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My new page: Numbers, Dates and Time (ISO 8601 included) (also new email)

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  • jusjih
    While ISO 8601 is language-independent, it cannot replace dates or times in any languages. I have created a new page Numbers, Dates and Time in English,
    Message 1 of 6 , May 31, 2003
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      While ISO 8601 is language-independent, it cannot replace dates or
      times in any languages. I have created a new page "Numbers, Dates and
      Time in English, French and Chinese" at
      http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/num-iso8601.html that includes some
      formats of ISO 8601.

      As some formats of ISO 8601, such as --MM, -W-D and --MM-DD, may not
      be readily understandable by certain people, use them ONLY if the
      other party knows what they mean. For example, Americans generally
      understand --MM-DD, such as --06-01 for June 1, but Europeans might
      still regard it as 6 January.

      Due to excessive spams, I have changed my email to accept posts from
      this group. Effecitve immediately, please STOP EMAILING to my old
      emails such as jusjih @ hotmail . com and jusjih @ yahoo . com . They
      have too many spams that I want to abandon them. Any messages to them
      may be left unread.

      If anyone wants to comment on my trilingual page of Numbers, Dates
      and Time, please reply to me directly (new email here). The page will
      expand when I have time and information.

      Justin
    • Tex Texin
      Justin, I have a page on Japanese Emperor dates: http://www.i18nguy.com/l10n/emperor-date.html But I disagree with your premise that there are situations where
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 1, 2003
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        Justin,
        I have a page on Japanese Emperor dates:
        http://www.i18nguy.com/l10n/emperor-date.html


        But I disagree with your premise that there are situations where 8601 can't be
        used, having to do with language.
        You can always use 8601, you just need to let people know that it is 8601 or
        if they are non-technical or standards oriented, let them know the format.
        (e.g. "All dates on this page are yyyy-mm-dd.")

        jusjih wrote:
        >
        > While ISO 8601 is language-independent, it cannot replace dates or
        > times in any languages. I have created a new page "Numbers, Dates and
        > Time in English, French and Chinese" at
        > http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/num-iso8601.html that includes some
        > formats of ISO 8601.
        >
        > As some formats of ISO 8601, such as --MM, -W-D and --MM-DD, may not
        > be readily understandable by certain people, use them ONLY if the
        > other party knows what they mean. For example, Americans generally
        > understand --MM-DD, such as --06-01 for June 1, but Europeans might
        > still regard it as 6 January.
        ...
        >
        > Justin

        --
        -------------------------------------------------------------
        Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@...
        Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com

        XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com
        Making e-Business Work Around the World
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      • Adam
        Do you plan to make a proposal for the ISO number standard that uses 123 456 789.012 345 and 123 456 789,012 345 for numbers which is the space ( ) as a
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 1, 2003
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                   Do you plan to make a proposal for the ISO number standard that uses "123 456 789.012 345" and "123 456 789,012 345" for numbers which is the space ( ) as a thousands separator and either a comma (,) or a full stop (.) as a decimal sign? Are these the only number formats allowed? Are numbers WITHOUT thousands separators allowed? The reason why I ask this question is because just because you can do non-breaking spaces in word processing programs (how do you do this in OpenOffice.org 1.0.3.1?), you can't do them everywhere it's possible to type. In those places where you can't do non-breaking spaces, using regular spaces can result in problems with numbers that run onto the next line. If the number 10 500 runs onto another line, it may look like two separate numbers. In fact, to many people, that's what it will look like. Using no separator, this problem is less likely to happen.

                   Now, I been wondering about ISO's YYYY-DDD format. Did they choose between the 000--364 (or 365 on leap years) range and 001--365 (or 366 on leap years) range? I've found that starting at 000 is easier than 001 because you can do simple arithmetic for subtracting/adding days through year boundaries. Another reason is because even if days and years aren't used, if hours, minutes, or even seconds elapsed since the beginning of the year are used, when converted into days, hours, minutes, and seconds, the result's exactly right.

                   As far as the truncated ISO 8601 formats are concerned, I suggest never using them. They are a breeding ground for confusion. Use only full YYYY-MM-DD dates and times, in their extended form. This is especially true for times which show seconds (look at "020406". Is that a truncated date or time? This must be the reason for the T that comes right before the time. In my opinion, it isn't needed in complete representations like 1999-12-31 23:59:59 as the separators tell you what's a date and time).

                   For the seconds in French, wouldn't it go the same way you have it for minutes but, adding the seconds and the words for minutes and seconds in? Also, wouldn't a decimal part of a time be said the same way as a regular decimal number?

