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Re: [ICG-D] Noreason 4 Costume Display

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  • Scott & JoAnn Abbott
    Do you have enough dressmakers dummies to diplay the costumes though? I have a 1550 s German Ren, black satin and stripes I can bring for display if you want.
    Message 1 of 30 , Jul 2, 2004
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      Do you have enough dressmakers dummies to diplay the costumes though? I have a 1550's German Ren, black satin and stripes I can bring for display if you want. With all the doo-dads and hats etc to go with it.

      JoAnn in VA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Elaine Mami
      JoAnn, I would love it! I will also want a brief description, including any awards it got, so I can make signs. We have a fair amount of dummies/mannequins,
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 2, 2004
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        JoAnn,

        I would love it! I will also want a brief description, including any awards
        it got, so I can make signs. We have a fair amount of dummies/mannequins,
        but can always use more. Depends on how many costumes we get, of course.

        Elaine



        >
        >Do you have enough dressmakers dummies to diplay the costumes though? I
        >have a 1550's German Ren, black satin and stripes I can bring for display
        >if you want. With all the doo-dads and hats etc to go with it.
        >
        >JoAnn in VA

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      • Byron Connell
        We are planning to bring Corwin. Are other members of the Trumps of Amber who are attending bringing their costumes from this entry? Byron ... From: Elaine
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 2, 2004
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          We are planning to bring Corwin. Are other members of the Trumps of Amber who are attending bringing their costumes from this entry?

          Byron


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Elaine Mami<mailto:ecmami@...>
          To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:02 PM
          Subject: [ICG-D] Noreason 4 Costume Display




          Well, I'm going to jump on the bandwagon. If you are going to be at N4, and
          have some room in your luggage ;-), PLEASE let me display one or more of
          your great costumes for all the world to see. We have a space about 30'X30'
          in the main concourse, and the display area will be provided with good
          security. I already have about 9 costumes to show, and that's not nearly
          enough! I can also display accessories, headpieces, etc.

          Please contact me here, or off-line at ecmami@..., or by phone at
          973-994-3162 (after 9 p.m., please).

          And, for those of you who will be arriving early, the con-com would like to
          see lots of hall costumes at the Thursday night First Night gathering. See
          me for more details.

          Elaine

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Scott & JoAnn Abbott
          Will you need the historical info on it before the con, or should I just type it up for a display card and bring it along? It is a very upper class dress; I
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 2, 2004
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            Will you need the historical info on it before the con, or should I just type it up for a display card and bring it along? It is a very upper class dress; I also have the "Mobile Swiss army tent", a lower/middle class red and white I made over 25 years ago and which I still wear to Pennsic- ok, so the bodice has been let out a few times since I was 20...:o) It has a matching mens Landesknect I made for my husband a few years back, I can haul them along as well. I even made matching outfits for the kids (CC6 I think, the photos of them in the outfts are on line somewhere) I think their outfits have been passed along to others though. Especially since they are now 6'3" and 5'6"...

            JoAnn in VA


            JoAnn,

            I would love it! I will also want a brief description, including any awards
            it got, so I can make signs. We have a fair amount of dummies/mannequins,
            but can always use more. Depends on how many costumes we get, of course.

            Elaine



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Julie Zetterberg Sardo
            ... of Amber who are attending bringing their costumes from this entry? ... Greg will be bringing his Eric costume - he says he d be happy to display it rather
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 5, 2004
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              --- In ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, "Byron Connell" <bpconnell@v...> wrote:
              > We are planning to bring Corwin. Are other members of the Trumps
              of Amber who are attending bringing their costumes from this entry?
              >
              > Byron

              Greg will be bringing his Eric costume - he says he'd be happy to
              display it rather than wear it.

              Elaine, I'll contact you off-list about it and another possible
              display item.

              --Julie ZS
            • Dany
              I didn t go to this, but I looked at the winners just out of curiousity, and because it s one of the bigger anime masquerades. I wish the pictures were
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 5, 2004
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                I didn't go to this, but I looked at the winners just out of curiousity, and
                because it's one of the bigger anime masquerades. I wish the pictures were
                better, as the Rose of Versailles group looks really REALLY neat..but I
                figured many of us might like some of the work that went into these
                costumes.

                http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/axcosp.htm

                Here's some individuals of each group as they came off the stage. Some
                better pictures than on the winners' page..

                http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/ax04c.html

                Overall, just very cool stuff to look at...and good reference for me, as I'm
                taking on the anime end of things next year...

                Dany
                -already has some of the material in fact..
              • Ricky & Karen Dick
                WOW! Some really nicely done stuff there. Thanks for the links. I did anime stuff in the 80 s, and would *still* be doing it if I were still as thin as I was
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 5, 2004
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                  WOW! Some really nicely done stuff there. Thanks for the links.

                  I did anime stuff in the 80's, and would *still* be doing it if I were
                  still as thin as I was then.

                  We really need to court these kids for Costume-Con.

