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RES: RES: RES: [Images_of_Marie_Antoinette] Elegant Marie Antoinette 1785 as millions starve!!

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  • Zoroastro Chelli
    Valéria, Thanks very much for your comments, they added a new perspective to my thoughs! So, anyhow, Jan is right, actually every King is compromised with
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 1, 2002
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      Mensagem
      Valéria,
       
      Thanks very much for your comments, they added a new perspective to my thoughs! So, anyhow, Jan is right, actually every King is compromised with charity, eventhough they think about their place in heaven instead of think about the people!!
       
      Do you all know that:
       
      - 8% of the population retain 53% of the global wealth?
      - 1 billion people is illiterate?
      - Death caused by lack of food in Africa and Asia already killed almost the double of the people killed during the World War II?
      - 1,5 billion people live in miserable conditions?
       
      I guess the world today is not different from the past. We have politicians instead of Kings and Queens and they all dissumulate their selfishness and their greed, but they are the same! Of course, I cannot generalize because we have good politicians, but are they really working for our good or for their own interests?
       
      Anca and Jan are right, we have to think about the others to get this world a better place!!
      Thanks for your help Valéria!!
       
      -----Mensagem original-----
      De: Kaoru [mailto:Kaoru_no_kimi@...]
      Enviada em: sábado, 30 de março de 2002 19:29
      Para: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
      Assunto: Re: RES: RES: [Images_of_Marie_Antoinette] Elegant Marie Antoinette 1785 as millions starve!!

      Oh please do not take it personally! I never wanted to ofend you, we just have a debate here and I hope others can join us. I agree with you in many other subjects, I assure you!
       
      HEY PEOPLE WAKE UP AND JOIN US HERE!! EXPRESS YOUR OPINION!!
       
      UTENA>> I've not introduced myself but I'd like to join in the topic ... May I?
       
      I think Le Roi Soleil was really interested on his people when it was good for his image. He did many things for the people, yes, but with second intentions. Did you know that France Finacial Status started to deteriorate during his reign? He was interested more on himself and Versailles (he spent tons of francs to build it, and thank God he did, beacuse it is marvelous!!) than on his people. But yes, you are right he did things for the people.
      Henry IV was a good King also, but as I said, did he really helped the people with no second intentions? I don't know, perhaps he did.
       
      UTENA>> As a historian I may say that be interested on his/her people needs was more a rule than an exception.  For a good catholic charity was an obligation and most of the kings payed attention to this aspect.  You emphasizes the second intentions, well get a good place in Heaven was a common intention.  Obviously some kings/queens were more or less interested in charity affairs.  Concerning specifically to Louis XVI, I should say that he was self councious of the misery and the general economic crisis and tried to less them impact over common people and the monarchy itself.  The great problem was the tradition of French Monarchy and the necessity in maintain the luxuries of the nobility that sustained the splendor of the Monarchy (A look in Norbet Elias and Perry Anderson books would help.). 
       
      I apologize because my English is not as good as I wanted.
       
