Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re:[IRAQHistory] Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions to Document Moslems

Expand Messages
  • Richard Sullivan
    Dear May:   I was going through old emails from this group and noticed yours below. I don t remember reading it.   I noticed that since you ve sent
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 4, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear May:
       
      I was going through old emails from this group and noticed yours below. I don't remember
      reading it.
       
      I noticed that since you've sent it, NOBODY responded to any of your history related questions below, which was unfortunate.  After you emailed it, the members became
      busy with the season's greetings and perhaps were busy with the holidays.
       
      You provided excellent points and raised very interesting questions, and I hope
      members of this group take the time and energy to answer or comment on
      some of what you've raised below.
       
      I will try myself to answer some of them shortly,
       
       
      Dear Wafaa:
       
      The list you provided had an outstanding information.  You have done a marvelous
      job.  I think you should post it on our group's blog and include it with your letter pertaining WIKIPEDIA.  I noticed that the blog has not been updated since last Summer.  No, no,
      this is not to add more responsibilites to you, but just a friendly reminder
       
       
      Best Regards,
      Richard Sullivan

      --- On Mon, 12/29/08, May Roberts <filmwriting2004@...> wrote:
      From: May Roberts <filmwriting2004@...>
      Subject: [IRAQHistory] Re: Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions in Documenting Moslems
      To: IRAQHistory@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 12:01 PM

      Thank you, Wafaa', for this informative list.  I hope other subscribers point out
      more errors in the next few days.
       
      I googled "history of IRAQ," and to my disappointment the Wikipedia link was
      at the top of the list of links.
       
      Since I am not a historian and know little about the history of IRAQ, I will
      make my points below in the form of questions, and I hope those knowledgeable
      about these points would share their knowledge and answer some questions.
       
      In this link about the history of IRAQ, please note the interesting appeal on the top of the page by Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ History_of_ Iraq
      and the link (in the top middle page) discussing the disputed material provided.
       
      My concerns and inqueries about what is being written in this page are as follows:
       
      1. In the link above, it reads;
      Sumerian dominance was challenged by the Akkadians, a Semitic people who migrated up from the Arabian Peninsula."
       
      I am aware of the fact that Akkadians were Semites, but I am not aware of the fact that they came from the Arabian Peninsula.  Is this true? 
       
      2. For the first time in my reading of ancient Iraqi history, I come across two groups of people that I never read on before and nobody (I asked) knew anything about them, yet Wikipedia mentions them; Mitanni and Medes!!  Do you know anything about them?  Have you read about them in Arabic or other languages?  I laughed when read "Medes (from Media)," capitalizing 'M', what do they mean by this?
       
      3. Under the subtitle, "Chaldeans," it reads, " At that time, Assyria was under considerable pressure from an Iranian people,"  The English here tells me that
      this page or at least this line was written by a non-Iraqi, non-Arab and non-Iranian.  "Pressure from an Iranian People"?  There was no such reference as Iranians in those ancient times.
       
      It really bother me when they use "People" after Arab, Iraqi, Iranian, Turkish and others
      whereas when they say/write Americans, British, French and all the more important citizens, they don't follow it by the term "People," as if to confirm that the former are people and not something else!
       
      The page provided a brief mention about Babylonians and Nabuchadnezzar, yet longer and poorly written "Persian Domination" paragraph.
       
      4. The map on the left side of the page under the paragraph "Arab conquest and Islamic
      Period" is strange.  They enlisted the periods of Caliphs excluding the Abbasid period.
      How can this be when they are discussing the history of IRAQ? A line must be added about the Abbasid period from 750 CE to 1258 CE.  The most alarming matter here is that they refer to the Arab period as a period of conquest as if there were no Arabs in IRAQ before Islam, which is WRONG and as if we, the modern people, are exactly sure that Sumerians, Babylonians and Assyrians were ALL native of IRAQ!!  Even though they stated that Akkadians came from the Arabian Peninsula, they didn't refere to their era as a conquest!!  They called every period in IRAQ by providing the name of the people only (i.e. Assyrians, Babylonians, Sumerians) or used the term "domination" with the Persians (which does not necessarily mean conquest by outsiders), but only with the Arab period, it is a conquest!!!
       
      I did not want to deal with what is being written about modern Iraqi history and leave
      it to those who know about it better.
       
