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Congress Changing Daylight Savings Time Dates

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  • johnmsteele
    Not clear if this is on or off topic but may be of interest to the group. It appears Congress may extend DST from first Sunday in March to last Sunday in
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 21, 2005
      Not clear if this is on or off topic but may be of interest to the
      group. It appears Congress may extend DST from first Sunday in March
      to last Sunday in November, beginning with a delayed return to normal
      time this fall. This gives very little time to fix automated dst
      adjustments in timekeeping software. In the winter, when the day is
      short, it is not clear this saves anything at all, as sunrise is
      later than most people get up, and sunset earlier than when they go
      to bed (or even get off work). In the summer, it does "fix" the
      problem of the sun getting up before we do.

      http://www.detnews.com/2005/nation/0507/20/A05-253268.htm
      Congress close to extending daylight time

      The energy-saving move would start this fall and run through the last
      Sunday in November.

      By John J. Fialka / Wall Street Journal

      Saving daylight

      As a step to save energy, Congress appears poised to extend U.S.
      daylight-saving time for two months, starting it earlier, on the
      first Sunday in March, and ending it later, on the last Sunday of
      November.

      The move was first approved in May as part of the House energy bill.
      The idea has been agreed upon by House and Senate committee staffs,
      with the approval of Republican chairmen and ranking Democrats. That
      means it is likely to be approved by the full House-Senate conference
      committee, which begins squaring the differences between the House
      and Senate versions of the bill this week.

      Assuming the president signs the bill, the measure would take effect
      immediately, extending the daylight-saving time by one month this
      fall. . . .
    • Tex Texin
      thanks for posting John. The info is useful to members of this list. ... -- ... Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@XenCraft.com Xen Master
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 21, 2005
        thanks for posting John.
        The info is useful to members of this list.

        johnmsteele wrote:
        >
        > Not clear if this is on or off topic but may be of interest to the
        > group. It appears Congress may extend DST from first Sunday in March
        > to last Sunday in November, beginning with a delayed return to normal
        > time this fall. This gives very little time to fix automated dst
        > adjustments in timekeeping software. In the winter, when the day is
        > short, it is not clear this saves anything at all, as sunrise is
        > later than most people get up, and sunset earlier than when they go
        > to bed (or even get off work). In the summer, it does "fix" the
        > problem of the sun getting up before we do.
        >
        > http://www.detnews.com/2005/nation/0507/20/A05-253268.htm
        > Congress close to extending daylight time
        >
        > The energy-saving move would start this fall and run through the last
        > Sunday in November.
        >
        > By John J. Fialka / Wall Street Journal
        >
        > Saving daylight
        >
        > As a step to save energy, Congress appears poised to extend U.S.
        > daylight-saving time for two months, starting it earlier, on the
        > first Sunday in March, and ending it later, on the last Sunday of
        > November.
        >
        > The move was first approved in May as part of the House energy bill.
        > The idea has been agreed upon by House and Senate committee staffs,
        > with the approval of Republican chairmen and ranking Democrats. That
        > means it is likely to be approved by the full House-Senate conference
        > committee, which begins squaring the differences between the House
        > and Senate versions of the bill this week.
        >
        > Assuming the president signs the bill, the measure would take effect
        > immediately, extending the daylight-saving time by one month this
        > fall. . . .
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        -------------------------------------------------------------
        Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@...
        Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com

        XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com
        Making e-Business Work Around the World
        -------------------------------------------------------------
      • NGUYEN Ivy
        This is a big mess now. I thought North American DST stuff was fixed and wouldn t be messed around with anymore. There s a lot of software and even some
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 21, 2005
          This is a big mess now. I thought North American DST stuff was fixed
          and wouldn't be messed around with anymore. There's a lot of software
          and even some hardware stuff that has settings that wil be thrown off
          by this sudden change.

          > johnmsteele wrote:
          > >
          > > Not clear if this is on or off topic but may be of interest to the
          > > group. It appears Congress may extend DST from first Sunday in March
          > > to last Sunday in November, beginning with a delayed return to normal
          > > time this fall. This gives very little time to fix automated dst
          > > adjustments in timekeeping software. In the winter, when the day is
          > > short, it is not clear this saves anything at all, as sunrise is
          > > later than most people get up, and sunset earlier than when they go
          > > to bed (or even get off work). In the summer, it does "fix" the
          > > problem of the sun getting up before we do.
          > >
          > > http://www.detnews.com/2005/nation/0507/20/A05-253268.htm
          > > Congress close to extending daylight time
          > >
          > > The energy-saving move would start this fall and run through the last
          > > Sunday in November.
          > >
          > > By John J. Fialka / Wall Street Journal
          > >
          > > Saving daylight
          > >
          > > As a step to save energy, Congress appears poised to extend U.S.
          > > daylight-saving time for two months, starting it earlier, on the
          > > first Sunday in March, and ending it later, on the last Sunday of
          > > November.
          > >
          > > The move was first approved in May as part of the House energy bill.
          > > The idea has been agreed upon by House and Senate committee staffs,
          > > with the approval of Republican chairmen and ranking Democrats. That
          > > means it is likely to be approved by the full House-Senate conference
          > > committee, which begins squaring the differences between the House
          > > and Senate versions of the bill this week.
          > >
          > > Assuming the president signs the bill, the measure would take effect
          > > immediately, extending the daylight-saving time by one month this
          > > fall. . . .
        • hjwoudenberg@aol.com
          If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted, it is American arrogance. hjw In a message dated 7/21/2005 8:19:29 P.M. Central
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 21, 2005
            If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted, it is American arrogance.
            hjw
             
