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the Huns and updated list

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  • Lorenzo Sartori
    The Huns are online (volume 8 - The Fall of Rome) followed soon by the Patrician Romans. Some list has been updated (for a better balancing), these are: New
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 4, 2007
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      The Huns are online (volume 8 - The Fall of Rome) followed soon by the Patrician Romans.

      Some list has been updated (for a better balancing), these are:

      New Kingdom Egyptian: added one CGL
      Hiitite Empire: added one CGL
      Marian Roman: removed 1 FP

      Lorenzo

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • elmitxel
      Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus. When to the sale? Pardon for my English XDDD
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 4, 2007
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        Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus.

        When to the sale?

        Pardon for my English XDDD
      • Lorenzo Sartori
        Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice pictures of armies or Units are welcome. Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few lists
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 5, 2007
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          Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice pictures of armies or Units are welcome.

          Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few lists leaving to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists, now we are working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.

          They will be standard lists, for example in the book you will find Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.

          Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical background, pictures and more lists on some periods.

          Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods

          For example (and it is just and example!!)

          Book 1
          The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman, Carthaginian, Spanish etc armies)
          The Crusades
          The 100YW
          The Great Italian Wars
          Samurai

          Book 2
          Age of Chariot
          Alexander the Great
          The age of Charlemagne
          Feudal Europe
          War in The New World

          ecc

          Lorenzo




          ----- Original Message -----
          From: elmitxel
          To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:34 PM
          Subject: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list


          Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus.

          When to the sale?

          Pardon for my English XDDD





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • claudio@baueda.com
          Ciao Lorenzo, not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn t be better go for separate rules and lists? I say that because I still see endless problem
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 5, 2007
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            Ciao Lorenzo,

            not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better go for
            separate rules and lists?
            I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM books, while
            everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention the business
            model...

            Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to allow people
            to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the standard lists
            you mention I'd guess.

            But then I'd make a single book per period if not per campaign, so one
            book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe hellenistic wars;
            one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so on...

            That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any issue that may
            show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!

            Ciao,

            Claudio

            > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice pictures of armies
            > or Units are welcome.
            >
            > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few lists leaving
            > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists, now we are
            > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
            >
            > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you will find
            > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
            >
            > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical background,
            > pictures and more lists on some periods.
            >
            > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
            >
            > For example (and it is just and example!!)
            >
            > Book 1
            > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman, Carthaginian,
            > Spanish etc armies)
            > The Crusades
            > The 100YW
            > The Great Italian Wars
            > Samurai
            >
            > Book 2
            > Age of Chariot
            > Alexander the Great
            > The age of Charlemagne
            > Feudal Europe
            > War in The New World
            >
            > ecc
            >
            > Lorenzo
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: elmitxel
            > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:34 PM
            > Subject: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
            >
            >
            > Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus.
            >
            > When to the sale?
            >
            > Pardon for my English XDDD
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Lorenzo Sartori
            Ciao Claudio, the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to permit most gamers to game at once. Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 5, 2007
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              Ciao Claudio,
              the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to permit most gamers to game at once.
              Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I will be asked to release this or that army (and this is not my main business).
              The booklets will take TIME and MONEY and apart Warhammer / GW or FOW that have money to invest and a lot of people to work at, publishing rules is not a great business.
              (well actually for GW bad sales see http://investor.games-workshop.com/investor_relations/financial_results/Results2006/full_year/businessreview.htm )

              So single periods books require a long work and more time. If you are waiting for the Crusades or the Great Italian Wars and you have to wait for 4 years as they will be covered on th 3rd or 4th booklet you get annoyed...

              As for everyone happy with WAB approach I'm not so sure as in Italy nobody play at it while DBM, DBA and now Basic Impetus are much more popular sets.
              This not to say the WAB books are crap or a bad idea. They are excellent and inspirational volumes worth just for the pictures. But not necessary a good business everywhere, above all if you have not tens of thousand euros to risk.


              Lorenzo







              ----- Original Message -----
              From: claudio@...
              To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:44 AM
              Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list


              Ciao Lorenzo,

              not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better go for
              separate rules and lists?
              I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM books, while
              everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention the business
              model...

              Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to allow people
              to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the standard lists
              you mention I'd guess.

              But then I'd make a single book per period if not per campaign, so one
              book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe hellenistic wars;
              one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so on...

              That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any issue that may
              show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!

              Ciao,

              Claudio

              > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice pictures of armies
              > or Units are welcome.
              >
              > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few lists leaving
              > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists, now we are
              > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
              >
              > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you will find
              > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
              >
              > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical background,
              > pictures and more lists on some periods.
              >
              > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
              >
              > For example (and it is just and example!!)
              >
              > Book 1
              > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman, Carthaginian,
              > Spanish etc armies)
              > The Crusades
              > The 100YW
              > The Great Italian Wars
              > Samurai
              >
              > Book 2
              > Age of Chariot
              > Alexander the Great
              > The age of Charlemagne
              > Feudal Europe
              > War in The New World
              >
              > ecc
              >
              > Lorenzo
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: elmitxel
              > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:34 PM
              > Subject: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
              >
              >
              > Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus.
              >
              > When to the sale?
              >
              > Pardon for my English XDDD
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • claudio@baueda.com
              Fair enough... I wasn t suggesting a publication like GW, that is very expensive to make for sure, but something like a DBM list book, but wholly dediacted to
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 5, 2007
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                Fair enough...
                I wasn't suggesting a publication like GW, that is very expensive to make
                for sure, but something like a DBM list book, but wholly dediacted to a
                small subperiod so you have more space to treat the argument in a more
                extended form, maybe with some illustrations and an introduction to the
                period and armies... illustrations are really cheap these days, I should
                know, I'm an illustrator! :) But anyway you can have 8th and 9th C
                excellent works reproduction righst for nearly zero... there are also many
                re-enactment groups and archeology fans on the net that will happily
                provide you with text and pictures for free...