      Please distribute this email to your lists WITH APPRECIATION.
       
      Happy New Year,
      May Roberts


      --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Wafaa' Al-Natheema <aboutfromiraq@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      From: Wafaa' Al-Natheema <aboutfromiraq@ yahoo.com>
      Subject: [IRAQHistory] Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions in Documenting Moslems
      To: IRAQHistory@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 3:31 PM

       

       

      2.  Even though al-Farabi lived 40 years in Baghdad with no mention of him ever living or studying in any city in today's Iran, in the list of regional countries on the right side of the page, it enlisted:

       

       
      Greetings;
       
      Please add, edit and give feedback on the list below and email it to me
      WITH APPRECIATION,
       
      I appreciate receiving Wikipedia errors and misconceptions on modern Iraqi history and the Arab-Zionist conflict.
       
      Notice point 9 below!!!
       
      Have a wonderful holiday
      Wafaa' Al-Natheema
       
      //////////// ///////// ///////// ///////// //
       
       

      1. Both Al-Farabi (alpharabius) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina (Avicenna) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Avicenna are presented as Persians.  In the

      case of al-FarabiWikipedia enlisted two subtitles; one on his Persian origin backed supposedly by "historic sources" without using the term 'claim,' the other introduced his Turkic origin as a claim to denote its unreliability.  Both Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina were born and raised in Central Asia, particularly Afghanistan/ Uzbekistan, little to nothing known about the origin of their parents, both contributed during the Islamic erayet Wikipedia insists on refering to it incorrectly as the Persian empire or Samanid dynasty and categorizing these scientists as PERSIANS!!

      Region:

      Central Asia, Iran, Egypt and Syria

       

      3. The greatest Moslem chemist of his time Jabir bin Hayan al-Kufiborn and raised in Kufa, South of IRAQ http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Geber is according to Wikipedia born in Khorasan in Iran.  The Wikipedia page about this great scientist is filled with the mention of Persians and Persian language/thesis and Shiites-Umayyad/ Abbasid rivalry overshadowing his great inventions.  It includes a corrupted and a damaging account in the middle of the page under the subject title "The Geber Problem"

       

      4. When there are serious discrepancies about the ethnic and regional origin of the Moslem Scholars, the words 'Moslem Scholars' or 'Moslem Scientist' are placed above the personal portrait on the right side, yet when those are believed to be "definitely known" as Persians, the categorization above the portrait is typed 'Persian Scholar' for distinction. 

       

      5. Even though Ibn Al-Haytham was of Arab descent, Wikipedia enlists him as ' Arab and/or Persian' on the right-side Index and interestingly does not enlist his sect as normally mentioned about the so-called Persian scholars.  It makes a laughable documentation about Basra city being part of Persia by stating that he was "Born circa 965, near modern-day Basra, part of present-day Iraq, and then part of Buyid Persia,[1] ..........."

       

      6.  Al-Bayrooni or Al-Biruni http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Biruni has been documented as Persian eventhough the origin of his parents is unknown and that he was born in a city in today's Kazakhistan.  It typically mentions his sect (in the right-side list) during a time when there was no such categorization made in documentation.

       

      7. Jalalu~Ddine Rumi (the famous Sufi scholar) was born in Balkh, today's Afghanistan.  His father was an Arab, yet he is documented in this Wikipedia

      link as Persian: http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Jalal_ad- Din_Muhammad_ Rumi

      Even if his mother was Persian, his Arab lineage should be included.  Wikipedia

      states that Balkh (during Rumi's time) was part of the Persian empire!  Yet during Rumi's time there was no such a thing as Persian empire, it was an Islamic

      era /dynasty.

       

      8. 
      Ibn Zakariya Ar-Razi has been again labeled as Persian just because his family's name is said to mean 'from the city of Rayy' (if this is truly what it means) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Muhammad_ ibn_Zakar% C4%ABya_R% C4%81zi  Wikipedia states that
       

      "In Persian, Razi means "from the city of Rayy (also spelled Ray, Rey, or Rai, old Persian Ragha, Latin Rhagae -formerly one of the great cities of the World)", an ancient town on the southern slopes of the Elburz Range that skirts the south of the Caspian Sea, situated near Tehran, Iran. In this city (like Avicenna) he accomplished most of his work.[9 "

       

       

      9.  Al-Hasan al-Basri who was born in Medina in today's Saudi Arabia http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Hasan_al- Basri is being Persianized as well

      by stating his parents were Persians and many reliable sources indicate

      his Arab ancestry.