                  --Karen

                  At 08:57 PM 7/5/2004 -0700, you wrote:
                  >I didn't go to this, but I looked at the winners just out of curiousity, and
                  >because it's one of the bigger anime masquerades. I wish the pictures were
                  >better, as the Rose of Versailles group looks really REALLY neat..but I
                  >figured many of us might like some of the work that went into these
                  >costumes.

                  >Dany
                  >-already has some of the material in fact..
                • Dany
                  ... I got to meet the fellow who runs CosplayLab.com and his family here a week ago. They were a really sweet family of costumer/cosplayers, and really into
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 5, 2004
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                    > We really need to court these kids for Costume-Con.
                    >
                    > --Karen

                    I got to meet the fellow who runs CosplayLab.com and his family here a week
                    ago. They were a really sweet family of costumer/cosplayers, and really into
                    the idea of it as an art form. I told him about CostumeCon, and he seems
                    interested in it, so who knows, we might actually see him and his family
                    show up to one. Even if they don't participate in the Masquerades, it would
                    make me really happy if they were able to come.

                    Something I've noticed is that those I've spoken to, in the anime community
                    as well as in other venues I've subscribed myself to, have no idea
                    CostumeCon exists. It surprises me that so few really good costumers are
                    unaware of it, especially those who have been doing things like Masquerades
                    for a while.

                    I'm sure some of them would really appreciate the detailed eye that
                    CostumeCon put into judging entries. I've already noticed a few people
                    unhappy with AX's methods of judging workmanship posting to the Cosplay.com
                    forum boards. Kind of sad, really. There was one reference to someone I am
                    acquainted with (and met briefly at BayCon) whose children made most of
                    their costumes themselves, and were almost completely overlooked by the
                    workmanship judges. Now, if I recall correctly, these kids were not even
                    teenagers (I know at least one is under 13), and they're putting together
                    their own stuff!

                    That, in and of itself, impresses me.

                    I'm babbling. I have my own Masquerade entry that the clock is ticking on
                    *ee!*

                    Dany
                    -might find herself recruiting at ComicCon..
                  • Ricky & Karen Dick
                    Dany-- I went and looked at ALL the photos on the links you posted. And what impressed me is the variety and vibrancy of the entries, and that everyone seemed
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 5, 2004
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                      Dany--

                      I went and looked at ALL the photos on the links you posted.

                      And what impressed me is the variety and vibrancy of the entries, and that
                      everyone seemed to be getting a kick out of what they were doing. The
                      overall "vibe" is very much like the first media conventions I attended in
                      the 70's, and the San Diego Comic-Con and WorldCon in the 80's.

                      And it's real obvious that some of the entrants were making a real effort
                      on their costumes / makeup / hair. And the guys doing mecha suits--WOW!

                      I would like to see them attend Costume-Con, where their efforts will still
                      be appreciated. Well-done media re-creation costumes are still well done
                      costumes.

                      It is obvious to me that general S/F conventions are not the masquerade
                      "feeder" system that they once were, and if we are asking ourselves where
                      all the teens and twentysomethings went, we need look no further than these
                      anime cons.

                      Because of Costume-Con's media and S/F convention roots, I think the anime
                      folk would be a good match with Costume-Con if we can just convince them to
                      come and try it.

                      If there's anything you can do to recruit folks at the conventions you
                      attend, it would be time well spent. They probably haven't heard of
                      Costume-Con because it hasn't been east of the Mississippi in so long, and
                      because it doesn't have "anime" tagged onto it as a keyword.

                      --Karen

                      At 09:55 PM 7/5/2004 -0700, you wrote:
                      >I got to meet the fellow who runs CosplayLab.com and his family here a week
                      >ago. They were a really sweet family of costumer/cosplayers, and really into
                      >the idea of it as an art form. I told him about CostumeCon, and he seems
                      >interested in it, so who knows, we might actually see him and his family
                      >show up to one. Even if they don't participate in the Masquerades, it would
                      >make me really happy if they were able to come.
                      >
                      >Something I've noticed is that those I've spoken to, in the anime community
                      >as well as in other venues I've subscribed myself to, have no idea
                      >CostumeCon exists. It surprises me that so few really good costumers are
                      >unaware of it, especially those who have been doing things like Masquerades
                      >for a while.
                      >
                      >I'm sure some of them would really appreciate the detailed eye that
                      >CostumeCon put into judging entries. I've already noticed a few people
                      >unhappy with AX's methods of judging workmanship posting to the Cosplay.com
                      >forum boards. Kind of sad, really. There was one reference to someone I am
                      >acquainted with (and met briefly at BayCon) whose children made most of
                      >their costumes themselves, and were almost completely overlooked by the
                      >workmanship judges. Now, if I recall correctly, these kids were not even
                      >teenagers (I know at least one is under 13), and they're putting together
                      >their own stuff!
                      >
                      >That, in and of itself, impresses me.
                      >
                      >I'm babbling. I have my own Masquerade entry that the clock is ticking on
                      >*ee!*
                      >
                      >Dany
                      >-might find herself recruiting at ComicCon..
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Dany
                      ... Speaking of name-tagging.. I don t know if this is something that can be addressed now, but it s something I ve come across as well when talking about CC
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 5, 2004
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                        > If there's anything you can do to recruit folks at the
                        > conventions you attend, it would be time well spent. They
                        > probably haven't heard of Costume-Con because it hasn't been
                        > east of the Mississippi in so long, and because it doesn't
                        > have "anime" tagged onto it as a keyword.