                Another advantage of doing a booklet per period, even a DBM style one, is
                that you can add specific rules and clarifications that apply, so for
                instance the book on biblical armies can have a few extra pages on how
                chariots work, that on the hellenic period some phalanx explanation etc.
                You could even tweak some value on a per-period base, so that egyptian
                archers would be less powerful in their period and mongol ones better in
                theirs, but this could create issues for an open toutnament I guess...

                Anyway, just a bunch of suggestion, is your call obviously!

                All the best,

                Claudio

                > Ciao Claudio,
                > the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to permit most
                > gamers to game at once.
                > Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I will be asked to
                > release this or that army (and this is not my main business).
                > The booklets will take TIME and MONEY and apart Warhammer / GW or FOW
                > that have money to invest and a lot of people to work at, publishing rules
                > is not a great business.
                > (well actually for GW bad sales see
                > http://investor.games-workshop.com/investor_relations/financial_results/Results2006/full_year/businessreview.htm
                > )
                >
                > So single periods books require a long work and more time. If you are
                > waiting for the Crusades or the Great Italian Wars and you have to wait
                > for 4 years as they will be covered on th 3rd or 4th booklet you get
                > annoyed...
                >
                > As for everyone happy with WAB approach I'm not so sure as in Italy nobody
                > play at it while DBM, DBA and now Basic Impetus are much more popular
                > sets.
                > This not to say the WAB books are crap or a bad idea. They are excellent
                > and inspirational volumes worth just for the pictures. But not necessary a
                > good business everywhere, above all if you have not tens of thousand euros
                > to risk.
                >
                >
                > Lorenzo
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: claudio@...
                > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:44 AM
                > Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                >
                >
                > Ciao Lorenzo,
                >
                > not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better go for
                > separate rules and lists?
                > I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM books,
                > while
                > everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention the business
                > model...
                >
                > Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to allow
                > people
                > to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the standard
                > lists
                > you mention I'd guess.
                >
                > But then I'd make a single book per period if not per campaign, so one
                > book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe hellenistic
                > wars;
                > one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so on...
                >
                > That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any issue that
                > may
                > show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!
                >
                > Ciao,
                >
                > Claudio
                >
                > > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice pictures of
                > armies
                > > or Units are welcome.
                > >
                > > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few lists
                > leaving
                > > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists, now we are
                > > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
                > >
                > > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you will find
                > > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
                > >
                > > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical
                > background,
                > > pictures and more lists on some periods.
                > >
                > > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
                > >
                > > For example (and it is just and example!!)
                > >
                > > Book 1
                > > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman, Carthaginian,
                > > Spanish etc armies)
                > > The Crusades
                > > The 100YW
                > > The Great Italian Wars
                > > Samurai
                > >
                > > Book 2
                > > Age of Chariot
                > > Alexander the Great
                > > The age of Charlemagne
                > > Feudal Europe
                > > War in The New World
                > >
                > > ecc
                > >
                > > Lorenzo
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: elmitxel
                > > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:34 PM
                > > Subject: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                > >
                > >
                > > Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus.
                > >
                > > When to the sale?
                > >
                > > Pardon for my English XDDD
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Lorenzo Sartori
                I think that DBM style booklets belong to the last Century . So easy to photocopy that its far better to give the content free via web. The original idea was
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 5, 2007
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                  I think that DBM style booklets belong to the "last Century". So easy to photocopy that its far better to give the content free via web.
                  The original idea was to use the magazine for "supplements" but I don't want to annoy D&P readers that don't play Impetus. Still the magazine will host scenarios or articles about, but in less invasive way. I think that articles like the one on Imperial Roman Armies for Basic Impetus (D&P 27 - Early & Middle Imperial- and in the forthcoming issue 28 - late Imperial) are worth also for not Impetus gamers.
                  On contrary some special booklets, well illustrated and with colour pages can be like a sort of magazine special issues / support for the Impetus gamer. 1 or 2 per year to keep the gamer updated, with new armies, historical background and explanation on tactics like you suggest.
                  Running a magazine I have learnt that balance in contents is the key.

                  ciao
                  Lorenzo


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: claudio@...
                  To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:14 PM
                  Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list


                  Fair enough...
                  I wasn't suggesting a publication like GW, that is very expensive to make
                  for sure, but something like a DBM list book, but wholly dediacted to a
                  small subperiod so you have more space to treat the argument in a more
                  extended form, maybe with some illustrations and an introduction to the
                  period and armies... illustrations are really cheap these days, I should
                  know, I'm an illustrator! :) But anyway you can have 8th and 9th C
                  excellent works reproduction righst for nearly zero... there are also many
                  re-enactment groups and archeology fans on the net that will happily
                  provide you with text and pictures for free...

                  Another advantage of doing a booklet per period, even a DBM style one, is
                  that you can add specific rules and clarifications that apply, so for
                  instance the book on biblical armies can have a few extra pages on how
                  chariots work, that on the hellenic period some phalanx explanation etc.
                  You could even tweak some value on a per-period base, so that egyptian
                  archers would be less powerful in their period and mongol ones better in
                  theirs, but this could create issues for an open toutnament I guess...

                  Anyway, just a bunch of suggestion, is your call obviously!