      Valéria


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    • Janet Fauble
      ... First, I want to thank Zo for the hugs. I appreciate that and needed that. Secondly, Valeria, I hope that you should always free to join in and make any
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 2, 2002
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        --- Zoroastro Chelli <zochelli@...> wrote:
        > Val�ria,
        >
        > Thanks very much for your comments, they added a new
        > perspective to my
        > thoughs! So, anyhow, Jan is right, actually every
        > King is compromised
        > with charity, eventhough they think about their
        > place in heaven instead
        > of think about the people!!
        >
        > Do you all know that:
        >
        > - 8% of the population retain 53% of the global
        > wealth?
        > - 1 billion people is illiterate?
        > - Death caused by lack of food in Africa and Asia
        > already killed almost
        > the double of the people killed during the World War
        > II?
        > - 1,5 billion people live in miserable conditions?
        >
        > I guess the world today is not different from the
        > past. We have
        > politicians instead of Kings and Queens and they all
        > dissumulate their
        > selfishness and their greed, but they are the same!
        > Of course, I cannot
        > generalize because we have good politicians, but are
        > they really working
        > for our good or for their own interests?
        >
        > Anca and Jan are right, we have to think about the
        > others to get this
        > world a better place!!
        > Thanks for your help Val�ria!!
        >
        > Z�
        >
        > -----Mensagem original-----
        > De: Kaoru [mailto:Kaoru_no_kimi@...]
        > Enviada em: s�bado, 30 de mar�o de 2002 19:29
        > Para: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
        > Assunto: Re: RES: RES: [Images_of_Marie_Antoinette]
        > Elegant Marie
        > Antoinette 1785 as millions starve!!
        >
        >
        > From: Zoroastro Chelli <mailto:zochelli@...>
        >
        >
        > Oh please do not take it personally! I never wanted
        > to ofend you, we
        > just have a debate here and I hope others can join
        > us. I agree with you
        > in many other subjects, I assure you!
        >
        > HEY PEOPLE WAKE UP AND JOIN US HERE!! EXPRESS YOUR
        > OPINION!!
        >
        > UTENA>> I've not introduced myself but I'd like to
        > join in the topic ...
        > May I?
        >
        > I think Le Roi Soleil was really interested on his
        > people when it was
        > good for his image. He did many things for the
        > people, yes, but with
        > second intentions. Did you know that France Finacial
        > Status started to
        > deteriorate during his reign? He was interested more
        > on himself and
        > Versailles (he spent tons of francs to build it, and
        > thank God he did,
        > beacuse it is marvelous!!) than on his people. But
        > yes, you are right he
        > did things for the people.
        > Henry IV was a good King also, but as I said, did he
        > really helped the
        > people with no second intentions? I don't know,
        > perhaps he did.
        >
        > UTENA>> As a historian I may say that be interested
        > on his/her people
        > needs was more a rule than an exception. For a good
        > catholic charity
        > was an obligation and most of the kings payed
        > attention to this aspect.
        > You emphasizes the second intentions, well get a
        > good place in Heaven
        > was a common intention. Obviously some kings/queens
        > were more or less
        > interested in charity affairs. Concerning
        > specifically to Louis XVI, I
        > should say that he was self councious of the misery
        > and the general
        > economic crisis and tried to less them impact over
        > common people and the
        > monarchy itself. The great problem was the
        > tradition of French Monarchy
        > and the necessity in maintain the luxuries of the
        > nobility that
        > sustained the splendor of the Monarchy (A look in
        > Norbet Elias and Perry
        > Anderson books would help.).
        >
        > I apologize because my English is not as good as I
        > wanted.
        >
        > Val�ria
        >
        > Dear Valeria, and Zo,


        First, I want to thank Zo for the hugs. I appreciate
        that and needed that.

        Secondly, Valeria, I hope that you should always free
        to join in and make any contribution to enlightening
        the members with your thoughts.

        Thirdly, I usually read all comments and jump in only
        when something really prompts me to make a point.

        Always,

        Jan
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      • fumbling1013@aol.com
        Just to throw in my two cents, we were talking about MA in AP Euro and our teacher was all, She said let them eat cake . She sat there with her elegant
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 2, 2002
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          Just to throw in my two cents, we were talking about MA in AP Euro and our teacher was all, "She said 'let them eat cake'. She sat there with her elegant clothes while people starved."

          I decided to pipe up: "Marie Antoinette did not say that, and she actually did do some things for the people of France."

          Didn't she donate money to starving children or something? I read that somewhere. Maybe I'm thinking HIH Olga of Russia, my other royal obsession. :)

          Lanie
        • Zoroastro Chelli
          Jan, YOU ARE WELCOME, MY DEAR!!! ZÔ ... De: Janet Fauble [mailto:jan_neptune@yahoo.com] Enviada em: terça-feira, 2 de abril de 2002 17:08 Para:
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 2, 2002
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            Jan,

            YOU ARE WELCOME, MY DEAR!!!