          At 2003-06-01 06:59 (UTC +0000), you wrote:

          While ISO 8601 is language-independent, it cannot replace dates or
          times in any languages. I have created a new page "Numbers, Dates and
          Time in English, French and Chinese" at
          http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/num-iso8601.html that includes some
          formats of ISO 8601.

          As some formats of ISO 8601, such as --MM, -W-D and --MM-DD, may not
          be readily understandable by certain people, use them ONLY if the
          other party knows what they mean. For example, Americans generally
          understand --MM-DD, such as --06-01 for June 1, but Europeans might
          still regard it as 6 January.

          Due to excessive spams, I have changed my email to accept posts from
          this group. Effecitve immediately, please STOP EMAILING to my old
          emails such as jusjih @ hotmail . com and jusjih @ yahoo . com . They
          have too many spams that I want to abandon them. Any messages to them
          may be left unread.

          If anyone wants to comment on my trilingual page of Numbers, Dates
          and Time, please reply to me directly (new email here). The page will
          expand when I have time and information.

          Justin


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        • g1smd_amsat_org
          ... [2003-06-01] This definition for number format has already been in the ISO 31 standard for the last 30-odd years. Cheers, Ian. [2003-06-01]
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 1, 2003
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            --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, Adam wrote:


            > Do you plan to make a proposal for the ISO number standard that
            > uses "123 456 789.012 345" and "123 456 789,012 345" for numbers
            > which is the space ( ) as a thousands separator and either a
            > comma (,) or a full stop (.) as a decimal sign? Are these the only
            > number formats allowed? Are numbers WITHOUT thousands separators
            > allowed?




            [2003-06-01]



            This definition for number format has already been in the ISO 31
            standard for the last 30-odd years.



            Cheers,

            Ian.



            [2003-06-01]
          • jusjih
            ... 8601 can t be ... is 8601 or ... format. ... You may have misunderstood. I did not say that there are situations where 8601 can t be used. YYYY-MM-DD need
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 1, 2003
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              --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, Tex Texin <tex@i...> wrote:
              ...
              > But I disagree with your premise that there are situations where
              8601 can't be
              > used, having to do with language.
              > You can always use 8601, you just need to let people know that it
              is 8601 or
              > if they are non-technical or standards oriented, let them know the
              format.
              > (e.g. "All dates on this page are yyyy-mm-dd.")

              You may have misunderstood. I did not say that there are situations
              where 8601 can't be used. YYYY-MM-DD need not be explained
              everywhere, but some reduced or truncated formats may not be easily
              understood. See 4.9 of ISO 8601 about MUTUAL AGREEMENT. Suppose I
              write these dates, how would you interprete them? (They ARE supported
              by ISO 8601.)

              01-02-03
              -01-02
              -01
              --02-03
              --02
              ---03

              Justin
            • Tex Texin
              I understood you. If you send me truncated dates, and don t tell me the format, then we don t have a mutual agreement.... My suggestion is to add somewhere,
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 1, 2003
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                I understood you. If you send me truncated dates, and don't tell me the
                format, then we don't have a mutual agreement....

                My suggestion is to add somewhere, either alongside each date, or as a
                footnote on the page, the format is mm-dd, or whatever.

                But I agree with the person who wrote, why truncate at all. Just use the full
                format.

                However, there is no instance, where french, chinese or other language-based
                date formats must be used instead.
                Yours is a nice web page, it's useful to some people, hopefully not to anyone
                on this list! ;-)

                (Justin, just teasing. After all I have a Japanese date page. I am so ashamed.
                ;-) )

                tex

                jusjih wrote:
                >
                > --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, Tex Texin <tex@i...> wrote:
                > ...
                > > But I disagree with your premise that there are situations where
                > 8601 can't be
                > > used, having to do with language.
                > > You can always use 8601, you just need to let people know that it
                > is 8601 or
                > > if they are non-technical or standards oriented, let them know the
                > format.
                > > (e.g. "All dates on this page are yyyy-mm-dd.")
                >
                > You may have misunderstood. I did not say that there are situations
                > where 8601 can't be used. YYYY-MM-DD need not be explained
                > everywhere, but some reduced or truncated formats may not be easily
                > understood. See 4.9 of ISO 8601 about MUTUAL AGREEMENT. Suppose I
                > write these dates, how would you interprete them? (They ARE supported
                > by ISO 8601.)
                >
                > 01-02-03
                > -01-02
                > -01
                > --02-03
                > --02
                > ---03
                >
                > Justin
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                >
                >
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                --
                -------------------------------------------------------------
                Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@...
                Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com

                XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com
                Making e-Business Work Around the World
                -------------------------------------------------------------
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