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Re: Seeking corset pattern

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  • rookwoods
    ... maker ... Karen, are either of these what you saw? McCall s 4107 or Butterick 4254 or Simplicity 9966? -Judy
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 8, 2005
      --- In ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@p...> wrote:
      > A seamstress at an event I went to had this in her "book of patterns"
      > (along with offerings from Simplicity, Butterick, and McCall's). No
      maker
      > or style number listed

      Karen, are either of these what you saw? McCall's 4107 or Butterick
      4254 or Simplicity 9966?

      -Judy
    • Ricky & Karen Dick
      Judy, I think the pattern I m seeking is by an independent company, not the Big Three. --Karen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 8, 2005
        Judy, I think the pattern I'm seeking is by an independent company, not the
        "Big Three."

        --Karen

        At 01:32 PM 7/8/2005 +0000, you wrote:
        >Karen, are either of these what you saw? McCall's 4107 or Butterick
        >4254 or Simplicity 9966?
        >
        > -Judy



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • osierhenry@cs.com
        Karen, I forwarded your query of to a bunch of Renn folks in the area who might know. Henry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 8, 2005
          Karen,
          I forwarded your query of to a bunch of Renn folks in the area who
          might know.
          Henry


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Genie
          Karen, this sounds like Butterick, B4254. It should be in their current selection under historical costume. Genie, Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 10, 2005
            Karen,
            this sounds like Butterick, B4254. It should be in their current selection
            under historical costume.

            Genie,
            Snow fallen on snow,
            and this evening, the full moon of November
            Basho


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ricky & Karen Dick" <castleb@...>
            To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:01 PM
            Subject: RE: [ICG-D] Seeking corset pattern


            > A seamstress at an event I went to had this in her "book of patterns"
            > (along with offerings from Simplicity, Butterick, and McCall's). No maker
            > or style number listed (although she did have these listed for other
            > patterns). The pattern art showed four line drawings of a strapless
            > Tudor-ish corset that had lacings down the sides or down the two sides of
            > the front "V". It also came in an underbust variation, and possibly a
            > "belt" variation.
            >
            > I'm curious if anyone here has seen the pattern and can clue me in on
            > manufacturer / pattern number. Looks like a good basic "Ren" thing, if I
            > could just track it down.
            >
            > --Karen
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Ricky & Karen Dick
            No, it isn t Butterick 4254. Whatever this pattern is, I am 99.9% certain it is NOT produced by the Big Three pattern companies. I m fairly sure it s by some
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 10, 2005
              No, it isn't Butterick 4254.

              Whatever this pattern is, I am 99.9% certain it is NOT produced by the "Big
              Three" pattern companies. I'm fairly sure it's by some "independent"
              company--I just need to figure out which one.

              Somebody else wrote me off-list and suggested the Laughing Moon corset
              pattern, and it is NOT that, either, as the look is Ren/Tudor (conical NOT
              hourglass silhouette), NOT Victorian.

              To summarize: the pattern I'm looking for is Tudor-esque in silhouette, has
              3 or 4 different distinct variations, and is produced by an independent
              pattern company. I say "Tudor-esque" because it laces in places where no
              respectable Tudor corset ever did.

              --Karen

              At 09:32 AM 7/10/2005 -0500, you wrote:
              >Karen,
              >this sounds like Butterick, B4254. It should be in their current selection
              >under historical costume.
              >
              >Genie,
              >Snow fallen on snow,
              > and this evening, the full moon of November
              >Basho
              >
              >
              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: "Ricky & Karen Dick" <castleb@...>
              >To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
              >Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:01 PM
              >Subject: RE: [ICG-D] Seeking corset pattern
              >
              >
              > > A seamstress at an event I went to had this in her "book of patterns"
              > > (along with offerings from Simplicity, Butterick, and McCall's). No maker
              > > or style number listed (although she did have these listed for other
              > > patterns). The pattern art showed four line drawings of a strapless
              > > Tudor-ish corset that had lacings down the sides or down the two sides of
              > > the front "V". It also came in an underbust variation, and possibly a
              > > "belt" variation.
              > >
              > > I'm curious if anyone here has seen the pattern and can clue me in on
              > > manufacturer / pattern number. Looks like a good basic "Ren" thing, if I
              > > could just track it down.
              > >
              > > --Karen
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              ><?---- LSpots keywords ?> <?---- HM ADS ?>
              >
              >----------
              >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > * Visit your group "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D>ICG-D" on
              > the web.
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              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >----------



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Genie
              Ignore my earlier post. Just finished reading the rest of the posts. Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ... From: Ricky &
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 10, 2005
                Ignore my earlier post. Just finished reading the rest of the posts.

