Re: [ISO8601] And on a lighter note
- I whole-heartedly agree with both writers. These are exactly my sentiments and information about the usage of ISO 8601 date and time. As a language instructor, I try to carry the standard one step further and use it orally as well. However, there are no standards or widely accepted rules for oral 24-h time expressions .Therefore, I follow what sounds the most logical to my ears, the airport announcements in Amsterdam and a few other European cities. Most of them avoid the obsolete "Twenty-four hundred hours" Simply there aren't hundreds of hours in a day. Instead, I hear "Zero hour zero minutes" sometimes augmented by the words "midnight exactly".This discussion however important is often viewed by the techno-oriented members as irrelevant to an ISO 8601 group. Some of the regular correspondents of the group urged me to use another forum for pondering the ways and means of oral date and time expressions.Does anyone know of such a discussion group?BUDAI A.E. Xinzhu City, Taiwan2004 09 01 (We) 08:38----- Original Message -----From: ivy19991231@...Sent: 2004 08 01 (Wednesday) 08:05Subject: Re: [ISO8601] And on a lighter noteThat is a nice letter. However, it's actually MM/DD/YYYY that's used in only a few places in the world (off the top of my head, they are: USA, Canada (in words only), Panama, Phillippines (sp?), wherever Swahili is spoken, and maybe one or two other places in the world). It's DD/MM/YYYY that appears to be used a whole lot in our world today. Even though many countries (including those MM/DD/YYYY-using ones I mentioend above) signed up for ISO 8601 in their national standards, it appears that these places don't seem to be using it in much of daily life, like SI (metric) in the US.
You're doing right by teaching your daughter to use YYYY-MM-DD. Try to do the same with 24-hour time as well. It's everyone else that has to catch up. On any [paper] form that forces me to use a certain date format, like the ones that haveboxes or indicators saying something like 'Date (mm/dd/yy):', I would just abbreviate the letters and use the full year in the box, like 'Sep/17/1985' or '17/Sep/1985'. This way, no ambiguity is introduced. Where I have to sign and date it, I usually am free to use YYYY-MM-DD and I usually include the time, in 24-hour format, along with that. Just watch what your school tries to indoctrinate (sp?) into your child, as some places can be aggressive. I, even being in the liberal school I attended primary school in, literally said, 'don't write the date like that', to my '1999/06/18' format. Anyone have any ideas of what to say when and if someone says something like that? If someone were to ask, 'Why do you do your dates that way?', or similar, a child may be looked highly upon if a response relating to ISO 8601 and directory sorting comes out.
At 2004-08-31 22:00 (UTC+0700), you wrote:
searching Google for conection between ISO8601 and education -
There is no apparent acceptance yet.
So, I wrote my daughter's teacher the following note.
Hi Ms Rini,
I would like to clarify an issue
which my daughter will probably raise in class:
The way you write the date in her homework materials
differs from the format I will be teaching her at home.
The format you use at school (d-m-yyyy)
is a standard used in only a few areas aound the world.
Because my daughter is an expatriate
exposed to many different cultures in her life,
I will be teaching her the international date-time format.
The format YYYY.mm.dd+hh:mm:ss is what I will teach her.
This format, a form of the ISO 8601, orders date components
from left to right from most significant to least significant digits.
This format is coherent with global mathematical practices
of presenting quantities decreasing in value from left to right.
The mathematical basis is centuries old and global in use,
whereas the perception of time as a continuum is rather recent.
Time is quantifiable in the same manner as dimensional units of distance
and deserves the coherence of this standard,
which will (in a few decades) eventually yield to a system
more linear like the TAI system or the Tinstant system of time representation.
The ISO 8601 format is present in
almost all communications systems these days,
as you can see in internet time-stamps, GPS timestamps,
as well as timestamps in most popular handphones.
The old formats, day-month-year and month-day-year
are provincial holdovers from days of yore
when people measured time by events of superstition and ritual chance
rather than by quantification by scientific method.
I only bring this to your attention so that you will
not be confused if my daughter brings the matter up in class.
I realize your school probably has set standards regarding this matter
and eventually those who set these standards may someday
realize that there is in fact a global time presentation standard,
but that instant is probably in the distant future.
I understand all to well how long and involved the
matters of developing educational standards are,
and I hope that someday this will become accepted practice
in the school, but change always takes time.
Paul E. Anderson