       

      PLEASE NOTE that as of December 23 the following was placed on

      the top of the Wikipedia page for al-Basri:

      Во имя знания!

      — Edward from Israel; donated $30

      (For the sake of knowledge!)

       

      ------------ -----

       

      In other words, no Moslem scholar (especially the famous) is presented in Wikipedia without being linked often incorrectly or unnecessarily to Persian

      ancestry!. 

       

       

      10. There is a seriously damaging sectarian inclusion provided in the Wikipedia pages presented under madh.hab or religion, which appears on the right side of the page by disclosing the sect as either Ismaeli or Shiite.  According to Wikipedia, none of the Moslem polymath were Arabs and nearly all of them were Persians and Shiites, which is incorrect!!   This has no relevance in documenting the history of people worldwide.  None of the Christian and Jewish polymaths, kings, artists and professionals are being categorized in Wikipedia or in any other encyclopedia by their sects (Orthodox, moderate Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and so on) whether in documenting the past or the present!.

       



    • Amr Abyad
      Dear May, I will share with you what I know about the issues you raised. Hopefully that will be useful. There is wide belief among scholars, not an
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 11, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear May,
         

        I will share with you what I know about the issues you raised. Hopefully that will be useful. There is wide belief among scholars, not an unchallengeable one though, that all Semitic peoples in Mesopotamia and Syria as well as the Semitic component of Egypt originated from the Arabian Peninsula. The movements out of Arabia were in times of draught and/or overpopulation, while inward movements happened due pressures from rival groups.

         

        The origin of the Akkadians, however, in particular is more certain than the rest of Semites. Their origin is most probably from the east of the Arabian Peninsula, according to many scholars.

        It is also wrong to say that Medes were grappling with Assyrians over Northern Iraq, since it was actually the other way round. Also it is wrong to label the medes as Iranians, or else we would have to label Babylonians, Pharaohs and Assyrians as Arabs?

        The Semitic Assyrians dominated the western part of todays Iran, homeland of the Medes. The Medes were Indo-Aryan people, racially close to Achaemenids who were only called Persians around 600 B.C by the Greeks, but not by themselves.  Alas, towards the end of the 7th century B.C, Medes allied with the Semitic Chaldeans to destroy Assyria!!! Isn’t that just too reminiscent of what is happening today in the Arab world?

         

        As for the Mitanni, they are most probably Aryan people from Asia Minor, perhaps cousins of Greeks. They had played a role in ancient Arab history for a while as they settled in Mesopotamia and parts of greater Syria. Egyptians recorded many battles against them  for control over Syria.  What is certain, however, is that their cultural and racial influence in Mesopotamia remains highly negligible, as Ancient Iraq had always remained Semitic throughout ancient history, and modern one of course.

         

         

        Best regards,

        Amr


        On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Richard Sullivan <richardsullivan1942@...> wrote:

        Dear May:
         
        I was going through old emails from this group and noticed yours below. I don't remember
        reading it.
         
        I noticed that since you've sent it, NOBODY responded to any of your history related questions below, which was unfortunate.  After you emailed it, the members became
        busy with the season's greetings and perhaps were busy with the holidays.
         
        You provided excellent points and raised very interesting questions, and I hope
        members of this group take the time and energy to answer or comment on
        some of what you've raised below.
         
        I will try myself to answer some of them shortly,
         
         
        Dear Wafaa:
         
        The list you provided had an outstanding information.  You have done a marvelous
        job.  I think you should post it on our group's blog and include it with your letter pertaining WIKIPEDIA.  I noticed that the blog has not been updated since last Summer.  No, no,
        this is not to add more responsibilites to you, but just a friendly reminder
         
         
        Best Regards,
        Richard Sullivan

        --- On Mon, 12/29/08, May Roberts <filmwriting2004@...> wrote:
        From: May Roberts <filmwriting2004@...>
        Subject: [IRAQHistory] Re: Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions in Documenting Moslems
        To: IRAQHistory@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 12:01 PM

        Thank you, Wafaa', for this informative list.  I hope other subscribers point out
        more errors in the next few days.
         