                  All the best,

                  Claudio

                  > Ciao Claudio,
                  > the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to permit most
                  > gamers to game at once.
                  > Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I will be asked to
                  > release this or that army (and this is not my main business).
                  > The booklets will take TIME and MONEY and apart Warhammer / GW or FOW
                  > that have money to invest and a lot of people to work at, publishing rules
                  > is not a great business.
                  > (well actually for GW bad sales see
                  > http://investor.games-workshop.com/investor_relations/financial_results/Results2006/full_year/businessreview.htm
                  > )
                  >
                  > So single periods books require a long work and more time. If you are
                  > waiting for the Crusades or the Great Italian Wars and you have to wait
                  > for 4 years as they will be covered on th 3rd or 4th booklet you get
                  > annoyed...
                  >
                  > As for everyone happy with WAB approach I'm not so sure as in Italy nobody
                  > play at it while DBM, DBA and now Basic Impetus are much more popular
                  > sets.
                  > This not to say the WAB books are crap or a bad idea. They are excellent
                  > and inspirational volumes worth just for the pictures. But not necessary a
                  > good business everywhere, above all if you have not tens of thousand euros
                  > to risk.
                  >
                  >
                  > Lorenzo
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: claudio@...
                  > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:44 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                  >
                  >
                  > Ciao Lorenzo,
                  >
                  > not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better go for
                  > separate rules and lists?
                  > I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM books,
                  > while
                  > everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention the business
                  > model...
                  >
                  > Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to allow
                  > people
                  > to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the standard
                  > lists
                  > you mention I'd guess.
                  >
                  > But then I'd make a single book per period if not per campaign, so one
                  > book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe hellenistic
                  > wars;
                  > one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so on...
                  >
                  > That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any issue that
                  > may
                  > show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!
                  >
                  > Ciao,
                  >
                  > Claudio
                  >
                  > > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice pictures of
                  > armies
                  > > or Units are welcome.
                  > >
                  > > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few lists
                  > leaving
                  > > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists, now we are
                  > > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
                  > >
                  > > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you will find
                  > > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
                  > >
                  > > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical
                  > background,
                  > > pictures and more lists on some periods.
                  > >
                  > > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
                  > >
                  > > For example (and it is just and example!!)
                  > >
                  > > Book 1
                  > > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman, Carthaginian,
                  > > Spanish etc armies)
                  > > The Crusades
                  > > The 100YW
                  > > The Great Italian Wars
                  > > Samurai
                  > >
                  > > Book 2
                  > > Age of Chariot
                  > > Alexander the Great
                  > > The age of Charlemagne
                  > > Feudal Europe
                  > > War in The New World
                  > >
                  > > ecc
                  > >
                  > > Lorenzo
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: elmitxel
                  > > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:34 PM
                  > > Subject: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus.
                  > >
                  > > When to the sale?
                  > >
                  > > Pardon for my English XDDD
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • thecarthaginian
                  I strongly agree with Lorenzo here. I think the opposite is true and people are much more pleased with the DBM approach, where the lists stay true for a while
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 6, 2007
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                    I strongly agree with Lorenzo here. I think the opposite is true and
                    people are much more pleased with the DBM approach, where the lists
                    stay true for a while though the rules may change. It´s more player-
                    friendly, either.

                    By the way: Happy New Year to all I haven´t said it yet.

