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681Re: [ISO8601] Re: Pure ISO 8601 or varied for popular formats

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  • Tex Texin
    Sep 1, 2003
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      Hi,

      I am not clear on what you are saying in the latter half of your mail.

      I agree that text names included with the date can be confusing.
      For some users they are reassuring however.

      When you say:

      > or "2000 January 1 (Saturday)" (used in the Chinese, Hangul &
      > Japanese languages for thousands of years

      I have to question this, since Gregorian calendar is relatively recent,
      adoption of English is even more recent, and lunar calendars were used going
      back millenia in China, but not so far back in Japan.

      Here is a page on Chinese calendar history:
      http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-chinese.html

      and for Japanese:
      http://www.ndl.go.jp/koyomi/e/history/02_index1.html

      Maybe you are referring to the date format, independent of the calendar in use?

      As for using English, it is acceptable in HK, and certainly is used in the
      other markets, but in general you will improve the marketability of your
      software if you use the native language.

      I would also recommend using the native characters for month, day and year as
      separators, as is the custom, where appropriate. For columns of dates or
      reports/screens where space is at a premium, using just the slash or hyphen
      separator characters is acceptable.

      However, this is cultural formating, not data interchange, and we are now far
      afield from 8601 which is the locus of this list.

      tex


      ali0917 wrote:
      >
      > The human-readable numeric formats should be:
      >
      > 2000-06-14T23:59:59Z or 2000-06-14T19:59:59-04:00
      > 2000-06-14 23:59:59 (UTC) or 2000-06-14 19:59:59 (UTC-04:00)
      >
      > The latter should be default and the former should be for the
      > internal code of programs.
      >
      > The example with "Wednesday, August 2003-08-13T18:00:00+01:00 CEST"
      > isn't a very good example as the month is in two places and can
      > confuse a reader.. Something like "2003-08-13 (Wed) 18:00:00
      > (UTC+01:00)" would work much better. The "1999/12/31 (Friday)
      > 23:59:59" format has been in use in China & Japan for a LONG time
      > so, it may be a good alternative. Modernising it to "1999-12-31
      > (Fri) 23:59:59" may be the best bet. For worded longhand dates in
      > English, something like "Saturday, 1 January 2000" (used in the UK)
      > or "2000 January 1 (Saturday)" (used in the Chinese, Hangul &
      > Japanese languages for thousands of years and by astronomers in the
      > form of "1999 Dec 31.ddd..." (decimal part of day) for a few
      > centuries) would work well.
      >
      > I hope any of this helped...
      >
      > --- In ISO8601@yahoogroups.com, Tex Texin <tex@i...> wrote:
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > My suggestion would be to have at least a "pure ISO 8601" mode
      > that conforms
      > > exactly and then offer the forms that you think are more natural
      > or popular as
      > > options or alternatives so you satisfy both worlds.
      > > I don't think the ISO community will complain unless you
      > misrepresent formats
      > > that are close to 8601, but not defined in 8601, as 8601
      > conformant. It might
      > > help to warn your users that the 8601 format is best for data
      > interchange and
      > > the non 8601 variations are (perhaps) better for readability.
      > >
      > > That's my 2 cents. But check with your (potential) user community
      > if possible.
      > >
      > > hth
      > > tex
      > >
      > > hjwoudenberg@a... wrote:
      > > >
      > > > In a message dated 8/13/2003 5:25:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
      > HJWOUDENBERG
      > > > writes:
      > > > Should be with blank before time
      > > >
      > > > > to = "Wednesday, August 2003-08-13 18:00:00+01:00 CEST"
      > > >
      > > > Subject: To Tex Texin
      > > > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:25:01 EDT
      > > > From: HJWOUDENBERG@a...
      > > >
      > > > My date and time conversion for anywhere in the world to
      > anywhere in the
      > > > world is just about completed.
      > > >
      > > > I support the ISO to the letter, but would like you advice about
      > some common
      > > > practices
      > > >
      > > > The ISO to the letter requires the "T" as the designator for
      > time:
      > > >
      > > > No zero suppression.
      > > > No names of day or month
      > > > Does do not permit truncation.
      > > > Only permits reduced precision on time.
      > > >
      > > > It supports all combinations of date, time, fraction of
      > time
      > > > (hours,minutes,seconds[ fraction of days]),and Coordinate
      > Universal Time
      > > > offset and conversion for calendar dates, ordinal dates and week-
      > dates.
      > > > It does not support Time Intervals (As you have pointed
      > out the
      > > > problems).
      > > >
      > > > The general practices supports:
      > > > 'That the "T" is replace with a blank.
      > > > The name of the day and month can be prefixed to the date.
      > > > The text abbreviation for the time zone may be suffixed
      > after the
      > > > offset.
      > > >
      > > > Tex, you know the ISO community. How much criticism can I
      > expect? This
      > > > general practices are the real world, how do you think they
      > should be
      > > > handled? Should I say these are not ISO dates? The market
      > wants these
      > > > features.
      > > >
      > > > Examples of the use of the function (.fr is ISO two letter code
      > for France)
      > > > to = ADT(.fr:2003-08-13T12:00:00-05:00)
      > > > (;CEST is Central Eruopean Summer Time)
      > > > to = ADT(;CET:2003-08-13T12:00:00-05:00)
      > > >
      > > > to= "2003-08-13T18:00:00+01:00"
      > > >
      > > > to = ADT(*I&=.fr|L|!TZA:2003-08-13T12:00:00-05:00)
      > > >
      > > > to = "Wednesday, August 2003-08-13T18:00:00+01:00 CEST"
      > >
      > > --
      > > -------------------------------------------------------------
      > > Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@X...
      > > Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com
      > >
      > > XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com
      > > Making e-Business Work Around the World
      > > -------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

      --
      -------------------------------------------------------------
      Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@...
      Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com

      XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com
      Making e-Business Work Around the World
      -------------------------------------------------------------
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