        I googled "history of IRAQ," and to my disappointment the Wikipedia link was
        at the top of the list of links.
         
        Since I am not a historian and know little about the history of IRAQ, I will
        make my points below in the form of questions, and I hope those knowledgeable
        about these points would share their knowledge and answer some questions.
         
        In this link about the history of IRAQ, please note the interesting appeal on the top of the page by Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ History_of_ Iraq
        and the link (in the top middle page) discussing the disputed material provided.
         
        My concerns and inqueries about what is being written in this page are as follows:
         
        1. In the link above, it reads;
        Sumerian dominance was challenged by the Akkadians, a Semitic people who migrated up from the Arabian Peninsula."
         
        I am aware of the fact that Akkadians were Semites, but I am not aware of the fact that they came from the Arabian Peninsula.  Is this true? 
         
        2. For the first time in my reading of ancient Iraqi history, I come across two groups of people that I never read on before and nobody (I asked) knew anything about them, yet Wikipedia mentions them; Mitanni and Medes!!  Do you know anything about them?  Have you read about them in Arabic or other languages?  I laughed when read "Medes (from Media)," capitalizing 'M', what do they mean by this?
         
        3. Under the subtitle, "Chaldeans," it reads, " At that time, Assyria was under considerable pressure from an Iranian people,"  The English here tells me that
        this page or at least this line was written by a non-Iraqi, non-Arab and non-Iranian.  "Pressure from an Iranian People"?  There was no such reference as Iranians in those ancient times.
         
        It really bother me when they use "People" after Arab, Iraqi, Iranian, Turkish and others
        whereas when they say/write Americans, British, French and all the more important citizens, they don't follow it by the term "People," as if to confirm that the former are people and not something else!
         
        The page provided a brief mention about Babylonians and Nabuchadnezzar, yet longer and poorly written "Persian Domination" paragraph.
         
        4. The map on the left side of the page under the paragraph "Arab conquest and Islamic
        Period" is strange.  They enlisted the periods of Caliphs excluding the Abbasid period.
        How can this be when they are discussing the history of IRAQ? A line must be added about the Abbasid period from 750 CE to 1258 CE.  The most alarming matter here is that they refer to the Arab period as a period of conquest as if there were no Arabs in IRAQ before Islam, which is WRONG and as if we, the modern people, are exactly sure that Sumerians, Babylonians and Assyrians were ALL native of IRAQ!!  Even though they stated that Akkadians came from the Arabian Peninsula, they didn't refere to their era as a conquest!!  They called every period in IRAQ by providing the name of the people only (i.e. Assyrians, Babylonians, Sumerians) or used the term "domination" with the Persians (which does not necessarily mean conquest by outsiders), but only with the Arab period, it is a conquest!!!
         
        I did not want to deal with what is being written about modern Iraqi history and leave
        it to those who know about it better.
         
        Please distribute this email to your lists WITH APPRECIATION.
         
        Happy New Year,
        May Roberts


        --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Wafaa' Al-Natheema <aboutfromiraq@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        From: Wafaa' Al-Natheema <aboutfromiraq@ yahoo.com>
        Subject: [IRAQHistory] Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions in Documenting Moslems
        To: IRAQHistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 3:31 PM

         
        Greetings;
         
        Please add, edit and give feedback on the list below and email it to me
        WITH APPRECIATION,
         
        I appreciate receiving Wikipedia errors and misconceptions on modern Iraqi history and the Arab-Zionist conflict.
         
        Notice point 9 below!!!
         
        Have a wonderful holiday
        Wafaa' Al-Natheema
         
        //////////// ///////// ///////// ///////// //
         
         

        1. Both Al-Farabi (alpharabius) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina (Avicenna) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Avicenna are presented as Persians.  In the

        case of al-FarabiWikipedia enlisted two subtitles; one on his Persian origin backed supposedly by "historic sources" without using the term 'claim,' the other introduced his Turkic origin as a claim to denote its unreliability.  Both Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina were born and raised in Central Asia, particularly Afghanistan/ Uzbekistan, little to nothing known about the origin of their parents, both contributed during the Islamic erayet Wikipedia insists on refering to it incorrectly as the Persian empire or Samanid dynasty and categorizing these scientists as PERSIANS!!

