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Costume College

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  • Dressmup@aol.com
    Costume College was great fun, but it seemed a bit light this year. Could be because a few of our regular teachers were on other missions -- Mela Hoyt Hayden
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 26, 2002
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      Costume College was great fun, but it seemed a bit light this year. Could be
      because a few of our regular teachers were on other missions -- Mela Hoyt
      Hayden is buying a new home, Judith N. (can't possibly remember how to spell
      her last name, I'd embarrass myself if I tried) who does those fantastic
      masks, is off doing masks for Cirque de Soliel. Not to mention those who had
      to take other commitments, or were still reluctant to travel.

      Which was almost me, I am usually willing to travel, but this was my first
      excursion since 9/11. As usual, I carry my sewing machine on board the
      aircraft as my main carryon. Which raised a few eyebrows, not that I cared.
      But I almost had my machine needles confiscated, but after checking with
      their superiors they relented. Oddly enough, I had my beaded belt project
      along with me to while away the time, and the 3"+ beading needles caused no
      reaction at all.

      The weekend in itself is always pleasant, and I drifted from topic to topic,
      peeked in on the Limited Attendance workshops (Metal-thread embroidery,
      Dicken's era Ladies' bonnet, Ruffs, etc.). The Gala was, as always, filled
      to overflowing with everyone and their finest apparel (and Karen looked
      FABULOUS in her new bodice).

      I skipped shopping in downtown LA, but as I plan to bring my daughter next
      year, I'll go then. I did however, not escape unscathed from the Dealer's
      room -- picked up Jean Hunnisett's Capes and Mantles book, and some teeny
      tiny gold and silver sequins......

      JoAnne
    • Janice Dallas
      Carl, Ron and I discovered Costume College about 6 years ago and have made it a must-do trip ever since. I ve had such wonderful help with accommodations for
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 7, 2002
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        Carl,
        Ron and I discovered Costume College about 6 years ago and have made it
        a must-do trip ever since. I've had such wonderful help with
        accommodations for my handicapped scooter, my special dietary needs for
        the Gala dinner,etc. Attendees and Staff are usually good about me in
        my scooter: they notice me, hold elevators, allow parking & manoevering
        space, don't ignore me (as if being HP, I don't exist! Have run into
        that at other conventions). Even the woman who turned suddenly and put
        her foot under my scooter, where I hurt it as my back wheels ran over
        it, later said that it was just an accident and didn't blame me or hold
        a grudge. Ron and I and a couple from the Virgin Islands are pretty
        much the regular Easterners there, but there are others from the Midwest
        and Mountain State who come. Mostly, it's West Coasters, and the rest
        of us are seen as Honorary West Coasters, I guess.

        Ron has set some precedents there. He's the first male allowed to take
        part in a Corset Workshop. We got him in as the sewer while I was the
        "Model", so to speak. My hands can be a problem, so we've been allowed
        into many workshops as a "2 for 1" deal. The rest of the women were
        hesitant at first, but very acceptable of him now, and have even let him
        help them out with laceing/fitting. He sees through a costumer's eyes,
        not a lecher's, if you understand what I mean.

        I love the people. I love the workshops (especially all the corset
        ones). The Exhibits are fantastic. There's an incredible Dealer's
        Room. We could go on for pages. Only problem is that there is a total
        membership cut-off, as the College doesn't want to end up too big for
        the volunteers to handle (a very good idea, I think). They usually sell
        out on memberships well before time, and enough of us reserve rooms that
        the hotel is happy. It's well worth making the effort to go at least
        once. Wish there was a similar event on the East Coast.
        --
        Janice Dallas
        Boston,MA area, USA
        Janice@...
        "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."
      • Alix Jordan
        ... The same thing happened at Senaca College, when I was taking my library tech course. As one of my options, I was helping out with a play. To begin with
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 8, 2002
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          Dear Janice:


          >help them out with laceing/fitting. He sees through a costumer's eyes,
          >not a lecher's, if you understand what I mean.