                        Speaking of name-tagging..

                        I don't know if this is something that can be addressed now, but it's
                        something I've come across as well when talking about CC to the anime
                        types...

                        When I tell them that there are two Masquerades..the Historical and the
                        SciFi/Fantasy...I get the feeling sometimes that they aren't certain if an
                        anime costume can be brought in. We had our Lulu last year, of course, and
                        I've mentioned that (and I'm sure there might have been others I'm not
                        remembering), but I think they see the label "SciFi/Fantasy" as implying
                        that anime doesn't count. Afterall, there are those who do anime
                        conventions that firmly believe that non-anime/non-Japanese culture costumes
                        shouldn't be there, they might think that anime isn't considered because of
                        the "SciFi/Fantasy" label.

                        I've noticed that the term "Non-Historical" seems to catch their attention a
                        bit more. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue name-schematics or
                        anything, but it might be something to think about down the road that might
                        make it sound as inclusive as we obviously are.

                        Ideas? Comments? Stick figures?

                        Dany
                        -blablabla...
                      • Bruce & Nora Mai
                        Historical often includes accurate ethnic (which has often been around in it s present form for eons); SF & Fantasy includes virtually everything else. I would
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                          Historical often includes accurate ethnic (which has often been around in
                          it's present form for eons); SF & Fantasy includes virtually everything
                          else.
                          I would automatically assume that anime belongs in the latter; do they
                          assume because it doesn't specifically mention anime that it doesn't belong
                          there? Where do you think they feel they belong? Many sub-categories (furry
                          for instance) don't have a seperate mention but are included in SF&F - I've
                          always thought of it as an umbrella term.
                          Any ideas on how this could be made clearer to them?
                          And, yes, recruit please. It's so much easier for those who are already
                          attending special interest events to hook up with people there than for
                          someone who's not to become familiar with all these existing groups.

                          Nora
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Dany" <dany@...>
                          > Speaking of name-tagging..
                          > When I tell them that there are two Masquerades..the Historical and the
                          > SciFi/Fantasy...I get the feeling sometimes that they aren't certain if an
                          > anime costume can be brought in. We had our Lulu last year, of course,
                          and
                          > I've mentioned that (and I'm sure there might have been others I'm not
                          > remembering), but I think they see the label "SciFi/Fantasy" as implying
                          > that anime doesn't count. Afterall, there are those who do anime
                          > conventions that firmly believe that non-anime/non-Japanese culture
                          costumes
                          > shouldn't be there, they might think that anime isn't considered because
                          of
                          > the "SciFi/Fantasy" label.
                          >
                          > I've noticed that the term "Non-Historical" seems to catch their attention
                          a
                          > bit more. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue name-schematics or
                          > anything, but it might be something to think about down the road that
                          might
                          > make it sound as inclusive as we obviously are.
                        • A. Thurman
                          These are, indeed, breathtaking! The time taken, and the sheer volume of people....wow! Hope I have time to go through more of it later on! Allison
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                            These are, indeed, breathtaking! The time taken, and the sheer volume
                            of people....wow!

                            Hope I have time to go through more of it later on!

                            Allison

                            On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:57:51 -0700, Dany <dany@...> wrote:
                            > I didn't go to this, but I looked at the winners just out of curiousity, and
                            > because it's one of the bigger anime masquerades. I wish the pictures were
                            > better, as the Rose of Versailles group looks really REALLY neat..but I
                            > figured many of us might like some of the work that went into these
                            > costumes.
                            >
                            > http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/axcosp.htm
                            >
                            > Here's some individuals of each group as they came off the stage. Some
                            > better pictures than on the winners' page..
                            >
                            > http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/ax04c.html
                            >
                            > Overall, just very cool stuff to look at...and good reference for me, as I'm
                            > taking on the anime end of things next year...
                            >
                            > Dany
                            > -already has some of the material in fact..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                          • Elaine Mami
                            It would be really great to have the info in advance, so I can make signs. I m not sure yet, but I think I would like the others, as well. I do like the idea
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                              It would be really great to have the info in advance, so I can make signs.
                              I'm not sure yet, but I think I would like the others, as well. I do like
                              the idea of a not-totally-fantasy display, even at an SF/F con. I'll let
                              you know as soon as I have a better idea of the total number of pieces I'm
                              getting. Please plan on bringing them unless I tell you not to.

                              Thanks so much again!