            -----Mensagem original-----
            De: Janet Fauble [mailto:jan_neptune@...]
            Enviada em: terça-feira, 2 de abril de 2002 17:08
            Para: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
            Assunto: Re: RES: RES: RES: [Images_of_Marie_Antoinette] Elegant Marie
            Antoinette 1785 as millions starve!!



            --- Zoroastro Chelli <zochelli@...> wrote:
            > Valéria,
            >
            > Thanks very much for your comments, they added a new perspective to my
            > thoughs! So, anyhow, Jan is right, actually every
            > King is compromised
            > with charity, eventhough they think about their
            > place in heaven instead
            > of think about the people!!
            >
            > Do you all know that:
            >
            > - 8% of the population retain 53% of the global
            > wealth?
            > - 1 billion people is illiterate?
            > - Death caused by lack of food in Africa and Asia
            > already killed almost
            > the double of the people killed during the World War
            > II?
            > - 1,5 billion people live in miserable conditions?
            >
            > I guess the world today is not different from the
            > past. We have
            > politicians instead of Kings and Queens and they all dissumulate their
            > selfishness and their greed, but they are the same!
            > Of course, I cannot
            > generalize because we have good politicians, but are
            > they really working
            > for our good or for their own interests?
            >
            > Anca and Jan are right, we have to think about the
            > others to get this
            > world a better place!!
            > Thanks for your help Valéria!!
            >
            > Zô
            >
            > -----Mensagem original-----
            > De: Kaoru [mailto:Kaoru_no_kimi@...]
            > Enviada em: sábado, 30 de março de 2002 19:29
            > Para: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
            > Assunto: Re: RES: RES: [Images_of_Marie_Antoinette]
            > Elegant Marie
            > Antoinette 1785 as millions starve!!
            >
            >
            > From: Zoroastro Chelli <mailto:zochelli@...>
            >
            >
            > Oh please do not take it personally! I never wanted
            > to ofend you, we
            > just have a debate here and I hope others can join
            > us. I agree with you
            > in many other subjects, I assure you!
            >
            > HEY PEOPLE WAKE UP AND JOIN US HERE!! EXPRESS YOUR
            > OPINION!!
            >
            > UTENA>> I've not introduced myself but I'd like to
            > join in the topic ...
            > May I?
            >
            > I think Le Roi Soleil was really interested on his
            > people when it was
            > good for his image. He did many things for the
            > people, yes, but with
            > second intentions. Did you know that France Finacial
            > Status started to
            > deteriorate during his reign? He was interested more
            > on himself and
            > Versailles (he spent tons of francs to build it, and
            > thank God he did,
            > beacuse it is marvelous!!) than on his people. But
            > yes, you are right he
            > did things for the people.
            > Henry IV was a good King also, but as I said, did he
            > really helped the
            > people with no second intentions? I don't know,
            > perhaps he did.
            >
            > UTENA>> As a historian I may say that be interested
            > on his/her people
            > needs was more a rule than an exception. For a good
            > catholic charity
            > was an obligation and most of the kings payed
            > attention to this aspect.
            > You emphasizes the second intentions, well get a
            > good place in Heaven
            > was a common intention. Obviously some kings/queens
            > were more or less
            > interested in charity affairs. Concerning
            > specifically to Louis XVI, I
            > should say that he was self councious of the misery
            > and the general
            > economic crisis and tried to less them impact over
            > common people and the
            > monarchy itself. The great problem was the
            > tradition of French Monarchy
            > and the necessity in maintain the luxuries of the
            > nobility that
            > sustained the splendor of the Monarchy (A look in
            > Norbet Elias and Perry
            > Anderson books would help.).
            >
            > I apologize because my English is not as good as I
            > wanted.
            >
            > Valéria
            >
            > Dear Valeria, and Zo,


            First, I want to thank Zo for the hugs. I appreciate
            that and needed that.

            Secondly, Valeria, I hope that you should always free
            to join in and make any contribution to enlightening
            the members with your thoughts.

            Thirdly, I usually read all comments and jump in only
            when something really prompts me to make a point.

