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Re: [ICG-D] Certifying Masquerades

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  • Carolyn Kayta Barrows
    ... Whew. I like the idea of ICG fairness Guidelines better than some random person s idea that the ICG might think it s in a position to sanction/certify, or
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 1, 2005
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      > >> It seems like the question of whether or not to certify masquerades as
      > >> ICG sanctioned or some such has come up.
      > >
      > > Why do masquerades need ICG certification? I must have missed
      > > something.
      >
      >It came up from the Anime side. One of our new anime costumers asked
      >about getting a form of certification/sactioning for anime conventions
      >since WorldCon and CostumeCon are ICG recognized. It seems like one
      >possible way to attract more people to the ICG.

      Whew. I like the idea of ICG fairness Guidelines better than some random
      person's idea that the ICG might think it's in a position to
      sanction/certify, or withhold sanctioning/certification of, a
      Masquerade-like event (you and I know the ICG doesn't really do that).

      "But what about the ICG Code?"
      "Well, actually, they're more like guidelines..."

      CarolynKayta Barrows
      dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
      www.FunStuft.com

      //// \\\
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      (((( 7 )))
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    • Carolyn Kayta Barrows
      ... Whew. I like the idea of ICG fairness Guidelines better than I like some random person s idea that the ICG might think it s in a position to
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 1, 2005
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        > >> It seems like the question of whether or not to certify masquerades as
        > >> ICG sanctioned or some such has come up.
        > >
        > > Why do masquerades need ICG certification? I must have missed
        > > something.
        >
        >It came up from the Anime side. One of our new anime costumers asked
        >about getting a form of certification/sactioning for anime conventions
        >since WorldCon and CostumeCon are ICG recognized. It seems like one
        >possible way to attract more people to the ICG.

        Whew. I like the idea of ICG fairness Guidelines better than I like some
        random person's idea that the ICG might think it's in a position to
        sanction/certify, or withhold sanctioning/certification of, a
        Masquerade-like event.

        "But what about the ICG Code?"
        "Well, actually, they're more like guidelines..."

        CarolynKayta Barrows
        dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
        www.FunStuft.com

        //// \\\
        ////-@@\\\
        (((( 7 )))
        ((( <> ))))
        ) ((((((
        /----\ /---\))
      • Carole Parker
        ... People/organizations can claim whatever they want to claim. No trademark exists for WorldCon Equivalent, so that can t be stopped. It would have been
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 1, 2005
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          On Wednesday, August 31, 2005, at 04:53 PM, Dawn McKechnie wrote:

          > As well certain masquerades touting themselves as "Worldcon
          > Equivalent",
          > i.e. The Gathering Of the Fellowship, which happend in Toronto two
          > novembers
          > ago, yet involved Non of the Toronto members of the ICG. @_@

          People/organizations can claim whatever they want to claim. No
          trademark exists for "WorldCon Equivalent," so that can't be stopped.
          It would have been interesting to see what they considered that to be.
          Since the ICG does not run WorldCon masquerades, it doesn't matter
          whether or not any ICG members were involved.

          Some large regional conventions are large enough to be the same size as
          WorldCons, but as you've seen in the anime cons, doesn't always mean
          that they're run the same way.

          Until later--

          Carole
        • Cheryl Morgan
          ... Yep. I too have seen it all before, and from three different continents. Any time any fannish body tries to make something official other groups of fans
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 1, 2005
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            Marty said:

            >Or drive them away! Having been down this road at least twice
            >previously, I would be greatly opposed to the ICG becoming a
            >"sanctioning body."

            Yep. I too have seen it all before, and from three different
            continents. Any time any fannish body tries to make something
            "official" other groups of fans get angry about it and yell "conspiracy!".

            Besides, these things are not easy to define. The idea of an
            international convention being one that can move between countries is
            a good one, but ask many British fans and they'll tell you that
            Worldcon and CostumeCon are international in the same way that the
            baseball World Series is international - there are a few token
            Canadians. That may be stupid and xenophobic of them, but it is the
            way some of them think.

