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Ganesh

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  • MLBD
    Dear Dr. Rao, Thanks for your mail of 29th October 2003 regarding the book: GANESHA by PAUL B.COURTRIGHT. Firstly, I am obliged that you have gone through
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 3, 2003
      Dear Dr. Rao,

      Thanks for your mail of 29th October 2003 regarding the book: GANESHA by
      PAUL B.COURTRIGHT.

      Firstly, I am obliged that you have gone through the book and made us aware
      about the extremely objectionable passages including the cover of the book.
      In fact, the book was published in 1985 by OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS and we
      never heard any adverse comments, hence without getting that reviewed we
      undertook the publication since it was originally published by an
      internationally established publisher. We did not care to go through the
      book thinking that this would be academically well acceptable.

      We are extremely sorry that the content of the book has hurt the sentiments
      of our beloved readers and the community at large. We offer our SINCEREST
      APOLOGIES to all our readers.

      We have already withdrawn the circulation of the book from the
      market and discontinued the sale.Further, we ensure that no such lapse shall
      ever occur in future. This need not be reiterated that MLBD has ever
      published any such offensive matter knowingly in the entire history of
      their publication for the last 100 years. Being one of the best known
      publishers devoted to Hinduism and ancient Indian culture we would never
      think to tarnish the
      image of any religion. This has been an omission on our part and we are
      really apologetic to the readers for its publication.

      May we request you to kindly circulate our letter of apology to various
      religious organisations, centres, and the Hindu community at large. A press
      release for the withdrawal of the circulation of the book has already been
      issued. We are also sending copies of this mail to various people around the
      world and would also like to have the E-mail addresses of other
      organisations, who we can inform for further circulation of this mail.

      ONCE AGAIN WE REGRET FOR THE PUBLICATION OF THE AFORESAID BOOK AND THANKS
      FOR INFORMING US OF SUCH OBJECTIONS.

      With kind regards,

      Sincerely,
      Rajeev Jain
      ---------------------------------------------
      Motilal Banarsidass Publishers
      41, U.A. Bungalow Road, Jawahar Nagar
      Delhi-110007, (India)
      Tel: (011) 23974826, 23918335, 23911985, 23932747
      (011) 25795180, 25793423, 25797356
      Fax:(011) 23930689, 25797221
      Email: mlbd@... , mlbd@...
      Website: www.mlbd.com , www.newagebooksindia.com

      *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
      CELEBRATING 100 YEARS OF PUBLISHING (1903-2003)
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    • Lars Martin Fosse
      What exactly is it that is so objectionable about the book? I found the following description of it on Amazon: Synopsis The elephant-headed god Gane sa is one
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 3, 2003
        What exactly is it that is so objectionable about the book?

        I found the following description of it on Amazon:

        Synopsis
        The elephant-headed god Gane'sa is one of the most important and popular
        gods throughout India and Hindu Southeast Asia. His image is found in
        virtually every Hindu home. In this detailed and comprehensive study of
        Gane'sa, Paul Courtright looks at the mythology and the psychological
        meanings of this god, his rituals and festivals, and the part played by
        Gane'sa in contemporary Indian politics. The American Council of Learned
        Societies named "Gane'sa" the best first book in the history of
        religions published in 1985.

        I am just curious.

        Lars Martin Fosse

        From:
        Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse
        Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114,
        0674 Oslo - Norway
        Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250
        Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45
        E-mail: lmfosse@...
        DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS.
        MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY
        MALICIOUS OPERATORS.


        > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
        > Fra: MLBD [mailto:mlbd@...]
        > Sendt: 3. november 2003 14:28
        > Til: INDOLOGY@yahoogroups.com
        > Emne: [Y-Indology] Ganesh
        >
        >
        > Dear Dr. Rao,
        >
        > Thanks for your mail of 29th October 2003 regarding the
        > book: GANESHA by PAUL B.COURTRIGHT.
        >
        > Firstly, I am obliged that you have gone through the book
        > and made us aware about the extremely objectionable passages
        > including the cover of the book. In fact, the book was
        > published in 1985 by OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS and we never
        > heard any adverse comments, hence without getting that
        > reviewed we undertook the publication since it was originally
        > published by an internationally established publisher. We did
        > not care to go through the book thinking that this would be
        > academically well acceptable.
        >
        > We are extremely sorry that the content of the book has hurt
        > the sentiments of our beloved readers and the community at
        > large. We offer our SINCEREST APOLOGIES to all our readers.
        >
        > We have already withdrawn the circulation of the book from
        > the market and discontinued the sale.Further, we ensure that
        > no such lapse shall ever occur in future. This need not be
        > reiterated that MLBD has ever published any such offensive
        > matter knowingly in the entire history of their publication
        > for the last 100 years. Being one of the best known
        > publishers devoted to Hinduism and ancient Indian culture we
        > would never think to tarnish the image of any religion. This
        > has been an omission on our part and we are really apologetic
        > to the readers for its publication.
        >
        > May we request you to kindly circulate our letter of apology
        > to various religious organisations, centres, and the Hindu
        > community at large. A press release for the withdrawal of the
        > circulation of the book has already been issued. We are also
        > sending copies of this mail to various people around the
        > world and would also like to have the E-mail addresses of
        > other organisations, who we can inform for further
        > circulation of this mail.
        >
        > ONCE AGAIN WE REGRET FOR THE PUBLICATION OF THE AFORESAID
        > BOOK AND THANKS FOR INFORMING US OF SUCH OBJECTIONS.
        >
        > With kind regards,
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Rajeev Jain
        > ---------------------------------------------
        > Motilal Banarsidass Publishers
        > 41, U.A. Bungalow Road, Jawahar Nagar
        > Delhi-110007, (India)
        > Tel: (011) 23974826, 23918335, 23911985, 23932747
        > (011) 25795180, 25793423, 25797356
        > Fax:(011) 23930689, 25797221
        > Email: mlbd@... , mlbd@...
        > Website: www.mlbd.com , www.newagebooksindia.com
        >
        > *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
        > CELEBRATING 100 YEARS OF PUBLISHING (1903-2003)
        > *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500
        > titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE!
        > http://us.click.yahoo.com/x> lw.sC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/x3XolB/> TM
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------
        > -------~->
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > indology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/> terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Narabali
        Dear List, I am searching to expand my books, and thus knowledge, on the topic of Vedism. I was wondering if you could be so kind as to assist me. I can only
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 3, 2003
          Dear List,

          I am searching to expand my books, and thus knowledge, on the topic
          of Vedism. I was wondering if you could be so kind as to assist me. I
          can only speak/read English at this point in time, although I am
          currently learning German. I am interested only in the religion and
          culture surrounding the four Vedas and not anything after it.

          If any of you would be so kind as to recommend any books on the
          subject I would be most grateful. Below I have compiled a listing of
          just some of the books that I currently own.

          Thank you all so very much for your time.



          Rgveda Translated by Griffith
          Rgveda Translated by O'Flaherty
          Rigveda Brahmanas Translated by Keith
          Black Yajurveda Translated by Keith
          Yajurveda Samhita Translated by Griffith
          Samaveda Translated by Griffith
          Atharvaveda Translated by Griffith
          Atharvaveda translated by Whitney
          Upansads Translated by Olivelle
          Taittiriya Upanisad Translated Prasad
          Pinnacles of India's Past. Selections from the Rgveda by Maurer
          Cooking the World by Malamoud
          The Artful Universe by Mahony
          The Agnihotra by Bodewitz
          Rice and Barley Offerings in the Veda by Gonda
          Vedic Index by Keith & Macdonell
          Heat and Sacrifice in the Vedas by Vesci
          Religion of the Veda by Oldenburg
          Religion and Philosophy of the Veda and Upanishads by Keith
          Vedic Mythollogy by Macdonell
          Vedic Sacrifices by Harshananda
          Agni: the Vedic Ritual of the Fire Altar by Staal
          Altar of Fire Video by Staal & Gardner
          Indra & Other Vedic Dieties by Chakravarty
          The Ravenous Hyenas and the Wounded Sun by Jamison
          Introduction to the IE Languages by Baldi
          A Vedic Grammer for Students by Macdonell
          The Origins and Development of Classical Hinduism by Basham
          Textual Sources for the Study of Hinduism by O'Flarety
          Sacred Sacrifice by Talbott
          Broken World of Sacrifice: An Essay in Ancient Indian Ritual by Heesterman

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Markandeswar Panda
          Dear Dr. Fosse, Here is a link, which has reproduced some of the statements made in the book. I have not read the book yet. Signatory Link :
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 3, 2003
            Dear Dr. Fosse,
            Here is a link, which has reproduced some of the statements made in
            the book. I have not read the book yet.

