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Re: [ISO8601] Congress Changing Daylight Savings Time Dates

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  • Tex Texin
    thanks for posting John. The info is useful to members of this list. ... -- ... Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@XenCraft.com Xen Master
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 21, 2005
      thanks for posting John.
      The info is useful to members of this list.

      johnmsteele wrote:
      >
      > Not clear if this is on or off topic but may be of interest to the
      > group. It appears Congress may extend DST from first Sunday in March
      > to last Sunday in November, beginning with a delayed return to normal
      > time this fall. This gives very little time to fix automated dst
      > adjustments in timekeeping software. In the winter, when the day is
      > short, it is not clear this saves anything at all, as sunrise is
      > later than most people get up, and sunset earlier than when they go
      > to bed (or even get off work). In the summer, it does "fix" the
      > problem of the sun getting up before we do.
      >
      > http://www.detnews.com/2005/nation/0507/20/A05-253268.htm
      > Congress close to extending daylight time
      >
      > The energy-saving move would start this fall and run through the last
      > Sunday in November.
      >
      > By John J. Fialka / Wall Street Journal
      >
      > Saving daylight
      >
      > As a step to save energy, Congress appears poised to extend U.S.
      > daylight-saving time for two months, starting it earlier, on the
      > first Sunday in March, and ending it later, on the last Sunday of
      > November.
      >
      > The move was first approved in May as part of the House energy bill.
      > The idea has been agreed upon by House and Senate committee staffs,
      > with the approval of Republican chairmen and ranking Democrats. That
      > means it is likely to be approved by the full House-Senate conference
      > committee, which begins squaring the differences between the House
      > and Senate versions of the bill this week.
      >
      > Assuming the president signs the bill, the measure would take effect
      > immediately, extending the daylight-saving time by one month this
      > fall. . . .
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      -------------------------------------------------------------
      Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@...
      Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com

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    • NGUYEN Ivy
      This is a big mess now. I thought North American DST stuff was fixed and wouldn t be messed around with anymore. There s a lot of software and even some
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 21, 2005
        This is a big mess now. I thought North American DST stuff was fixed
        and wouldn't be messed around with anymore. There's a lot of software
        and even some hardware stuff that has settings that wil be thrown off
        by this sudden change.

        > johnmsteele wrote:
        > >
        > > Not clear if this is on or off topic but may be of interest to the
        > > group. It appears Congress may extend DST from first Sunday in March
        > > to last Sunday in November, beginning with a delayed return to normal
        > > time this fall. This gives very little time to fix automated dst
        > > adjustments in timekeeping software. In the winter, when the day is
        > > short, it is not clear this saves anything at all, as sunrise is
        > > later than most people get up, and sunset earlier than when they go
        > > to bed (or even get off work). In the summer, it does "fix" the
        > > problem of the sun getting up before we do.
        > >
        > > http://www.detnews.com/2005/nation/0507/20/A05-253268.htm
        > > Congress close to extending daylight time
        > >
        > > The energy-saving move would start this fall and run through the last
        > > Sunday in November.
        > >
        > > By John J. Fialka / Wall Street Journal
        > >
        > > Saving daylight
        > >
        > > As a step to save energy, Congress appears poised to extend U.S.
        > > daylight-saving time for two months, starting it earlier, on the
        > > first Sunday in March, and ending it later, on the last Sunday of
        > > November.
        > >
        > > The move was first approved in May as part of the House energy bill.
        > > The idea has been agreed upon by House and Senate committee staffs,
        > > with the approval of Republican chairmen and ranking Democrats. That
        > > means it is likely to be approved by the full House-Senate conference
        > > committee, which begins squaring the differences between the House
        > > and Senate versions of the bill this week.
        > >
        > > Assuming the president signs the bill, the measure would take effect
        > > immediately, extending the daylight-saving time by one month this
        > > fall. . . .
      • hjwoudenberg@aol.com
        If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted, it is American arrogance. hjw In a message dated 7/21/2005 8:19:29 P.M. Central
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 21, 2005
          If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted, it is American arrogance.
          hjw
           
           
          In a message dated 7/21/2005 8:19:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nguyenivy@... writes:
          This is a big mess now. I thought North American DST stuff was fixed
          and wouldn't be messed around with anymore. There's a lot of software
          and even some hardware stuff that has settings that will be thrown off
          by this sudden change.

