish, consented to lift the mysterious veil
                            of the future. Taking the white hand of the child
                            between her own long, dirty lingers, she said senten-
                            tiously : " You will rise to great fortune, and will
                            one day wear a Court dress." Rose left the prison,
                            her face beaming with joy.

                            But Nicholas Bertin,her father, who was seventy-two
                            years old, died on January 24, 1754, leaving the burden
                            of the family and the upbringing of the children to
                            his widow. Rose loved her mother, and she was
                            not a girl to allow the latter to work too much when
                            she was in a position to come to her assistance. She
                            was sixteen now, and one day she made up her mind
                            to leave home, and mounted the coach which took her
                            to Paris. Little did her people, who were sadly
                            watching her departure, think that Rose was going
                            to meet her fortune.

                            Rose Bertin was not awkward ; they soon perceived
                            it in the millinery shop kept by Mile. Pagelle, under
                            the name of the Trait Galant, where Rose had found
                            a situation. And yet the Trait Galant — which
                            furnished not only the Court of France, but also that
                            of Spain — enjoyed, as far as morals were concerned, a
                            most respectable reputation, a fact of somewhat rare
                            occurrence among the ladies of the millinery profes-
                            sion.
                            It was about that time, too, that Jeanne B^cu,
                            who afterwards became the famous Mme. Du Barry,
                            was apprenticed in the millinery shop of Labille, which
                            was situated in the Rue Neuve-des-Petits-Champs,
                            near the Place des Victoires.
                             Jeanne B6cu, who was
                            known at that time by the name of Mile. Lanson,
                            justified the reputation of the ladies of her profession,
                            and had many lovers.
                             Mile. Oliva, who was after-
                            wards to play her part in the famous affair of the
                            necklace, was also a milliner, and was leading a life
                            similar to that of Jeanne Becu.

                             Rose Bertin had been
                            in the employ of Mile. Pagelle for a short time, when
                            an event occurred which was to decide her future.

                            Among the customers of the Trait Galant was
                            Mine, de la Saune, formerly Mile. Caron, and mistress
                            of the Comte de Charolais, to whom she had borne
                            two daughters. The Count having died, the Princesse
                            de Conti obtained letters of legitimization for the two
                            girls, who took the name of Miles, de Bourbon. The
                            elder soon married the Comte de Puget, whilst the
                            younger became the wife of M. de Lowendal. The
                            wedding dresses of the young ladies had been ordered
                            at the Trait Galant, and the Princesse de Conti had
                            asked to see the dresses herself.

                            It was about eight o'clock in the evening when
                            Mile. Pagelle despatched Rose to the Hotel de Conti
                            with the dresses of the Demoiselles de Bourbon. It
                            was bitter cold, and when the milliner arrived at the
                            palace, and asked to see the Princess, she was shown
                            into a room where a huge fire was blazing. In a
                            corner near the fireplace an old woman — whom Rose
                            took for a chamber maid — was seated.
                             She got up as
                            soon as the girl entered, exclaiming, a Ah, you have
                            brought the dresses of the Demoiselles de Bourbon !
                            let me see." Rose satisfied her curiosity, and the two
                            soon began to chat amicably, when they were in-
                            terrupted by a Lady-in- Waiting. " What," exclaimed
                            the latter, " is your Highness here? " " Yes," replied
                            the Princess, " and I have been enjoying myself
                            immensely."
                             Rose Bertin was quite embarrassed; she
                            threw herself at the feet of Her Highness and begged
                            for forgiveness. But the Princess told her that she
                            had committed no breach of etiquette in having been
                            natural, especially as she was ignorant of the identity
                            of her interlocutress. She assured the milliner of her
                            good -will and protection for the future.

                            This event is related in the "Memoires de Mile.
                            Bertin" and published in 1824. These mimoires are
                            now proved to have been written by J. Penchet with
                            the purpose of whitewashing the memory of Marie-
                            Antoinette and exculpating her from certain accusa-
                            tions. It is, however, impossible that Penchet should
                            have related certain anecdotes without having heard
                            them from the people whom they concerned, and with
                            whom he found himself in constant contact.

                            The Princesse de Conti had thus taken a decided
                            fancy to Rose, and the latter soon received proofs of
                            Her Highness's kindness.

                            The Due de Chartres was going to marry Louise-
                            Marie-Adelaide de Bourbon, daughter of the Due
                            de Penthievre, and the richest heiress in the kingdom,
                            and, thanks to the Princesse de Conti, Rose had received
                            the order to make the trousseau for the bride. Great
                            was the pride of Rose Bertin when she announced the
                            good news to her employer. Mile. Pagelle, who had
                            long ago ceased to consider Rose as a simple employee,
                            opened her arms, and, embracing the little milliner,
                            exclaimed: "Little one, from this moment you may
                            consider yourself as my partner."
                             And henceforth the
                            business of the Trait Galant had two heads, and the
                            most turbulent partner, whose mind was constantly in
                            search for new designs and models, was the little girl
                            from Picarcly, daring and ambitious, and who knew that
                            she was going; to make her fortune and a name famous
                            in Europe.

                            The Duchesse de Chartres also became a protectress
                            of Rose, and she soon found a third in Mme. de
                            Lamballe.
                            But Rose was beautiful, elegant, and
                            graceful. She had above all an air of distinction, and
                            attracted a great deal of attention. One day the Due
                            de Chartres noticed her in the apartments of his wife.
                            She took his fancy. He spoke to her, and unhesi-
                            tatingly made love to her. Would she become his
                            mistress ? He offered her diamonds, horses, a
                            carriage, a fine furnished hotel, if she would onlv
                            consent to listen to his impassioned declarations.
                            But, to his utmost surprise, the little milliner would
                            not listen to the proposals of the noble Duke.
                                 The latter was nonplussed, and the more obstinate Rose
                            was, the more desperate the lover grew. He at last
                            decided to carr}^ the girl off to a little house in
                            Neuilly, where he hoped to make her yield to his
                            wishes. Rose was informed of the plan by a valet ol
                            the Duke, and she lived in constant fear of being kid-
                            napped and carried off to the secluded house at
                            Neuilly. She scarcely ventured to leave her house at
                            night. She knew too well the life led by the noble-
                            men of her time, who modelled their conduct upon
                            that of the King himself, and the abduction of a little
                            milliner in those days would pass absolutely un-
                            noticed.
                                 Every morning she went for her orders to
                            the Duchesse de Chartres, and nothing had as yet
                            happened, when one day she was called to the
                            Comtesse d'Usson for an important order. Rose was
                            conversing with the Comtesse, when the Duke was
                            announced, and Mme. d'Usson rushed to meet His
                            Highness. Rose was evidently being forgotten, and,
                            noticing an easy-chair, she calmly sat down. The
                            Comtesse looked surprised, and motioned to the girl
                            to get up. The milliner took no notice o£ her
                            hostess, who at last exclaimed :

                            " Mile. Rose, you evidently seem to forget that
                            you are in the presence of His Highness.' '

                            " Not at all, madame," replied Rose ; "I am not
                            forgetting it at all."

                            " Then, why are you behaving as you do ?"