                Snow fallen on snow,
                and this evening, the full moon of November
                Basho


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Ricky & Karen Dick" <castleb@...>
                To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:01 PM
                Subject: RE: [ICG-D] Seeking corset pattern


                > A seamstress at an event I went to had this in her "book of patterns"
                > (along with offerings from Simplicity, Butterick, and McCall's). No maker
                > or style number listed (although she did have these listed for other
                > patterns). The pattern art showed four line drawings of a strapless
                > Tudor-ish corset that had lacings down the sides or down the two sides of
                > the front "V". It also came in an underbust variation, and possibly a
                > "belt" variation.
                >
                > I'm curious if anyone here has seen the pattern and can clue me in on
                > manufacturer / pattern number. Looks like a good basic "Ren" thing, if I
                > could just track it down.
                >
                > --Karen
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Koumori
                I just happened to run across a picture of the envelope front of McCall s M4861, and it looks like exactly what you are describing. It s got 5 views of laced
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 10, 2005
                  I just happened to run across a picture of the envelope front of
                  McCall's M4861, and it looks like exactly what you are describing.
                  It's got 5 views of laced Tudor-esque corsets, with or without tabs,
                  and one of the versions is a smaller "cincher" type. No idea whether
                  it's still in print.

                  Maura

                  --- In ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@p...> wrote:
                  > No, it isn't Butterick 4254.
                  >
                  > Whatever this pattern is, I am 99.9% certain it is NOT produced by
                  the "Big
                  > Three" pattern companies. I'm fairly sure it's by some "independent"
                  > company--I just need to figure out which one.
                  >
                  > Somebody else wrote me off-list and suggested the Laughing Moon corset
                  > pattern, and it is NOT that, either, as the look is Ren/Tudor
                  (conical NOT
                  > hourglass silhouette), NOT Victorian.
                  >
                  > To summarize: the pattern I'm looking for is Tudor-esque in
                  silhouette, has
                  > 3 or 4 different distinct variations, and is produced by an independent
                  > pattern company. I say "Tudor-esque" because it laces in places
                  where no
                  > respectable Tudor corset ever did.
                  >
                  > --Karen
                  >
                  > At 09:32 AM 7/10/2005 -0500, you wrote:
                  > >Karen,
                  > >this sounds like Butterick, B4254. It should be in their current
                  selection
                  > >under historical costume.
                  > >
                  > >Genie,
                  > >Snow fallen on snow,
                  > > and this evening, the full moon of November
                  > >Basho
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >----- Original Message -----
                  > >From: "Ricky & Karen Dick" <castleb@p...>
                  > >To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
                  > >Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:01 PM
                  > >Subject: RE: [ICG-D] Seeking corset pattern
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > A seamstress at an event I went to had this in her "book of
                  patterns"
                  > > > (along with offerings from Simplicity, Butterick, and McCall's).
                  No maker
                  > > > or style number listed (although she did have these listed for other
                  > > > patterns). The pattern art showed four line drawings of a strapless
                  > > > Tudor-ish corset that had lacings down the sides or down the two
                  sides of
                  > > > the front "V". It also came in an underbust variation, and
                  possibly a
                  > > > "belt" variation.
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm curious if anyone here has seen the pattern and can clue me
                  in on
                  > > > manufacturer / pattern number. Looks like a good basic "Ren"
                  thing, if I
                  > > > could just track it down.
                  > > >
                  > > > --Karen
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > ><?---- LSpots keywords ?> <?---- HM ADS ?>
                  > >
                  > >----------
                  > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  > > * Visit your group
                  "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D>ICG-D" on
                  > > the web.
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                  > > *
                  > >
                  <mailto:ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  > >
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                  > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
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                  > >
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                  > >----------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ricky & Karen Dick
                  I *knew* somebody on this list would come through. :-) McCall s 4861 is the WINNER!!! I think it s relatively new, and is on the current website. Here s the
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 10, 2005
                    I *knew* somebody on this list would come through. :-)

                    McCall's 4861 is the WINNER!!! I think it's relatively new, and is on the
                    current website. Here's the link:

                    http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4861.htm

                    Wow, I would have sworn, based on the art, that it was from an independent
                    pattern company.
                    Usually, the "Big Three" use photos of finished garments vs. line drawings.

                    I usually keep up on the latest and greatest from
                    Butterick-McCall's-Simplicity, but obviously, I haven't been in a fabric
                    store in a while. (Too busy chained to the sewing machine cranking out
                    costumes for the Kennywood theme park.)