            Always,

            Jan
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
            >
            016061:HM/A=847665/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vbW9uc3RlcjcuZGF0=101
            >
            7527101%3eM=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705016061:HM/A
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            <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egrou
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            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >
            Images_of_Marie_Antoinette-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > Terms of Service
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >
            >
            >


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          • Zoroastro Chelli
            Lanie, As per my opinion, your teacher is wrong. MA never said that. I have to find the right book and right author to tell you (I have many books here!!), but
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 2, 2002
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              Mensagem
              Lanie,
               
              As per my opinion, your teacher is wrong. MA never said that. I have to find the right book and right author to tell you (I have many books here!!), but he did an extensive research on that and found that this quote was said by a wife of LOUIS XIV (Louis 14th) many years before MA's birth.
              Yes, MA has donate money to charity, as we had a confirmation by our historian friend Valéria. I cannot be precise at this moment, I mean, to whom and when SHE donated money, but I will try to find something.
               
              -----Mensagem original-----
              De: fumbling1013@... [mailto:fumbling1013@...]
              Enviada em: terça-feira, 2 de abril de 2002 17:15
              Para: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
              Assunto: Re: RES: RES: RES: [Images_of_Marie_Antoinette] Elegant Marie Antoinette 1785 as millions starve!!

              Just to throw in my two cents, we were talking about MA in AP Euro and our teacher was all, "She said 'let them eat cake'.  She sat there with her elegant clothes while people starved."

              I decided to pipe up: "Marie Antoinette did not say that, and she actually did do some things for the people of France."

              Didn't she donate money to starving children or something?  I read that somewhere.  Maybe I'm thinking HIH Olga of Russia, my other royal obsession. :)

              Lanie


              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              Images_of_Marie_Antoinette-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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            • fumbling1013@aol.com
              Thanks, Zo! I knew it was wrong. I don t like it when people do that stuff.
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 2, 2002
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                Thanks, Zo! I knew it was wrong. I don't like it when people do that stuff.
              • ax71489
                ... look at Marie Antoinette and Louis sitting there in their wonderful palace, in those elegant clothes, while over 23 million people were starving! ... girl
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 3, 2002
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                  --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@y..., "ancax2001" <ancax2001@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hello! Have you seen pictures 9 and 10 in 4th album ? Just
                  look at Marie Antoinette and Louis sitting there in their
                  wonderful palace, in those elegant clothes, while over 23 million
                  people were starving!
                  > I must admit I just love the Queen's dress, but I guess any
                  girl would... Of course, I don't believe she really said that
                  "Let them eat cake" thing, but neither she nor her husband didn't
                  do much for those people.
                  > Besides I think the royal couple's conversation was very poor.
                  What could they talk about? Their son maybe (I think he was 2 in
                  1785)-But howe much time did they spend with him?
                  Marie Antoinette's affairs ? -
                  > haha, certainly not. Politics? I doubt it...
                  > Well, what do you think?
                  > Anca

                  Very interesting comments by Anca.

                  Looking at the album "1785-1788", pictures 9 and 10, the Queen
                  is indeed most elegant and agreat contrast with the poverty of
                  much of the French population at that time.

                  In looking at those images and others in the "1785-1788" photo
                  album, do others in the group feel outrage or anger at the
                  splendor of Marie Antoinette at a time of much suffering?

                  Anca is certainly not alone. The French citizenry of the time
                  loathed Marie Antoinette for her wealth and ostentation.
                  In Album "1787" picture 1, "Marie Antoinette and her Children",
                  generally regarded as a masterpiece by Vigee LeBrun - the lovely
                  portrait had to be removed from the salon because of threat of
                  outrage.

                  This comment by Anca has sparked interest, hope others for and
                  against will add their posts and Anca too, please comment
                  further.

                  Axel
                  continued....


                  From: fumbling1013@... Date: Tue Apr 2, 2002 12:15 pmSubject:
                  Re: RES: RES: RES: [Images_of_Marie_Antoinette] Elegant Marie
                  Antoinette 1785 as millions starve!!