             
            In a message dated 7/21/2005 8:19:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nguyenivy@... writes:
            This is a big mess now. I thought North American DST stuff was fixed
            and wouldn't be messed around with anymore. There's a lot of software
            and even some hardware stuff that has settings that will be thrown off
            by this sudden change.

             
          • NGUYEN Ivy
            I think it would apply to the nations in Central America and parts of the Carribbean or Pacific Ocean, right? This would never happen in Europe (not that I
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
              I think it would apply to the nations in Central America and parts of
              the Carribbean or Pacific Ocean, right? This would never happen in
              Europe (not that I think, anyway) (changing a whole timezone's rules
              without consulting every nation who's a part of the timezone). :-(

              Peace...
              2005-07-22 07:51 UTC

              On 21/07/05, hjwoudenberg@... <hjwoudenberg@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted,
              > it is American arrogance.
              > hjw
            • John Steele
              Not sure if Canada was consulted or informed but there are plenty of Canadian articles arguing pro and con for doing it if Congress actually passes it, so
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                Not sure if Canada was "consulted" or "informed" but there are plenty of Canadian articles arguing pro and con for doing it if Congress actually passes it, so they are aware and reviewing it. My search probably wouldn't have turned up Mexican articles.
                 
                I don't think any Central American country observes DST, too close to the equator. Hawaii and most US Pacific possessions don't observe it either. Some Caribbean island countries do, and had been using the same schedule as the US.
                 
                But the US has always set the US rule, and others chose to follow it. It used to start much later in April but changed around 20 years ago to the present rules.
                 
                Based on article searches, other groups are protesting and Congress is reviewing it. It might be a good time to "write your Congressman."
                 
                What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put the Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.

                NGUYEN Ivy <nguyenivy@...> wrote:
                I think it would apply to the nations in Central America and parts of
                the Carribbean or Pacific Ocean, right? This would never happen in
                Europe (not that I think, anyway) (changing a whole timezone's rules
                without consulting every nation who's a part of the timezone). :-(

                Peace...
                2005-07-22 07:51 UTC

                On 21/07/05, hjwoudenberg@... <hjwoudenberg@...> wrote:


                > If Canada and Mexico, who share these time zones, have not been consulted,
                > it is American arrogance.
                > hjw
              • johnmsteele
                No joy. This isn t law yet, but apparently the House and Senate have compromised on the version to be in the joint bill (which usually get passed with little
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                  No joy. This isn't law yet, but apparently the House and Senate
                  have "compromised" on the version to be in the joint bill (which
                  usually get passed with little or no debate.) From a software and
                  international uniformity POV, all of the inconvenience with less of the
                  morning darkness.
                  http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/22/congress.daylighttime.ap/index.ht
                  ml

                  <<House and Senate negotiators on an energy bill agreed to begin
                  daylight-saving time three weeks earlier, on the second Sunday in
                  March, and extend it by one week to the first Sunday in November. >>


                  --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, John Steele <johnmsteele@y...> wrote:
                  > What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the
                  last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS
                  countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put the
                  Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.
                  >
                • hjwoudenberg@aol.com
                  In a message dated 7/22/2005 6:02:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, johnmsteele@yahoo.com writes: What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                    In a message dated 7/22/2005 6:02:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, johnmsteele@... writes:
                    What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put the Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.

                     
                    Yes, I agree.
                     
                    hjw
                  • NGUYEN Ivy
                    Wouldn t it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of September? This is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East. There s east Asian countries in the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                      Wouldn't it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of September? This
                      is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East. There's east
                      Asian countries in the northern hemisphere that don't do DST (which is
                      a good thing) as well.

                      On 22/07/05, hjwoudenberg@... <hjwoudenberg@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > In a message dated 7/22/2005 6:02:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                      > johnmsteele@... writes:
                      > What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on the last
                      > Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS countries. Except
                      > for a few Middle East countries, that would put the Nothern hemisphere on a
                      > unified schedule.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yes, I agree.
                      >
                      > hjw
                    • John Steele
                      The (old) end date at the of October is already common with EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, and CIS countries. Who do you think ends at the end of September? In
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 22, 2005
                        The (old) end date at the of October is already common with EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, and CIS countries. Who do you think ends at the end of September?
                         