         

         

        2.  Even though al-Farabi lived 40 years in Baghdad with no mention of him ever living or studying in any city in today's Iran, in the list of regional countries on the right side of the page, it enlisted:

         

        Region:

        Central Asia, Iran, Egypt and Syria

         

        3. The greatest Moslem chemist of his time Jabir bin Hayan al-Kufiborn and raised in Kufa, South of IRAQ http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Geber is according to Wikipedia born in Khorasan in Iran.  The Wikipedia page about this great scientist is filled with the mention of Persians and Persian language/thesis and Shiites-Umayyad/ Abbasid rivalry overshadowing his great inventions.  It includes a corrupted and a damaging account in the middle of the page under the subject title "The Geber Problem"

         

        4. When there are serious discrepancies about the ethnic and regional origin of the Moslem Scholars, the words 'Moslem Scholars' or 'Moslem Scientist' are placed above the personal portrait on the right side, yet when those are believed to be "definitely known" as Persians, the categorization above the portrait is typed 'Persian Scholar' for distinction. 

         

        5. Even though Ibn Al-Haytham was of Arab descent, Wikipedia enlists him as ' Arab and/or Persian' on the right-side Index and interestingly does not enlist his sect as normally mentioned about the so-called Persian scholars.  It makes a laughable documentation about Basra city being part of Persia by stating that he was "Born circa 965, near modern-day Basra, part of present-day Iraq, and then part of Buyid Persia,[1] ..........."

         

        6.  Al-Bayrooni or Al-Biruni http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Biruni has been documented as Persian eventhough the origin of his parents is unknown and that he was born in a city in today's Kazakhistan.  It typically mentions his sect (in the right-side list) during a time when there was no such categorization made in documentation.

         

        7. Jalalu~Ddine Rumi (the famous Sufi scholar) was born in Balkh, today's Afghanistan.  His father was an Arab, yet he is documented in this Wikipedia

        link as Persian: http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Jalal_ad- Din_Muhammad_ Rumi

        Even if his mother was Persian, his Arab lineage should be included.  Wikipedia

        states that Balkh (during Rumi's time) was part of the Persian empire!  Yet during Rumi's time there was no such a thing as Persian empire, it was an Islamic

        era /dynasty.

         

        8. 
        Ibn Zakariya Ar-Razi has been again labeled as Persian just because his family's name is said to mean 'from the city of Rayy' (if this is truly what it means) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Muhammad_ ibn_Zakar% C4%ABya_R% C4%81zi  Wikipedia states that

         

        "In Persian, Razi means "from the city of Rayy (also spelled Ray, Rey, or Rai, old Persian Ragha, Latin Rhagae -formerly one of the great cities of the World)", an ancient town on the southern slopes of the Elburz Range that skirts the south of the Caspian Sea, situated near Tehran, Iran. In this city (like Avicenna) he accomplished most of his work.[9 "

         

         

        9.  Al-Hasan al-Basri who was born in Medina in today's Saudi Arabia http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Hasan_al- Basri is being Persianized as well

        by stating his parents were Persians and many reliable sources indicate

        his Arab ancestry.

         

        PLEASE NOTE that as of December 23 the following was placed on

        the top of the Wikipedia page for al-Basri:

        Во имя знания!

        — Edward from Israel; donated $30

        (For the sake of knowledge!)

         

        ------------ -----

         

        In other words, no Moslem scholar (especially the famous) is presented in Wikipedia without being linked often incorrectly or unnecessarily to Persian

        ancestry!. 

         

         

        10. There is a seriously damaging sectarian inclusion provided in the Wikipedia pages presented under madh.hab or religion, which appears on the right side of the page by disclosing the sect as either Ismaeli or Shiite.  According to Wikipedia, none of the Moslem polymath were Arabs and nearly all of them were Persians and Shiites, which is incorrect!!   This has no relevance in documenting the history of people worldwide.  None of the Christian and Jewish polymaths, kings, artists and professionals are being categorized in Wikipedia or in any other encyclopedia by their sects (Orthodox, moderate Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and so on) whether in documenting the past or the present!.

         





      • May Roberts
          Dear Richard & Amr:   Thank you for following up on my questions and wonderings below.  I greatly appreciate it.   Unfortunately, most of the sources on
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 18, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
           
          Dear Richard & Amr:
           
          Thank you for following up on my questions and wonderings below.  I greatly appreciate it.
           