          The same thing happened at Senaca College, when I was taking my library
          tech course. As one of my options, I was helping out with a play. To begin
          with there were problems with only one dressing room, very small attached
          bathrooms, and a mixed cast. By opening night people were too busy getting
          changed to bother about who was standing next to them. There was a curtain,
          actually a sheet, for those who had to do a full strip, but it really didn't
          offer much by way of privacy. We had eleven actors and thirty some odd
          parts; lots of costume changes, but by then we were actors; not males and
          females.

          >
          Only problem is that there is a total
          >membership cut-off, as the College doesn't want to end up too big for
          >the volunteers to handle (a very good idea, I think).

          Similar things happen at doll conferences. You buy your membership,
          then you send in your requests for workshops, along with a cheque, or at
          least a deposit, to cover the workshop cost. Material fees are payable at
          the workshop. However, the point is that you have to registar for the
          conference very early, to have a chance of getting into the workshop(s) of
          your choice, as each instructor will only accept a certain number of pupils.

          Something similar on the east coast might be an idea, however when?
          CostumeCon in April or May (sometimes Feb.); Costume College in July;
          Westercon, Archon, and of course Worldcon. And that's only some of the
          events to which costumers flock. So the idea would be to decide when, then
          check out the possibilities; no sense checking out hotels, etc. only to
          discover that everyone is heading somewhere else that month.

          Peace
          Alixandra
          eddana@...

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        • Byron Connell
          The east coast sf cons with major masquerades are Arisia (January), Lunacon (March), Balticon (April or May), and Philcon (November or December). Of course,
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 8, 2002
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            The east coast sf cons with major masquerades are Arisia (January), Lunacon (March), Balticon (April or May), and Philcon (November or December). Of course, these are of interest only to North American costumers who (1) are sf fans and (2) enjoy competition costuming.

            Byron


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Alix Jordan
            To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Re: Costume College

            Something similar on the east coast might be an idea, however when?
            CostumeCon in April or May (sometimes Feb.); Costume College in July;
            Westercon, Archon, and of course Worldcon. And that's only some of the
            events to which costumers flock. So the idea would be to decide when, then
            check out the possibilities; no sense checking out hotels, etc. only to
            discover that everyone is heading somewhere else that month.

            Peace
            Alixandra
            eddana@...

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          • Alix Jordan
            ... And that s just the tip of the iceberg. That s what I mean by deciding when, then figure out where and how. Gee, let s hold it on the labour day
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 9, 2002
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              Dear Byron:

              >The east coast sf cons with major masquerades are Arisia (January), Lunacon
              >(March), Balticon (April or May), and Philcon (November or December). Of
              >course, these are of interest only to North American costumers who (1) are
              >sf fans and (2) enjoy competition costuming.

              And that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's what I mean by deciding
              when, then figure out where and how. Gee, let's hold it on the labour day
              weekend...what do you mean everyone will be at Worldcon? Also, check dates
              when considering a venue. I once knew someone who kept insisting that
              Ottawa should have a worldcon. At that point at least Ottawa did not have a
              hotel large enough. When this was pointed out she would get very upset and
              say that it could be held at Carlton University; other summer cons were held
              there. Yeah, but not on the weekend when the students were moving back into
              the dorms. Also, a one shot Toronto convention did very poorly because they
              were holding it the weekend before Worldcon, which was in Brighton that
              year. Most of Toronto fandom were on planes to England.

              Peace
              Alixandra
              eddana@...