                              Elaine


                              >
                              >Will you need the historical info on it before the con, or should I just
                              >type it up for a display card and bring it along? It is a very upper class
                              >dress; I also have the "Mobile Swiss army tent", a lower/middle class red
                              >and white I made over 25 years ago and which I still wear to Pennsic- ok,
                              >so the bodice has been let out a few times since I was 20...:o) It has a
                              >matching mens Landesknect I made for my husband a few years back, I can
                              >haul them along as well. I even made matching outfits for the kids (CC6 I
                              >think, the photos of them in the outfts are on line somewhere) I think
                              >their outfits have been passed along to others though. Especially since
                              >they are now 6'3" and 5'6"...
                              >
                              >JoAnn in VA
                              >
                              >
                              > JoAnn,
                              >
                              > I would love it! I will also want a brief description, including any
                              >awards
                              > it got, so I can make signs. We have a fair amount of
                              >dummies/mannequins,
                              > but can always use more. Depends on how many costumes we get, of
                              >course.
                              >
                              > Elaine

                              _________________________________________________________________
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                            • C. D. Mami
                              we could just add anime to the title Sf fanasty and anime Carl ... From: Bruce & Nora Mai [mailto:casamai@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:28 AM
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                we could just add anime to the title Sf fanasty and anime
                                Carl

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Bruce & Nora Mai [mailto:casamai@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:28 AM
                                To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners


                                Historical often includes accurate ethnic (which has often been around in
                                it's present form for eons); SF & Fantasy includes virtually everything
                                else.
                                I would automatically assume that anime belongs in the latter; do they
                                assume because it doesn't specifically mention anime that it doesn't belong
                                there? Where do you think they feel they belong? Many sub-categories (furry
                                for instance) don't have a seperate mention but are included in SF&F - I've
                                always thought of it as an umbrella term.
                                Any ideas on how this could be made clearer to them?
                                And, yes, recruit please. It's so much easier for those who are already
                                attending special interest events to hook up with people there than for
                                someone who's not to become familiar with all these existing groups.

                                Nora
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Dany" <dany@...>
                                > Speaking of name-tagging..
                                > When I tell them that there are two Masquerades..the Historical and the
                                > SciFi/Fantasy...I get the feeling sometimes that they aren't certain if an
                                > anime costume can be brought in. We had our Lulu last year, of course,
                                and
                                > I've mentioned that (and I'm sure there might have been others I'm not
                                > remembering), but I think they see the label "SciFi/Fantasy" as implying
                                > that anime doesn't count. Afterall, there are those who do anime
                                > conventions that firmly believe that non-anime/non-Japanese culture
                                costumes
                                > shouldn't be there, they might think that anime isn't considered because
                                of
                                > the "SciFi/Fantasy" label.
                                >
                                > I've noticed that the term "Non-Historical" seems to catch their attention
                                a
                                > bit more. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue name-schematics or
                                > anything, but it might be something to think about down the road that
                                might
                                > make it sound as inclusive as we obviously are.





                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Dany
                                A small update: The kids I brought up earlier that I wasn t sure of their ages? 9 and 13. They just started learning to sew last fall. They re getting young!!
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                  A small update: The kids I brought up earlier that I wasn't sure of their
                                  ages?

                                  9 and 13. They just started learning to sew last fall.

                                  They're getting young!!

                                  Dany
                                  -highly impressed
                                • Ricky & Karen Dick
                                  Dany-- Good idea. When I was competing anime stuff in the 80 s, it worked in sci-fi masquerades because it was stuff from SPACE Cruiser Yamato, SPACE Pirate
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                    Dany--

                                    Good idea.

                                    When I was competing anime stuff in the 80's, it worked in sci-fi
                                    masquerades because it was stuff from SPACE Cruiser Yamato, SPACE Pirate
                                    Captain Harlock, GALAXY Express 999, and SPACE Fortress Macross.

                                    But, obviously, anime covers a whole lot more territory these days.

                                    I'd lump 'em in with "fantasy," but maybe they need it spelled out more
                                    explicitly...?

                                    Would it make more sense to rename the SciFi/Fantasy, or lump Anime on the
                                    end, or ? Any ideas on wording? Andy?

                                    --Karen

                                    At 11:02 PM 7/5/2004 -0700, you wrote:
                                    > > If there's anything you can do to recruit folks at the
                                    > > conventions you attend, it would be time well spent. They
                                    > > probably haven't heard of Costume-Con because it hasn't been
                                    > > east of the Mississippi in so long, and because it doesn't
                                    > > have "anime" tagged onto it as a keyword.
                                    >
                                    >Speaking of name-tagging..
                                    >
                                    >I don't know if this is something that can be addressed now, but it's
                                    >something I've come across as well when talking about CC to the anime
                                    >types...
                                    >
                                    >When I tell them that there are two Masquerades..the Historical and the
                                    >SciFi/Fantasy...I get the feeling sometimes that they aren't certain if an
                                    >anime costume can be brought in. We had our Lulu last year, of course, and
                                    >I've mentioned that (and I'm sure there might have been others I'm not
                                    >remembering), but I think they see the label "SciFi/Fantasy" as implying
                                    >that anime doesn't count. Afterall, there are those who do anime
                                    >conventions that firmly believe that non-anime/non-Japanese culture costumes
                                    >shouldn't be there, they might think that anime isn't considered because of
                                    >the "SciFi/Fantasy" label.
                                    >
                                    >I've noticed that the term "Non-Historical" seems to catch their attention a
                                    >bit more. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue name-schematics or
                                    >anything, but it might be something to think about down the road that might
                                    >make it sound as inclusive as we obviously are.
                                    >
                                    >Ideas? Comments? Stick figures?
                                    >
                                    >Dany
                                    >-blablabla...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Ricky & Karen Dick
                                    ... Yeah, I thought fantasy was a good cover word for anything that wasn t S/F. Maybe this just needs to be spelled out more in our literature (flyers, PRs,
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                      At 06:28 AM 7/6/2004 -0500, you wrote:
                                      >Many sub-categories (furry
                                      >for instance) don't have a seperate mention but are included in SF&F - I've
                                      >always thought of it as an umbrella term.
                                      >Any ideas on how this could be made clearer to them?