            Signatory Link : http://www.petitiononline.com/HSCULL/petition.html



            With regards,
            Dr. Markandeswar Panda
            Department of Biochemistry
            Univ. Texas Health Science Center
            San Antonio, TX 78229-3900
            U.S.A.
            Lars Martin Fosse wrote:

            > What exactly is it that is so objectionable about the book?
            >
            > I found the following description of it on Amazon:
            >
            > Synopsis
            > The elephant-headed god Gane'sa is one of the most important and popular
            > gods throughout India and Hindu Southeast Asia. His image is found in
            > virtually every Hindu home. In this detailed and comprehensive study of
            > Gane'sa, Paul Courtright looks at the mythology and the psychological
            > meanings of this god, his rituals and festivals, and the part played by
            > Gane'sa in contemporary Indian politics. The American Council of Learned
            > Societies named "Gane'sa" the best first book in the history of
            > religions published in 1985.
            >
            > I am just curious.
            >
            > Lars Martin Fosse
            >
            > From:
            > Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse
            > Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114,
            > 0674 Oslo - Norway
            > Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250
            > Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45
            > E-mail: lmfosse@...
            > DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS.
            > MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY
            > MALICIOUS OPERATORS.
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • vishalsagarwal
            ... I learnt about a petition circulating on this book today. I have not read the book personally, nor have signed the petition so far as I would like to read
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 3, 2003
              --- In INDOLOGY@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Martin Fosse" <lmfosse@o...>
              wrote:
              > What exactly is it that is so objectionable about the book?
              >
              > I found the following description of it on Amazon:
              >
              > Synopsis

              I learnt about a petition circulating on this book today. I have not
              read the book personally, nor have signed the petition so far as I
              would like to read the book forst. However, FYI, the petition
              contains the following quotations from that book -

              "Its (Ganesha's ) trunk is the displaced phallus, a caricature of
              Shiva's linga.
              It poses no threat because it is too large, flaccid, and in the wrong
              place to
              be useful for sexual purposes" (page 121)
              "So Ganesha takes on the attributes of his father but in an inverted
              form, with
              an exaggerated limp phallus-ascetic and benign whereas Siva is "hard"
              (un-dhvalinga) erotic and destructive." (page 121)
              "Both in his behavior and iconographic form Ganesha resembles in some
              aspects,
              the figure of the eunuch,Â…Ganesha is like eunuch guarding the women
              of the
              harem." (page 111)
              "Although there seems to be no myths or folk tales in which Ganesha
              explicitly
              performs oral sex; his insatiable apetite for sweets may be
              interpreted as an
              effort to satisfy a hunger that seems inappropriate in an otherwise
              ascetic
              disposition, a hunger having clear erotic overtones." (page 111)
              "Ganesha's broken tusks, his guardian's staff, and displaced head can
              be
              interpreted as symbols of castration." (page 111)

              Now, some academics are saying that the quotations have been taken
              out of context. I personally wonder how ny context (except if
              Courtright cited them as a purvapaksha) could justify such a
              statements, Freud or no Freud.

              So I would slightly disagree with V V Raman and argue that such books
              merely reflect the perversity of the author, not just insensitivity.

              BTW, defenders of the author are now in turn threatening MLBD that
              they will boycott the publisher and will not submit any manuscripts
              in future and will withdraw manuscripts submitted to him and under
              publication. I find this much more intimidating than the petition. It
              is plain academic terrorism.

              For that matter, how would the RISA-jans feel if Freudian techniques
              were applied to the author ('He suffers from Penis-Envy vis a vis Sri
              Ganesha) or to them as a group ('Risajans, who are defending the
              author of the book have a secret wish to be a part of a swinger's
              club')?