                            " Ah !" answered the little milliner, " Mme. la
                            Comtesse is evidently not aware of the fact that if I
                            only wished it I could become Duchesse de Chartres
                            to-night."

                            The Duke changed colour, but said nothing, whilst
                            the Comtesse looked surprised, with the air of some-
                            one who is waiting for the solution of a riddle.

                            " Yes, madame," continued Rose, " I have been
                            offered everything that can tempt a poor girl, and
                            because I have refused I am now in danger of being
                            kidnapped. If, therefore, one day your bonnets and
                            dresses are not ready, and you are told that little Rose
                            has disappeared, you will have to address yourself to
                            His Highness, who will know of her whereabouts."

                             
                             

                            " What do you say to this, monseigneur ?" asked
                            the Comtesse d'Usson.

                            " What can I say ?" replied the latter. " All means
                            are fair when it is a question of subduing a rebel, and
                            I can surely not be blamed for having tried to obtain
                            the favour of such an amiable and beautiful young
                            lady."

                            " Monseigneur is perfectly right to prefer a little
                            milliner to his august wife the Princess, who possesses
                            the highest qualities ; but you will admit, madame,
                            that I too may be allowed to treat familiarly one who is
                            so anxious to make me his companion. If His High-
                            ness will only not forget his rank, I will certainly
                            remember the extreme distance which separates us."
                            Thus spoke Rose, and making a low bow to the
                            Duke, who was murmuring, " You are a little
                            viper/' she left the room, leaving His Highness
                            much perplexed. Henceforth, however, he ceased
                            worrying the milliner with his assiduities.

                                 Rose Bertin did not remain very long in partner-
                            ship with Mile. Pagelle. She soon established her
                            own business, thanks to the help she had received
                            from the Duchesse de Chartres. The latter was in
                            the habit of thus helping poor girls and setting them
                            up in business. Rose Bertin often met the protegees of
                            the Duchess in the antechamber of the ducal palace.
                            One of these protegees was Marie the flower-girl,
                            whom the Duchess had once met in the street and
                            taken a fancy to.

                            Not only had the Duchess provided the funds for
                            Rose's business, but she also recommended hei to a
                            fashionable clientele.
                            At that moment the talk of
                            Court and town was the approaching marriage of the
                            Dauphin with the daughter of Empress Maria-
                            Theresa.
                             In March, 1770, the Duchesse de Chartres
                            went to see Mme. de Noailles, who had been ap-
                            pointed Lady-in-Waiting to the Dauphine, and Mme.
                            de Misery, chosen to be First Chambermaid. She spoke
                            highly of her protegee, praising not only her talents,
                            but also her manners, and, supported by the Princesses
                            de Conti and Lamballe, she procured for Rose the
                            advantage of furnishing the dresses and finery which
                            were to be offered to Marie- Antoinette at Strasburg
                            on her arrival on French soil.

                            Milliners in the eighteenth century were not what
                            they are nowadays ; they not only trimmed hats, but
                            also arranged and ornamented dresses. There were
                            a good many milliners in Paris in those days, and
                            some of them exercised their trade on the Quai de
                            Gevres, where Rose Bertin is supposed to have kept
                            a shop for some time. In any case, she remained
                            there only a short time, and soon we find her estab-
                            lished in the Rue de St. Honore, which was the
                            centre of commerce during the reign of Louis XVI.
                            The signboard of her business contained the inscrip-
                            tion " Au Grand Mogol."
                            The houses in those days
                            were not numbered, and the signboards were there-
                            fore very important, especially as far as the mer-
                            chants were concerned. Each had his signboard
                            with an inscription so as to avoid confusion. Thus
                            one could read in the Rue de St. Honore, " Au
                            Trait Galant," " Au Grand Mogol," " Au Bouquet
                            Galant," " A la Corbeille Galante," and many others.

                                 The reputation of Rose Bertin grew rapidly, and
                            soon reached her native town. Among her customers
                            she counted several inhabitants of Abbeville, a fact
                            which was testified by her books of account.

                            In the meantime the new Dauphine, very fond of
                            chiffon and ribbons and of all feminine finery, was
                            going to introduce — or at least to augment — at
                            the Court of Versailles the cult of fashion, which
                            is often nothing but an insupportable slavery.
                             When Rose Bertin had the honour of approaching Marie-
                            Antoinette for the first time, she at once knew, thanks
                            to her flair as a business woman and her subtlety as a
                            native of Picardy, what benefit she could derive from
                            her situation. She had only to flatter the Dauphine,
                            which was not so very difficult, and by pleasing the
                            latter vastly increase her own income.

                            According to the " Souvenirs " of Leonard, Rose
                            Bertin is supposed to have been introduced to the
                            Dauphine in   1772. The author of these " Souvenirs '
                            is unknown, and the authenticity of the work has
                            been contested ; but it is one of the few writings
                            which make allusion to Mile. Bertin. This so-called
                            Leonard not only pretends that he was the first to
                            introduce Rose to Marie- Antoinette, but he even
                            boasts of his intimate relations with the beautiful
                            milliner. We shall quote the following passage from
                            these " Souvenirs":
                                  " One morning I was informed by my servant that
                            a young lady wished to see me. 1 soon found myself
                            in the presence of a young, beautiful, and very elegant
                            person, whose manners were charming. Her manner
                            was at first somewhat reserved. I at once thought
                            that the charming person had come to solicit my
                            influence at Court in her own favour or in favour of
                            some relation. And, indeed, I was not mistaken. I
                            made the young lady sit down near the fireplace, and
                            I at once noticed that she often availed herself of the
                            opportunity to show her beautifully-shaped foot ; and
                            a beautifully-shaped ankle always makes a man dis-
                            posed to listen favourably to a woman.

                            " You will not be surprised at my visit, M. Leo-
                            nard/ said this seductive person, ' if I tell you who
                            I am. My name is Rose Bertin. The Princesse
                            de Conti and the Duchesse de Chartres have kindly
                            promised to introduce me to Her Royal Highness
                            the Dauphine ; but you know what these great ladies
                            are — one must never press them. I have there-
                            fore come to you, M. Ldonard, whose constant
                            attendance upon Her Highness will give you ample
                            opportunities to speak on my behalf. And you are
                            constantly being consulted upon everything relating
                            to dress — your recommendation will no doubt have
                            a decisive effect.' "

                            M. Leonard promised his help. And, indeed,
                            he kept his word, and at the very first opportunity
                            he mentioned the name of Rose Bertin to the
                            Dauphine.
                            " Mile. Rose Bertin !" said Marie - Antoinette.
                            "You are right to mention her to me, for I now
                            remember that the Duchesse de Chartres and the
                            Princesse de Conti have also spoken of her in very
                            high terms. Comtesse de Misery," continued the
                            Dauphine, turning to her first Lady-in- Waiting, " will
                            you please write to Mile. Rose Bertin, and command
                            her presence here to-morrow."