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            • Janice Dallas
              I forwarded the lady s message to the Dean and Asst. Dean of Costume College. She ll need to be joined up and send in her preferences by May 21. The website
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 30, 2004
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                I forwarded the lady's message to the Dean and Asst. Dean of Costume
                College. She'll need to be joined up and send in her preferences by May 21.
                The website for info is www.costumecollege.org
                --
                Janice Dallas
                Boston,MA area, USA
                Janice@...
                "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."
              • Dressmup@aol.com
                ... Thanks -- she seemed ready to act immediately, so should have no problem. Word to the wise -- to join the fun, get right in there! JoAnne
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 30, 2004
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                  In a message dated 04-04-30 16:24:04 EDT, you write:

                  >
                  >I forwarded the lady's message to the Dean and Asst. Dean of Costume
                  >College. She'll need to be joined up and send in her preferences by May 21.
                  >The website for info is www.costumecollege.org
                  >--
                  >Janice Dallas
                  >Boston,MA area, USA
                  >Janice@...
                  >"Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  Thanks -- she seemed ready to act immediately, so should have no problem.

                  Word to the wise -- to join the fun, get right in there!

                  JoAnne
                • Carole Parker
                  Hello All: Well, we got back home from the road trip in reasonable order. We were glad we were not driving down to Los Angeles from our area - highway 5
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 2, 2004
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                    Hello All:

                    Well, we got back home from the road trip in reasonable order. We were
                    glad we were not driving down to Los Angeles from our area - highway 5
                    southbound a few miles from highway 152 (It connects the south bay to
                    highway 5.) had a backup going for several miles because of road work.

                    We had a good time. Dave Doering and Charles Galway were representing
                    CC23. For those that have not seen or met Charles, he's a looker. I've
                    got photographs of him, and when the film gets developed, I'll let the
                    list know the URL.

                    I did not attend the Saturday Gala because I visited with local family
                    instead.

                    The classes were good. I messed up and didn't send in my money by the
                    deadline, so I only got one of the limited classes that I originally
                    signed up for. However, people seemed to think that all of the classes
                    were rather good.

                    Silicon Web's Dana MacDermott taught a class on Sunday afternoon about
                    designing and presenting an alien. It was interesting for me to see
                    Dana be nervous about teaching the class. I got to attend the first
                    half of the class before having to run off to my one limited class
                    (Which was very good - I've got yet *more* ideas!), and I wished that I
                    could have seen the whole class. If Dana presents the class again, I
                    really want to be there for the whole session. She's very organized and
                    clear about how she delivers information.

                    A good percentage of really nice hall costumes were there. I didn't
                    bring any this time because my hall costumes didn't seem appropriate to
                    the college.

                    Lots of friendly people and lots of new people, too. I believe that
                    several new costumers are going to be at CC23. :-)

                    I spent too much money in the marketplace (dealers room). This year's
                    big expense was buttons. I saw buttons that I have not seen anywhere
                    else - hand carved boxwood buttons with an Asian dragon on each one.
                    Really nice detail. Now, to figure out what to do with them to
                    advantage.

                    Was the College worth it? Yes, it was. Am I going to attend every
                    single year from now on? Probably not. I'll have to see. Am I going to
                    have another ten-year gap? Nope. I'll be going back before then. That
                    is, if the universe lets me.

                    Carl Mami was quoted by Janet Wilson-Anderson at the orientation,
                    "Costume College is where you learn to do the neat things. Costume Con
                    is where you get to show it off." That seems like a good summary to me.

                    Until later--

                    Carole
                  • Charles Galway
                    Yes, and we made it back to Utah as well (we drove). Thanks to Darla and everyone for your support of the CC-23 (Utah) up-coming event. It was good to meet
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 2, 2004
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                      Yes, and we made it back to Utah as well (we drove). Thanks to Darla and everyone for your support of the CC-23 (Utah) up-coming event. It was good to meet some of you, and good to see so many great costumes on everyone.

                      I thought the few bits of programming I attended were well prepared. I also liked the fine exhibit, and the good variety in the vendor's room.

                      I had my green Alien aqua-man costume, but never got around to wearing it. (too hard to see and talk -- with the full face-hood). But I guess Carole preferred my other costume, anyway.

                      We picked up a number of memberships, plus quite a bit of interest. We'll keep this list informed of future information up-dates.