                    Marc

                    --- In IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com, "Lorenzo Sartori" <losart@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think that DBM style booklets belong to the "last Century". So
                    easy to photocopy that its far better to give the content free via
                    web.
                    > The original idea was to use the magazine for "supplements" but I
                    don't want to annoy D&P readers that don't play Impetus. Still the
                    magazine will host scenarios or articles about, but in less invasive
                    way. I think that articles like the one on Imperial Roman Armies for
                    Basic Impetus (D&P 27 - Early & Middle Imperial- and in the
                    forthcoming issue 28 - late Imperial) are worth also for not Impetus
                    gamers.
                    > On contrary some special booklets, well illustrated and with colour
                    pages can be like a sort of magazine special issues / support for the
                    Impetus gamer. 1 or 2 per year to keep the gamer updated, with new
                    armies, historical background and explanation on tactics like you
                    suggest.
                    > Running a magazine I have learnt that balance in contents is the
                    key.
                    >
                    > ciao
                    > Lorenzo
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: claudio@...
                    > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:14 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                    >
                    >
                    > Fair enough...
                    > I wasn't suggesting a publication like GW, that is very expensive
                    to make
                    > for sure, but something like a DBM list book, but wholly
                    dediacted to a
                    > small subperiod so you have more space to treat the argument in a
                    more
                    > extended form, maybe with some illustrations and an introduction
                    to the
                    > period and armies... illustrations are really cheap these days, I
                    should
                    > know, I'm an illustrator! :) But anyway you can have 8th and 9th C
                    > excellent works reproduction righst for nearly zero... there are
                    also many
                    > re-enactment groups and archeology fans on the net that will
                    happily
                    > provide you with text and pictures for free...
                    >
                    > Another advantage of doing a booklet per period, even a DBM style
                    one, is
                    > that you can add specific rules and clarifications that apply, so
                    for
                    > instance the book on biblical armies can have a few extra pages
                    on how
                    > chariots work, that on the hellenic period some phalanx
                    explanation etc.
                    > You could even tweak some value on a per-period base, so that
                    egyptian
                    > archers would be less powerful in their period and mongol ones
                    better in
                    > theirs, but this could create issues for an open toutnament I
                    guess...
                    >
                    > Anyway, just a bunch of suggestion, is your call obviously!
                    >
                    > All the best,
                    >
                    > Claudio
                    >
                    > > Ciao Claudio,
                    > > the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to permit
                    most
                    > > gamers to game at once.
                    > > Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I will be
                    asked to
                    > > release this or that army (and this is not my main business).
                    > > The booklets will take TIME and MONEY and apart Warhammer / GW
                    or FOW
                    > > that have money to invest and a lot of people to work at,
                    publishing rules
                    > > is not a great business.
                    > > (well actually for GW bad sales see
                    > > http://investor.games-workshop.com/investor_relations/
                    financial_results/Results2006/full_year/businessreview.htm
                    > > )
                    > >
                    > > So single periods books require a long work and more time. If
                    you are
                    > > waiting for the Crusades or the Great Italian Wars and you have
                    to wait
                    > > for 4 years as they will be covered on th 3rd or 4th booklet
                    you get
                    > > annoyed...
                    > >
                    > > As for everyone happy with WAB approach I'm not so sure as in
                    Italy nobody
                    > > play at it while DBM, DBA and now Basic Impetus are much more
                    popular
                    > > sets.
                    > > This not to say the WAB books are crap or a bad idea. They are
                    excellent
                    > > and inspirational volumes worth just for the pictures. But not
                    necessary a
                    > > good business everywhere, above all if you have not tens of
                    thousand euros
                    > > to risk.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Lorenzo
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: claudio@...
                    > > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:44 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Ciao Lorenzo,
                    > >
                    > > not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better
                    go for
                    > > separate rules and lists?
                    > > I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM
                    books,
                    > > while
                    > > everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention the
                    business
                    > > model...
                    > >
                    > > Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to
                    allow
                    > > people
                    > > to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the
                    standard
                    > > lists
                    > > you mention I'd guess.
                    > >
                    > > But then I'd make a single book per period if not per campaign,
                    so one
                    > > book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe
                    hellenistic
                    > > wars;
                    > > one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so on...
                    > >
                    > > That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any
                    issue that
                    > > may
                    > > show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!
                    > >
                    > > Ciao,
                    > >
                    > > Claudio
                    > >
                    > > > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice
                    pictures of
                    > > armies
                    > > > or Units are welcome.
                    > > >
                    > > > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few
                    lists
                    > > leaving
                    > > > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists, now
                    we are
                    > > > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
                    > > >
                    > > > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you will
                    find
                    > > > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
                    > > >
                    > > > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical
                    > > background,
                    > > > pictures and more lists on some periods.
                    > > >
                    > > > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
                    > > >
                    > > > For example (and it is just and example!!)
                    > > >
                    > > > Book 1
                    > > > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman,
                    Carthaginian,
                    > > > Spanish etc armies)
                    > > > The Crusades
                    > > > The 100YW
                    > > > The Great Italian Wars
                    > > > Samurai
                    > > >
                    > > > Book 2
                    > > > Age of Chariot
                    > > > Alexander the Great
                    > > > The age of Charlemagne
                    > > > Feudal Europe
                    > > > War in The New World
                    > > >
                    > > > ecc
                    > > >
                    > > > Lorenzo
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: elmitxel
                    > > > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:34 PM
                    > > > Subject: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Ok, Lorenzo, expecting to the Impetus.
                    > > >
                    > > > When to the sale?
                    > > >
                    > > > Pardon for my English XDDD
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • claudio@baueda.com
                    Apologies for not been able to explain myself clearly, as it s obvious from the answers... :) 1) I also think rules and lists are better separate, which as I
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 6, 2007
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                      Apologies for not been able to explain myself clearly, as it's obvious
                      from the answers... :)

                      1) I also think rules and lists are better separate, which as I understand
                      is the opposite of what Lorenzo is planning.

                      2) When I said something like a DBM list book I meant in size, not in the
                      sense of a bunch of BW photocopies stapled together... WAB books are large
                      A4 things, with perfect bound, heavy coated paper, hard cover etc. I was
                      thinking at something half-way, a full color booklet, the size of a DBM
                      list book also in term of pages, with pictures, diagarams, list
                      clarifications, examples, etc. think of a comic book for instance... that
                      should be considerably cheaper to publish.

                      3) I mentioned the problems with the DBM army list books thinking mainly
                      at the AP factors built in. That makes impossible to change an element AP
                      values to rebalance the game when a rules update is released, and AFAIK
                      everyone has complained about that since 1.0 was out. What I meant with
                      the comparison was that the list IMHO should also be visually appealing
                      and complete with support and references like the wab books (without
                      necessarily be the same size and cost).

                      Now all this is just my humble opinion, so feel free to disagree as much
                      as you like obviously, but please disagree with what I actually mean, and
                      forgive me for not explain it better in the first place... :)