                  Just to throw in my two cents, we were talking about MA in AP Euro
                  and our teacher was all, "She said 'let them eat cake'. She sat
                  there with her elegant clothes while people starved."

                  I decided to pipe up: "Marie Antoinette did not say that, and she
                  actually did do some things for the people of France.

                  "Didn't she donate money to starving children or something? I read
                  that somewhere. Maybe I'm thinking HIH Olga of Russia, my other
                  royal obsession.

                  :)Lanie


                  Lanie - good for you to pipe up. It is generally agreed that
                  Marie Antoinette did NOT say "Let Them Eat Cake". Yet, her name
                  is forever associated with that quote world wide. She did
                  provide funds to charity and if you pick up Fraser's current
                  biography you should find instances of the Queen's charitable
                  acts.

                  On the other hand, the Queen was very interested in her clothes,
                  jewels, gambling and in her properties - the hameau etc. Thus,
                  Marie Antoinette was often short of cash and not in a position
                  to contribute to charities as she may have wished.

                  Axel
                • seekercorp
                  Interesting point ancax. It makes you wander what royalty other than sex had in common with each other; it seems to be more or a basic genetic engineering
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 10, 2002
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                    Interesting point ancax. It makes you wander what royalty other than
                    sex had in common with each other; it seems to be more or a basic
                    genetic engineering scheme to produce the "perfect" royalty . Though
                    the biggest problem was their techniques are very hit and miss.

                    Imagine what royalty would have been like with a few biologists and
                    genetic engineers.

                    Seeker

                    --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@y..., "ancax2001" <ancax2001@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Hello! Have you seen pictures 9 and 10 in 4th album ? Just look
                    at
                    > Marie Antoinette and Louis sitting there in their wonderful palace,
                    in
                    > those elegant clothes, while over 23 million people were starving!
                    > I must admit I just love the Queen's dress, but I guess any girl
                    > would... Of course, I don't believe she really said that "Let them
                    eat
                    > cake" thing, but neither she nor her husband didn't do much for
                    those
                    > people.
                    > Besides I think the royal couple's conversation was very poor.
                    What
                    > could they talk about? Their son maybe (I think he was 2 in 1785)-
                    But
                    > howe much time did they spend with him? Marie Antoinette's
                    affairs ? -
                    > haha, certainly not. Politics? I doubt it...
                    > Well, what do you think?
                    > Anca
                  • fumbling1013@aol.com
                    I don t think that there ever was an example of perfect royalty . There definitely were some cute kiddos out of the mix, though (including MA s children...I
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 10, 2002
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                      I don't think that there ever was an example of "perfect royalty". There definitely were some cute kiddos out of the mix, though (including MA's children...I want to squeeze their little cheeks).

                      I'm quiet about this little discussion about MA's breasts because the album is restricted to me, why I don't know, and it's verrrry curious. It's interesting that people were like that...yeesh, golden dildo, that's something!