                    THANK YOU to everyone who had pattern suggestions. Sometimes, even when
                    something is not the primary thing I'm looking for, the other suggestions
                    have possibilities, too.

                    --Karen

                    At 07:58 PM 7/10/2005 +0000, you wrote:
                    >I just happened to run across a picture of the envelope front of
                    >McCall's M4861, and it looks like exactly what you are describing.
                    >It's got 5 views of laced Tudor-esque corsets, with or without tabs,
                    >and one of the versions is a smaller "cincher" type. No idea whether
                    >it's still in print.
                    >
                    >Maura
                    >
                    >--- In ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@p...> wrote:
                    > > No, it isn't Butterick 4254.
                    > >
                    > > Whatever this pattern is, I am 99.9% certain it is NOT produced by
                    >the "Big
                    > > Three" pattern companies. I'm fairly sure it's by some "independent"
                    > > company--I just need to figure out which one.
                    > >
                    > > Somebody else wrote me off-list and suggested the Laughing Moon corset
                    > > pattern, and it is NOT that, either, as the look is Ren/Tudor
                    >(conical NOT
                    > > hourglass silhouette), NOT Victorian.
                    > >
                    > > To summarize: the pattern I'm looking for is Tudor-esque in
                    >silhouette, has
                    > > 3 or 4 different distinct variations, and is produced by an independent
                    > > pattern company. I say "Tudor-esque" because it laces in places
                    >where no
                    > > respectable Tudor corset ever did.
                    > >
                    > > --Karen
                    > >
                    > > At 09:32 AM 7/10/2005 -0500, you wrote:
                    > > >Karen,
                    > > >this sounds like Butterick, B4254. It should be in their current
                    >selection
                    > > >under historical costume.
                    > > >
                    > > >Genie,
                    > > >Snow fallen on snow,
                    > > > and this evening, the full moon of November
                    > > >Basho
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >----- Original Message -----
                    > > >From: "Ricky & Karen Dick" <castleb@p...>
                    > > >To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > >Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:01 PM
                    > > >Subject: RE: [ICG-D] Seeking corset pattern
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > A seamstress at an event I went to had this in her "book of
                    >patterns"
                    > > > > (along with offerings from Simplicity, Butterick, and McCall's).
                    >No maker
                    > > > > or style number listed (although she did have these listed for other
                    > > > > patterns). The pattern art showed four line drawings of a strapless
                    > > > > Tudor-ish corset that had lacings down the sides or down the two
                    >sides of
                    > > > > the front "V". It also came in an underbust variation, and
                    >possibly a
                    > > > > "belt" variation.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I'm curious if anyone here has seen the pattern and can clue me
                    >in on
                    > > > > manufacturer / pattern number. Looks like a good basic "Ren"
                    >thing, if I
                    > > > > could just track it down.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --Karen
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > ><?---- LSpots keywords ?> <?---- HM ADS ?>
                    > > >
                    > > >----------
                    > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    > > > * Visit your group
                    >"<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D>ICG-D"
                    >on
                    > > > the web.
                    > > > *
                    > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > *
                    > > >
                    ><mailto:ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > > *
                    > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                    > > >
                    > <<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo!
                    > Terms of Service.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >----------
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    ><?---- LSpots keywords ?> <?---- HM ADS ?>
                    >
                    >----------
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ricky & Karen Dick
                    I custom cut and grind my own corset bones to get steel boning the exact length I need. (I use a variety of corset patterns, and trying to have pre-made pieces
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 10, 2005
                      I custom cut and grind my own corset bones to get steel boning the exact
                      length I need. (I use a variety of corset patterns, and trying to have
                      pre-made pieces on hand in all the lengths required would be a nightmare,
                      so I just buy the longest boning I can--20" to 22"--and cut it down. Long
                      pieces go in full-length corsets; cut-off pieces often are the right
                      lengths to go in shorter corsets, boned belts, or other boned garments.)

                      I seem to order a one-pint can of latex-based "tipping fluid" (available
                      from Greenberg & Hammer, Grannd Garb, etc.) every 6-12 months for covering
                      up the raw edges on the cut and ground boning (so it doesn't rust, or chew
                      through the corset).

                      In the middle of making my latest batch of corsets, I realized, much to my
                      dismay, that my current can of "tipping fluid" had reached the end of its
                      useful lifetime and had cured into one big jellified lump.
                      (Sometimes, when it starts to thicken up, it can be thinned with water, but
                      once it has reached this stage, it is hopeless.)
                      I ordered more tipping fluid via mail-order from Grannd, but didn't want to
                      wait to finish my corsets until it arrived.