          Unfortunately, most of the sources on ancient Egypt, Persia and especially Mesopotamia have been based on western books/perceptions.  This is why when I read that part of ancient hisotry, I enjoy reading it, but don't take it for granted.
           
          For instance in western documentation, the Assyrians, Persians and Arabs have been portrayed as vicious and barabaric, but not the Greeks.  Cleopatra in western sources is tricky, ruthless, seductive and sexual, yet luckily an Egyptian (modern) scholar/historian, whom I forgot his name, wrote an objective book about her based on medieval Arab and Moslem historians!  They were perhaps the only historians to tackle her work in science, medicine, wisdom and the arts besides being a beautiful and seductive queen.  The information about his book was circulating over the Internet three or four years ago. Later I also heard of an American woman writing an objective account about Cleopatra in English and was interviewed on TV about her book, but I cann't remember her name either.  
           
          If you or anyone in this group know about these books and authors, I appreciate receiving the information at my personal address filmwriting2004@... since the subject matter is unrelated to Iraq history.
           
          Thanks again,
          May Roberts
           
           


          --- On Wed, 3/11/09, Amr Abyad <amr.abyad@...> wrote:
          From: Amr Abyad <amr.abyad@...>
          Subject: Re: [IRAQHistory] Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions to Document Moslem
          To: IRAQHistory@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 7:45 AM

          Dear May,
           

          I will share with you what I know about the issues you raised. Hopefully that will be useful. There is wide belief among scholars, not an unchallengeable one though, that all Semitic peoples in Mesopotamia and Syria as well as the Semitic component of Egypt originated from the Arabian Peninsula. The movements out of Arabia were in times of draught and/or overpopulation, while inward movements happened due pressures from rival groups.

           

          The origin of the Akkadians, however, in particular is more certain than the rest of Semites. Their origin is most probably from the east of the Arabian Peninsula, according to many scholars.

          It is also wrong to say that Medes were grappling with Assyrians over Northern Iraq, since it was actually the other way round. Also it is wrong to label the medes as Iranians, or else we would have to label Babylonians, Pharaohs and Assyrians as Arabs?

          The Semitic Assyrians dominated the western part of todays Iran, homeland of the Medes. The Medes were Indo-Aryan people, racially close to Achaemenids who were only called Persians around 600 B.C by the Greeks, but not by themselves.  Alas, towards the end of the 7th century B.C, Medes allied with the Semitic Chaldeans to destroy Assyria!!! Isn’t that just too reminiscent of what is happening today in the Arab world?

           

          As for the Mitanni, they are most probably Aryan people from Asia Minor, perhaps cousins of Greeks. They had played a role in ancient Arab history for a while as they settled in Mesopotamia and parts of greater Syria. Egyptians recorded many battles against them  for control over Syria.  What is certain, however, is that their cultural and racial influence in Mesopotamia remains highly negligible, as Ancient Iraq had always remained Semitic throughout ancient history, and modern one of course.

           

           

          Best regards,

          Amr

          On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Richard Sullivan <richardsullivan1942 @...> wrote:
          Dear May:
           
          I was going through old emails from this group and noticed yours below. I don't remember
          reading it.
           
          I noticed that since you've sent it, NOBODY responded to any of your history related questions below, which was unfortunate.  After you emailed it, the members became
          busy with the season's greetings and perhaps were busy with the holidays.
           
          You provided excellent points and raised very interesting questions, and I hope
          members of this group take the time and energy to answer or comment on
          some of what you've raised below.
           
          I will try myself to answer some of them shortly,
           
           
          Dear Wafaa:
           
          The list you provided had an outstanding information.  You have done a marvelous
          job.  I think you should post it on our group's blog and include it with your letter pertaining WIKIPEDIA.  I noticed that the blog has not been updated since last Summer.  No, no,
          this is not to add more responsibilites to you, but just a friendly reminder
           
           
          Best Regards,
          Richard Sullivan

          --- On Mon, 12/29/08, May Roberts <filmwriting2004@ yahoo.com> wrote:
          From: May Roberts <filmwriting2004@ yahoo.com>
          Subject: [IRAQHistory] Re: Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions in Documenting Moslems
          To: IRAQHistory@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 12:01 PM

          Thank you, Wafaa', for this informative list.  I hope other subscribers point out
          more errors in the next few days.
           