                      - Lanie
                    • sansleeder
                      Interesting thought about the Queen and King living in luxury while the people starved. Even though they are dressed rather well in the pic at a time when the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 13, 2002
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                        Interesting thought about the Queen and King living in luxury while
                        the people starved. Even though they are dressed rather well in the
                        pic at a time when the people were to be starving still isn't enough
                        to go by to judge the true feelings of what was going on at France
                        during the time. That is what I don't like about history. Even
                        though we have written documents, we will never understand the
                        thoughts of the people during any historic event that has taken place
                        or will take place. Therefore, when I post what I think about the
                        picture will be nothing more than my opinion that some may not agree
                        with and start criticizing it. I only state this because I have been
                        criticized before on this board by others, but that is fine, but I
                        hate it when the one who does the criticizing acts like they are the
                        only one who really knew what went on during any event. However, I
                        promised the founder of this club that I would post to this question
                        and I am a man of my word. So here is my comment on the pics.
                        For Anca did state a very interesting question. Perhaps they
                        didn't care what the people thought or went through or maybe they
                        were just caught up in their own lives to realize what was going on
                        around them. They were human and people do get caught up in their
                        own worries regardless of who they are or what power they have. Then
                        again, pictures or depictions of certain events by actors or
                        paintings are and never will be enough to give us the experience of
                        the actual event. But for my thoughts, I think if I was a person in
                        France during that time that I would have been angry at the monarchy
                        enough to start a revolution. But still it doesn't mean that the
                        queen might have been a royal snob that deserved to have the people
                        revolt and behead her years later. Then again maybe she was a snobby
                        person who even people today would not have mind watching her head
                        fall.
                        Again, I state this because I am tired of people acting like
                        they were actually there during the French revolution or any other
                        event enough to tell me how I should have really felt. Or better
                        yet, enough to tell me what type of person Marie Antoinette or any
                        other historical figure really was, because how do they know? By
                        some written statement or documents that don't give the whole
                        picture. So if anyone is upset by my post is fine with me, but who
                        is to say who is right or who is wrong when talking about a
                        historical event. So for the ones trying to tell me how things
                        really were make me sick. No offense in saying that but that is my
                        true feelings and one reason I dropped away from this site. I did
                        come back to see some information about "Affair of the Necklace", but
                        had no luck. Again, do I want to see the movie? yes, but do I really
                        care if it depicted the way things really were? NO, because no movie
                        or even book can do that. I just simply would like to watch it for
                        entertainment value and that is that. Who is to say that the
                        movies are correct or even the school text books are correct in
                        everything they print. Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@y..., "ancax2001"
                        <ancax2001@y...> wrote:
                        > Hello! Have you seen pictures 9 and 10 in 4th album ? Just look
                        at
                        > Marie Antoinette and Louis sitting there in their wonderful palace,
                        in
                        > those elegant clothes, while over 23 million people were starving!
                        > I must admit I just love the Queen's dress, but I guess any girl
                        > would... Of course, I don't believe she really said that "Let them
                        eat
                        > cake" thing, but neither she nor her husband didn't do much for
                        those
                        > people.
                        > Besides I think the royal couple's conversation was very poor.
                        What
                        > could they talk about? Their son maybe (I think he was 2 in 1785)-
                        But
                        > howe much time did they spend with him? Marie Antoinette's
                        affairs ? -
                        > haha, certainly not. Politics? I doubt it...
                        > Well, what do you think?
                        > Anca
                      • Janet Fauble
                        ... Anca, Good to let off steam now and then. But then, how do you know whether anyone could or could not know what happened then? Part of the tragedy in
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 15, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- sansleeder <sansleeder@...> wrote:
                          > Interesting thought about the Queen and King living
                          > in luxury while
                          > the people starved. Even though they are dressed
                          > rather well in the
                          > pic at a time when the people were to be starving
                          > still isn't enough
                          > to go by to judge the true feelings of what was
                          > going on at France
                          > during the time. That is what I don't like about
                          > history. Even
                          > though we have written documents, we will never
                          > understand the
                          > thoughts of the people during any historic event
                          > that has taken place
                          > or will take place. Therefore, when I post what I
                          > think about the
                          > picture will be nothing more than my opinion that
                          > some may not agree
                          > with and start criticizing it. I only state this
                          > because I have been
                          > criticized before on this board by others, but that
                          > is fine, but I
                          > hate it when the one who does the criticizing acts
                          > like they are the
                          > only one who really knew what went on during any
                          > event. However, I
                          > promised the founder of this club that I would post
                          > to this question
                          > and I am a man of my word. So here is my comment on
                          > the pics.
                          > For Anca did state a very interesting question.
                          > Perhaps they
                          > didn't care what the people thought or went through
                          > or maybe they
                          > were just caught up in their own lives to realize
                          > what was going on
                          > around them. They were human and people do get
                          > caught up in their
                          > own worries regardless of who they are or what power
                          > they have. Then
                          > again, pictures or depictions of certain events by
                          > actors or
                          > paintings are and never will be enough to give us
                          > the experience of
                          > the actual event. But for my thoughts, I think if I
                          > was a person in
                          > France during that time that I would have been angry
                          > at the monarchy
                          > enough to start a revolution. But still it doesn't
                          > mean that the
                          > queen might have been a royal snob that deserved to
                          > have the people
                          > revolt and behead her years later. Then again maybe
                          > she was a snobby
                          > person who even people today would not have mind
                          > watching her head
                          > fall.
                          > Again, I state this because I am tired of
                          > people acting like
                          > they were actually there during the French
                          > revolution or any other
                          > event enough to tell me how I should have really
                          > felt. Or better
                          > yet, enough to tell me what type of person Marie
                          > Antoinette or any
                          > other historical figure really was, because how do
                          > they know? By
                          > some written statement or documents that don't give
                          > the whole
                          > picture. So if anyone is upset by my post is fine
                          > with me, but who
                          > is to say who is right or who is wrong when talking
                          > about a
                          > historical event. So for the ones trying to tell me
                          > how things
                          > really were make me sick. No offense in saying that
                          > but that is my
                          > true feelings and one reason I dropped away from
                          > this site. I did
                          > come back to see some information about "Affair of
                          > the Necklace", but
                          > had no luck. Again, do I want to see the movie?
                          > yes, but do I really
                          > care if it depicted the way things really were? NO,
                          > because no movie
                          > or even book can do that. I just simply would like
                          > to watch it for
                          > entertainment value and that is that. Who is to
                          > say that the
                          > movies are correct or even the school text books are
                          > correct in
                          > everything they print.
                          > Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@y..., "ancax2001"
                          > <ancax2001@y...> wrote:
                          > > Hello! Have you seen pictures 9 and 10 in 4th
                          > album ? Just look
                          > at
                          > > Marie Antoinette and Louis sitting there in their
                          > wonderful palace,
                          > in
                          > > those elegant clothes, while over 23 million
                          > people were starving!
                          > > I must admit I just love the Queen's dress, but
                          > I guess any girl
                          > > would... Of course, I don't believe she really
                          > said that "Let them
                          > eat
                          > > cake" thing, but neither she nor her husband
                          > didn't do much for
                          > those
                          > > people.
                          > > Besides I think the royal couple's conversation
                          > was very poor.
                          > What
                          > > could they talk about? Their son maybe (I think he
                          > was 2 in 1785)-
                          > But
                          > > howe much time did they spend with him? Marie
                          > Antoinette's
                          > affairs ? -
                          > > haha, certainly not. Politics? I doubt it...
                          > > Well, what do you think?