                      I found a useable substitute at the local Lowe's/Home Depot in the form of
                      something called "Plasti-Dip." It is intended for coating tool handles and
                      the like. It also seems to coat corset boning just fine.

                      The pros:
                      Available locally
                      About half the price of "tipping fluid"
                      Cures more rapidly than "tipping fluid" (4 hours vs. 8 hours)
                      Same properties as tipping fluid (waterproof, rustproof, dulls sharp edges)

                      The cons:
                      Comes in several colors, but NOT white (therefore can't be used with
                      light-colored corsets)
                      Is highly toxic (warnings all over the can not to breathe the fumes, and
                      can only be thinned with more noxious chemicals vs. water)
                      Takes two coats to get the same coverage as one coat of tipping fluid
                      Unknown shelf life (poor, non-airtight packaging)

                      So far, I've been fairly impressed with this stuff, and wanted to pass
                      along the work-around to those of you who make your own corsets. Plasti-Dip
                      would also be good for dulling sharp edges, or for putting a colorful
                      plastic coating, on items other than corset boning.

                      --Karen




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lisa A. Ashton
                      We ve used the Plasti-Dip to coat metal hooks that we made for hanging heavy objects on a wall. It worked very well, once we got the hang of doing it and
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 11, 2005
                        We've used the Plasti-Dip to coat metal hooks that we made for hanging
                        heavy objects on a wall. It worked very well, once we got the hang of
                        doing it and avoiding the drips that ensue! We used the bright blue
                        color and that was good, because the color stood out against the carpeted
                        wall surface. We've now had the hooks and objects hanging for well over
                        5 years without any change or drying out of the Plasti-Dip coating, so it
                        worked well. I agree with you about the packaging though; once we had
                        made our hooks there was no way to preserve the rest of the stuff and it
                        dried out.

                        Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
                      • rookwoods
                        ... drawings. Sometimes when they ve rushed a pattern into production they don t have time to make it up (or if they don t have someone to put it on that
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 11, 2005
                          --- In ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@p...> wrote:
                          > Usually, the "Big Three" use photos of finished garments vs. line
                          drawings.


                          Sometimes when they've rushed a pattern into production they don't
                          have time to make it up (or if they don't have someone to put it on
                          that fits...) and they use line drawings. I've seen it a number of
                          times in both Butterick & McCall's (same company). Lately I've also
                          been seeing McCall's using gorgeous photos of their costumes on white
                          mannequins.

                          -Judy
                        • Ricky & Karen Dick
                          ... I ve had some success with putting either aluminum foil or plastic wrap over the mouth of the can and then putting the plastic lid on. I ve been storing it
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 11, 2005
                            At 07:50 AM 7/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
                            >[Re Plasti-Dip] I agree with you about the packaging though; once we had
                            >made our hooks there was no way to preserve the rest of the stuff and it
                            >dried out.

                            I've had some success with putting either aluminum foil or plastic wrap
                            over the mouth of the can and then putting the plastic lid on. I've been
                            storing it in my basement, which is cooler than the rest of the house
                            (especially in the 90 degree weather we've already been having this summer!
                            So far, it's lasted about a month, although I have to shake it or stir it
                            every time I use it, and overall, it is getting more and more goopy.

                            For those of you who haven't seen the product, it comes in a tall 14-oz can
                            with a pop-top lid. Then there's a thin plastic snap-on lid for use once
                            the pop-top is gone. It's rather like a Pringles can overall.
                            Alternatively, tipping fluid comes in a steel 1-pint can like a paint can
                            with an airtight lid.

                            I actually wrote the company that makes Plasti-Dip re their lousy
                            packaging, but I suspect they don't care. Most people who use their product
                            probably dip their tool handles and then throw the rest away.

                            Another product with a lousy shelf life is that clear Magna-tac or
                            Fabri-tac type glue, which some of us have been using since the Dark Ages
                            when you could only buy it in the millinery shops in NYC. It's a great
                            product, tacks up quick but still has "play time" before setting up
                            completely, dries clear, and you can sew through it. But once you open a
                            bottle, the clock is ticking, and it will congeal into a solid lump in a
                            very short time once it is exposed to air. I used to plan a lot of gluing
                            projects at once so waste was minimized. Now I only buy the smaller-sized
                            bottles so I don't end up throwing away 50-60% of a big bottle.