              Vishal
            • Lars Martin Fosse
              Thanks for filling me in. The picture becomes clearer. I have the following comments: 1. As a matter of principle, I defend Courtright s right to publish his
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 5, 2003
                Thanks for filling me in. The picture becomes clearer. I have the
                following comments:

                1. As a matter of principle, I defend Courtright's right to publish his
                book. That does not mean that I endorse what he says. Academia works in
                freedom-of-speech mode.

                2. Comparing the death threat against Courtright with the threat to
                boycott Motilal is certainly misplaced. We are talking about two very
                different dimensions here.

                3. Provided the quotes are correct, I still stand by my first gut level
                reaction: Courtright has read too much Freud. There are, in fact, Indian
                myths where Agni drinks semen, but I can't see that C. has the right to
                claim this in connection with Ganesa without any cultural or
                mythological material. I may change my mind if I read the whole book,
                but so far, I think he's gone a bit overboard. The broken tusk
                interpretation does not convince me either. But then I have never seen
                any Freudian interpretations of Indian mythology that sounded very
                convincing to me. They may of course exist.

                4. Given that there is ample space for rejecting his interpretations
                with a sound academic argument, the threats against him are not only
                morally unacceptable, they are also quite pathetic. It is the work of
                intellectual weaklings.

                End of comments.

                Lars Martin Fosse

                From:
                Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse
                Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114,
                0674 Oslo - Norway
                Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250
                Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45
                E-mail: lmfosse@...
                DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS.
                MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY
                MALICIOUS OPERATORS.


                > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                > Fra: vishalsagarwal [mailto:vishalsagarwal@...]
                > Sendt: 3. november 2003 21:50
                > Til: INDOLOGY@yahoogroups.com
                > Emne: Re: SV: [Y-Indology] Ganesh
                >
                >
                > --- In INDOLOGY@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Martin Fosse" <lmfosse@o...>
                > wrote:
                > > What exactly is it that is so objectionable about the book?
                > >
                > > I found the following description of it on Amazon:
                > >
                > > Synopsis
                >
                > I learnt about a petition circulating on this book today. I have not
                > read the book personally, nor have signed the petition so far as I
                > would like to read the book forst. However, FYI, the petition
                > contains the following quotations from that book -
                >
                > "Its (Ganesha's ) trunk is the displaced phallus, a caricature of
                > Shiva's linga.
                > It poses no threat because it is too large, flaccid, and in the wrong
                > place to
                > be useful for sexual purposes" (page 121)
                > "So Ganesha takes on the attributes of his father but in an inverted
                > form, with
                > an exaggerated limp phallus-ascetic and benign whereas Siva is "hard"
                > (un-dhvalinga) erotic and destructive." (page 121)
                > "Both in his behavior and iconographic form Ganesha resembles in some
                > aspects,
                > the figure of the eunuch,.Ganesha is like eunuch guarding the women
                > of the
                > harem." (page 111)
                > "Although there seems to be no myths or folk tales in which Ganesha
                > explicitly
                > performs oral sex; his insatiable apetite for sweets may be
                > interpreted as an
                > effort to satisfy a hunger that seems inappropriate in an otherwise
                > ascetic
                > disposition, a hunger having clear erotic overtones." (page
                > 111) "Ganesha's broken tusks, his guardian's staff, and
                > displaced head can
                > be
                > interpreted as symbols of castration." (page 111)
                >
                > Now, some academics are saying that the quotations have been taken
                > out of context. I personally wonder how ny context (except if
                > Courtright cited them as a purvapaksha) could justify such a
                > statements, Freud or no Freud.
                >
                > So I would slightly disagree with V V Raman and argue that such books
                > merely reflect the perversity of the author, not just insensitivity.
                >
                > BTW, defenders of the author are now in turn threatening MLBD that
                > they will boycott the publisher and will not submit any manuscripts
                > in future and will withdraw manuscripts submitted to him and under
                > publication. I find this much more intimidating than the petition. It
                > is plain academic terrorism.
                >
                > For that matter, how would the RISA-jans feel if Freudian techniques
                > were applied to the author ('He suffers from Penis-Envy vis a vis Sri
                > Ganesha) or to them as a group ('Risajans, who are defending the
                > author of the book have a secret wish to be a part of a swinger's
                > club')?
                >
                > Vishal
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500
                > titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE!
                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/x> lw.sC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/x3XolB/> TM
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------
                > -------~->
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > indology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/> terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • vishalsagarwal
                ... right to ... VA: Yes there are. And in fact, no one objects when MLBD publishes translations of the Brahmavaivarta and other Puranas with all such
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 5, 2003
                  --- In INDOLOGY@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Martin Fosse" <lmfosse@o...>
                  wrote:
                  >There are, in fact, Indian
                  > myths where Agni drinks semen, but I can't see that C. has the
                  right to
                  > claim this in connection with Ganesa without any cultural or
                  > mythological material.