                        In the Middle East, Israel and the Arab countries each set their own dates. It appears to be "against the law" to have any commonality with any other country.
                         
                        There are countries (and regions, including US states and Canadian provinces, which don't observe DST at all. I'd hope for a little commonality among those who do. Japan and China are a couple of major countries who don't.

                        NGUYEN Ivy <nguyenivy@...> wrote:
                        Wouldn't it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of September? This
                        is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East. There's east
                        Asian countries in the northern hemisphere that don't do DST (which is
                        a good thing) as well.

                      • Bruce Landwaster
                        Seems to be a lot of anti-DST sentiment… DST saves energy by synchronizing available daylight hours with human activity. Studies in the US in the 70s found
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 23, 2005
                          Seems to be a lot of anti-DST sentiment…

                          DST saves energy by synchronizing available daylight hours
                          with human activity. Studies in the US in the 70s found DST
                          to reduce energy consumption by about 1%, which at that
                          time came out to about 10,000 barrels of oil a day, or
                          300,000 barrels a year.

                          One of the American founding fathers, Ben Franklin, while a
                          delegate to France, wrote an essay on the economic benefits
                          of natural light –vs- artificial light and synchronizing
                          human activity around available natural light. It was his
                          assertion that the people of Paris could save about
                          64,050,000 pounds of tallow and wax if they simply adjusted
                          themselves accordingly.

                          Less energy consumption = less money spent and less
                          pollution created.

                          Studies in some US states appear to show that DST reduces
                          traffic fatalities by allowing people to travel home at the
                          end of the day during day light hours instead of in
                          darkness. DST does not appear to affect morning traffic
                          fatalities. (My observation is that people are more prone
                          to be impatient and in a hurry at the end of the day than
                          at the beginning of the day.) In California, The department
                          of traffic estimated DST to save 50 lives, prevent 2,000
                          injuries, and save about $28 million in traffic accident
                          costs.

                          DST appears to reduce people’s exposure to certain crimes,
                          possible by placing most human activity during day light
                          hours.

                          DST, as a concept but not a name, is observed by over 70
                          countries world wide. It is not observed by tropical
                          counties because they have such an abundance of day light
                          hours. This is obviously not some American conspiracy.

                          We recognize the designed flaw in software written without
                          consideration of the turn of the millennia. This design
                          flaw is forgivable due to the need to conserve space and
                          the thought that the technology being designed would be
                          antiquaited long before this would become a problem. This
                          design flaw is not so forgivable when it comes to the idea
                          of DST as it is easy to implement customizable DST options
                          into software or to allow for software updates to handle
                          the question. Any mission critical device that cannot
                          accept a simple upgrade in how it handles time is flawed.

                          I fail to see the inconvenience of DST yet see tangible
                          evidence of it’s benefits. How can not following DST where
                          it can save energy, reduce traffic fatalities, and lower
                          crime, be a good thing? Is resetting the time on all of
                          your devices that big a deal? Can someone please supply me
                          with some reason why DST is a bad idea?


                          --- John Steele <johnmsteele@...> wrote:

                          > The (old) end date at the of October is already common
                          > with EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, and CIS countries. Who
                          > do you think ends at the end of September?
                          >
                          > In the Middle East, Israel and the Arab countries each
                          > set their own dates. It appears to be "against the law"
                          > to have any commonality with any other country.
                          >
                          > There are countries (and regions, including US states and
                          > Canadian provinces, which don't observe DST at all. I'd
                          > hope for a little commonality among those who do. Japan
                          > and China are a couple of major countries who don't.
                          >
                          > NGUYEN Ivy <nguyenivy@...> wrote:
                          > Wouldn't it make sense to end it on the last Sunday of
                          > September? This
                          > is commonplace in Europe & parts of the Middle East.
                          > There's east
                          > Asian countries in the northern hemisphere that don't do
                          > DST (which is
                          > a good thing) as well.
                          >
                          >


                          -Pyster
                          "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge
                          is limited; imagination encircles the world." - Einstein



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                        • johnmsteele
                          Lets make one vain attempt to get back on track and talk about the changes to existing DST law vs good/evil of DST in general. Congress passed it. *Change
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 30, 2005
                            Lets make one vain attempt to get back on track and talk about the
                            changes to existing DST law vs good/evil of DST in general.

                            Congress passed it.
                            *Change doesn't take effect until March 2007
                            *There is supposed to be an energy savings study before the change.
                            If it doesn't pass muster, the change could get cancelled.
                            *Canada and Mexico are thinking about matching our change
                            The new law is 2nd Sunday in March to 1st Sunday in Nov.