                                 Rose Bertin was punctual, and introduced to
                            Marie-Antoinette according to all the rules of Court
                            etiquette. Marie- Antoinette gave the young milliner
                            an order of 20,000 livres. Thus, according to the
                            author of the " Souvenirs," Rose Bertin became Court
                            milliner of the Dauphine in 1772.
                               The dates are in
                            all probability exact, but the details of the intro-
                            duction and presentation of Rose Bertin to Marie-
                            Antoinette as given by Leonard are pure invention.
                            Leonard Antie', who enjoyed a considerable reputa-
                            tion, did not live in the Palace of Versailles, as the
                            " Souvenirs " pretend.
                                 He was the hairdresser of
                            Marie-Antoinette, but was in daily attendance upon
                            her. His services were only required on gala-days
                            and special occasions. The daily coiffeur of the
                            Dauphine was Leonard's brother, who was beheaded
                            during the Terror, and consequently could not have
                            written the " Souvenirs," which were compiled at a
                            much later period.
                                Other dates tend to prove that
                            the whole story of Rose's introduction to the Dauphine
                            by Leonard, who at that moment had absolutely no
                            influence at the Court of Versailles, he having been
                            appointed only in 1779, is devoid of all truth.
                             These
                            " Souvenirs " contain numerous anecdotes and in-
                            sinuations and allusions to the part played by Marie-
                            Antoinette in various affairs. Rose Bertin is often
                            mixed up with these affairs — as, for instance, that
                            of the masked ball, where, at the suggestion of the
                            Comte d'Artois, the Dauphine was present. Accord-
                            ing to the author of the " Souvenirs," Leonard was
                            ordered to arrange this nocturnal expedition and to
                            provide the costumes.

                            " I want to go to a masked ball," said Marie-
                            Antoinette ; " Leonard will help us. He will arrange
                            with Mile. Bertin about the costume, and we will
                            dress at the Tuileries. We will leave here at mid-
                            night accompanied by the little Marquise de Langeac,
                            and be at the Tuileries at twelve thirty-five.
                             Rose Bertin will be waiting for us at the Pavilion de Flore ;
                            at one thirty we shall be at the ball, and leave at three
                            o'clock ; and before the clocks strike four we shall
                            be asleep in our beds at Versailles." 
                             

                          • Dannie
                            You mentioned several things of interest ... the illusions written much later .. the whitewashing of history ect .. actually there is more to this than many
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                              You mentioned several things of interest ... the illusions written
                              much later .. the whitewashing of history ect .. actually there is
                              more to this than many know about ... especially if one or a group of
                              the many wanted to change history to suit the situation which in turn
                              was the revolution itself and what it stood for ...

                              In order to raise the revolution to its high standard .. something
                              must be lowered .. this lowering came in many forms and fashion but
                              all with the same objective agenda ... Monarchy .. Religion .. and
                              politics.

                              The goal of the rearrangements of facts was to condemn the
                              Monarchy .. remove Catholics .. and institute the new order of
                              things .. this began not in France .. but in Germany ... in order to
                              dethrone the current Monarchy of Germany during Marie Antoinettes
                              time frame.

                              But something stood in their way ... France .. the Monarchy .. and
                              the powerful Queen who stood her ground ... Marie Antoinette .. which
                              in turn would lossen the power hold of Austria and Spain.

                              From this struggle of who is going to be on top .. to gain control ..
                              they MUST remove Marie Antoinette .. Louis was weak .. but the Queen
                              had power.

                              To do this .. the ones who wanted to remove MA, the Monarchy itself
                              of Europe, the Catholic Church, and more .. they could not do this
                              alone ...

                              They enlisted the aid of another Revolution ... America.

                              And from thier aid .. the forefathers of AMerica .. they accomplished
                              thier goal ...

                              BUT .. the intrique ... that developed was total precise planning on
                              both sides ... and MA was emerged into the most awesome intriquing
                              circumstances of all time ...

                              This also included the Theatre .. the most renowned composers of all
                              time .. and the spy network utilized by MA.

                              Mozart .. or would that be Trazom .. was among them ...

                              Yes .. the whitewashing of history .. was indeed to insert false
                              claims against MA, the Church, the Monarchy, and more.

                              But THIS .. is another story ...