                            --Karen



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • victoriandiva@aol.com
                            In a message dated 7/11/2005 10:24:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, ICG-D@yahoogroups.com writes: Sometimes when they ve rushed a pattern into production they
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 11, 2005
                              In a message dated 7/11/2005 10:24:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                              ICG-D@yahoogroups.com writes:
                              Sometimes when they've rushed a pattern into production they don't
                              have time to make it up (or if they don't have someone to put it on
                              that fits...) and they use line drawings. I've seen it a number of
                              times in both Butterick & McCall's (same company). Lately I've also
                              been seeing McCall's using gorgeous photos of their costumes on white
                              mannequins.

                              -Judy
                              Actually, they always have their administrative assistants around, who also
                              double as fit models. Every now and again what used to be the Big Four (now
                              the Big 2?) would run an ad for an AA, with rather complete and very specific
                              physical measurements that the AA had to match in addition to her office skills.
                              As I recall, they wanted a size 10 miss (not woman, not girl) and they were
                              very clear that the AA would be required to serve as a fit model in addition
                              to everything else.

                              Also, having worked peripherally with some of the designers who produce these
                              historic garments, I can safely say they've had ample time to make samples in
                              developing the pattern, because of the way they develop patterns. Unlike the
                              independent companies, the majors have to proof all sizes of the pattern
                              after they have the original sent out to get re-sized by cad. They simply cannot
                              afford to send out patterns that don't go together well.

                              More likely, this is a marketing decision they've made about having a shoot
                              done - if they think a pattern will sell better by looking "old-fashioned", or
                              if they think the pattern will have a limited run, so they don't want to
                              photograph the finished piece and go through the expense that photography entails.

                              Whatever the reason, however, you can be assured it isn't because of a
                              paucity of models or samples....they're headquartered here in NYC and models are a
                              dime a dozen, as are sample fabricators & photography studios, designers, etc
                              etc.

                              ~shenlei


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ricky & Karen Dick
                              Because they re trying to appeal to the Historical Reenactor market, I wonder if they re trying to make their patterns resemble those of the independent
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 11, 2005
                                Because they're trying to appeal to the Historical Reenactor market, I
                                wonder if they're trying to make their patterns resemble those of the
                                independent pattern companies that the HR people are used to dealing with.

                                Certainly fooled me--I thought it was some new offering from one of the
                                independents.

                                --Karen

                                At 10:57 AM 7/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
                                >More likely, this is a marketing decision they've made about having a shoot
                                >done - if they think a pattern will sell better by looking
                                >"old-fashioned", or
                                >if they think the pattern will have a limited run, so they don't want to
                                >photograph the finished piece and go through the expense that photography
                                >entails.



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Cat Devereaux
                                ... of a ... and models are a ... designers, etc ... Well, don t know about the corset pattern... but the line drawn fantasy gowns they ve just put out..
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 11, 2005
                                  > Whatever the reason, however, you can be assured it isn't because
                                  of a
                                  > paucity of models or samples....they're headquartered here in NYC
                                  and models are a
                                  > dime a dozen, as are sample fabricators & photography studios,
                                  designers, etc
                                  > etc.
                                  >

                                  Well, don't know about the corset pattern... but the line drawn
                                  fantasy gowns they've just put out.. that's a different story. We
                                  had folks trying to use them on the LOTR Costume list. Note,
                                  keyword, TRYING. These new patterns didn't seem to fit anyone
                                  proplerly in the arm and chest area. They took a lot more futzing,
                                  and even the intermediate folks said, not worth it... so we went
                                  back to just recomending the newer Simplicity instead. I believe
                                  the expeicences were on multiple different patterns of that new
                                  set... so I'd do a lot of size checking before beliving those
                                  patterns. IMHO.

                                  -Cat-
                                • Ricky & Karen Dick
                                  Hi Marty. If you get a chance before you come up, can you print up more tri-folds with one slight change. on the 100-500 deals, they list tickets as VIP
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 12, 2005
                                    Hi Marty.

                                    If you get a chance before you come up, can you print up more tri-folds
                                    with one slight change.

                                    on the 100-500 deals, they list tickets as VIP tickets.
                                    Please change that to Anytime Tickets, like the 50 deal says.

                                    in a changing landscape for attractions now, people think VIP tix means
                                    they can go right to the front of the line. Many places do this for a extra
                                    charge. there's no way we can do 2 lines out on the side walk.

                                    So if you haven't printed more yet and can do that change that would be great.

                                    I have a work around if it's too late

                                    Ricky
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