                                      Yeah, I thought "fantasy" was a good cover word for anything that wasn't S/F.

                                      Maybe this just needs to be spelled out more in our literature (flyers,
                                      PRs, etc.), though, and on the website, so people know it means anime,
                                      furry, LARP, and "peri-oid" costumes that don't fit into the Historical.

                                      Guess I should be looking at Costume-Con.org this week to see where this
                                      might go. Betsy?

                                      --Karen
                                    • Ricky & Karen Dick
                                      But then how much else should we be adding, too, to include other groups? Should it be the SF/Fantasy/Anime/Furry/LARP/Art-to-Wear...? There has to be an
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                        But then how much else should we be adding, too, to include other groups?

                                        Should it be the SF/Fantasy/Anime/Furry/LARP/Art-to-Wear...?

                                        There has to be an easier way.

                                        --Karen

                                        At 09:39 AM 7/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
                                        >we could just add anime to the title Sf fanasty and anime
                                        >Carl
                                        >
                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                        >From: Bruce & Nora Mai [mailto:casamai@...]
                                        >Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:28 AM
                                        >To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Historical often includes accurate ethnic (which has often been around in
                                        >it's present form for eons); SF & Fantasy includes virtually everything
                                        >else.
                                        >I would automatically assume that anime belongs in the latter; do they
                                        >assume because it doesn't specifically mention anime that it doesn't belong
                                        >there? Where do you think they feel they belong? Many sub-categories (furry
                                        >for instance) don't have a seperate mention but are included in SF&F - I've
                                        >always thought of it as an umbrella term.
                                        >Any ideas on how this could be made clearer to them?
                                        >And, yes, recruit please. It's so much easier for those who are already
                                        >attending special interest events to hook up with people there than for
                                        >someone who's not to become familiar with all these existing groups.
                                        >
                                        >Nora
                                        >----- Original Message -----
                                        >From: "Dany" <dany@...>
                                        > > Speaking of name-tagging..
                                        > > When I tell them that there are two Masquerades..the Historical and the
                                        > > SciFi/Fantasy...I get the feeling sometimes that they aren't certain if an
                                        > > anime costume can be brought in. We had our Lulu last year, of course,
                                        >and
                                        > > I've mentioned that (and I'm sure there might have been others I'm not
                                        > > remembering), but I think they see the label "SciFi/Fantasy" as implying
                                        > > that anime doesn't count. Afterall, there are those who do anime
                                        > > conventions that firmly believe that non-anime/non-Japanese culture
                                        >costumes
                                        > > shouldn't be there, they might think that anime isn't considered because
                                        >of
                                        > > the "SciFi/Fantasy" label.
                                        > >
                                        > > I've noticed that the term "Non-Historical" seems to catch their attention
                                        >a
                                        > > bit more. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue name-schematics or
                                        > > anything, but it might be something to think about down the road that
                                        >might
                                        > > make it sound as inclusive as we obviously are.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Lay, Toni
                                        Wouldn t Anime go in the SF/F-Recreation category? Furry would seem to go in SF or Fantasy-Orginal. LARP I would also put in that category if it s not a
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                          Wouldn't Anime go in the SF/F-Recreation category? Furry would seem to go
                                          in SF or Fantasy-Orginal. LARP I would also put in that category if it's
                                          not a medival historical outfit. Art-to-Wear sounds like Fashion Folio to
                                          me.

                                          Toni

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Ricky & Karen Dick [mailto:castleb@...]
                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:29 PM
                                          To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [ICG-D] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners


                                          But then how much else should we be adding, too, to include other groups?

                                          Should it be the SF/Fantasy/Anime/Furry/LARP/Art-to-Wear...?

                                          There has to be an easier way.

                                          --Karen
                                        • Ricky & Karen Dick
                                          Sounds like we re back to needing more explanatory text to explain the types of costumes that would enter the SF&F masquerade vs. lengthening the name of the
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                            Sounds like we're back to needing more explanatory text to explain the
                                            types of costumes that would enter the SF&F masquerade vs. lengthening the
                                            name of the masquerade.