                              Dannie Louis Troxell
                              DannieT31




                              --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, Tim
                              <timm_collins2002@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Just a taste of the Rose Bertin book I found
                              > on the web,
                              > Looks like she was introduced to MA  in  1772
                              > I ll put  the whole book  into an 'open office' file
                              > eventually and send  via   rapid share
                              > Meanwhile.... read on.....
                              >  
                              > (1770-1774)
                              >
                              > The reign of Marie- Antoinette was one of futility and
                              > chiffon ; and if the Queen did not create the office of a
                              > Minister of Fashion, the Court of Versailles was never-
                              > theless always crowded with hairdressers, dressmakers,
                              > and milliners, who exercised more influence than the
                              > King's Councillors. Rose Bertin was one of their
                              > number. Her real name was Marie- Jeanne Bertin,
                              > and thus she figures in all biographical dictionaries.
                              > She was born at Amiens in 1744, but recent researches,
                              > made in the archives of Abbeville, have fixed July 2,
                              > 1747, as the exact date of her birth. This is con-
                              > firmed by an extract from her birth certificate inserted
                              > in the register of the parish of St. Gilles, and signed
                              > by the curate, Falconnier. Her parents were people
                              > of very small means, and the earnings of the father
                              > did not suffice to educate the two children, Marie-
                              > Jeanne and her brother, Jean-Laurent, two years
                              > younger than herself.
                              > To augment the budget of the
                              > family, the mother was obliged to exercise the pro-
                              > fession of sick-nurse. Marie- Jeanne had thus received
                              > a very modest education, but sufficient to develop her
                              > sense of ambition. Nature had been kind to her ; she
                              > was beautiful, and she knew it â€" women are never
                              > unconscious of such things, and are always ready to
                              > profit by it â€" but Marie- Jeanne was also endowed with
                              > a great deal of intelligence, which enabled her to make
                              > her way in life.
                              >
                              > She had faith in her star. One day a gipsy foretold
                              > her future. Rose was only a child when the gipsy
                              > was arrested and imprisoned. The cronies of the
                              > neighbourhood, talkative and superstitious, told won-
                              > derful things of the prisoner who had read the future
                              > in the palms of their hands. The child became
                              > curious, and longed to know what lay in store for her.
                              > But she had no money to pay the old woman for her
                              > prophecies, and neither father nor mother Bertin would
                              > ever consent to spend a trifle on such childish whims.
                              > Rose therefore starved herself, and carried her portion
                              > of food to the prisoner.
                              >
                              > Prisons in those days were
                              > not what they are now, and the girl easily obtained
                              > access to the imprisoned gipsy, who, in exchange for
                              > a succulent dish, consented to lift the mysterious veil
                              > of the future. Taking the white hand of the child
                              > between her own long, dirty lingers, she said senten-
                              > tiously : " You will rise to great fortune, and will
                              > one day wear a Court dress." Rose left the prison,
                              > her face beaming with joy.
                              >
                              > But Nicholas Bertin,her father, who was seventy-two
                              > years old, died on January 24, 1754, leaving the burden
                              > of the family and the upbringing of the children to
                              > his widow. Rose loved her mother, and she was
                              > not a girl to allow the latter to work too much when
                              > she was in a position to come to her assistance. She
                              > was sixteen now, and one day she made up her mind
                              > to leave home, and mounted the coach which took her
                              > to Paris. Little did her people, who were sadly
                              > watching her departure, think that Rose was going
                              > to meet her fortune.
                              >
                              > Rose Bertin was not awkward ; they soon perceived
                              > it in the millinery shop kept by Mile. Pagelle, under
                              > the name of the Trait Galant, where Rose had found
                              > a situation. And yet the Trait Galant â€" which
                              > furnished not only the Court of France, but also that
                              > of Spain â€" enjoyed, as far as morals were concerned, a
                              > most respectable reputation, a fact of somewhat rare
                              > occurrence among the ladies of the millinery profes-
                              > sion.
                              > It was about that time, too, that Jeanne B^cu,
                              > who afterwards became the famous Mme. Du Barry,
                              > was apprenticed in the millinery shop of Labille, which
                              > was situated in the Rue Neuve-des-Petits-Champs,
                              > near the Place des Victoires.
                              >  Jeanne B6cu, who was
                              > known at that time by the name of Mile. Lanson,
                              > justified the reputation of the ladies of her profession,
                              > and had many lovers.
                              >  Mile. Oliva, who was after-
                              > wards to play her part in the famous affair of the
                              > necklace, was also a milliner, and was leading a life
                              > similar to that of Jeanne Becu.
                              >
                              >  Rose Bertin had been
                              > in the employ of Mile. Pagelle for a short time, when
                              > an event occurred which was to decide her future.
                              >
                              > Among the customers of the Trait Galant was
                              > Mine, de la Saune, formerly Mile. Caron, and mistress
                              > of the Comte de Charolais, to whom she had borne
                              > two daughters. The Count having died, the Princesse
                              > de Conti obtained letters of legitimization for the two
                              > girls, who took the name of Miles, de Bourbon. The
                              > elder soon married the Comte de Puget, whilst the
                              > younger became the wife of M. de Lowendal. The
                              > wedding dresses of the young ladies had been ordered
                              > at the Trait Galant, and the Princesse de Conti had
                              > asked to see the dresses herself.
                              >
                              > It was about eight o'clock in the evening when
                              > Mile. Pagelle despatched Rose to the Hotel de Conti
                              > with the dresses of the Demoiselles de Bourbon. It
                              > was bitter cold, and when the milliner arrived at the
                              > palace, and asked to see the Princess, she was shown
                              > into a room where a huge fire was blazing. In a
                              > corner near the fireplace an old woman â€" whom Rose
                              > took for a chamber maid â€" was seated.
                              >  She got up as
                              > soon as the girl entered, exclaiming, a Ah, you have
                              > brought the dresses of the Demoiselles de Bourbon !
                              > let me see." Rose satisfied her curiosity, and the two
                              > soon began to chat amicably, when they were in-
                              > terrupted by a Lady-in- Waiting. " What," exclaimed
                              > the latter, " is your Highness here? " " Yes," replied
                              > the Princess, " and I have been enjoying myself
                              > immensely."
                              >  Rose Bertin was quite embarrassed; she
                              > threw herself at the feet of Her Highness and begged
                              > for forgiveness. But the Princess told her that she
                              > had committed no breach of etiquette in having been
                              > natural, especially as she was ignorant of the identity
                              > of her interlocutress. She assured the milliner of her
                              > good -will and protection for the future.
                              >
                              > This event is related in the "Memoires de Mile.
                              > Bertin" and published in 1824. These mimoires are
                              > now proved to have been written by J. Penchet with
                              > the purpose of whitewashing the memory of Marie-
                              > Antoinette and exculpating her from certain accusa-
                              > tions. It is, however, impossible that Penchet should
                              > have related certain anecdotes without having heard
                              > them from the people whom they concerned, and with
                              > whom he found himself in constant contact.
                              >
                              > The Princesse de Conti had thus taken a decided
                              > fancy to Rose, and the latter soon received proofs of
                              > Her Highness's kindness.
                              >
                              > The Due de Chartres was going to marry Louise-
                              > Marie-Adelaide de Bourbon, daughter of the Due
                              > de Penthievre, and the richest heiress in the kingdom,
                              > and, thanks to the Princesse de Conti, Rose had received
                              > the order to make the trousseau for the bride. Great
                              > was the pride of Rose Bertin when she announced the
                              > good news to her employer. Mile. Pagelle, who had
                              > long ago ceased to consider Rose as a simple employee,
                              > opened her arms, and, embracing the little milliner,
                              > exclaimed: "Little one, from this moment you may
                              > consider yourself as my partner."
                              >  And henceforth the
                              > business of the Trait Galant had two heads, and the
                              > most turbulent partner, whose mind was constantly in
                              > search for new designs and models, was the little girl
                              > from Picarcly, daring and ambitious, and who knew that
                              > she was going; to make her fortune and a name famous
                              > in Europe.
                              >
                              > The Duchesse de Chartres also became a protectress
                              > of Rose, and she soon found a third in Mme. de
                              > Lamballe.
                              > But Rose was beautiful, elegant, and
                              > graceful. She had above all an air of distinction, and
                              > attracted a great deal of attention. One day the Due
                              > de Chartres noticed her in the apartments of his wife.
                              > She took his fancy. He spoke to her, and unhesi-
                              > tatingly made love to her. Would she become his
                              > mistress ? He offered her diamonds, horses, a
                              > carriage, a fine furnished hotel, if she would onlv
                              > consent to listen to his impassioned declarations.
                              > But, to his utmost surprise, the little milliner would
                              > not listen to the proposals of the noble Duke.
                              >      The latter was nonplussed, and the more obstinate Rose
                              > was, the more desperate the lover grew. He at last
                              > decided to carr}^ the girl off to a little house in
                              > Neuilly, where he hoped to make her yield to his
                              > wishes. Rose was informed of the plan by a valet ol
                              > the Duke, and she lived in constant fear of being kid-
                              > napped and carried off to the secluded house at
                              > Neuilly. She scarcely ventured to leave her house at
                              > night. She knew too well the life led by the noble-
                              > men of her time, who modelled their conduct upon
                              > that of the King himself, and the abduction of a little
                              > milliner in those days would pass absolutely un-
                              > noticed.
                              >      Every morning she went for her orders to
                              > the Duchesse de Chartres, and nothing had as yet
                              > happened, when one day she was called to the
                              > Comtesse d'Usson for an important order. Rose was
                              > conversing with the Comtesse, when the Duke was
                              > announced, and Mme. d'Usson rushed to meet His
                              > Highness. Rose was evidently being forgotten, and,
                              > noticing an easy-chair, she calmly sat down. The
                              > Comtesse looked surprised, and motioned to the girl
                              > to get up. The milliner took no notice o£ her
                              > hostess, who at last exclaimed :
                              >
                              > " Mile. Rose, you evidently seem to forget that
                              > you are in the presence of His Highness.' '
                              >
                              > " Not at all, madame," replied Rose ; "I am not
                              > forgetting it at all."