                  VA: Yes there are. And in fact, no one objects when MLBD publishes
                  translations of the Brahmavaivarta and other Puranas with all such
                  descriptions. The texts obviously have to be published the way they
                  are, but interpretations are a totally different matter.
                  Unfortunately, there is just too much eroticization of Indian texts
                  these days, it has become a fad and more and more people have started
                  objecting to it. The reasons are the real life situations that we are
                  subjected to. Like my family members being accosted by perfect
                  strangers in the US and asked about Kamasutra (I am not joking on
                  this one - it really happened). Or someone approaching me and asking
                  me what I know about Tantric sex (again, this has happened). As if
                  there is nothing else in India.

                  What we see here however is an interpretation which is pornography
                  in my opinion, and I personally do not attach any legitmacy to such
                  interpretations. Banning a book is different from the publisher
                  withdrawing the book himself. The owners of MLBD are devout
                  Hindus/Jains. So let us respect their wishes. The question is not
                  necessarily of freedom of academicians. I could interpret it as an
                  attempt to pass of soft-pornography as scholarship.

                  There are many times more offensive books in the market. What does
                  surprise me is how this particular case got some much publicity and
                  attention? But then, life does not always follow logic.

                  Sincerely,

                  Vishal Agarwal
                • Bhadraiah Mallampalli
                  Prof Larse, I would argue exactly your way if I were in your place. But whatever is going on is not good for Indology as a discipline. Indians had always held
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 5, 2003
                    Prof Larse,

                    I would argue exactly your way if I were in your place.

                    But whatever is going on is not good for Indology as a discipline.
                    Indians had always held Indology in high esteem, from what I heard
                    from my elders.

                    Whatever bad blook spilled on these boards for last 10 years
                    (regarding the question whether Indology truly represents Indic
                    subjects, the AIT/AMT debates) hardly reached the living rooms of
                    Indians; and nobody would want to annoy guests at home with that kind
                    of stuff. I am afraid things may change, to the worse.

                    Would any Indological journal accept a synopsis of the book in
                    question? If not, I believe it shouldn't be a big deal to disown the
                    book as 'not Indology', as the book is not supported by any known
                    texts.

                    Kindly note that MLBD claims to be an Indological publisher. When the
                    book is not Indology any more their withdrawal makes sense.

                    Best regards
                    Bhadraiah
                  • Arjun Ray
                    ... This link will not work, because the petition has been taken off the active list at www.petitiononline.com, as of Nov 5th. I don t know if the site has an
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 5, 2003
                      Markandeswar Panda <panda@...> wrote:

                      | Here is a link, which has reproduced some of the statements made in
                      | the book. I have not read the book yet.
                      |
                      | Signatory Link : http://www.petitiononline.com/HSCULL/petition.html

                      This link will not work, because the petition has been taken off the
                      active list at www.petitiononline.com, as of Nov 5th. I don't know if the
                      site has an archive of discontinued petitions.

                      The petition was not addressed to presumed principals such as the author
                      (Courtright) or the publishers (Oxford University Press 1985 and Motilal
                      Banarsidass 2001). It was addressed to various authorities calling on
                      them to take steps to secure an apology, commit corrections and suppress
                      the present form of the book; in short, a call for patently censorious
                      action.