          I googled "history of IRAQ," and to my disappointment the Wikipedia link was
          at the top of the list of links.
           
          Since I am not a historian and know little about the history of IRAQ, I will
          make my points below in the form of questions, and I hope those knowledgeable
          about these points would share their knowledge and answer some questions.
           
          In this link about the history of IRAQ, please note the interesting appeal on the top of the page by Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ History_of_ Iraq
          and the link (in the top middle page) discussing the disputed material provided.
           
          My concerns and inqueries about what is being written in this page are as follows:
           
          1. In the link above, it reads;
          Sumerian dominance was challenged by the Akkadians, a Semitic people who migrated up from the Arabian Peninsula."
           
          I am aware of the fact that Akkadians were Semites, but I am not aware of the fact that they came from the Arabian Peninsula.  Is this true? 
           
          2. For the first time in my reading of ancient Iraqi history, I come across two groups of people that I never read on before and nobody (I asked) knew anything about them, yet Wikipedia mentions them; Mitanni and Medes!!  Do you know anything about them?  Have you read about them in Arabic or other languages?  I laughed when read "Medes (from Media)," capitalizing 'M', what do they mean by this?
           
          3. Under the subtitle, "Chaldeans," it reads, " At that time, Assyria was under considerable pressure from an Iranian people,"  The English here tells me that
          this page or at least this line was written by a non-Iraqi, non-Arab and non-Iranian.  "Pressure from an Iranian People"?  There was no such reference as Iranians in those ancient times.
           
          It really bother me when they use "People" after Arab, Iraqi, Iranian, Turkish and others
          whereas when they say/write Americans, British, French and all the more important citizens, they don't follow it by the term "People," as if to confirm that the former are people and not something else!
           
          The page provided a brief mention about Babylonians and Nabuchadnezzar, yet longer and poorly written "Persian Domination" paragraph.
           
          4. The map on the left side of the page under the paragraph "Arab conquest and Islamic
          Period" is strange.  They enlisted the periods of Caliphs excluding the Abbasid period.
          How can this be when they are discussing the history of IRAQ? A line must be added about the Abbasid period from 750 CE to 1258 CE.  The most alarming matter here is that they refer to the Arab period as a period of conquest as if there were no Arabs in IRAQ before Islam, which is WRONG and as if we, the modern people, are exactly sure that Sumerians, Babylonians and Assyrians were ALL native of IRAQ!!  Even though they stated that Akkadians came from the Arabian Peninsula, they didn't refere to their era as a conquest!!  They called every period in IRAQ by providing the name of the people only (i.e. Assyrians, Babylonians, Sumerians) or used the term "domination" with the Persians (which does not necessarily mean conquest by outsiders), but only with the Arab period, it is a conquest!!!
           
          I did not want to deal with what is being written about modern Iraqi history and leave
          it to those who know about it better.
           
          Please distribute this email to your lists WITH APPRECIATION.
           
          Happy New Year,
          May Roberts


          --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Wafaa' Al-Natheema <aboutfromiraq@ yahoo.com> wrote:
          From: Wafaa' Al-Natheema <aboutfromiraq@ yahoo.com>
          Subject: [IRAQHistory] Wikipedia: List of Errors & Misconceptions in Documenting Moslems
          To: IRAQHistory@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 3:31 PM

           
          Greetings;
           
          Please add, edit and give feedback on the list below and email it to me
          WITH APPRECIATION,
           
          I appreciate receiving Wikipedia errors and misconceptions on modern Iraqi history and the Arab-Zionist conflict.
           
          Notice point 9 below!!!
           
          Have a wonderful holiday
          Wafaa' Al-Natheema
           
          //////////// ///////// ///////// ///////// //
           
           
          1. Both Al-Farabi (alpharabius) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina (Avicenna) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Avicenna are presented as Persians.  In the
          case of al-FarabiWikipedia enlisted two subtitles; one on his Persian origin backed supposedly by "historic sources" without using the term 'claim,' the other introduced his Turkic origin as a claim to denote its unreliability.  Both Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina were born and raised in Central Asia, particularly Afghanistan/ Uzbekistan, little to nothing known about the origin of their parents, both contributed during the Islamic erayet Wikipedia insists on refering to it incorrectly as the Persian empire or Samanid dynasty and categorizing these scientists as PERSIANS!!
           
