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Re: learning to sew

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  • Tony & Suford Lewis
    The story of the monkey that piled the boxes to get the banana is from an animal behaviorism text by a famous experimenter (Wolfgang Kohler, I believe) who
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 1 7:57 AM
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      The story of the monkey that piled the boxes to get the banana is from an
      animal behaviorism text by a famous experimenter (Wolfgang Kohler, I
      believe) who had a lab in Africa. He had some rooms he arranged thus: he
      suspended a banana from the ceiling and put a bunch of boxes on the floor.
      Usually the monkey would pile boxes and swarm up them until the pile was
      high enough and stabile long enough to grab the banana. The experimenter
      would look in the keyhole to observe the results. One monkey was not
      interested in the banana and all the experimenter saw looking in was the eye
      of the monkey looking back out at him.

      This was back when animal experimenters had a sense of humor, respect for
      their subjects, and recorded what really happened.

      On the one hand, we have real trial and error with no real analysis in the
      box piling methodology. On the other we have the march to the different
      drummer of the ape with the higher priorities. I expect Alixandra's trial
      and error had a lot more analysis to it. On the other hand, it certainly
      sounds like her high school had no interest at all in turning out people who
      could think - none of that "learn how to learn" stuff that might give the
      lower classes ideas above their station!

      On the third hand, I went to high school in the 50's (in California) and by
      george it was boys take shop and girls take home ec. the rest of the course
      options were chosen by whoever filled out the form that came home but it had
      to be signed by a parent. I remember that the year book and the school
      newspaper were done by one particular senior English course, chosen by
      favoritism best I could tell. We also had band and chorus though I don't
      know how they interacted with the rest of the courses.

      It sure was a mind-numbing time. If your parents weren't supporting you
      against the tide of anti-intellectualism you were screwed. Actually, you
      were pretty well ostracised if you had any original thoughts in your head
      anyway. God I'm glad it's not like that anymore! It's still pretty bad in
      that popular culture is still pretty dumb, but at least you can study if you
      want to and though I don't know whether the sewing machines and shop
      machines are much better than they were (traditionally they were at least 10
      years out of date and badly maintained), at least you can read the books if
      you want to.

      We didn't want to be in the principal's office every week defending our
      daughter against philistines so we put her in private schools all the way.
      There's a strategy that would have been hard to do if we had had more than
      one! BTW - she graduated from college this June!

      Maybe I was too cynical... Does anybody have kids in the public schools
      these days to say what they are currently doing?

      Onward and Upward in costuming and in everything else, too!

      - Suford


      > From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
      > Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: 13 Jun 2001 13:44:11 -0000
      > To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [ICG-D] Digest Number 223
      >
      > Message: 22
      > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 05:10:26
      > From: "Alix Jordan" <eddana@...>
      > Subject: Re: learning to sew
      >
      > Dear Randall:
      >
      >> (See "Escape from the Planet of the
      >> Apes.")
      >>
      > I'd really rather not.
      >
      > Peace
      > Alixandra
      > eddana@...
      > _________________________________________________________________________
    • randwhit@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/1/01 7:54:02 AM US Mountain Standard Time, ... This experiment is famous and therefore much parodied in popular fiction. Besides the
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 1 9:33 AM
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        In a message dated 7/1/01 7:54:02 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
        suford@... writes:


        The story of the monkey that piled the boxes to get the banana is from  an
        animal behaviorism text by a famous experimenter (Wolfgang Kohler, I
        believe) who had a lab in Africa.  He had some rooms he arranged thus:  he
        suspended a banana from the ceiling and put a bunch of boxes on the floor.
        Usually the monkey would pile boxes and swarm up them until the pile was
        high enough and stabile long enough to grab the banana.  The experimenter
        would look in the keyhole to observe the results.  One monkey was not
        interested in the banana and all the experimenter saw looking in was the eye
        of the monkey looking back out at him.