                              >
                              > " Then, why are you behaving as you do ?"
                              >
                              > " Ah !" answered the little milliner, " Mme. la
                              > Comtesse is evidently not aware of the fact that if I
                              > only wished it I could become Duchesse de Chartres
                              > to-night."
                              >
                              > The Duke changed colour, but said nothing, whilst
                              > the Comtesse looked surprised, with the air of some-
                              > one who is waiting for the solution of a riddle.
                              >
                              > " Yes, madame," continued Rose, " I have been
                              > offered everything that can tempt a poor girl, and
                              > because I have refused I am now in danger of being
                              > kidnapped. If, therefore, one day your bonnets and
                              > dresses are not ready, and you are told that little Rose
                              > has disappeared, you will have to address yourself to
                              > His Highness, who will know of her whereabouts."
                              >
                              >  
                              >  
                              >
                              > " What do you say to this, monseigneur ?" asked
                              > the Comtesse d'Usson.
                              >
                              > " What can I say ?" replied the latter. " All means
                              > are fair when it is a question of subduing a rebel, and
                              > I can surely not be blamed for having tried to obtain
                              > the favour of such an amiable and beautiful young
                              > lady."
                              >
                              > " Monseigneur is perfectly right to prefer a little
                              > milliner to his august wife the Princess, who possesses
                              > the highest qualities ; but you will admit, madame,
                              > that I too may be allowed to treat familiarly one who is
                              > so anxious to make me his companion. If His High-
                              > ness will only not forget his rank, I will certainly
                              > remember the extreme distance which separates us."
                              > Thus spoke Rose, and making a low bow to the
                              > Duke, who was murmuring, " You are a little
                              > viper/' she left the room, leaving His Highness
                              > much perplexed. Henceforth, however, he ceased
                              > worrying the milliner with his assiduities.
                              >
                              >      Rose Bertin did not remain very long in partner-
                              > ship with Mile. Pagelle. She soon established her
                              > own business, thanks to the help she had received
                              > from the Duchesse de Chartres. The latter was in
                              > the habit of thus helping poor girls and setting them
                              > up in business. Rose Bertin often met the protegees of
                              > the Duchess in the antechamber of the ducal palace.
                              > One of these protegees was Marie the flower-girl,
                              > whom the Duchess had once met in the street and
                              > taken a fancy to.
                              >
                              > Not only had the Duchess provided the funds for
                              > Rose's business, but she also recommended hei to a
                              > fashionable clientele.
                              > At that moment the talk of
                              > Court and town was the approaching marriage of the
                              > Dauphin with the daughter of Empress Maria-
                              > Theresa.
                              >  In March, 1770, the Duchesse de Chartres
                              > went to see Mme. de Noailles, who had been ap-
                              > pointed Lady-in-Waiting to the Dauphine, and Mme.
                              > de Misery, chosen to be First Chambermaid. She spoke
                              > highly of her protegee, praising not only her talents,
                              > but also her manners, and, supported by the Princesses
                              > de Conti and Lamballe, she procured for Rose the
                              > advantage of furnishing the dresses and finery which
                              > were to be offered to Marie- Antoinette at Strasburg
                              > on her arrival on French soil.
                              >
                              > Milliners in the eighteenth century were not what
                              > they are nowadays ; they not only trimmed hats, but
                              > also arranged and ornamented dresses. There were
                              > a good many milliners in Paris in those days, and
                              > some of them exercised their trade on the Quai de
                              > Gevres, where Rose Bertin is supposed to have kept
                              > a shop for some time. In any case, she remained
                              > there only a short time, and soon we find her estab-
                              > lished in the Rue de St. Honore, which was the
                              > centre of commerce during the reign of Louis XVI.
                              > The signboard of her business contained the inscrip-
                              > tion " Au Grand Mogol."
                              > The houses in those days
                              > were not numbered, and the signboards were there-
                              > fore very important, especially as far as the mer-
                              > chants were concerned. Each had his signboard
                              > with an inscription so as to avoid confusion. Thus
                              > one could read in the Rue de St. Honore, " Au
                              > Trait Galant," " Au Grand Mogol," " Au Bouquet
                              > Galant," " A la Corbeille Galante," and many others.
                              >
                              >      The reputation of Rose Bertin grew rapidly, and
                              > soon reached her native town. Among her customers
                              > she counted several inhabitants of Abbeville, a fact
                              > which was testified by her books of account.
                              >
                              > In the meantime the new Dauphine, very fond of
                              > chiffon and ribbons and of all feminine finery, was
                              > going to introduce â€" or at least to augment â€" at
                              > the Court of Versailles the cult of fashion, which
                              > is often nothing but an insupportable slavery.
                              >  When Rose Bertin had the honour of approaching Marie-
                              > Antoinette for the first time, she at once knew, thanks
                              > to her flair as a business woman and her subtlety as a
                              > native of Picardy, what benefit she could derive from
                              > her situation. She had only to flatter the Dauphine,
                              > which was not so very difficult, and by pleasing the
                              > latter vastly increase her own income.
                              >
                              > According to the " Souvenirs " of Leonard, Rose
                              > Bertin is supposed to have been introduced to the
                              > Dauphine in   1772. The author of these " Souvenirs '
                              > is unknown, and the authenticity of the work has
                              > been contested ; but it is one of the few writings
                              > which make allusion to Mile. Bertin. This so-called
                              > Leonard not only pretends that he was the first to
                              > introduce Rose to Marie- Antoinette, but he even
                              > boasts of his intimate relations with the beautiful
                              > milliner. We shall quote the following passage from
                              > these " Souvenirs":
                              >       " One morning I was informed by my servant that
                              > a young lady wished to see me. 1 soon found myself
                              > in the presence of a young, beautiful, and very elegant
                              > person, whose manners were charming. Her manner
                              > was at first somewhat reserved. I at once thought
                              > that the charming person had come to solicit my
                              > influence at Court in her own favour or in favour of
                              > some relation. And, indeed, I was not mistaken. I
                              > made the young lady sit down near the fireplace, and
                              > I at once noticed that she often availed herself of the
                              > opportunity to show her beautifully-shaped foot ; and
                              > a beautifully-shaped ankle always makes a man dis-
                              > posed to listen favourably to a woman.
                              >
                              > " You will not be surprised at my visit, M. Leo-
                              > nard/ said this seductive person, ' if I tell you who
                              > I am. My name is Rose Bertin. The Princesse
                              > de Conti and the Duchesse de Chartres have kindly
                              > promised to introduce me to Her Royal Highness
                              > the Dauphine ; but you know what these great ladies
                              > are â€" one must never press them. I have there-
                              > fore come to you, M. Ldonard, whose constant
                              > attendance upon Her Highness will give you ample
                              > opportunities to speak on my behalf. And you are
                              > constantly being consulted upon everything relating
                              > to dress â€" your recommendation will no doubt have
                              > a decisive effect.' "
                              >
                              > M. Leonard promised his help. And, indeed,
                              > he kept his word, and at the very first opportunity
                              > he mentioned the name of Rose Bertin to the
                              > Dauphine.
                              > " Mile. Rose Bertin !" said Marie - Antoinette.
                              > "You are right to mention her to me, for I now
                              > remember that the Duchesse de Chartres and the
                              > Princesse de Conti have also spoken of her in very
                              > high terms. Comtesse de Misery," continued the
                              > Dauphine, turning to her first Lady-in- Waiting, " will
                              > you please write to Mile. Rose Bertin, and command
                              > her presence here to-morrow."
                              >
                              >      Rose Bertin was punctual, and introduced to
                              > Marie-Antoinette according to all the rules of Court
                              > etiquette. Marie- Antoinette gave the young milliner
                              > an order of 20,000 livres. Thus, according to the
                              > author of the " Souvenirs," Rose Bertin became Court
                              > milliner of the Dauphine in 1772.
                              >    The dates are in
                              > all probability exact, but the details of the intro-
                              > duction and presentation of Rose Bertin to Marie-
                              > Antoinette as given by Leonard are pure invention.
                              > Leonard Antie', who enjoyed a considerable reputa-
                              > tion, did not live in the Palace of Versailles, as the
                              > " Souvenirs " pretend.
                              >      He was the hairdresser of
                              > Marie-Antoinette, but was in daily attendance upon
                              > her. His services were only required on gala-days
                              > and special occasions. The daily coiffeur of the
                              > Dauphine was Leonard's brother, who was beheaded
                              > during the Terror, and consequently could not have
                              > written the " Souvenirs," which were compiled at a
                              > much later period.
                              >     Other dates tend to prove that
                              > the whole story of Rose's introduction to the Dauphine
                              > by Leonard, who at that moment had absolutely no
                              > influence at the Court of Versailles, he having been
                              > appointed only in 1779, is devoid of all truth.
                              >  These
                              > " Souvenirs " contain numerous anecdotes and in-
                              > sinuations and allusions to the part played by Marie-
                              > Antoinette in various affairs. Rose Bertin is often
                              > mixed up with these affairs â€" as, for instance, that
                              > of the masked ball, where, at the suggestion of the
                              > Comte d'Artois, the Dauphine was present. Accord-
                              > ing to the author of the " Souvenirs," Leonard was
                              > ordered to arrange this nocturnal expedition and to
                              > provide the costumes.
                              >
                              > " I want to go to a masked ball," said Marie-
                              > Antoinette ; " Leonard will help us. He will arrange
                              > with Mile. Bertin about the costume, and we will
                              > dress at the Tuileries. We will leave here at mid-
                              > night accompanied by the little Marquise de Langeac,
                              > and be at the Tuileries at twelve thirty-five.
                              >  Rose Bertin will be waiting for us at the Pavilion de Flore ;
                              > at one thirty we shall be at the ball, and leave at three
                              > o'clock ; and before the clocks strike four we shall
                              > be asleep in our beds at Versailles."  
                              >
                            • janet fauble
                              Thanks for putting this article on the message boards now as I appreciated reading this version of Rose Bertin.  She is certainly a  remarkable woman, loved
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks for putting this article on the message boards now as I appreciated reading this version of Rose Bertin.  She is certainly a  remarkable woman, loved the story about how she evaded kidnapping and was called a Little Viper.   Very interesting characterization!  Jan