           
          2.  Even though al-Farabi lived 40 years in Baghdad with no mention of him ever living or studying in any city in today's Iran, in the list of regional countries on the right side of the page, it enlisted:
           

          Region:

           
          3. The greatest Moslem chemist of his time Jabir bin Hayan al-Kufiborn and raised in Kufa, South of IRAQ http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Geber is according to Wikipedia born in Khorasan in Iran.  The Wikipedia page about this great scientist is filled with the mention of Persians and Persian language/thesis and Shiites-Umayyad/ Abbasid rivalry overshadowing his great inventions.  It includes a corrupted and a damaging account in the middle of the page under the subject title "The Geber Problem"
           
          4. When there are serious discrepancies about the ethnic and regional origin of the Moslem Scholars, the words 'Moslem Scholars' or 'Moslem Scientist' are placed above the personal portrait on the right side, yet when those are believed to be "definitely known" as Persians, the categorization above the portrait is typed 'Persian Scholar' for distinction. 
           
          5. Even though Ibn Al-Haytham was of Arab descent, Wikipedia enlists him as ' Arab and/or Persian' on the right-side Index and interestingly does not enlist his sect as normally mentioned about the so-called Persian scholars.  It makes a laughable documentation about Basra city being part of Persia by stating that he was "Born circa 965, near modern-day Basra, part of present-day Iraq, and then part of Buyid Persia,[1] ..........."
           
          6.  Al-Bayrooni or Al-Biruni http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Biruni has been documented as Persian eventhough the origin of his parents is unknown and that he was born in a city in today's Kazakhistan.  It typically mentions his sect (in the right-side list) during a time when there was no such categorization made in documentation.
           
          7. Jalalu~Ddine Rumi (the famous Sufi scholar) was born in Balkh, today's Afghanistan.  His father was an Arab, yet he is documented in this Wikipedia
          link as Persian: http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Jalal_ad- Din_Muhammad_ Rumi
          Even if his mother was Persian, his Arab lineage should be included.  Wikipedia
          states that Balkh (during Rumi's time) was part of the Persian empire!  Yet during Rumi's time there was no such a thing as Persian empire, it was an Islamic
          era /dynasty.
           
          8. 
          Ibn Zakariya Ar-Razi has been again labeled as Persian just because his family's name is said to mean 'from the city of Rayy' (if this is truly what it means) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Muhammad_ ibn_Zakar% C4%ABya_R% C4%81zi  Wikipedia states that
           
          "In Persian, Razi means "from the city of Rayy (also spelled Ray, Rey, or Rai, old Persian Ragha, Latin Rhagae -formerly one of the great cities of the World)", an ancient town on the southern slopes of the Elburz Range that skirts the south of the Caspian Sea, situated near Tehran, Iran. In this city (like Avicenna) he accomplished most of his work.[9 "
           
           
          9.  Al-Hasan al-Basri who was born in Medina in today's Saudi Arabia http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Hasan_al- Basri is being Persianized as well
          by stating his parents were Persians and many reliable sources indicate
          his Arab ancestry.
           
          PLEASE NOTE that as of December 23 the following was placed on
          the top of the Wikipedia page for al-Basri:

          Во имя знания!

          — Edward from Israel; donated $30

          (For the sake of knowledge!)

           

          ------------ -----

           
          In other words, no Moslem scholar (especially the famous) is presented in Wikipedia without being linked often incorrectly or unnecessarily to Persian
          ancestry!. 
           
           
          10. There is a seriously damaging sectarian inclusion provided in the Wikipedia pages presented under madh.hab or religion, which appears on the right side of the page by disclosing the sect as either Ismaeli or Shiite.  According to Wikipedia, none of the Moslem polymath were Arabs and nearly all of them were Persians and Shiites, which is incorrect!!   This has no relevance in documenting the history of people worldwide.  None of the Christian and Jewish polymaths, kings, artists and professionals are being categorized in Wikipedia or in any other encyclopedia by their sects (Orthodox, moderate Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and so on) whether in documenting the past or the present!.
           





        • Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.