                                            --Karen

                                            At 12:38 PM 7/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
                                            >Wouldn't Anime go in the SF/F-Recreation category? Furry would seem to go
                                            >in SF or Fantasy-Orginal. LARP I would also put in that category if it's
                                            >not a medival historical outfit. Art-to-Wear sounds like Fashion Folio to
                                            >me.
                                            >
                                            >Toni
                                            >
                                            >-----Original Message-----
                                            >From: Ricky & Karen Dick [mailto:castleb@...]
                                            >Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:29 PM
                                            >To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
                                            >Subject: RE: [ICG-D] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >But then how much else should we be adding, too, to include other groups?
                                            >
                                            >Should it be the SF/Fantasy/Anime/Furry/LARP/Art-to-Wear...?
                                            >
                                            >There has to be an easier way.
                                            >
                                            >--Karen
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Lady Kareena Sartek
                                            Yes, very nicely done. I remember you in the Star Blazers group, Karen. :) Honestly, there s all body types in Anime--just seems more of the skinny types, or
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                              Yes, very nicely done. I remember you in the Star Blazers group,
                                              Karen. :)
                                              Honestly, there's all body types in Anime--just seems more of the
                                              skinny types, or lately the kungfu anime and schoolgirl anime, which
                                              is more popular among the younger anime fans (like my son, though he
                                              likes the older stuff, thanks to his father and me).
                                              Since i am now losing inches and weight (22 1/2 inches so far in 4
                                              months) by exercing at Curves maybe when we go to that anime con in
                                              Norfolk, Virginia in Novmber I'll be able to make a nice costume to
                                              wear there. Bill and Chris will be working it as a freidn of ours is
                                              one of the big upper-ups, but I will go to enjoy it.
                                              Pam







                                              > WOW! Some really nicely done stuff there. Thanks for the links.
                                              >
                                              > I did anime stuff in the 80's, and would *still* be doing it if I
                                              were
                                              > still as thin as I was then.
                                              >
                                              > We really need to court these kids for Costume-Con.
                                              >
                                              > --Karen
                                              >
                                              > At 08:57 PM 7/5/2004 -0700, you wrote:
                                              > >I didn't go to this, but I looked at the winners just out of
                                              curiousity, and
                                              > >because it's one of the bigger anime masquerades. I wish the
                                              pictures were
                                              > >better, as the Rose of Versailles group looks really REALLY
                                              neat..but I
                                              > >figured many of us might like some of the work that went into these
                                              > >costumes.
                                              >
                                              > >Dany
                                              > >-already has some of the material in fact..
                                            • Lady Kareena Sartek
                                              Many in the 501st and Rebel Legion didn t know about Costumecon until I posted on their boards about last year s and the year before one. A lot of newer
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                                Many in the 501st and Rebel Legion didn't know about Costumecon until
                                                I posted on their boards about last year's and the year before one. A
                                                lot of newer costumers do not know about it. I also run into those
                                                types who think their stormtrooper costume or whatever is the end be
                                                all, and I tell, them go to Costumecon, and you may find out yours
                                                isn't and you can learn about doing all sorts of costumes. Okay, I'm
                                                an instigator. LOL But i got some of them to go and now they're doing
                                                other costumes. just wished i could ahve gone, but the money, you
                                                know the money. And we go to two big cons here, Shore Leave and
                                                Dragoncon as it is. been working on hubby's Aragorn ROTK battle
                                                costume for Dragoncon and couple others, just getting money to go to
                                                all the cons I used to when younger.
                                                Pam




                                                > I got to meet the fellow who runs CosplayLab.com and his family
                                                here a week
                                                > ago. They were a really sweet family of costumer/cosplayers, and
                                                really into
                                                > the idea of it as an art form. I told him about CostumeCon, and he
                                                seems
                                                > interested in it, so who knows, we might actually see him and his
                                                family
                                                > show up to one. Even if they don't participate in the Masquerades,
                                                it would
                                                > make me really happy if they were able to come.
                                                >
                                                > Something I've noticed is that those I've spoken to, in the anime
                                                community
                                                > as well as in other venues I've subscribed myself to, have no idea
                                                > CostumeCon exists. It surprises me that so few really good
                                                costumers are
                                                > unaware of it, especially those who have been doing things like
                                                Masquerades
                                                > for a while.
                                                >
                                                > I'm sure some of them would really appreciate the detailed eye that
                                                > CostumeCon put into judging entries. I've already noticed a few
                                                people
                                                > unhappy with AX's methods of judging workmanship posting to the
                                                Cosplay.com
                                                > forum boards. Kind of sad, really. There was one reference to
                                                someone I am
                                                > acquainted with (and met briefly at BayCon) whose children made
                                                most of
                                                > their costumes themselves, and were almost completely overlooked by
                                                the
                                                > workmanship judges. Now, if I recall correctly, these kids were not
                                                even
                                                > teenagers (I know at least one is under 13), and they're putting
                                                together
                                                > their own stuff!
                                                >
                                                > That, in and of itself, impresses me.
                                                >
                                                > I'm babbling. I have my own Masquerade entry that the clock is
                                                ticking on
                                                > *ee!*
                                                >
                                                > Dany
                                                > -might find herself recruiting at ComicCon..
                                              • Andrew Trembley
                                                ... So, being an anime junkie... I don t think renaming the masquerades is the answer. Fantasy, sf and horror anime designs would easily fit within the charter
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                                  Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
                                                  > Would it make more sense to rename the SciFi/Fantasy, or lump Anime on the
                                                  > end, or ? Any ideas on wording? Andy?