                          Anca,

                          Good to let off steam now and then. But then, how do
                          you know whether anyone could or could not know what
                          happened then? Part of the tragedy in life is not
                          believing the truth when one has it right in front of
                          them. Just keep an open mind, eyes open, ears open,
                          and consider all possibilities. IN the end, the truth
                          will win out.

                          Actually, I am not so interested in whether the King
                          and Queen were living up to the image that King Darius
                          had created or not. Keeping up with the JOnes was
                          just as common then as it is now.

                          The Royal family was insulated from the life of the
                          commoner. Sure he saw it, but which of us really
                          knows what a baboon thinks, or a snake thinks, or a
                          monkey thinks when we go through the zoo. None of us
                          does, and neither did the kings or queens know what
                          the common folk felt at all.

                          It is a fact that some kings, queens, and princesses
                          did disguise themselves to pass among the common folk.
                          That was rather commonplace thing to do, mostly to
                          keep abreast of the plots underfoot, and to learn
                          firsthand the needs of the people, and the
                          undercurrent of agitation.

                          While the masses did starve, it might be a good idea
                          to read some material on the times so that one would
                          understand better the lifestyle of the commonfolk. A
                          great book which I love is The Wife of Martin Guerre
                          by Janet Lewis. It is the best depiction of France
                          from the point of view of the ordinary man.

                          As ever,

                          Jan
                          > > Anca
                          >
                          >


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