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Re: [siliconweb] Con Photography, a Modest Proposal

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  • Richard Man
    Yes, I understand everyone works for free. My proposal isn t to address everyone. In any case, I do fully expect this proposal would be like throwing rocks in
    Message 1 of 136 , May 29, 2013
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      Yes, I understand everyone works for free. My proposal isn't to address
      everyone.

      In any case, I do fully expect this proposal would be like throwing rocks
      in the water.


      On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Snap <snap@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > **
      > In the conventions I've been to, there is usually a photographer like
      > yourself who offers their professional services. Most of the time, these
      > are hobbiests who sometimes have competition with others in order to do
      > what they love to do. Heck, in starting a 'furry' convention here in
      > Minneapolis there are already 3 people wishing to offer their services.
      > Some professional photographers offer prints of their work and that's how
      > they recoup some of their travel costs.
      >
      > This February, with hotels, gas and food expenses, a friend paid 8K+ to
      > bring all of his professional AV gear to a convention in Dallas. This was
      > a hobby for him, a fun way to give back to the community and be able to
      > play with all of his electronic toys. I don't think anyone ever 'expects'
      > a photographer to come with all of their gear so other's can enjoy the
      > fruits of their labor. It has to be a labor of love, right?
      >
      > -Snap
      > ByCats4Cat.com
      >
      > ------------------------------
      > *From:* siliconweb@yahoogroups.com [mailto:siliconweb@yahoogroups.com] *On
      > Behalf Of *Richard Man
      > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:32 PM
      > *To:* siliconweb@yahoogroups.com; ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
      > *Subject:* [siliconweb] Con Photography, a Modest Proposal
      >
      >
      >
      > Con Photography - a Modest Proposal.
      >
      > After last Worldcon, I made it clear that I will no longer offer my
      > photography service pro bono - which is the usual fee paid to photogs
      > because, well, most volunteers work for free at con.
      >
      > I won't rehash the rationales, but the only public response is as expected
      > - con do not have money. The only "con'ish" photography I have done since
      > then is for the Nebula Awards, and being an organization, they were able to
      > compensate me.
      >
      > I do not expect any con would think too seriously about putting another
      > budget item on their list, as we do know about con is sometimes a money
      > losing business.
      >
      > Here's a proposal: a con that wishes to get the service of a professional
      > photographer, such as Charles Mohapel<https://www.facebook.com/charles.mohapel?directed_target_id=0>,
      > Jade Falcon <https://www.facebook.com/JadeFalcon?directed_target_id=0>,
      > myself, or many of the other talented photographer, should add a "donation
      > to (masquerade/costume) photography" check box in their membership sales
      > section. Even just a $1 checkbox. Make it clear that this is optional. All
      > the money goes to photographer. For modest small con like Costume Con, make
      > it $3.
      >
      > The Treasurer has to do all sort of bookkeeping and I doubt this adds
      > significantly to the work. I do not know how successful this would be, but
      > why not give it a try? Do it on Day One, as soon as the membership page
      > goes live.
      >
      > What do you say, SMOFs?
      >
      > --
      > // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
      > // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
      > // richard's personal photo blog: <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
      > [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all
      > previous replies in your msgs. ]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
      // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
      // richard's personal photo blog: <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
      [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all previous
      replies in your msgs. ]


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • karisu_sama
      As both a costumer and the assistant to an award-winning photographer who typically shoots (pun intended) for gallery and portrait quality, I have always had
      Message 136 of 136 , May 31, 2013
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        As both a costumer and the assistant to an award-winning photographer who
        typically shoots (pun intended) for gallery and portrait quality, I have always
        had the highest respect and admiration for serious skilled practitioners of both
        arts. If an artist is also involved in commercial work, I also do not believe it
        reduces the artist in any way (e.g.: a costumer who may do custom commissions.)

        AND, I assumed (I forgot that one should never assume), I was part of a community of reasonable people who might disagree on various principles, but at least would try to treat each other with due courtesy, respect and empathy.

        I would never have expected members of what I thought was "my community" to
        demote a skilled photographer, who wanted to volunteer his skills to what HE
        thought was his community, to "filthy huckster" level. It's not like you/we are
        trying to or hoping to make any actual profit from cons.

        Kudos to you, my husband, for (foolishly) believing it was your honorable obligated duty to meet your promise to provide photography, even when the situation developed such that you knew you'd be out a lot of money AND we were already so strapped that I could not afford to go to the con with you.

        Someone who knew our family's situation claims they did you a "huge favor" by taking the time to convincing some rather "ill-informed and provincially-minded" parties (I'm practicing restraint here; the term I originally thought of involved the word "bat----") just to do the reasonable, normal and proper things, but then this someone backstabs you as supposedly "gouging" due to said reasonable, normal & proper things?

        Perhaps you should NOT feel obligated to meet your promises anymore. Warm body volunteers in other positions that most anyone else can fill pull out at the last minute if they can't afford to attend, obviously costumers do too. So, maybe a quality photographer is a much tougher position to replace at the last minute?? TOO DAMNED BAD. Don't BOTHER to be so honorable to people who have no respect for you and what you do. You DON'T have any obligation to people like that.

        The amount of post-con culling and computer pre-processing time is taken *directly* out of your work hours that actually pay the family bills. Other volunteers, I would bet money that I don't have, aren't taking unpaid leave from their jobs to volunteer for a con. I shan't deign to answer any uninformed (I'd rather use a ruder term, but I'm practicing restraint) comments about "aw gee we're ALL out travel expenses so wats yer stinkin problem". There is nothing that is remotely polite that I can say to such people.

        I guess I'm learning a lot about previously-unrevealed double standards held by some members of the community, and about just who real friends are vs. who will gladly kick you when you're down. Problem is this thread is not turning out to be about simple disagreements. HOW people are saying things is revealing a lot about them, and it isn't pretty, but it's damned good to know where you stand.



        --- In ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, Richard Man <richard@...> wrote:
        >
        > I must admit that no one ever force me to do the photography. I volunteered.
        >
        > It's enlightening to see the true characters coming out.
        >
        >
        > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:04 PM, karisu_sama <karisu@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Mami <ecmami@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > I must agree with Dave. Also, unlike the dealers, you usually have your
        > > membership(s) free, and often a room to store your equipment - also free.
        > > > Who knows exactly how much you were given by CC30
        > >
        > > What is that sentence supposed to be insinuating?
        > >
        > > Richard was given:
        > >
        > > Said free membership: (AKA a badge which allowed him to walk around a
        > > space that he was working in without getting harassed by the con. As Ken
        > > said, it's unreasonable to ask someone who is generally unable to attend
        > > *any* convention function other than in a "working" role to pay for a
        > > membership.)
        > >
        > > A room for the photography to occur in (AKA con function space for this
        > > planned function) in which oh by the way he could leave his equipment in
        > > between sessions, because the door could be locked to prevent theft, as it
        > > would be in the best interest of the con for him not to have to do a full
        > > teardown / re-setup each time he leaves it and return. Repeat: This was CON
        > > FUNCTION SPACE. No one has ever given us a "free storage room".
        > >
        > > That's it.
        > > ...Were you expecting extra that is somehow "not being disclosed"?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
        > // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
        > // richard's personal photo blog: <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
        > [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all previous
        > replies in your msgs. ]
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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