                                --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Tim <timm_collins2002@...> wrote:
                                From: Tim <timm_collins2002@...>
                                Subject: Rose Bertin
                                To: "IMAGES OF MARIE ANTOINETTE" <Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com>
                                Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 1:29 PM

                                Just a taste of the Rose Bertin book I found
                                on the web,
                                Looks like she was introduced to MA  in  1772
                                I ll put  the whole book  into an 'open office' file
                                eventually and send  via   rapid share
                                Meanwhile... . read on.....
                                 
                                (1770-1774)

                                The reign of Marie- Antoinette was one of futility and
                                chiffon ; and if the Queen did not create the office of a
                                Minister of Fashion, the Court of Versailles was never-
                                theless always crowded with hairdressers, dressmakers,
                                and milliners, who exercised more influence than the
                                King's Councillors. Rose Bertin was one of their
                                number. Her real name was Marie- Jeanne Bertin,
                                and thus she figures in all biographical dictionaries.
                                She was born at Amiens in 1744, but recent researches,
                                made in the archives of Abbeville, have fixed July 2,
                                1747, as the exact date of her birth. This is con-
                                firmed by an extract from her birth certificate inserted
                                in the register of the parish of St. Gilles, and signed
                                by the curate, Falconnier. Her parents were people
                                of very small means, and the earnings of the father
                                did not suffice to educate the two children, Marie-
                                Jeanne and her brother, Jean-Laurent, two years
                                younger than herself.
                                To augment the budget of the
                                family, the mother was obliged to exercise the pro-
                                fession of sick-nurse. Marie- Jeanne had thus received
                                a very modest education, but sufficient to develop her
                                sense of ambition. Nature had been kind to her ; she
                                was beautiful, and she knew it — women are never
                                unconscious of such things, and are always ready to
                                profit by it — but Marie- Jeanne was also endowed with
                                a great deal of intelligence, which enabled her to make
                                her way in life.

                                She had faith in her star. One day a gipsy foretold
                                her future. Rose was only a child when the gipsy
                                was arrested and imprisoned. The cronies of the
                                neighbourhood, talkative and superstitious, told won-
                                derful things of the prisoner who had read the future
                                in the palms of their hands. The child became
                                curious, and longed to know what lay in store for her.
                                But she had no money to pay the old woman for her
                                prophecies, and neither father nor mother Bertin would
                                ever consent to spend a trifle on such childish whims.
                                Rose therefore starved herself, and carried her portion
                                of food to the prisoner.

                                Prisons in those days were
                                not what they are now, and the girl easily obtained
                                access to the imprisoned gipsy, who, in exchange for
                                a succulent dish, consented to lift the mysterious veil
                                of the future. Taking the white hand of the child
                                between her own long, dirty lingers, she said senten-
                                tiously : " You will rise to great fortune, and will
                                one day wear a Court dress." Rose left the prison,
                                her face beaming with joy.

                                But Nicholas Bertin,her father, who was seventy-two
                                years old, died on January 24, 1754, leaving the burden
                                of the family and the upbringing of the children to
                                his widow. Rose loved her mother, and she was
                                not a girl to allow the latter to work too much when
                                she was in a position to come to her assistance. She
                                was sixteen now, and one day she made up her mind
                                to leave home, and mounted the coach which took her
                                to Paris. Little did her people, who were sadly
                                watching her departure, think that Rose was going
                                to meet her fortune.

                                Rose Bertin was not awkward ; they soon perceived
                                it in the millinery shop kept by Mile. Pagelle, under
                                the name of the Trait Galant, where Rose had found
                                a situation. And yet the Trait Galant — which
                                furnished not only the Court of France, but also that
                                of Spain — enjoyed, as far as morals were concerned, a
                                most respectable reputation, a fact of somewhat rare
                                occurrence among the ladies of the millinery profes-
                                sion.
                                It was about that time, too, that Jeanne B^cu,
                                who afterwards became the famous Mme. Du Barry,
                                was apprenticed in the millinery shop of Labille, which
                                was situated in the Rue Neuve-des-Petits- Champs,
                                near the Place des Victoires.
                                 Jeanne B6cu, who was
                                known at that time by the name of Mile. Lanson,
                                justified the reputation of the ladies of her profession,
                                and had many lovers.
                                 Mile. Oliva, who was after-
                                wards to play her part in the famous affair of the
                                necklace, was also a milliner, and was leading a life
                                similar to that of Jeanne Becu.

                                 Rose Bertin had been
                                in the employ of Mile. Pagelle for a short time, when
                                an event occurred which was to decide her future.