                      Remember the Future Fashion Folio (costume design drawings) are due (in our hands) by Oct. 1. Also, we can still handle programming suggestions (submitted to Dana MacDermott)

                      We look forward to seeing many of you this coming spring.

                      Charles (CC-23)
                      cc23.org



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Carole Parker
                      To: icg-d@yahoogroups.com ; siliconweb@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:13 PM
                      Subject: [ICG-D] Costume College


                      Hello All:

                      Well, we got back home from the road trip in reasonable order. We were
                      glad we were not driving down to Los Angeles from our area - highway 5
                      southbound a few miles from highway 152 (It connects the south bay to
                      highway 5.) had a backup going for several miles because of road work.

                      We had a good time. Dave Doering and Charles Galway were representing
                      CC23. For those that have not seen or met Charles, he's a looker. I've
                      got photographs of him, and when the film gets developed, I'll let the
                      list know the URL.

                      I did not attend the Saturday Gala because I visited with local family
                      instead.

                      The classes were good. I messed up and didn't send in my money by the
                      deadline, so I only got one of the limited classes that I originally
                      signed up for. However, people seemed to think that all of the classes
                      were rather good.

                      Silicon Web's Dana MacDermott taught a class on Sunday afternoon about
                      designing and presenting an alien. It was interesting for me to see
                      Dana be nervous about teaching the class. I got to attend the first
                      half of the class before having to run off to my one limited class
                      (Which was very good - I've got yet *more* ideas!), and I wished that I
                      could have seen the whole class. If Dana presents the class again, I
                      really want to be there for the whole session. She's very organized and
                      clear about how she delivers information.

                      A good percentage of really nice hall costumes were there. I didn't
                      bring any this time because my hall costumes didn't seem appropriate to
                      the college.

                      Lots of friendly people and lots of new people, too. I believe that
                      several new costumers are going to be at CC23. :-)

                      I spent too much money in the marketplace (dealers room). This year's
                      big expense was buttons. I saw buttons that I have not seen anywhere
                      else - hand carved boxwood buttons with an Asian dragon on each one.
                      Really nice detail. Now, to figure out what to do with them to
                      advantage.

                      Was the College worth it? Yes, it was. Am I going to attend every
                      single year from now on? Probably not. I'll have to see. Am I going to
                      have another ten-year gap? Nope. I'll be going back before then. That
                      is, if the universe lets me.

                      Carl Mami was quoted by Janet Wilson-Anderson at the orientation,
                      "Costume College is where you learn to do the neat things. Costume Con
                      is where you get to show it off." That seems like a good summary to me.

                      Until later--

                      Carole


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                    • Carole Parker
                      ... It was a good costume. :-) I enjoyed looking. ;-) Until later-- Carole
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 4, 2004
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                        On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 10:54 PM, Charles Galway wrote:

                        > I had my green Alien aqua-man costume, but never got around to wearing
                        > it. (too hard to see and talk -- with the full face-hood). But I
                        > guess Carole preferred my other costume, anyway.

                        It was a good costume. :-) I enjoyed looking. ;-)

                        Until later--

                        Carole
                      • Janice Dallas
                        Ron and I are going. We ll probably spend a week up in Ventura before it. -- Janice Dallas Boston,MA area, USA Janice@dallas-family.com Just so, the girl has
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 19 1:52 PM
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                          Ron and I are going. We'll probably spend a week up in Ventura before it.
                          --
                          Janice Dallas
                          Boston,MA area, USA
                          Janice@...
                          "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."
                        • Janice Dallas
                          CGW is based in the LA area so I don t see them moving to another area. The small Airtel hotel is very friendly and used to us, but is limited in space. On a
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 2, 2008
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                            CGW is based in the LA area so I don't see them moving to another area.
                            The small Airtel hotel is very friendly and used to us, but is limited
                            in space. On a questionnaire that went out to members, several
                            questions dealt with change of venue and allowing more registrations.
                            Apparently, no one wanted to change anything. I think it would suffer
                            from becoming bigger, and changing to a, possibly, less friendly site.
                            I know ARISIA in the East has had hotel problems occasionally, and to
                            have a site that is so friendly that the waiters want to perform a
                            "Grand March" with the serving trays, at the annual dinner dance, is
                            very rare.