           
        • NGUYEN Ivy
          I think it would apply to the nations in Central America and parts of the Carribbean or Pacific Ocean, right? This would never happen in Europe (not that I
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
            I think it would apply to the nations in Central America and parts of
            the Carribbean or Pacific Ocean, right? This would never happen in
            Europe (not that I think, anyway) (changing a whole timezone's rules
            without consulting every nation who's a part of the timezone). :-(

            Peace...
            2005-07-22 07:51 UTC

            On 21/07/05, hjwoudenberg@... <hjwoudenberg@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted,
            > it is American arrogance.
            > hjw
          • John Steele
            Not sure if Canada was consulted or informed but there are plenty of Canadian articles arguing pro and con for doing it if Congress actually passes it, so
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
              Not sure if Canada was "consulted" or "informed" but there are plenty of Canadian articles arguing pro and con for doing it if Congress actually passes it, so they are aware and reviewing it. My search probably wouldn't have turned up Mexican articles.
               
              I don't think any Central American country observes DST, too close to the equator. Hawaii and most US Pacific possessions don't observe it either. Some Caribbean island countries do, and had been using the same schedule as the US.
               
              But the US has always set the US rule, and others chose to follow it. It used to start much later in April but changed around 20 years ago to the present rules.
               
              Based on article searches, other groups are protesting and Congress is reviewing it. It might be a good time to "write your Congressman."
               
              What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put the Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.

              NGUYEN Ivy <nguyenivy@...> wrote:
              I think it would apply to the nations in Central America and parts of
              the Carribbean or Pacific Ocean, right? This would never happen in
              Europe (not that I think, anyway) (changing a whole timezone's rules
              without consulting every nation who's a part of the timezone). :-(

              Peace...
              2005-07-22 07:51 UTC

              On 21/07/05, hjwoudenberg@... <hjwoudenberg@...> wrote:


              > If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted,
              > it is American arrogance.
              > hjw
            • johnmsteele
              No joy. This isn t law yet, but apparently the House and Senate have compromised on the version to be in the joint bill (which usually get passed with little
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                No joy. This isn't law yet, but apparently the House and Senate
                have "compromised" on the version to be in the joint bill (which
                usually get passed with little or no debate.) From a software and
                international uniformity POV, all of the inconvenience with less of the
                morning darkness.
                http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/22/congress.daylighttime.ap/index.ht
                ml

                <<House and Senate negotiators on an energy bill agreed to begin
                daylight-saving time three weeks earlier, on the second Sunday in
                March, and extend it by one week to the first Sunday in November. >>


                --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, John Steele <johnmsteele@y...> wrote:
                > What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the
                last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS
                countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put the
                Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.
                >
              • hjwoudenberg@aol.com
                In a message dated 7/22/2005 6:02:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, johnmsteele@yahoo.com writes: What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                  In a message dated 7/22/2005 6:02:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, johnmsteele@... writes:
                  What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put the Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.

                   
                  Yes, I agree.
                   
                  hjw
                • NGUYEN Ivy
                  Wouldn t it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of September? This is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East. There s east Asian countries in the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                    Wouldn't it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of September? This
                    is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East. There's east
                    Asian countries in the northern hemisphere that don't do DST (which is
                    a good thing) as well.

                    On 22/07/05, hjwoudenberg@... <hjwoudenberg@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 7/22/2005 6:02:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                    > johnmsteele@... writes:
                    > What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the last
                    > Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS countries. Except
                    > for a few Middle East countries, that would put the Nothern hemisphere on a
                    > unified schedule.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yes, I agree.
                    >
                    > hjw
                  • John Steele
                    The (old) end date at the of October is already common with EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, and CIS countries. Who do you think ends at the end of September? In
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                      The (old) end date at the of October is already common with EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, and CIS countries. Who do you think ends at the end of September?
                       
                      In the Middle East, Israel and the Arab countries each set their own dates. It appears to be "against the law" to have any commonality with any other country.
                       
                      There are countries (and regions, including US states and Canadian provinces, which don't observe DST at all. I'd hope for a little commonality among those who do. Japan and China are a couple of major countries who don't.

                      NGUYEN Ivy <nguyenivy@...> wrote:
                      Wouldn't it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of September? This
                      is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East. There's east
                      Asian countries in the northern hemisphere that don't do DST (which is
                      a good thing) as well.