                      Cheers

                      Claudio



                      > I strongly agree with Lorenzo here. I think the opposite is true and
                      > people are much more pleased with the DBM approach, where the lists
                      > stay true for a while though the rules may change. It´s more player-
                      > friendly, either.
                      >
                      > By the way: Happy New Year to all I haven´t said it yet.
                      >
                      > Marc
                      >
                      > --- In IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com, "Lorenzo Sartori" <losart@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> I think that DBM style booklets belong to the "last Century". So
                      > easy to photocopy that its far better to give the content free via
                      > web.
                      >> The original idea was to use the magazine for "supplements" but I
                      > don't want to annoy D&P readers that don't play Impetus. Still the
                      > magazine will host scenarios or articles about, but in less invasive
                      > way. I think that articles like the one on Imperial Roman Armies for
                      > Basic Impetus (D&P 27 - Early & Middle Imperial- and in the
                      > forthcoming issue 28 - late Imperial) are worth also for not Impetus
                      > gamers.
                      >> On contrary some special booklets, well illustrated and with colour
                      > pages can be like a sort of magazine special issues / support for the
                      > Impetus gamer. 1 or 2 per year to keep the gamer updated, with new
                      > armies, historical background and explanation on tactics like you
                      > suggest.
                      >> Running a magazine I have learnt that balance in contents is the
                      > key.
                      >>
                      >> ciao
                      >> Lorenzo
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: claudio@...
                      >> To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:14 PM
                      >> Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Fair enough...
                      >> I wasn't suggesting a publication like GW, that is very expensive
                      > to make
                      >> for sure, but something like a DBM list book, but wholly
                      > dediacted to a
                      >> small subperiod so you have more space to treat the argument in a
                      > more
                      >> extended form, maybe with some illustrations and an introduction
                      > to the
                      >> period and armies... illustrations are really cheap these days, I
                      > should
                      >> know, I'm an illustrator! :) But anyway you can have 8th and 9th C
                      >> excellent works reproduction righst for nearly zero... there are
                      > also many
                      >> re-enactment groups and archeology fans on the net that will
                      > happily
                      >> provide you with text and pictures for free...
                      >>
                      >> Another advantage of doing a booklet per period, even a DBM style
                      > one, is
                      >> that you can add specific rules and clarifications that apply, so
                      > for
                      >> instance the book on biblical armies can have a few extra pages
                      > on how
                      >> chariots work, that on the hellenic period some phalanx
                      > explanation etc.
                      >> You could even tweak some value on a per-period base, so that
                      > egyptian
                      >> archers would be less powerful in their period and mongol ones
                      > better in
                      >> theirs, but this could create issues for an open toutnament I
                      > guess...
                      >>
                      >> Anyway, just a bunch of suggestion, is your call obviously!
                      >>
                      >> All the best,
                      >>
                      >> Claudio
                      >>
                      >> > Ciao Claudio,
                      >> > the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to permit
                      > most
                      >> > gamers to game at once.
                      >> > Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I will be
                      > asked to
                      >> > release this or that army (and this is not my main business).
                      >> > The booklets will take TIME and MONEY and apart Warhammer / GW
                      > or FOW
                      >> > that have money to invest and a lot of people to work at,
                      > publishing rules
                      >> > is not a great business.
                      >> > (well actually for GW bad sales see
                      >> > http://investor.games-workshop.com/investor_relations/
                      > financial_results/Results2006/full_year/businessreview.htm
                      >> > )
                      >> >
                      >> > So single periods books require a long work and more time. If
                      > you are
                      >> > waiting for the Crusades or the Great Italian Wars and you have
                      > to wait
                      >> > for 4 years as they will be covered on th 3rd or 4th booklet
                      > you get
                      >> > annoyed...
                      >> >
                      >> > As for everyone happy with WAB approach I'm not so sure as in
                      > Italy nobody
                      >> > play at it while DBM, DBA and now Basic Impetus are much more
                      > popular
                      >> > sets.
                      >> > This not to say the WAB books are crap or a bad idea. They are
                      > excellent
                      >> > and inspirational volumes worth just for the pictures. But not
                      > necessary a
                      >> > good business everywhere, above all if you have not tens of
                      > thousand euros
                      >> > to risk.
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Lorenzo
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                      >> > From: claudio@...
                      >> > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                      >> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:44 AM
                      >> > Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Ciao Lorenzo,
                      >> >
                      >> > not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better
                      > go for
                      >> > separate rules and lists?
                      >> > I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM
                      > books,
                      >> > while
                      >> > everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention the
                      > business
                      >> > model...
                      >> >
                      >> > Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to
                      > allow
                      >> > people
                      >> > to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the
                      > standard
                      >> > lists
                      >> > you mention I'd guess.
                      >> >
                      >> > But then I'd make a single book per period if not per campaign,
                      > so one
                      >> > book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe
                      > hellenistic
                      >> > wars;
                      >> > one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so on...
                      >> >
                      >> > That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any
                      > issue that
                      >> > may
                      >> > show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!
                      >> >
                      >> > Ciao,
                      >> >
                      >> > Claudio
                      >> >
                      >> > > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice
                      > pictures of
                      >> > armies
                      >> > > or Units are welcome.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few
                      > lists
                      >> > leaving
                      >> > > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists, now
                      > we are
                      >> > > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you will
                      > find
                      >> > > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical
                      >> > background,
                      >> > > pictures and more lists on some periods.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
                      >> > >
                      >> > > For example (and it is just and example!!)
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Book 1
                      >> > > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman,
                      > Carthaginian,
                      >> > > Spanish etc armies)
                      >> > > The Crusades
                      >> > > The 100YW
                      >> > > The Great Italian Wars
                      >> > > Samurai
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Book 2
                      >> > > Age of Chariot
                      >> > > Alexander the Great
                      >> > > The age of Charlemagne
                      >> > > Feudal Europe
                      >> > > War in The New World
                      >> > >
                      >> > > ecc
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Lorenzo
                      >> > >
                      >> > >
                    • thecarthaginian
                      With this, I don´t agree, but I agree. But I have no doubt anyway that Lorenzo will publish high quality copies with not only content, but also something for
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 6, 2007
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                        With this, I don´t agree, but I agree.

                        But I have no doubt anyway that Lorenzo will publish high quality
                        copies with not only content, but also something for the eyes.