                            It would be wonderful to have the same Costume College in the East, but
                            it requires a very large group of dedicated workers/teachers. The
                            College Dean apprentices for one year, then immediately following the
                            College, starts her work on the next one. It's not for the faint of
                            heart, and can burn out a group. The College is loaded with so many
                            different types of programs and tours, an Edwardian Tea, vintage
                            swimsuit gathering, and the Time Traveller's Gala (a major job just by
                            itself) that is very demanding to put on.

                            I just worry about spouses, Mothers and children, having to apply
                            separately.
                            --
                            Janice Dallas
                            Boston,MA area, USA
                            Janice@...
                            "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."
                          • Barb Schofield
                            Another concern might come from costumers who normally share hotel room expenses having to apply separately. Can they still afford to attend if their roommate
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 3, 2008
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                              Another concern might come from costumers who normally share hotel room expenses having to apply separately. Can they still afford to attend if their roommate doesn't get a membership?

                              What is the total number of memberships available to attendees?

                              Barb


                              Janice Dallas <Janice@...> wrote:
                              CGW is based in the LA area so I don't see them moving to another area.
                              The small Airtel hotel is very friendly and used to us, but is limited
                              in space. On a questionnaire that went out to members, several
                              questions dealt with change of venue and allowing more registrations.
                              Apparently, no one wanted to change anything. I think it would suffer
                              from becoming bigger, and changing to a, possibly, less friendly site.
                              I know ARISIA in the East has had hotel problems occasionally, and to
                              have a site that is so friendly that the waiters want to perform a
                              "Grand March" with the serving trays, at the annual dinner dance, is
                              very rare.

                              It would be wonderful to have the same Costume College in the East, but
                              it requires a very large group of dedicated workers/teachers. The
                              College Dean apprentices for one year, then immediately following the
                              College, starts her work on the next one. It's not for the faint of
                              heart, and can burn out a group. The College is loaded with so many
                              different types of programs and tours, an Edwardian Tea, vintage
                              swimsuit gathering, and the Time Traveller's Gala (a major job just by
                              itself) that is very demanding to put on.

                              I just worry about spouses, Mothers and children, having to apply
                              separately.
                              --
                              Janice Dallas
                              Boston,MA area, USA
                              Janice@...
                              "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."





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                            • Janice Dallas
                              I remember that one year we had 500 registered, but it was a mini-Costume Con style college that year. It burned people out. I believe registration is now
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                I remember that one year we had 500 registered, but it was a
                                mini-Costume Con style college that year. It burned people out. I
                                believe registration is now set at three hundred something, but I'm not
                                on the grapevine so don't know for sure. However, 76 of those attending
                                in 2006 were teachers! They have to pay, too, just like the rest.

                                I don't think raising the price would really work. Once you're hooked
                                on Costume College, nothing stops you from trying to attend. There's
                                nothing like it for costumers, and I'm including Costume-Con in that
                                statement.
                                --
                                Janice Dallas
                                Boston,MA area, USA
                                Janice@...
                                "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."
                              • randwhit@aol.com
                                In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:51:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time, Janice@dallas-family.com writes: but I m not on the grapevine so don t know for sure.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                  In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:51:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
                                  Janice@... writes:

                                  but I'm not
                                  on the grapevine so don't know for sure.


                                  _____________________

                                  Gawds how my mind works sometimes.

                                  Things are slow at work, so I've spent the last couple of days studying up
                                  on computer networking.

                                  After Janice's post, I want to re-cable the entire office for Pinot Noir,
                                  with a Chardonay server for backup and fish courses.