                                                  So, being an anime junkie...

                                                  I don't think renaming the masquerades is the answer.

                                                  Fantasy, sf and horror anime designs would easily fit within the charter
                                                  of the F&SF masquerade.

                                                  Historical anime designs would easily fit within the interpretation
                                                  category of the historical masquerade.

                                                  "Slice-of-life" series... well, most still have some fantastic elements,
                                                  so they might fit into F&SF, but some don't. Kimagure Orange Road, for
                                                  example, features a main character with psychokinetic powers.

                                                  I think the point that anime and manga are media, not genres, is very
                                                  important. CC masquerades accept recreation costumes from any media, as
                                                  long as the genre is appropriate. That's what we need to say to people.

                                                  andy
                                                • Carole Parker
                                                  ... And furry cons, too. Lots of twentysomethings at Further Confusion in San Jose in January. Until later-- Carole
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jul 6, 2004
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                                                    On Monday, July 5, 2004, at 10:26 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

                                                    > It is obvious to me that general S/F conventions are not the masquerade
                                                    > "feeder" system that they once were, and if we are asking ourselves
                                                    > where
                                                    > all the teens and twentysomethings went, we need look no further than
                                                    > these
                                                    > anime cons.

                                                    And furry cons, too. Lots of twentysomethings at Further Confusion in
                                                    San Jose in January.

                                                    Until later--

                                                    Carole
                                                  • Pierre & Sandy Pettinger
                                                    ... In general, I d say most anime fits quite neatly into SF/Fantasy. Anime that has no fantastic elements in it might be a bit more problematic, unless it s
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                                      At 01:02 AM 7/6/2004, you wrote:
                                                      > > If there's anything you can do to recruit folks at the
                                                      > > conventions you attend, it would be time well spent. They
                                                      > > probably haven't heard of Costume-Con because it hasn't been
                                                      > > east of the Mississippi in so long, and because it doesn't
                                                      > > have "anime" tagged onto it as a keyword.
                                                      >
                                                      >Speaking of name-tagging..
                                                      >
                                                      >I don't know if this is something that can be addressed now, but it's
                                                      >something I've come across as well when talking about CC to the anime
                                                      >types...
                                                      >
                                                      >When I tell them that there are two Masquerades..the Historical and the
                                                      >SciFi/Fantasy...I get the feeling sometimes that they aren't certain if an
                                                      >anime costume can be brought in. We had our Lulu last year, of course, and
                                                      >I've mentioned that (and I'm sure there might have been others I'm not
                                                      >remembering), but I think they see the label "SciFi/Fantasy" as implying
                                                      >that anime doesn't count. Afterall, there are those who do anime
                                                      >conventions that firmly believe that non-anime/non-Japanese culture costumes
                                                      >shouldn't be there, they might think that anime isn't considered because of
                                                      >the "SciFi/Fantasy" label.
                                                      >
                                                      >I've noticed that the term "Non-Historical" seems to catch their attention a
                                                      >bit more. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue name-schematics or
                                                      >anything, but it might be something to think about down the road that might
                                                      >make it sound as inclusive as we obviously are.
                                                      >
                                                      >Ideas? Comments? Stick figures?


                                                      In general, I'd say most anime fits quite neatly into SF/Fantasy. Anime
                                                      that has no fantastic elements in it might be a bit more problematic,
                                                      unless it's from an old enough source to claim status in the Historic
                                                      masquerade. However, I think the majority of anime has some type of
                                                      fantastic element to it.

                                                      Pierre


                                                      >Dany
                                                      >-blablabla...

                                                      "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                                                      Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                                                      Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                                                      Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                                                      Achemdro'hm
                                                      "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                                                      -- C.Y. 4971

                                                      Andromeda
                                                    • Scott & JoAnn Abbott
                                                      I can see the confusion the anime cosplayers might have; in one cosplay you might have mecha, which are easily recognizable as Sci-fi outfits, but you will
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                                        I can see the confusion the anime cosplayers might have; in one cosplay you might have mecha, which are easily recognizable as Sci-fi outfits, but you will also have a pack of Adult men dressed in perfect Sailor Moon Fuku's ( late 20th century sailor suit school outfits), a group of full samuri, with an oni (demon) as part of the group, a futuristic bounty hunter from another series...the list goes on. I think what is confusing to these folks is that everyone goes on stage at Anime cons as cosplayers, without any big set-in-stone divisions. Maybe it is having seperate categories that is scaring them off?


                                                        JoAnn in VA
                                                        Mother of that wierd 6foot2" 17 year old boy who went trick or treating 2 years ago as Blossom, while an equally tall friend went as Buttercup...

