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Origins of Clan Johnston - Danish Vikings>Northumberland>Perth, Scotland> Annandale, Scotland

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  • texasfalconer@att.net
    Last November I started to work with Bill Howard and the Y-DNA matrix which produces a phylogenetic tree (as I call it) in an effort to better understand the
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 1, 2014
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      Last November I started to work with Bill Howard and the Y-DNA matrix which produces a phylogenetic tree (as I call it) in an effort to better understand the origins of Clan Johnston/e in Scotland and the complex relationships of the various lines descended from John Johnstoun.

      To make a long story short, I've posted our Johnstoun Phylogenetic Tree in our Files section for all to see.  The matrix is limited now to the first 37 markers, and there are some shortcomings.  Hopefully Bill and his buddy will be able to improve it to 67 and then 111 makers :-)

      Comments are appreciated.

      Cliff. Johnston 

    • jwray3
      Do you have a link you can share of where your work has been uploaded?
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 1, 2014
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        Do you have a link you can share of where your work has been uploaded?
      • Cliff. Johnston
        No.  I ve got our Y-DNA Spreadsheet posted in the I-M223 Files section along with the Phylogenetic Tree.  Most all of what we do is on our private Yahoo
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 1, 2014
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          No.  I've got our Y-DNA Spreadsheet posted in the I-M223 Files section along with the Phylogenetic Tree. 

          Most all of what we do is on our private Yahoo group:


          I also have a copy of Dr. Johnston's family chart which is on file with the Maryland Historical Society in a library someplace.  I'd have to double check on this for the exact location.  His grandson, Christopher Johnston VI, told me that all of his grandfather's research work is in that library, but I do not think that anyone has ever made use of it.  Part of his chart is posted on our private Yahoo group.

          There has been a lot of "posturing" for the past 200 years as to the origins of the Johnstons in Scotland.  The current chief comes from the distaff side as the male line of ancient Johnston chiefs is supposed to have died out according to them.  When I started my research looking into this some 9 years ago it became apparent that mathematically at least some male lines of the kin/cousins of the main Johnston male line should be alive and well today.  I believe that we have proven this - just not made a published account of it as we are still gathering data and information.

          The current clan chief's family supports the theory that a knight by the name of Jeanville came over with William of Normandy in 1066 AD and from there went up to Scotland.  Jean Marie Johnston in Bordeaux, France, of the Johnston wine family has spent considerable time trying to find a connection between the Jeanville line and the Johnston line.  He even enlisted noted genealogists in France to help him.  They were unable to make any connection.  Likewise, no genealogists have been able to prove this theory in the British Isles.

          2 late, notable, Johnston genealogists, Landon Johnson, M.D. (U.S.A.) and Robert Shannon (Scotland), both came to the conclusion after decades of research that our family line went back to John Johnstoun, son of Uhtred, son of the Earl of Northumbria.

          We do need to be realistic about this.  Going back that far in time is an almost impossible task;  however, when I saw the phylogenetic tree I became more and more convinced that it is a very viable theory and very likely possible.

          There are some issues with using only 37 markers in the phylogenetic matrix.  The main one is that recent mutations (the last 100 years) tend to start new lines rather than continue older lines as they should, and we have a prime example of that with the grandson of Christopher Johnston VI who is 2 recent mutations removed from Christopher VI, but the phylogenetic tree has him starting a new line before his grandfather.

          Good hunting,

          Cliff.


          From: "redsnapa@..." <redsnapa@...>
          To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:29 PM
          Subject: [I-M223] Re: Origins of Clan Johnston - Danish Vikings>Northumberland>Perth, Scotland> Annandale, Scotland
           
          Do you have a link you can share of where your work has been uploaded?
        • Wayne Roberts
          Great thanks Cliff. The important thing to note with your paternal line given that there are many Johnson, Johnston, Johnstone etc names around and others with
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 1, 2014
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            Great thanks Cliff.
             
            The important thing to note with your paternal line given that there are many Johnson, Johnston, Johnstone etc names around and others with in Haplogroup I-M223, is the defining SNPs for this line are L1290 and L1317 and I think the fact a variant name from Sweden was also L1290+.
             
            Wayne
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 12:21 PM
            Subject: Re: [I-M223] Re: Origins of Clan Johnston - Danish Vikings>Northumberland>Perth, Scotland> Annandale, Scotland

             

            No.  I've got our Y-DNA Spreadsheet posted in the I-M223 Files section along with the Phylogenetic Tree. 

            Most all of what we do is on our private Yahoo group:


            I also have a copy of Dr. Johnston's family chart which is on file with the Maryland Historical Society in a library someplace.  I'd have to double check on this for the exact location.  His grandson, Christopher Johnston VI, told me that all of his grandfather's research work is in that library, but I do not think that anyone has ever made use of it.  Part of his chart is posted on our private Yahoo group.

            There has been a lot of "posturing" for the past 200 years as to the origins of the Johnstons in Scotland.  The current chief comes from the distaff side as the male line of ancient Johnston chiefs is supposed to have died out according to them.  When I started my research looking into this some 9 years ago it became apparent that mathematically at least some male lines of the kin/cousins of the main Johnston male line should be alive and well today.  I believe that we have proven this - just not made a published account of it as we are still gathering data and information.

            The current clan chief's family supports the theory that a knight by the name of Jeanville came over with William of Normandy in 1066 AD and from there went up to Scotland.  Jean Marie Johnston in Bordeaux, France, of the Johnston wine family has spent considerable time trying to find a connection between the Jeanville line and the Johnston line.  He even enlisted noted genealogists in France to help him.  They were unable to make any connection.  Likewise, no genealogists have been able to prove this theory in the British Isles.