                        Regards,

                        Marc

                        --- In IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com, claudio@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Apologies for not been able to explain myself clearly, as it's
                        obvious
                        > from the answers... :)
                        >
                        > 1) I also think rules and lists are better separate, which as I
                        understand
                        > is the opposite of what Lorenzo is planning.
                        >
                        > 2) When I said something like a DBM list book I meant in size, not
                        in the
                        > sense of a bunch of BW photocopies stapled together... WAB books
                        are large
                        > A4 things, with perfect bound, heavy coated paper, hard cover etc.
                        I was
                        > thinking at something half-way, a full color booklet, the size of a
                        DBM
                        > list book also in term of pages, with pictures, diagarams, list
                        > clarifications, examples, etc. think of a comic book for
                        instance... that
                        > should be considerably cheaper to publish.
                        >
                        > 3) I mentioned the problems with the DBM army list books thinking
                        mainly
                        > at the AP factors built in. That makes impossible to change an
                        element AP
                        > values to rebalance the game when a rules update is released, and
                        AFAIK
                        > everyone has complained about that since 1.0 was out. What I meant
                        with
                        > the comparison was that the list IMHO should also be visually
                        appealing
                        > and complete with support and references like the wab books (without
                        > necessarily be the same size and cost).
                        >
                        > Now all this is just my humble opinion, so feel free to disagree as
                        much
                        > as you like obviously, but please disagree with what I actually
                        mean, and
                        > forgive me for not explain it better in the first place... :)
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        >
                        > Claudio
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > I strongly agree with Lorenzo here. I think the opposite is true
                        and
                        > > people are much more pleased with the DBM approach, where the
                        lists
                        > > stay true for a while though the rules may change. It´s more
                        player-
                        > > friendly, either.
                        > >
                        > > By the way: Happy New Year to all I haven´t said it yet.
                        > >
                        > > Marc
                        > >
                        > > --- In IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com, "Lorenzo Sartori" <losart@> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> I think that DBM style booklets belong to the "last Century". So
                        > > easy to photocopy that its far better to give the content free via
                        > > web.
                        > >> The original idea was to use the magazine for "supplements" but I
                        > > don't want to annoy D&P readers that don't play Impetus. Still the
                        > > magazine will host scenarios or articles about, but in less
                        invasive
                        > > way. I think that articles like the one on Imperial Roman Armies
                        for
                        > > Basic Impetus (D&P 27 - Early & Middle Imperial- and in the
                        > > forthcoming issue 28 - late Imperial) are worth also for not
                        Impetus
                        > > gamers.
                        > >> On contrary some special booklets, well illustrated and with
                        colour
                        > > pages can be like a sort of magazine special issues / support for
                        the
                        > > Impetus gamer. 1 or 2 per year to keep the gamer updated, with new
                        > > armies, historical background and explanation on tactics like you
                        > > suggest.
                        > >> Running a magazine I have learnt that balance in contents is the
                        > > key.
                        > >>
                        > >> ciao
                        > >> Lorenzo
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> ----- Original Message -----
                        > >> From: claudio@
                        > >> To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                        > >> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:14 PM
                        > >> Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Fair enough...
                        > >> I wasn't suggesting a publication like GW, that is very
                        expensive
                        > > to make
                        > >> for sure, but something like a DBM list book, but wholly
                        > > dediacted to a
                        > >> small subperiod so you have more space to treat the argument
                        in a
                        > > more
                        > >> extended form, maybe with some illustrations and an
                        introduction
                        > > to the
                        > >> period and armies... illustrations are really cheap these
                        days, I
                        > > should
                        > >> know, I'm an illustrator! :) But anyway you can have 8th and
                        9th C
                        > >> excellent works reproduction righst for nearly zero... there
                        are
                        > > also many
                        > >> re-enactment groups and archeology fans on the net that will
                        > > happily
                        > >> provide you with text and pictures for free...
                        > >>
                        > >> Another advantage of doing a booklet per period, even a DBM
                        style
                        > > one, is
                        > >> that you can add specific rules and clarifications that apply,
                        so
                        > > for
                        > >> instance the book on biblical armies can have a few extra pages
                        > > on how
                        > >> chariots work, that on the hellenic period some phalanx
                        > > explanation etc.
                        > >> You could even tweak some value on a per-period base, so that
                        > > egyptian
                        > >> archers would be less powerful in their period and mongol ones
                        > > better in
                        > >> theirs, but this could create issues for an open toutnament I
                        > > guess...
                        > >>
                        > >> Anyway, just a bunch of suggestion, is your call obviously!
                        > >>
                        > >> All the best,
                        > >>
                        > >> Claudio
                        > >>
                        > >> > Ciao Claudio,
                        > >> > the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to
                        permit
                        > > most
                        > >> > gamers to game at once.
                        > >> > Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I will be
                        > > asked to
                        > >> > release this or that army (and this is not my main business).
                        > >> > The booklets will take TIME and MONEY and apart Warhammer /
                        GW
                        > > or FOW
                        > >> > that have money to invest and a lot of people to work at,
                        > > publishing rules
                        > >> > is not a great business.
                        > >> > (well actually for GW bad sales see
                        > >> > http://investor.games-workshop.com/investor_relations/
                        > > financial_results/Results2006/full_year/businessreview.htm
                        > >> > )
                        > >> >
                        > >> > So single periods books require a long work and more time. If
                        > > you are
                        > >> > waiting for the Crusades or the Great Italian Wars and you
                        have
                        > > to wait
                        > >> > for 4 years as they will be covered on th 3rd or 4th booklet
                        > > you get
                        > >> > annoyed...
                        > >> >
                        > >> > As for everyone happy with WAB approach I'm not so sure as in
                        > > Italy nobody
                        > >> > play at it while DBM, DBA and now Basic Impetus are much more
                        > > popular
                        > >> > sets.
                        > >> > This not to say the WAB books are crap or a bad idea. They
                        are
                        > > excellent
                        > >> > and inspirational volumes worth just for the pictures. But
                        not
                        > > necessary a
                        > >> > good business everywhere, above all if you have not tens of
                        > > thousand euros
                        > >> > to risk.
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Lorenzo
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > ----- Original Message -----
                        > >> > From: claudio@
                        > >> > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                        > >> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:44 AM
                        > >> > Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Ciao Lorenzo,
                        > >> >
                        > >> > not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better
                        > > go for
                        > >> > separate rules and lists?
                        > >> > I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM
                        > > books,
                        > >> > while
                        > >> > everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention
                        the
                        > > business
                        > >> > model...
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to
                        > > allow
                        > >> > people
                        > >> > to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the
                        > > standard
                        > >> > lists
                        > >> > you mention I'd guess.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > But then I'd make a single book per period if not per
                        campaign,
                        > > so one
                        > >> > book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe
                        > > hellenistic
                        > >> > wars;
                        > >> > one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so
                        on...
                        > >> >
                        > >> > That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any
                        > > issue that
                        > >> > may
                        > >> > show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Ciao,
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Claudio
                        > >> >
                        > >> > > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice
                        > > pictures of
                        > >> > armies
                        > >> > > or Units are welcome.
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few
                        > > lists
                        > >> > leaving
                        > >> > > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists,
                        now
                        > > we are
                        > >> > > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you
                        will
                        > > find
                        > >> > > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical
                        > >> > background,
                        > >> > > pictures and more lists on some periods.
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > For example (and it is just and example!!)
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Book 1
                        > >> > > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman,
                        > > Carthaginian,
                        > >> > > Spanish etc armies)
                        > >> > > The Crusades
                        > >> > > The 100YW
                        > >> > > The Great Italian Wars
                        > >> > > Samurai
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Book 2
                        > >> > > Age of Chariot
                        > >> > > Alexander the Great
                        > >> > > The age of Charlemagne
                        > >> > > Feudal Europe
                        > >> > > War in The New World
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > ecc
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Lorenzo
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > >
                        >
                      • Lorenzo Sartori
                        Ok, maybe it is better also for me to explain better the idea. I agree that army lists should be published apart and this what I was thinking of. By the way
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 8, 2007
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                          Ok, maybe it is better also for me to explain better the idea.

