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[ODP] Re: AW: EME Database.

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  • g1smd@amsat.org
    [2002-Feb-10] I recently wrote to you about Date Formats on your web site at: . ... It is difficult to decipher these dates. Applying
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 10, 2002
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      [2002-Feb-10]



      I recently wrote to you about Date Formats on your web site
      at: <http://www.hb9q.ch/>.


      You had data in the 432 MHz section like this:

      > 1 DK3WG 16x27el LY, kW 432 377 09.12.00
      > 2 JA4BLC 20ft dish, 2-3CX800A7 432 261 01.06.30
      > 3 VK3UM 432 236 30.10.01
      > 12 KJ7F 4 X 33 K1FO - 800 W 432 41 30.10.01
      > 13 DL5LF 2x8,5wl 9BV, 1kw, FT847 432 20 01.10.15
      > 14 K6JEY FT847, 500watts 432 13 09.12.00
      > 15 KO7N 4 x K1FO-25s 432 9 01.07.27
      > 15 W3KJ 6x25fo (7.3wl), 1.5KW 432 9 08.07.00

      It is difficult to decipher these dates. Applying DD.MM.YY
      to all of them is obviously incorrect. Most Europeans have
      written DD.MM.YY, whilst most Americans have used MM.DD.YY
      and some people from Asia have used YY.MM.DD date formats.

      A few other people have also used YY.MM.DD here. A few US
      operators have used DD.MM.YY, or YY.MM.DD formats. Any date
      with YY <= 12, MM <= 12, and DD <= 12 is not possible to
      decode. This data should all be re-written using a four
      digit year, and should all now be arranged with the same
      element ordering. Using the YYYY-MM-DD format complies
      with all International, National, and many recent Internet
      Standards, whilst avoiding any ambiguity between the old
      DD.MM.YYYY and MM.DD.YYYY formats.



      In your latest update, you have applied DD.MM.YYYY to all of
      these dates, and this means that there are now many mistakes:

      > 1 DK3WG 16x27el LY, kW 432 377 09.12.2000
      > 2 JA4BLC 20ft dish, 2-3CX800A7 432 261 01.06.1930
      > 3 VK3UM 432 236 30.10.2001
      > 12 KJ7F 4 X 33 K1FO - 800 W 432 41 30.10.2001
      > 13 DL5LF 2x8,5wl 9BV, 1kw, FT847 432 20 01.10.2015
      > 14 K6JEY FT847, 500watts 432 13 09.12.2000
      > 15 KO7N 4 x K1FO-25s 432 9 01.07.2027
      > 15 W3KJ 6x25fo (7.3wl), 1.5KW 432 9 08.07.2000

      The 1930, 2015 and 2027 dates are obviously the wrong year, and
      you have mixed up which elements are the Year, the Month, and
      the Day. Other data may have the correct Year, but you may have
      reversed the Month and Day from what was intended.



      I would read the original data like this: [YYYY-MM-DD]
      > 1 DK3WG 09.12.00 is probably DD.MM.YY but [2000-12-09]
      could also possibly be decoded as MM.DD.YY [2000-09-12]
      > 2 JA4BLC 01.06.30 is probably YY.MM.DD [2001-06-30]
      > 3 VK3UM 30.10.01 is probably DD.MM.YY [2001-10-30]
      > 12 KJ7F 30.10.01 is probably DD.MM.YY [2001-10-30]
      > 13 DL5LF 01.10.15 is probably YY.MM.DD [2001-10-15]
      > 14 K6JEY 09.12.00 is probably MM.DD.YY but [2000-09-12]
      could also possibly be decoded as DD.MM.YY [2000-12-09]
      > 15 KO7N 01.07.27 is probably YY.MM.DD even [2001-07-27]
      though people in the US often used MM.DD.YY
      > 15 W3KJ 08.07.00 is probably MM.DD.YY but [2000-08-07]
      could also possibly be decoded as DD.MM.YY [2000-07-08]


      You should rearrange all data in YYYY-MM-DD order, as shown
      on web sites like: <http://www.kirsta.com/radio/dxrec.htm>,
      and in my corrected example above.


      Several people that submitted data have used the YY.MM.DD date
      format. They are already aware that the DD.MM.YY and MM.DD.YY
      date formats are ambiguous when both the values MM <= 12 and
      DD <= 12, which happens for the first twelve days in every month.

      This should be a big hint that many people are already using,
      and comfortable with, the YYYY-MM-DD date format.