                                  Randall

                                  Thank Glitziana It's Friday



                                  **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                  http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Dany
                                  ... on Costume College, nothing stops you from trying to attend. I m sure that this addiction could stand a 5-10 dollar bump with the current demand. But
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                    >>I don't think raising the price would really work. Once you're hooked
                                    on Costume College, nothing stops you from trying to attend.>>



                                    I'm sure that this 'addiction' could stand a 5-10 dollar bump with the
                                    current demand. But that's just a random peanut gallery comment. :-)



                                    Simply put, demand is higher than allowed attendance, and always will be
                                    unless the attendance cap goes up. Since this is not an option because a
                                    raise in attendance will cause a reduction in intimacy, then there needs to
                                    be something else.



                                    What that something else is? Who knows. I'm out of ideas, myself.and
                                    admittedly, my interest in going has actually waned with the new rules.
                                    There's too much chances that things will fall through. Yes, there is a
                                    second hand market of people who might cancel, but with this demand, I sense
                                    that it will be even harder in that field to predict my chances there short
                                    of stalking any list that might have an announcement of a cancel and HOPE
                                    that I'm the one that gets to that person first. And with things like
                                    airfare to contend with (let alone that possibility that all of the courses
                                    I'd be interested in taking being unavailable by the time I got my
                                    membership), it's just not a good gamble for me.



                                    Or maybe that just speaks for my priorities, is all. ;)



                                    Dany

                                    -merely speaking for herself :-)



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • randwhit@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:10:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time, randwhit@aol.com writes: After Janice s post, I want to re-cable the entire office for Pinot
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                      In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:10:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
                                      randwhit@... writes:

                                      After Janice's post, I want to re-cable the entire office for Pinot Noir,
                                      with a Chardonay server for backup and fish courses.


                                      _________________

                                      But I'm not supposed to drink during business hours, so I'll have to stick
                                      to ten base tea.

                                      Randall



                                      **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                      http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Janice Dallas
                                      What drew me to Costume College in the first place was the day long workshops where I ve made several styles of corsets. Since then I ve made a bustle
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 7, 2008
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                                        What drew me to Costume College in the first place was the day long
                                        workshops where I've made several styles of corsets. Since then I've
                                        made a bustle petticoat, a French Hood, a Regency slip, panniers, a
                                        saran wrap hat, Elizabethan ruffs, tried Gold bullion embroidery and
                                        blackwork, and played with Make-up styles of the 20's through the 40's.

                                        My husband worked with me on the corsets, but I think his favorite class
                                        was "Costuming for the new Burlesque"! He didn't go to the pastie
                                        making workshop but was interested.

                                        I tend to go to Historical type classes, while Ron is drawn to Mask
                                        making (leather and plaster bandage bases), Vacuum-forming vinyl,
                                        Electrifying costumes, and that sort of thing. He did make a pretty
                                        good parasol in one class for me, though. There are starting to be
                                        anime courses, and there's always belly dance classes and workshops on
                                        making Bras and belts for their costumes.
                                        --
                                        Janice Dallas
                                        Boston,MA area, USA
                                        Janice@...
                                        "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."
                                      • Julie Goldsworth
                                        Hi, I m new here and I hope this question is appropriate. I attended the Costume College in Van Nuys this past weekend where there were a hundred beautiful
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 5, 2008
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                                          Hi, I'm new here and I hope this question is appropriate.
                                          I attended the Costume College in Van Nuys this past weekend where
                                          there were a hundred beautiful dresses and a even outfits for men.
                                          There was a room staged for photographing all these creations and the
                                          professional photographer said all these portraits would be available
                                          on Picasa.

                                          However, I can't figure out where.

                                          Does anyone know how to get to these photos?

                                          Thank you so much!

                                          Julie
                                        • Aurora Celeste
                                          I m going next year for the first time, anyone else going? I m looking for roommates, or I ll use the con s search if I don t find any (which is great, more
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Oct 16, 2012
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                                            I'm going next year for the first time, anyone else going? I'm looking for
                                            roommates, or I'll use the con's search if I don't find any (which is
                                            great, more cons should do that!!).


                                            ~Aurora


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