                          I agree that army lists should be published apart and this what I was thinking of. By the way publishing a lot of detailed lists take a lot of time and would be no good if you have the rules and no list to play with. Or you have to wait 3 years for you favorite army!!
                          So the idea is to publish a good selection of standard lists (free within the rules!!) and take more time for a nice series of bookles to go in depth.

                          So for example in the rule book you find a Polybian Roman and a later Carthaginian as well as a later Crusader and Saladin, then on the army booklets you will find advanced lists for the Punic Wars (more Romans, more Carthaginians, Spanish, Numidians...) or the Crusades, along with historical background, nice pictures, special rules etc.
                          No much difference with FOW or WAB formula but more agile as each supplement will cover more periods with the following advantages

                          1) less time to wait for the period you are interested in
                          2) minor periods could be also included, while single books on them would be a commercial suicide.

                          More people could work at the lists/periods at the same time and periods published when ready.

                          Claudio also suggests the A5 format. This could be a good option, any opinion about?

                          cheers
                          Lorenzo






                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: thecarthaginian
                          To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:32 PM
                          Subject: [IMPETVS] publishing philosophy [Re: the Huns and updated list]


                          With this, I don´t agree, but I agree.

                          But I have no doubt anyway that Lorenzo will publish high quality
                          copies with not only content, but also something for the eyes.