      So, for the years where YY > 31 or YY = 00 the YY.MM.DD date
      format is the only non-ambiguous choice. For 2001 onwards,
      when YY >= 01 and YY <=31 you must always use all four digits
      for the Year in order to be able to distinguish YY.MM.DD from
      DD.MM.YY and from MM.DD.YY; also noting that there are major
      problems when more than one date element has a value of 12 or
      less, and when all elements are expressed only as two digits.

      A date like 2001-02-03 is always read as YYYY-MM-DD; there is
      no other option. The Year as the First element, and with a
      four-digit year, is a big clue that the date can only be read
      as YYYY-MM-DD.

      Date formats like YY.DD.MM and MM.YY.DD and DD.YY.MM are NOT
      permitted or used anywhere on the planet.

      Please conform your data to YYYY-MM-DD, as defined in the
      ISO 8601:1988 and EN 28601:1992 and ISO 8601:2000 standards.



      There is also information about this at:

      <http://www.kirsta.com/radio/iso_8601.htm>.

      <http://www.nitehawk.com/rasmit/eme1098.html>.

      Discussion About the ISO 8601 Standard (YahooGroups):
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iso8601/>.

      Implementation of the ISO 8601 Standard around the world -
      a list of countries around the world that have adopted the
      ISO 8601 standard:
      <http://www.qsl.net/g1smd/isoimp.htm>.

      ISO 8601 Dates: What They Are and Why They're Good -
      University of Illinois at Chicago in USA:
      <http://www.uic.edu/depts/accc/software/isodates/isocontents.html>.

      Using the ISO Date Format on Personal Computers:
      <http://www.its.monash.edu.au/twp/windows/isodate/>.

      Date and Time - Week Numbers - by Peter J Haas in Germany:
      <http://home.t-online.de/home/PeterJHaas/DateTime/WeekNumber_en.htm>.

      Date and Time on the Internet - Timestamps - Chris Newman:
      <http://community.roxen.com/developers/idocs/drafts/draft-ietf-impp-datetime
      -05.html>.

      International Standard Date and Time Notation - by Markus Kuhn.
      <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html>.

      Info on ISO 8601, the date and time representation standard:
      <http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/iso8601.html>.

      Setting up your PC to use the Year-Month-Day date format:
      <http://metric1.org/windtset.htm>.

      Setting up your Mac to use the Year-Month-Day date format:
      <http://metric1.org/macdtset.htm>.

      International Date Format Campaign - by Steve Adams:
      <http://www.saqqara.demon.co.uk/datefmt.htm>.

      ISO 8601 Date and Time - Converting and Implementing:
      <http://www.pvv.org/~nsaa/ISO8601.html>.

      ISO 8601 Date/Time Representations - A simple introduction
      to ISO 8601 date and time formats - University of Wellington
      in New Zealand:
      <http://www.mcs.vuw.ac.nz/technical/software/SGML/doc/iso8601/ISO8601.html>.

      Discussion of formats for expressing dates, with particular
      reference to the ISO 8601 date format - by Peter Meyer:
      <http://serendipity.magnet.ch/hermetic/cal_stud/formats.htm>.

      W3C Date and Time Formats - A Note concerning usage of ISO 8601
      on the Internet - by Misha Wolf and Charles Wicksteed:
      <http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime>.

      ISO Date/Time Formats:
      <http://www.lise.jp/datetime.html>.

      Standards for Representing Dates - University of California at Berkeley:
      <http://y2k.berkeley.edu/computers/fixpcs/issues/date-standards.html>.

      The Best Of Dates, The Worst Of Dates:
      <http://www.exit109.com/~ghealton/y2k/yrexamples.html>.

      ISO 8601: the Right Format for Dates:
      <http://www.uic.edu/year2000/datefmt.html>.

      Writing for an International Readership:
      <http://www.betweenborders.com/international/>.

      The Mathematics of the ISO 8601 Calendar:
      <http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/calendar/isocalendar.htm>.

      Finally, proof that ISO 8601 reaches the parts that
      other date formats just cannot reach:
      <http://www.marsengineering.com/Calendar/Formats.asp>.

      The Open Directory Project: Standards: ISO 8601:
      <http://dmoz.org/Science/Reference/Standards/Individual_Standards/ISO_8601/>.


      Is this not enough evidence to show that YYYY-MM-DD is the way
      that it should be done?



      Cheers,

      Ian.


      <mail://g1smd@...>

      <http://www.qsl.net/g1smd/>
      <http://home.freeuk.net/g1smd/>
      <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dstrange/y2k.htm>
      <http://dmoz.org/Science/Reference/Standards/Individual_Standards/ISO_8601/>

      <ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/ham/misc/g1smd.zip>
      <ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/>


      [2002-02-10]

      .end
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