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Re: [ISO8601] Digest Number 496

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  • Walker Web Data
    Bona vada! John M Steele said However, one has to ask, Does it matter? in reply to the question, Anyone know why ISO-8601 has a year zero? Sanity and
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 23, 2005
      Bona vada!

      John M Steele said "However, one has to ask, "Does it matter?" in reply to the question, "Anyone know why ISO-8601 has a year zero?"

      Sanity and common sense combined!

      I suppose that for some academic purposes, having a year zero does matter and indeed may even be useful for some "practical" academic purposes, but, I suspect, not many.

      Still, the ISO8601 year zero exists so let us keep it.

      That way, everybody is happy.

      Have a nice day.

      Zardonic smiley (:-(z)

      John

      On 23 Jun 2005 17:12:52 -0000, ISO8601@yahoogroups.com <ISO8601@yahoogroups.com > wrote:
      There are 4 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

            1. W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal year value.
                 From: hjwoudenberg@...
            2. Re: W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal year value.
                 From: John Steele <johnmsteele@...>
            3. Re: W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal...
                 From: hjwoudenberg@...
            4. Re: W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal...
                 From: John Steele <johnmsteele@...>


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      Message: 1
         Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:49:29 EDT
         From: hjwoudenberg@...
      Subject: W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal year value.

      _http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#isoformats_
      (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#isoformats)

      Anyone know why ISO-8601 has a year zero.

      More support for ISO-8601.
      Great that the ISO-8601 lexical formats rather than C was adopted.

      XML Schema Part 2: Datatypes Second  Edition

      W3C Recommendation 28 October  2004


      D ISO 8601 Date and Time Formats

      (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#truncatedformats ) D.1 ISO 8601 Conventions
      The _¬∑primitive¬∑_ (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#dt-primitive)  datatypes
      _duration_ ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#duration) , _dateTime_
      (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#dateTime) , _time_
      ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#time) , _date_ (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#date) , _gYearMonth_
      ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#gYearMonth) , _gMonthDay_
      (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#gMonthDay) , _gDay_ ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#gDay) ,
      _gMonth_ (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#gMonth)  and _gYear_
      ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#gYear)  use lexical formats inspired by _[ISO  8601]_
      (http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#ISO8601) .



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      Message: 2
         Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:20:07 -0700 (PDT)
         From: John Steele <johnmsteele@...>
      Subject: Re: W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal year value.

      Yes.  ISO 8601 uses the astronomical convention that 1 BCE is the year 0000. This is explained in notes following 4.3.2.1 of the 2000 Draft.  This greatly aids computation of time interval from BCE to CE dates, which is important to astronomers.

      This proposed schema apparently uses year value -0001 to represent 1 BCE, and makes 0000 illegal.  So there will be two standards out there, compatible for "current era" dates but not for BCE. Another great step forward.

      However, one has to ask, "Does it matter?"

      ISO8601 is really not too useful for dates before the introduction of the Gregorian calendar in 1582. Historians use the Julian calendar before that date because the people of the time used it; they also extend it arbitrarily far into the past before the Julian calendar was established. Dates before 1582 are really history, not commerce, and 8601 is intended to facilitate date interchange in commerce between computers. It is not much used in text in history books. The dates readily available for the period 8 CE to 1582 CE have to be converted from Julian to Gregorian proleptic to use 8601 notation. (from 45 BCE to 8 CE, the Romans had some screwups in leap year determination and it is uncertainly exactly which years were leap years, but the pattern was irregular as they cancelled some leap years to get back on track.)
      hjwoudenberg@... wrote:
      http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#isoformats

      Anyone know why ISO-8601 has a year zero.



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      Message: 3
         Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:21:55 EDT
         From: hjwoudenberg@...
      Subject: Re: W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal...


      In a message dated 6/23/2005 7:21:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
      johnmsteele@... writes:

      ISO8601  is really not too useful for dates before the introduction of the
      Gregorian  calendar in 1582. Historians use the Julian calendar before that date
      because  the people of the time used it; they also extend it arbitrarily far
      into the  past before the Julian calendar was established. Dates before 1582
      are really  history, not commerce, and 8601 is intended to facilitate date
      interchange in  commerce between computers


      Very true.  However, should software support it?

      Thanks
      hjw


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      Message: 4
         Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
         From: John Steele <johnmsteele@...>
      Subject: Re: W3C ISO-8601   D.3.2 No Year Zero The year "0000" is an illegal...

      hjwoudenberg@... wrote:
      Very true.  However, should software support it?



      I don't know if it "should" in the sense of "needs to." I have no issue if it does.  Perhaps more debate is needed over the best way to support it. I see flaws in both this approach, and the 8601 approach, plus they are different.  I don't see either approach satisfying groups who would be the primary users of such dates (pre 1582).

      But, it is so irrelevant to electronic commerce, perhaps it should be kicked to the wwdates group.  Some specialized software needs to support something for historians, but general purpose software, ???, it would rarely be used.




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