                    • Bruce Landwaster
                      Seems to be a lot of anti-DST sentiment… DST saves energy by synchronizing available daylight hours with human activity. Studies in the US in the 70s found
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 23, 2005
                        Seems to be a lot of anti-DST sentiment…

                        DST saves energy by synchronizing available daylight hours
                        with human activity. Studies in the US in the 70s found DST
                        to reduce energy consumption by about 1%, which at that
                        time came out to about 10,000 barrels of oil a day, or
                        300,000 barrels a year.

                        One of the American founding fathers, Ben Franklin, while a
                        delegate to France, wrote an essay on the economic benefits
                        of natural light –vs- artificial light and synchronizing
                        human activity around available natural light. It was his
                        assertion that the people of Paris could save about
                        64,050,000 pounds of tallow and wax if they simply adjusted
                        themselves accordingly.

                        Less energy consumption = less money spent and less
                        pollution created.

                        Studies in some US states appear to show that DST reduces
                        traffic fatalities by allowing people to travel home at the
                        end of the day during day light hours instead of in
                        darkness. DST does not appear to affect morning traffic
                        fatalities. (My observation is that people are more prone
                        to be impatient and in a hurry at the end of the day than
                        at the beginning of the day.) In California, The department
                        of traffic estimated DST to save 50 lives, prevent 2,000
                        injuries, and save about $28 million in traffic accident
                        costs.

                        DST appears to reduce people’s exposure to certain crimes,
                        possible by placing most human activity during day light
                        hours.

                        DST, as a concept but not a name, is observed by over 70
                        countries world wide. It is not observed by tropical
                        counties because they have such an abundance of day light
                        hours. This is obviously not some American conspiracy.

                        We recognize the designed flaw in software written without
                        consideration of the turn of the millennia. This design
                        flaw is forgivable due to the need to conserve space and
                        the thought that the technology being designed would be
                        antiquaited long before this would become a problem. This
                        design flaw is not so forgivable when it comes to the idea
                        of DST as it is easy to implement customizable DST options
                        into software or to allow for software updates to handle
                        the question. Any mission critical device that cannot
                        accept a simple upgrade in how it handles time is flawed.

                        I fail to see the inconvenience of DST yet see tangible
                        evidence of it’s benefits. How can not following DST where
                        it can save energy, reduce traffic fatalities, and lower
                        crime, be a good thing? Is resetting the time on all of
                        your devices that big a deal? Can someone please supply me
                        with some reason why DST is a bad idea?


                        --- John Steele <johnmsteele@...> wrote:

                        > The (old) end date at the of October is already common
                        > with EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, and CIS countries. Who
                        > do you think ends at the end of September?
                        >
                        > In the Middle East, Israel and the Arab countries each
                        > set their own dates. It appears to be "against the law"
                        > to have any commonality with any other country.
                        >
                        > There are countries (and regions, including US states and
                        > Canadian provinces, which don't observe DST at all. I'd
                        > hope for a little commonality among those who do. Japan
                        > and China are a couple of major countries who don't.
                        >
                        > NGUYEN Ivy <nguyenivy@...> wrote:
                        > Wouldn't it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of
                        > September? This
                        > is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East.
                        > There's east
                        > Asian countries in the northern hemisphere that don't do
                        > DST (which is
                        > a good thing) as well.
                        >
                        >


                        -Pyster
                        "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge
                        is limited; imagination encircles the world." - Einstein



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                      • johnmsteele
                        Lets make one vain attempt to get back on track and talk about the changes to existing DST law vs good/evil of DST in general. Congress passed it. *Change
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 30, 2005
                          Lets make one vain attempt to get back on track and talk about the
                          changes to existing DST law vs good/evil of DST in general.

                          Congress passed it.
                          *Change doesn't take effect until March 2007
                          *There is supposed to be an energy savings study before the change.
                          If it doesn't pass muster, the change could get cancelled.
                          *Canada and Mexico are thinking about matching our change
                          The new law is 2nd Sunday in March to 1st Sunday in Nov.

                          http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/050729/w072958.html
                          <<One provision with direct and immediate impact on the public
                          expands daylight-saving time by one month, adding three weeks in the
                          spring and a week in the fall, taking it beyond Halloween. The change
                          would go into effect in 2007.