                            http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/050729/w072958.html
                            <<One provision with direct and immediate impact on the public
                            expands daylight-saving time by one month, adding three weeks in the
                            spring and a week in the fall, taking it beyond Halloween. The change
                            would go into effect in 2007.

                            The issue has huge implications for Canada, where some officials
                            worry about the impact of being out of sync with U.S. time for
                            airlines, manufacturers, the financial sector and television
                            programming.

                            Some Canadian provinces are wondering if they should follow suit.
                            However, Congress could still reconsider and scrap the idea if a
                            planned U.S. government study suggests it won't lead to much energy
                            savings. >>

                            --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, "johnmsteele" <johnmsteele@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > No joy. This isn't law yet, but apparently the House and Senate
                            > have "compromised" on the version to be in the joint bill (which
                            > usually get passed with little or no debate.) From a software and
                            > international uniformity POV, all of the inconvenience with less of
                            the
                            > morning darkness.
                            >
                            http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/22/congress.daylighttime.ap/index.
                            ht
                            > ml
                            >
                            > <<House and Senate negotiators on an energy bill agreed to begin
                            > daylight-saving time three weeks earlier, on the second Sunday in
                            > March, and extend it by one week to the first Sunday in November. >>
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, John Steele <johnmsteele@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > > What I would like to see is to advance it one week and change on
                            the
                            > last Sunday of March as do the EU, Eastern Europe, Russia, CIS
                            > countries. Except for a few Middle East countries, that would put
                            the
                            > Nothern hemisphere on a unified schedule.
                            > >
                          • A B
                            ... It s all Hershey s fault. They re hoping for increased candy sales during Halloween. Kids will go door to door for an hour longer before it gets dark. :)
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 30, 2005
                              > The new law is 2nd Sunday in March to 1st Sunday in Nov.

                              It's all Hershey's fault. They're hoping for increased candy sales
                              during Halloween. Kids will go door to door for an hour longer before
                              it gets dark. :)

                              Now seriously... why the asymmetry? 2nd Sunday in March is roughly a
                              week before vernal equinox. 1st Sunday in November is roughly 6 weeks
                              after autumnal equinox. I sense a strong imbalance in favor of Hershey's.



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                            • Ŭalabio‽
                              ¡Hello! ¿How Fare You? I resisted going on my soapbox for two weeks, but I cannot hold my peace any longer: I believe we should abolish timezones and
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 8, 2005
                                ¡Hello!

                                ¿How Fare You?

                                I resisted going on my soapbox for two weeks, but I cannot hold my
                                peace any longer:

                                <rant>

                                I believe we should abolish timezones and just use GMT/UTC. ¿What
                                does this have to do with ISO 8601? I believe that all time should be
                                in ISO 8601. As an example, now is:

                                2005-08-09T02:22:15

                                By:

                                2005-08-09T02:22:15

                                I mean

                                2005-08-09T02:22:15Z

                                But since we shall not need to indicate timezones, we shall not need
                                the Z.

                                </rant>

                                ¡Thanks!

                                ¡Peace!

                                ¡Bye!



                                Ŭalabio‽

                                --

                                ― “It is enough that the people know there was an election. The
                                people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the
                                votes decide everything.”

                                Joseph Stalin, General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet
                                Union

                                ― “I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the
                                president next year.”

                                Walden Wally O'Dell, Chairman and CEO of Diebold.Com ― Self-service,
                                security, election and service solutions
                              • Sunatori, Go Simon
                                ... 3001: The Final Odyssey (P. 25) ... One minor surprise had been that the whole world was now on Universal Time: the confusing patchwork of Time Zones had
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 13, 2005
                                  On Aug 13, 2005, at 13:48, ISO8601@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                  > I resisted going on my soapbox for two weeks, but I cannot hold my
                                  > peace any longer:
                                  >
                                  > I believe we should abolish timezones and just use GMT/UTC.

                                  Well, here is the voice of wisdom:

                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  3001: The Final Odyssey (P. 25)

                                  ... One minor surprise had been that the whole world was now on
                                  Universal Time: the confusing patchwork of Time Zones had been swept
                                  away by the advent of global communications. There had been much
                                  talk of this, back in the Twenty-first Century, ...
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                  On the other hand, Discovery did not go to Jupiter in 2001, and
                                  Jupiter is unlikely to ignite to become Lucifer in 2010...

                                  Thank you very much for your attention.
                                  Merci de votre attention.

                                  Simon Sunatori, P.Eng./ing., M.Eng. (Engineering Physics), F.N.A.
                                  * An Amazing 3-in-1 Auto-Retractable Pen <http://Sunatori.com/>
                                  --
                                  Simon Sunatori <http://WWW.HyperInfo.CA/GS.Sunatori/>
                                  65, des Parulines <mailto:GS.Sunatori@...>
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