                                Among the customers of the Trait Galant was
                                Mine, de la Saune, formerly Mile. Caron, and mistress
                                of the Comte de Charolais, to whom she had borne
                                two daughters. The Count having died, the Princesse
                                de Conti obtained letters of legitimization for the two
                                girls, who took the name of Miles, de Bourbon. The
                                elder soon married the Comte de Puget, whilst the
                                younger became the wife of M. de Lowendal. The
                                wedding dresses of the young ladies had been ordered
                                at the Trait Galant, and the Princesse de Conti had
                                asked to see the dresses herself.

                                It was about eight o'clock in the evening when
                                Mile. Pagelle despatched Rose to the Hotel de Conti
                                with the dresses of the Demoiselles de Bourbon. It
                                was bitter cold, and when the milliner arrived at the
                                palace, and asked to see the Princess, she was shown
                                into a room where a huge fire was blazing. In a
                                corner near the fireplace an old woman — whom Rose
                                took for a chamber maid — was seated.
                                 She got up as
                                soon as the girl entered, exclaiming, a Ah, you have
                                brought the dresses of the Demoiselles de Bourbon !
                                let me see." Rose satisfied her curiosity, and the two
                                soon began to chat amicably, when they were in-
                                terrupted by a Lady-in- Waiting. " What," exclaimed
                                the latter, " is your Highness here? " " Yes," replied
                                the Princess, " and I have been enjoying myself
                                immensely."
                                 Rose Bertin was quite embarrassed; she
                                threw herself at the feet of Her Highness and begged
                                for forgiveness. But the Princess told her that she
                                had committed no breach of etiquette in having been
                                natural, especially as she was ignorant of the identity
                                of her interlocutress. She assured the milliner of her
                                good -will and protection for the future.

                                This event is related in the "Memoires de Mile.
                                Bertin" and published in 1824. These mimoires are
                                now proved to have been written by J. Penchet with
                                the purpose of whitewashing the memory of Marie-
                                Antoinette and exculpating her from certain accusa-
                                tions. It is, however, impossible that Penchet should
                                have related certain anecdotes without having heard
                                them from the people whom they concerned, and with
                                whom he found himself in constant contact.

                                The Princesse de Conti had thus taken a decided
                                fancy to Rose, and the latter soon received proofs of
                                Her Highness's kindness.

                                The Due de Chartres was going to marry Louise-
                                Marie-Adelaide de Bourbon, daughter of the Due
                                de Penthievre, and the richest heiress in the kingdom,
                                and, thanks to the Princesse de Conti, Rose had received
                                the order to make the trousseau for the bride. Great
                                was the pride of Rose Bertin when she announced the
                                good news to her employer. Mile. Pagelle, who had
                                long ago ceased to consider Rose as a simple employee,
                                opened her arms, and, embracing the little milliner,
                                exclaimed: "Little one, from this moment you may
                                consider yourself as my partner."
                                 And henceforth the
                                business of the Trait Galant had two heads, and the
                                most turbulent partner, whose mind was constantly in
                                search for new designs and models, was the little girl
                                from Picarcly, daring and ambitious, and who knew that
                                she was going; to make her fortune and a name famous
                                in Europe.

                                The Duchesse de Chartres also became a protectress
                                of Rose, and she soon found a third in Mme. de
                                Lamballe.
                                But Rose was beautiful, elegant, and
                                graceful. She had above all an air of distinction, and
                                attracted a great deal of attention. One day the Due
                                de Chartres noticed her in the apartments of his wife.
                                She took his fancy. He spoke to her, and unhesi-
                                tatingly made love to her. Would she become his
                                mistress ? He offered her diamonds, horses, a
                                carriage, a fine furnished hotel, if she would onlv
                                consent to listen to his impassioned declarations.
                                But, to his utmost surprise, the little milliner would
                                not listen to the proposals of the noble Duke.
                                     The latter was nonplussed, and the more obstinate Rose
                                was, the more desperate the lover grew. He at last
                                decided to carr}^ the girl off to a little house in
                                Neuilly, where he hoped to make her yield to his
                                wishes. Rose was informed of the plan by a valet ol
                                the Duke, and she lived in constant fear of being kid-
                                napped and carried off to the secluded house at
                                Neuilly. She scarcely ventured to leave her house at
                                night. She knew too well the life led by the noble-
                                men of her time, who modelled their conduct upon
                                that of the King himself, and the abduction of a little
                                milliner in those days would pass absolutely un-
                                noticed.
                                     Every morning she went for her orders to
                                the Duchesse de Chartres, and nothing had as yet
                                happened, when one day she was called to the
                                Comtesse d'Usson for an important order. Rose was
                                conversing with the Comtesse, when the Duke was
                                announced, and Mme. d'Usson rushed to meet His
                                Highness. Rose was evidently being forgotten, and,
                                noticing an easy-chair, she calmly sat down. The
                                Comtesse looked surprised, and motioned to the girl
                                to get up. The milliner took no notice o£ her
                                hostess, who at last exclaimed :

                                " Mile. Rose, you evidently seem to forget that
                                you are in the presence of His Highness.' '

                                " Not at all, madame," replied Rose ; "I am not
                                forgetting it at all."

                                " Then, why are you behaving as you do ?"

                                " Ah !" answered the little milliner, " Mme. la
                                Comtesse is evidently not aware of the fact that if I
                                only wished it I could become Duchesse de Chartres
                                to-night."

                                The Duke changed colour, but said nothing, whilst
                                the Comtesse looked surprised, with the air of some-
                                one who is waiting for the solution of a riddle.

                                " Yes, madame," continued Rose, " I have been
                                offered everything that can tempt a poor girl, and
                                because I have refused I am now in danger of being
                                kidnapped. If, therefore, one day your bonnets and
                                dresses are not ready, and you are told that little Rose
                                has disappeared, you will have to address yourself to
                                His Highness, who will know of her whereabouts. "

                                 
                                 

                                " What do you say to this, monseigneur ?" asked
                                the Comtesse d'Usson.

                                " What can I say ?" replied the latter. " All means
                                are fair when it is a question of subduing a rebel, and
                                I can surely not be blamed for having tried to obtain
                                the favour of such an amiable and beautiful young
                                lady."

                                " Monseigneur is perfectly right to prefer a little
                                milliner to his august wife the Princess, who possesses
                                the highest qualities ; but you will admit, madame,
                                that I too may be allowed to treat familiarly one who is
                                so anxious to make me his companion. If His High-
                                ness will only not forget his rank, I will certainly
                                remember the extreme distance which separates us."
                                Thus spoke Rose, and making a low bow to the
                                Duke, who was murmuring, " You are a little
                                viper/' she left the room, leaving His Highness
                                much perplexed. Henceforth, however, he ceased
                                worrying the milliner with his assiduities.

                                     Rose Bertin did not remain very long in partner-
                                ship with Mile. Pagelle. She soon established her
                                own business, thanks to the help she had received
                                from the Duchesse de Chartres. The latter was in
                                the habit of thus helping poor girls and setting them
                                up in business. Rose Bertin often met the protegees of
                                the Duchess in the antechamber of the ducal palace.
                                One of these protegees was Marie the flower-girl,
                                whom the Duchess had once met in the street and
                                taken a fancy to.