            Another possible definition might be a convention that has a large
            international membership. For example, a UK Eastercon is liable to
            get members from at least 9 countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark,
            Finland, Germany, Netherlands, Ireland, USA, UK). There are also
            really good costumers in Europe. But Eastercon masquerades these days
            are generally quite small and there may be only one or two really
            good entries. In terms of valuing the winning of an award, the
            competition you faced is an important issue.

            In short, there are no easy answers, and attempting to define things
            more tightly will generally only result in upsetting people who were
            being reasonable while not discouraging those behaving badly.

            But please don't let this stop you asking questions, folks - it is a
            necessary part of the learning process. Every fannish mailing list I
            have been on goes through this type of cycle. The less civilized ones
            have flame wars every few years in which the newbies insist that
            everything that has been done in the past is Wrong! You guys are
            handling this very well in comparison.

            Love 'n' hugs,

            Cheryl



            Cheryl Morgan
            Emerald City: Science Fiction & Fantasy Book Reviews
            cheryl@...
            http://www.emcit.com/
            UK: 07742 196 331
            US: (650) 722 1413
          • stephentang01
            I looked at the project timeline on the proposal site, and it looks like the guidelines were scheduled to be done on 03/07. Since there is no year listed, I
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 1, 2005
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              I looked at the project timeline on the proposal site, and it looks
              like the guidelines were scheduled to be done on 03/07. Since there
              is no year listed, I guess it would be 03/07/2005. Since it's
              September, I was wondering what the state of it is. The new fairness
              guidelines are more informative than the 1994 edition.

              --Stephen
            • Andrew T Trembley
              ... I think that the difference this time is that people (granted, in some cases people who don t understand) are asking for certification or recognition. It s
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 1, 2005
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                On Sep 1, 2005, at 2:53 AM, Cheryl Morgan wrote:

                > Marty said:
                >
                >> Or drive them away! Having been down this road at least twice
                >> previously, I would be greatly opposed to the ICG becoming a
                >> "sanctioning body."
                >
                > Yep. I too have seen it all before, and from three different
                > continents. Any time any fannish body tries to make something
                > "official" other groups of fans get angry about it and yell
                > "conspiracy!".

                I think that the difference this time is that people (granted, in some
                cases people who don't understand) are asking for certification or
                recognition. It's not a case of an organizing body going in and telling
                folks they have to do something.

                Let me be clear about one thing. I don't like the misuse of the ICG
                name or the misrepresentation of our positions. I'm going to go with
                the crowd, though, and say that we're in a really touchy spot when we
                try to do something about it.

                --
                andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
                http://www.irlm.org/ - mailto:webmaster@...
                "Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to"
                -- Donna Barr
              • Pierre & Sandy Pettinger
                ... I whole-heartedly agree. I d fight tooth and nail, despite my official neutrality as Parliamentarian, against any suggestion that we start sanctioning
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 1, 2005
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                  At 08:24 PM 8/31/2005, you wrote:

                  >Or drive them away! Having been down this road at least twice
                  >previously, I would be greatly opposed to the ICG becoming a
                  >"sanctioning body."

                  I whole-heartedly agree. I'd fight tooth and nail, despite my
                  official neutrality as Parliamentarian, against any suggestion that
                  we start sanctioning masquerades.

                  > See Andy Trembley's comments on this subject. Any
                  >Masquerade that wishes to adopt our way of doing things is welcome to do
                  >so and doesn't need our approval or permission. If an anime convention
                  >or comic con or some one else wishes to petition the ICG to have their
                  >masquerade "rated at the same level" as the WorldCon or CostumeCon that
                  >is a different matter, but since "Master" is an open class for anyone
                  >who wishes to compete I personally can't see the point. I repeat, the
                  >division system was established to encourage new people to compete in
                  >masquerades. It has no other useful function.
                  >
                  >Marty (who is one of those guilty of starting the whole damn thing!)

                  "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                  Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                  Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                  Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                  Achemdro'hm
                  "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                  -- C.Y. 4971

                  Andromeda
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