        This experiment is famous and therefore much parodied in popular fiction.
        Besides the Planet of the Apes incident I originally mentioned (in which
        chimp scientist Zira builds the tower, then announces in flawless English
        that she loathes bananas), I remember a Warner Brothers cartoon from the
        1950's.

        In this gag, the chimp builds the block tower to reach the banana, then whips
        out a saw and cuts through the ceiling of the cage to bring down a fridge
        loaded with pies and other treats.

        Randall
      • lisa58@juno.com
        Dear Suford-- I have two children, now teens, who have been through public school all the way. Things are a great deal different from when I attended
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 1 3:58 PM
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          Dear Suford--

          I have two children, now teens, who have been through public school all
          the way. Things are a great deal different from when I attended
          elementary and jr. high (now called "middle School"). They start right
          from kindergarten giving homework, even if it's just remembering to bring
          things home and get them signed, or make a special drawing. And here,
          they give out spiral calendar notebooks and the kids learn to write down
          their assignments from the start. They have to get the calendar books
          initialled by parents after the work is done at home. Great idea! Kids
          learn to remember and do their homework.

          They don't seem to have shop and home ec, from what I can gather. My son
          just finished his freshman year and took photography as an elective.
          He'll be taking photography 2 next year. My daughter takes Chorus. They
          also have a year-long elective which includes art, media and creative
          writing. My son took a week-long spring break sewing class at G-Street a
          few years ago. He made shorts and a pillow and a backpack. HE was the
          only boy but seemed to like it okay. He's not particularly interested in
          sewing now; being 15 he's into sleeping late with his free time.

          My daughter never seemed to care about sewing, but she draws and paints
          wonderfully. They really don't seem to pigeonhole kids the way they used
          to in school. And there are lots more weekend and summer
          alternatives--Celia takes a Saturday art course with real models ever
          fall (she's 13 now), and also takes an art class alongside her dad.

          Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
          ________________________________________________________________
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        • Tony & Suford Lewis
          Lisa - Wow! I can t tell you how glad I am to hear this! Your kids experience sounds ideal. Though I have wandered a bit off-topic, I think I am still
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 2 2:59 PM
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            Lisa -

            Wow! I can't tell you how glad I am to hear this! Your kids experience
            sounds ideal. Though I have wandered a bit off-topic, I think I am still
            within hailing distance of "Learning to Sew". I had to express my delight
            that maybe there is hope for future generations. I have seen things getting
            better in a number of ways - especially the _real_ acceptance of
            differences. And that is where the creativity comes from that is our life
            blood in costuming and where the sense of wonder comes from that unites
            fandom - well, for small values of "unite" considering that fandom is more
            "untied" than "united". (Have "fnu"!)

            Onward & Upward!

            - Suford


            > From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
            > Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: 2 Jul 2001 07:59:46 -0000
            > To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [ICG-D] Digest Number 242
            >
            > Message: 4
            > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:58:50 -0400
            > From: lisa58@...
            > Subject: Re: Re: learning to sew
            >
            > Dear Suford--
            >
            > I have two children, now teens, who have been through public school all
            > the way. Things are a great deal different from when I attended
            > elementary and jr. high (now called "middle School"). They start right
            > from kindergarten giving homework, even if it's just remembering to bring
            > things home and get them signed, or make a special drawing. And here,
            > they give out spiral calendar notebooks and the kids learn to write down
            > their assignments from the start. They have to get the calendar books
            > initialled by parents after the work is done at home. Great idea! Kids
            > learn to remember and do their homework.
          • lisa58@juno.com
            RE: Suford s comments (i.e. fandom is untied ): The important thing to remember always, and I remind my son of this every single time we compete together, is
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 5 8:28 AM
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              RE: Suford's comments (i.e. fandom is "untied"):

              The important thing to remember always, and I remind my son of this every
              single time we compete together, is that we are having fun.

              Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
              ________________________________________________________________
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              Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
              Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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