                                Not only had the Duchess provided the funds for
                                Rose's business, but she also recommended hei to a
                                fashionable clientele.
                                At that moment the talk of
                                Court and town was the approaching marriage of the
                                Dauphin with the daughter of Empress Maria-
                                Theresa.
                                 In March, 1770, the Duchesse de Chartres
                                went to see Mme. de Noailles, who had been ap-
                                pointed Lady-in-Waiting to the Dauphine, and Mme.
                                de Misery, chosen to be First Chambermaid. She spoke
                                highly of her protegee, praising not only her talents,
                                but also her manners, and, supported by the Princesses
                                de Conti and Lamballe, she procured for Rose the
                                advantage of furnishing the dresses and finery which
                                were to be offered to Marie- Antoinette at Strasburg
                                on her arrival on French soil.

                                Milliners in the eighteenth century were not what
                                they are nowadays ; they not only trimmed hats, but
                                also arranged and ornamented dresses. There were
                                a good many milliners in Paris in those days, and
                                some of them exercised their trade on the Quai de
                                Gevres, where Rose Bertin is supposed to have kept
                                a shop for some time. In any case, she remained
                                there only a short time, and soon we find her estab-
                                lished in the Rue de St. Honore, which was the
                                centre of commerce during the reign of Louis XVI.
                                The signboard of her business contained the inscrip-
                                tion " Au Grand Mogol."
                                The houses in those days
                                were not numbered, and the signboards were there-
                                fore very important, especially as far as the mer-
                                chants were concerned. Each had his signboard
                                with an inscription so as to avoid confusion. Thus
                                one could read in the Rue de St. Honore, " Au
                                Trait Galant," " Au Grand Mogol," " Au Bouquet
                                Galant," " A la Corbeille Galante," and many others.

                                     The reputation of Rose Bertin grew rapidly, and
                                soon reached her native town. Among her customers
                                she counted several inhabitants of Abbeville, a fact
                                which was testified by her books of account.

                                In the meantime the new Dauphine, very fond of
                                chiffon and ribbons and of all feminine finery, was
                                going to introduce — or at least to augment — at
                                the Court of Versailles the cult of fashion, which
                                is often nothing but an insupportable slavery.
                                 When Rose Bertin had the honour of approaching Marie-
                                Antoinette for the first time, she at once knew, thanks
                                to her flair as a business woman and her subtlety as a
                                native of Picardy, what benefit she could derive from
                                her situation. She had only to flatter the Dauphine,
                                which was not so very difficult, and by pleasing the
                                latter vastly increase her own income.

                                According to the " Souvenirs " of Leonard, Rose
                                Bertin is supposed to have been introduced to the
                                Dauphine in   1772. The author of these " Souvenirs '
                                is unknown, and the authenticity of the work has
                                been contested ; but it is one of the few writings
                                which make allusion to Mile. Bertin. This so-called
                                Leonard not only pretends that he was the first to
                                introduce Rose to Marie- Antoinette, but he even
                                boasts of his intimate relations with the beautiful
                                milliner. We shall quote the following passage from
                                these " Souvenirs":
                                      " One morning I was informed by my servant that
                                a young lady wished to see me. 1 soon found myself
                                in the presence of a young, beautiful, and very elegant
                                person, whose manners were charming. Her manner
                                was at first somewhat reserved. I at once thought
                                that the charming person had come to solicit my
                                influence at Court in her own favour or in favour of
                                some relation. And, indeed, I was not mistaken. I
                                made the young lady sit down near the fireplace, and
                                I at once noticed that she often availed herself of the
                                opportunity to show her beautifully- shaped foot ; and
                                a beautifully- shaped ankle always makes a man dis-
                                posed to listen favourably to a woman.

                                " You will not be surprised at my visit, M. Leo-
                                nard/ said this seductive person, ' if I tell you who
                                I am. My name is Rose Bertin. The Princesse
                                de Conti and the Duchesse de Chartres have kindly
                                promised to introduce me to Her Royal Highness
                                the Dauphine ; but you know what these great ladies
                                are — one must never press them. I have there-
                                fore come to you, M. Ldonard, whose constant
                                attendance upon Her Highness will give you ample
                                opportunities to speak on my behalf. And you are
                                constantly being consulted upon everything relating
                                to dress — your recommendation will no doubt have
                                a decisive effect.' "

                                M. Leonard promised his help. And, indeed,
                                he kept his word, and at the very first opportunity
                                he mentioned the name of Rose Bertin to the
                                Dauphine.
                                " Mile. Rose Bertin !" said Marie - Antoinette.
                                "You are right to mention her to me, for I now
                                remember that the Duchesse de Chartres and the
                                Princesse de Conti have also spoken of her in very
                                high terms. Comtesse de Misery," continued the
                                Dauphine, turning to her first Lady-in- Waiting, " will
                                you please write to Mile. Rose Bertin, and command
                                her presence here to-morrow."

                                     Rose Bertin was punctual, and introduced to
                                Marie-Antoinette according to all the rules of Court
                                etiquette. Marie- Antoinette gave the young milliner
                                an order of 20,000 livres. Thus, according to the
                                author of the " Souvenirs," Rose Bertin became Court
                                milliner of the Dauphine in 1772.
                                   The dates are in
                                all probability exact, but the details of the intro-
                                duction and presentation of Rose Bertin to Marie-
                                Antoinette as given by Leonard are pure invention.
                                Leonard Antie', who enjoyed a considerable reputa-
                                tion, did not live in the Palace of Versailles, as the
                                " Souvenirs " pretend.
                                     He was the hairdresser of
                                Marie-Antoinette, but was in daily attendance upon
                                her. His services were only required on gala-days
                                and special occasions. The daily coiffeur of the
                                Dauphine was Leonard's brother, who was beheaded
                                during the Terror, and consequently could not have
                                written the " Souvenirs," which were compiled at a
                                much later period.
                                    Other dates tend to prove that
                                the whole story of Rose's introduction to the Dauphine
                                by Leonard, who at that moment had absolutely no
                                influence at the Court of Versailles, he having been
                                appointed only in 1779, is devoid of all truth.
                                 These
                                " Souvenirs " contain numerous anecdotes and in-
                                sinuations and allusions to the part played by Marie-
                                Antoinette in various affairs. Rose Bertin is often
                                mixed up with these affairs — as, for instance, that
                                of the masked ball, where, at the suggestion of the
                                Comte d'Artois, the Dauphine was present. Accord-
                                ing to the author of the " Souvenirs," Leonard was
                                ordered to arrange this nocturnal expedition and to
                                provide the costumes.

                                " I want to go to a masked ball," said Marie-
                                Antoinette ; " Leonard will help us. He will arrange
                                with Mile. Bertin about the costume, and we will
                                dress at the Tuileries. We will leave here at mid-
                                night accompanied by the little Marquise de Langeac,
                                and be at the Tuileries at twelve thirty-five.
                                 Rose Bertin will be waiting for us at the Pavilion de Flore ;
                                at one thirty we shall be at the ball, and leave at three
                                o'clock ; and before the clocks strike four we shall
                                be asleep in our beds at Versailles." 
                                 


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