                          The issue has huge implications for Canada, where some officials
                          worry about the impact of being out of sync with U.S. time for
                          airlines, manufacturers, the financial sector and television
                          programming.

                          Some Canadian provinces are wondering if they should follow suit.
                          However, Congress could still reconsider and scrap the idea if a
                          planned U.S. government study suggests it won't lead to much energy
                          savings. >>

                          --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, "johnmsteele" <johnmsteele@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > No joy. This isn't law yet, but apparently the House and Senate
                          > have "compromised" on the version to be in the joint bill (which
                          > usually get passed with little or no debate.) From a software and
                          > international uniformity POV, all of the inconvenience with less of
                          the
                          > morning darkness.
                          >
                          http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/22/congress.daylighttime.ap/index.
                          ht
                          > ml
                          >
                          > <<House and Senate negotiators on an energy bill agreed to begin
                          > daylight-saving time three weeks earlier, on the second Sunday in
                          > March, and extend it by one week to the first Sunday in November. >>
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, John Steele <johnmsteele@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > > What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on
                          the
                          > last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS
                          > countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put
                          the
                          > Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.
                          > >
                        • A B
                          ... It s all Hershey s fault. They re hoping for increased candy sales during Halloween. Kids will go door to door for an hour longer before it gets dark. :)
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 30, 2005
                            > The new law is 2nd Sunday in March to 1st Sunday in Nov.

                            It's all Hershey's fault. They're hoping for increased candy sales
                            during Halloween. Kids will go door to door for an hour longer before
                            it gets dark. :)

                            Now seriously... why the asymmetry? 2nd Sunday in March is roughly a
                            week before vernal equinox. 1st Sunday in November is roughly 6 weeks
                            after autumnal equinox. I sense a strong imbalance in favor of Hershey's.



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                          • Ŭalabio‽
                            ¡Hello! ¿How Fare You? I resisted going on my soapbox for two weeks, but I cannot hold my peace any longer: I believe we should abolish timezones and
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 8, 2005
                              ¡Hello!

                              ¿How Fare You?

                              I resisted going on my soapbox for two weeks, but I cannot hold my
                              peace any longer:

                              <rant>

                              I believe we should abolish timezones and just use GMT/UTC. ¿What
                              does this have to do with ISO 8601? I believe that all time should be
                              in ISO 8601. As an example, now is:

                              2005-08-09T02:22:15

                              By:

                              2005-08-09T02:22:15

                              I mean

                              2005-08-09T02:22:15Z

                              But since we shall not need to indicate timezones, we shall not need
                              the Z.

                              </rant>

                              ¡Thanks!

                              ¡Peace!

                              ¡Bye!



                              Ŭalabio‽

                              --

                              ― “It is enough that the people know there was an election. The
                              people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the
                              votes decide everything.”

                              Joseph Stalin, General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet
                              Union

                              ― “I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the
                              president next year.”

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                            • Sunatori, Go Simon
                              ... 3001: The Final Odyssey (P. 25) ... One minor surprise had been that the whole world was now on Universal Time: the confusing patchwork of Time Zones had
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 13, 2005
                                On Aug 13, 2005, at 13:48, ISO8601@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                > I resisted going on my soapbox for two weeks, but I cannot hold my
                                > peace any longer:
                                >
                                > I believe we should abolish timezones and just use GMT/UTC.

                                Well, here is the voice of wisdom:

                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                3001: The Final Odyssey (P. 25)

                                ... One minor surprise had been that the whole world was now on
                                Universal Time: the confusing patchwork of Time Zones had been swept
                                away by the advent of global communications. There had been much
                                talk of this, back in the Twenty-first Century, ...
                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                On the other hand, Discovery did not go to Jupiter in 2001, and
                                Jupiter is unlikely to ignite to become Lucifer in 2010...

                                Thank you very much for your attention.
                                Merci de votre attention.

                                Simon Sunatori, P.Eng./ing., M.Eng. (Engineering Physics), F.N.A.
                                * An Amazing 3-in-1 Auto-Retractable Pen <http://Sunatori.com/>
                                --
                                Simon Sunatori <http://WWW.HyperInfo.CA/GS.Sunatori/>
                                65, des Parulines <mailto:GS.Sunatori@...>
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