                      That the petition has been taken down following only MLBD's retraction may
                      be significant. I would hope that the full text of the petition, rather
                      than the excerpts from the book, were posted to mailing lists, websites
                      and other such outlets for publicity. The only copy I've seen so far is
                      this one:

                      http://www.sandiego.edu/theo/risa-l/archive/msg07216.html
                    • naga_ganesan
                      ... Scholars all over the world will study old texts, cultures and art, with aid from church or otherwise. Now that the world is much more interconnected,
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 5, 2003
                        --- In INDOLOGY@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Martin Fosse" <lmfosse@o...> wrote:
                        > There are, however, some problems that won't go away, even if
                        >scholars try to be sensitive. For instance, there is no doubt that
                        >Shiva's linga is a phallos - this is verifiable in various ways. Yet,
                        >most Hindus do not think about the linga as a phallos, they see it
                        >as a cosmic symbol, and some might be shocked if the origin of the
                        >symbol was pointed out. It is a well-known fact that sensibilities
                        >change with time, and the people who once introduced the linga as a
                        >religious symbol did not think of it as something shocking or bad,
                        >to the contrary.

                        Scholars all over the world will study old texts, cultures and art,
                        with aid from church or otherwise. Now that the world is much more
                        interconnected, awareness is spreading. "Discourses on Siva :
                        proceedings of a symposium on the nature of religious imagery" /
                        edited and with an introduction by Michael W. Meister. Publisher:
                        Philadelphia : University of Pennsylvania Press, 1984 has essays on
                        Siva lingam.

                        The earliest Hindu monument is the Gudimallam temple
                        near Madras and Tirupati. It's dated now to 3rd to 2nd century BCE,
                        Ananda Coomaraswamy has written about the Gudimallam
                        lingam, the cosmic pillar is clearly a phallic symbol in origins:
                        http://www.gunn.co.nz/anand/hinduism/lingum.html

                        What is interesting is the dwarf carrying the Gudimallan
                        Shiva with a parasu axe in his hand. Excavation by the ASI led by
                        I. Kartikeya Sarma shows the dwarf as either creature
                        living in water - either an alligator reptile or fish.
                        The alligator mouth in some ways is like the elephant proboscis.

                        Philip Rawson, Indian art,
                        Studio Vista:Dutton Picturebook, 1972
                        Look in p. 9 "Drawing of seal representing female
                        in intercourse with a phallic crocodile, c 2000 BC, stone,
                        from Harappa". Gharial is related to the tamil
                        word, karaa. Rawson's sketch is based on M.S.Vats 1943,

                        Vol. II, Plate XCIII (H-180A&B). The gharial
                        alligator shown by rawson is almost like
                        that in Fig. 10.1.d (p.180, Parpola, Deciphering
                        the Indus script). Two beautiful gharial descriptions
                        from Mohenhjadaro (amulets worn for fertility
                        - for children or plant harvest?):
                        http://www.harappa.com/script/parpola5.html
                        Another is the unicorn deity, Rishyashringa
                        and his associations have been discussed in Indological
                        works also.

                        -------------

                        Alice Getty, Ganesa (1936), R. L. Brown, Ganesh: studies
                        of an Asian god, SUNY: 1991, ... many have discussed
                        Ganapati. and Oedipus story. A.K. Ramanujan, early
                        in his career, wrote on oedipus myth in India, perhaps
                        he tells the same. I remember seeing erotic Ganesh
                        idols from South East Asia and Far East. There was
                        a similar controversy back in 1930s and 40s
                        in Tamil Nadu. The rationalists like EVR Naicker
                        and Annadurai mentioned the oedipal myths about
                        Vinayakar. Maramalai aTikaL opposed in public debates,
                        Atikal sais "en tAy kaLaGkam aRRavaL" (my mother
                        (Parvati) is blemishelss) or some thing like that.
                        E.Leach, Pulleyar and the Lord Buddha,
                        Psychoanalysis and the Psychoanalytic review
                        (1962): 80-102 perhaps tells these as pulleyar
                        is the colloquial for "piLLaiyaar" in Lanka.

                        See Indonesian tantric temple:
                        http://asiaforvisitors.com/indonesia/java/central/solo/sukah/

                        (Ganesh ?? there)
                        http://asiaforvisitors.com/indonesia/java/central/solo/sukah/fullsize/frie
                        ze8.jpg


                        Regards,
                        N. Ganesan
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