                          Regards,

                          Marc

                          --- In IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com, claudio@... wrote:
                          >
                          > Apologies for not been able to explain myself clearly, as it's
                          obvious
                          > from the answers... :)
                          >
                          > 1) I also think rules and lists are better separate, which as I
                          understand
                          > is the opposite of what Lorenzo is planning.
                          >
                          > 2) When I said something like a DBM list book I meant in size, not
                          in the
                          > sense of a bunch of BW photocopies stapled together... WAB books
                          are large
                          > A4 things, with perfect bound, heavy coated paper, hard cover etc.
                          I was
                          > thinking at something half-way, a full color booklet, the size of a
                          DBM
                          > list book also in term of pages, with pictures, diagarams, list
                          > clarifications, examples, etc. think of a comic book for
                          instance... that
                          > should be considerably cheaper to publish.
                          >
                          > 3) I mentioned the problems with the DBM army list books thinking
                          mainly
                          > at the AP factors built in. That makes impossible to change an
                          element AP
                          > values to rebalance the game when a rules update is released, and
                          AFAIK
                          > everyone has complained about that since 1.0 was out. What I meant
                          with
                          > the comparison was that the list IMHO should also be visually
                          appealing
                          > and complete with support and references like the wab books (without
                          > necessarily be the same size and cost).
                          >
                          > Now all this is just my humble opinion, so feel free to disagree as
                          much
                          > as you like obviously, but please disagree with what I actually
                          mean, and
                          > forgive me for not explain it better in the first place... :)
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          >
                          > Claudio
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > I strongly agree with Lorenzo here. I think the opposite is true
                          and
                          > > people are much more pleased with the DBM approach, where the
                          lists
                          > > stay true for a while though the rules may change. It´s more
                          player-
                          > > friendly, either.
                          > >
                          > > By the way: Happy New Year to all I haven´t said it yet.
                          > >
                          > > Marc
                          > >
                          > > --- In IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com, "Lorenzo Sartori" <losart@> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> I think that DBM style booklets belong to the "last Century". So
                          > > easy to photocopy that its far better to give the content free via
                          > > web.
                          > >> The original idea was to use the magazine for "supplements" but I
                          > > don't want to annoy D&P readers that don't play Impetus. Still the
                          > > magazine will host scenarios or articles about, but in less
                          invasive
                          > > way. I think that articles like the one on Imperial Roman Armies
                          for
                          > > Basic Impetus (D&P 27 - Early & Middle Imperial- and in the
                          > > forthcoming issue 28 - late Imperial) are worth also for not
                          Impetus
                          > > gamers.
                          > >> On contrary some special booklets, well illustrated and with
                          colour
                          > > pages can be like a sort of magazine special issues / support for
                          the
                          > > Impetus gamer. 1 or 2 per year to keep the gamer updated, with new
                          > > armies, historical background and explanation on tactics like you
                          > > suggest.
                          > >> Running a magazine I have learnt that balance in contents is the
                          > > key.
                          > >>
                          > >> ciao
                          > >> Lorenzo
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> ----- Original Message -----
                          > >> From: claudio@
                          > >> To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                          > >> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:14 PM
                          > >> Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> Fair enough...
                          > >> I wasn't suggesting a publication like GW, that is very
                          expensive
                          > > to make
                          > >> for sure, but something like a DBM list book, but wholly
                          > > dediacted to a
                          > >> small subperiod so you have more space to treat the argument
                          in a
                          > > more
                          > >> extended form, maybe with some illustrations and an
                          introduction
                          > > to the
                          > >> period and armies... illustrations are really cheap these
                          days, I
                          > > should
                          > >> know, I'm an illustrator! :) But anyway you can have 8th and
                          9th C
                          > >> excellent works reproduction righst for nearly zero... there
                          are
                          > > also many
                          > >> re-enactment groups and archeology fans on the net that will
                          > > happily
                          > >> provide you with text and pictures for free...
                          > >>
                          > >> Another advantage of doing a booklet per period, even a DBM
                          style
                          > > one, is
                          > >> that you can add specific rules and clarifications that apply,
                          so
                          > > for
                          > >> instance the book on biblical armies can have a few extra pages
                          > > on how
                          > >> chariots work, that on the hellenic period some phalanx
                          > > explanation etc.
                          > >> You could even tweak some value on a per-period base, so that
                          > > egyptian
                          > >> archers would be less powerful in their period and mongol ones
                          > > better in
                          > >> theirs, but this could create issues for an open toutnament I
                          > > guess...
                          > >>
                          > >> Anyway, just a bunch of suggestion, is your call obviously!
                          > >>
                          > >> All the best,
                          > >>
                          > >> Claudio
                          > >>
                          > >> > Ciao Claudio,
                          > >> > the choice to publish a consistent number of lists is to
                          permit
                          > > most
                          > >> > gamers to game at once.
                          > >> > Otherwise if the rules has success within few week I will be
                          > > asked to
                          > >> > release this or that army (and this is not my main business).
                          > >> > The booklets will take TIME and MONEY and apart Warhammer /
                          GW
                          > > or FOW
                          > >> > that have money to invest and a lot of people to work at,
                          > > publishing rules
                          > >> > is not a great business.
                          > >> > (well actually for GW bad sales see
                          > >> > http://investor.games-workshop.com/investor_relations/
                          > > financial_results/Results2006/full_year/businessreview.htm
                          > >> > )
                          > >> >
                          > >> > So single periods books require a long work and more time. If
                          > > you are
                          > >> > waiting for the Crusades or the Great Italian Wars and you
                          have
                          > > to wait
                          > >> > for 4 years as they will be covered on th 3rd or 4th booklet
                          > > you get
                          > >> > annoyed...
                          > >> >
                          > >> > As for everyone happy with WAB approach I'm not so sure as in
                          > > Italy nobody
                          > >> > play at it while DBM, DBA and now Basic Impetus are much more
                          > > popular
                          > >> > sets.
                          > >> > This not to say the WAB books are crap or a bad idea. They
                          are
                          > > excellent
                          > >> > and inspirational volumes worth just for the pictures. But
                          not
                          > > necessary a
                          > >> > good business everywhere, above all if you have not tens of
                          > > thousand euros
                          > >> > to risk.
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Lorenzo
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > ----- Original Message -----
                          > >> > From: claudio@
                          > >> > To: IMPETVS@yahoogroups.com
                          > >> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:44 AM
                          > >> > Subject: Re: [IMPETVS] Re: the Huns and updated list
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Ciao Lorenzo,
                          > >> >
                          > >> > not to pretend to tell you what to do, but wouldn't be better
                          > > go for
                          > >> > separate rules and lists?
                          > >> > I say that because I still see endless problem with the 4 DBM
                          > > books,
                          > >> > while
                          > >> > everyone seems happy with the WAB approach, not to mention
                          the
                          > > business
                          > >> > model...
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Personally I'd like to see a few basic lists in the rules, to
                          > > allow
                          > >> > people
                          > >> > to buy the booklet and play immediately, those would be the
                          > > standard
                          > >> > lists
                          > >> > you mention I'd guess.
                          > >> >
                          > >> > But then I'd make a single book per period if not per
                          campaign,
                          > > so one
                          > >> > book one Alex and successors, one on the punic and maybe
                          > > hellenistic
                          > >> > wars;
                          > >> > one book on the crusades, one book one the 100YW, and so
                          on...
                          > >> >
                          > >> > That also leave you a chance to fix in the period book any
                          > > issue that
                          > >> > may
                          > >> > show up with the rules... just an opinion anyway!
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Ciao,
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Claudio
                          > >> >
                          > >> > > Making the best to publish it before summer. And nice
                          > > pictures of
                          > >> > armies
                          > >> > > or Units are welcome.
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > Contrary to the original idea that was to include very few
                          > > lists
                          > >> > leaving
                          > >> > > to the magazine (Dadi&Piombo) and the web further lists,
                          now
                          > > we are
                          > >> > > working to include 40 to 60 lists in the rule book.
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > They will be standard lists, for example in the book you
                          will
                          > > find
                          > >> > > Polybian Romans and Carthaginian.
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > Then we plan to publish a serie of booklets with historical
                          > >> > background,
                          > >> > > pictures and more lists on some periods.
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > Each book could include 5 to 7 different periods
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > For example (and it is just and example!!)
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > Book 1
                          > >> > > The Punic Wars (where you find several variant of Roman,
                          > > Carthaginian,
                          > >> > > Spanish etc armies)
                          > >> > > The Crusades
                          > >> > > The 100YW
                          > >> > > The Great Italian Wars
                          > >> > > Samurai
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > Book 2
                          > >> > > Age of Chariot
                          > >> > > Alexander the Great
                          > >> > > The age of Charlemagne
                          > >> > > Feudal Europe
                          > >> > > War in The New World
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > ecc
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > Lorenzo
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > >
                          >





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