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Scott & JoAnn Abbott
                                                        (ggrrrooooaaannn....) Now I have to face that basement again to find everything so I can remember what goes to what and from when...I was hoping to avoid doing
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                                          (ggrrrooooaaannn....)


                                                          Now I have to face that basement again to find everything so I can remember
                                                          what goes to what and from when...I was hoping to avoid doing so for another
                                                          month.....


                                                          JoAnn :o)
                                                          Gimme a week, I'll see what I have excavated by then



                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: "Elaine Mami" <ecmami@...>
                                                          To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:30 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Noreason 4 Costume Display


                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > It would be really great to have the info in advance, so I can make signs.
                                                          > I'm not sure yet, but I think I would like the others, as well. I do like
                                                          > the idea of a not-totally-fantasy display, even at an SF/F con. I'll let
                                                          > you know as soon as I have a better idea of the total number of pieces I'm
                                                          > getting. Please plan on bringing them unless I tell you not to.
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks so much again!
                                                          >
                                                          > Elaine
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Will you need the historical info on it before the con, or should I just
                                                          > >type it up for a display card and bring it along? It is a very upper
                                                          class
                                                          > >dress; I also have the "Mobile Swiss army tent", a lower/middle class red
                                                          > >and white I made over 25 years ago and which I still wear to Pennsic- ok,
                                                          > >so the bodice has been let out a few times since I was 20...:o) It has a
                                                          > >matching mens Landesknect I made for my husband a few years back, I can
                                                          > >haul them along as well. I even made matching outfits for the kids (CC6
                                                          I
                                                          > >think, the photos of them in the outfts are on line somewhere) I think
                                                          > >their outfits have been passed along to others though. Especially since
                                                          > >they are now 6'3" and 5'6"...
                                                          > >
                                                          > >JoAnn in VA
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > JoAnn,
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I would love it! I will also want a brief description, including any
                                                          > >awards
                                                          > > it got, so I can make signs. We have a fair amount of
                                                          > >dummies/mannequins,
                                                          > > but can always use more. Depends on how many costumes we get, of
                                                          > >course.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Elaine
                                                          >
                                                          > _________________________________________________________________
                                                          > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
                                                          > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                        • Andrew T Trembley
                                                          ... Nice theory, but not true. The really big anime cons often have multiple masquerades. It s probably their choice of break-down that creates the confusion.
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                                            On Jul 7, 2004, at 3:29 PM, Scott & JoAnn Abbott wrote:
                                                            > I can see the confusion the anime cosplayers might have; in one
                                                            > cosplay you might have mecha, which are easily recognizable as Sci-fi
                                                            > outfits, but you will also have a pack of Adult men dressed in
                                                            > perfect Sailor Moon Fuku's ( late 20th century sailor suit school
                                                            > outfits), a group of full samuri, with an oni (demon) as part of the
                                                            > group, a futuristic bounty hunter from another series...the list goes
                                                            > on. I think what is confusing to these folks is that everyone goes on
                                                            > stage at Anime cons as cosplayers, without any big set-in-stone
                                                            > divisions. Maybe it is having seperate categories that is scaring
                                                            > them off?

                                                            Nice theory, but not true.

                                                            The really big anime cons often have multiple masquerades. It's
                                                            probably their choice of break-down that creates the confusion.

                                                            AX has multiple masquerades. In the past they've had the main
                                                            masquerade (anime recreations, registration cap), the mini-masquerade
                                                            (shorter time limits, no cap on entries) and the j-pop masquerade
                                                            (j-pop and j-rock recreations). Last year featured the main masquerade
                                                            (anime and video game recreations), the chibi-masquerade (longer time
                                                            limits, no judging), and the pop-shock masquerade (j-pop, j-rock and
                                                            other Japanese cultural phenom recreations).

                                                            So note, they break down on source media and/or venue style, rather
                                                            than genre.

                                                            Actually, it's been interesting looking back at AX. They refer to the
                                                            contests as Masquerades (then again, they predate the introduction of
                                                            "cosplay" to American anime fandom). Cosplay refers to the whole
                                                            phenomenon, and is also used in it's Japanese sense: free-form
                                                            role-playing where folks costumed in recreations from a particular
                                                            series or milieu gather together in a room at a scheduled time.
                                                            http://pub130.ezboard.com/fanimeexpofrm48.showMessage?topicID=199.topic

                                                            --
                                                            andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen - http://www.bovil.com/
                                                            San Jose, CA - '72 R75/5 '86 R100 (mine) - '92 K75sa '03 R1150R
                                                            (Kevin's)
                                                            ...remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio
                                                          • Byron Connell
                                                            That s an important distinction and an excellent point. Byron ... From: Andrew Trembley To:
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jul 7, 2004
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                                                              That's an important distinction and an excellent point.

                                                              Byron

                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              From: Andrew Trembley<mailto:attrembl@...>
                                                              To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:09 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners

                                                              I don't think renaming the masquerades is the answer.

                                                              I think the point that anime and manga are media, not genres, is very
                                                              important. CC masquerades accept recreation costumes from any media, as
                                                              long as the genre is appropriate. That's what we need to say to people.

                                                              andy

                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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