            2 late, notable, Johnston genealogists, Landon Johnson, M.D. (U.S.A.) and Robert Shannon (Scotland), both came to the conclusion after decades of research that our family line went back to John Johnstoun, son of Uhtred, son of the Earl of Northumbria.

            We do need to be realistic about this.  Going back that far in time is an almost impossible task;  however, when I saw the phylogenetic tree I became more and more convinced that it is a very viable theory and very likely possible.

            There are some issues with using only 37 markers in the phylogenetic matrix.  The main one is that recent mutations (the last 100 years) tend to start new lines rather than continue older lines as they should, and we have a prime example of that with the grandson of Christopher Johnston VI who is 2 recent mutations removed from Christopher VI, but the phylogenetic tree has him starting a new line before his grandfather.

            Good hunting,

            Cliff.


            From: "redsnapa@..." <redsnapa@...>
            To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:29 PM
            Subject: [I-M223] Re: Origins of Clan Johnston - Danish Vikings>Northumberland>Perth, Scotland> Annandale, Scotland
             
            Do you have a link you can share of where your work has been uploaded?

          • Cliff. Johnston
            Wayne, There are several origins of the surname Johnson.  It is said that there were at least 5 separate origins of Johnston in Scotland; however, I ve been
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 2, 2014
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              Wayne,

              There are several origins of the surname Johnson.  It is said that there were at least 5 separate origins of Johnston in Scotland; however, I've been able to verify that at least 3 are tied into John Johnstoun of St. Johnstoune.  There is only one source for "Johnstone" that I am aware of, and that happened in 1726 when the Chief of Clan Johnston and his kin added the final "e" to avoid confusion with all of the families that had adopted "Johnston" as their surname.  That's a nice way of saying that he was trying to distance his family from the con-artists who were trading on his family name recognition in various businesses, legal or otherwise ;-)  Needless to say, that did not work as some families with no blood ties almost immediately added the final "e".  Having said all of this I have found many instances of all 3 surnames having been "adopted" by Celtic families. 

              About 3 months ago I put a "push" for Johns(t)on/es on several forums to have their Y-DNA tested.  In the past month we've had perhaps a dozen or so Y-DNA returns as a result of my encouragement.  Most were "adopted" surnames.  Just this past month I found the first instance of a proscribed MacGregor line which took the surname Johnson - that was one wild and wooly moment when I informed the "Johnson" of his past.  He was overjoyed, to say the least, and I felt very happy for him as he had been hitting the proverbial brickwall for some 9 years.

              I am thinking that it may be interesting to take 2 or 3 Johns(t)on/es from each of the various I haplogroups and put them in the matrix to see just where in time and how they are all connected through the centuries...

              The Swedish fellow doesn't really surprise me too much as many of the Johnstons left Scotland for Danzig of the Hanseatic League in the early 1600s.  Most were merchants.  We've accounted for Johnstons in modern-day Poland and Germany.  The German line is Von Johnston.  That was quite a surprise as I found Johnstons and Von Johnstons, kin, fighting each other in both World Wars...mixed feelings there...  In addition, I've found a fair number on the Islands of Scotland, specifically the Orkneys and the Shetlands.  I've tried to find someone there to take a Y-DNA test, but my efforts have been unsuccessful to date.

              Cliff.

               
              From: Wayne Roberts <wayne_r_roberts@...>
              To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 10:34 PM
              Subject: Re: [I-M223] Re: Origins of Clan Johnston - Danish Vikings>Northumberland>Perth, Scotland> Annandale, Scotland
               
              
              Great thanks Cliff.
               
              The important thing to note with your paternal line given that there are many Johnson, Johnston, Johnstone etc names around and others with in Haplogroup I-M223, is the defining SNPs for this line are L1290 and L1317 and I think the fact a variant name from Sweden was also L1290+.
               
              Wayne
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 12:21 PM
              Subject: Re: [I-M223] Re: Origins of Clan Johnston - Danish Vikings>Northumberland>Perth, Scotland> Annandale, Scotland

               
              No.  I've got our Y-DNA Spreadsheet posted in the I-M223 Files section along with the Phylogenetic Tree. 

              Most all of what we do is on our private Yahoo group:


              I also have a copy of Dr. Johnston's family chart which is on file with the Maryland Historical Society in a library someplace.  I'd have to double check on this for the exact location.  His grandson, Christopher Johnston VI, told me that all of his grandfather's research work is in that library, but I do not think that anyone has ever made use of it.  Part of his chart is posted on our private Yahoo group.

              There has been a lot of "posturing" for the past 200 years as to the origins of the Johnstons in Scotland.  The current chief comes from the distaff side as the male line of ancient Johnston chiefs is supposed to have died out according to them.  When I started my research looking into this some 9 years ago it became apparent that mathematically at least some male lines of the kin/cousins of the main Johnston male line should be alive and well today.  I believe that we have proven this - just not made a published account of it as we are still gathering data and information.

              The current clan chief's family supports the theory that a knight by the name of Jeanville came over with William of Normandy in 1066 AD and from there went up to Scotland.  Jean Marie Johnston in Bordeaux, France, of the Johnston wine family has spent considerable time trying to find a connection between the Jeanville line and the Johnston line.  He even enlisted noted genealogists in France to help him.  They were unable to make any connection.  Likewise, no genealogists have been able to prove this theory in the British Isles.

              2 late, notable, Johnston genealogists, Landon Johnson, M.D. (U.S.A.) and Robert Shannon (Scotland), both came to the conclusion after decades of research that our family line went back to John Johnstoun, son of Uhtred, son of the Earl of Northumbria.

              We do need to be realistic about this.  Going back that far in time is an almost impossible task;  however, when I saw the phylogenetic tree I became more and more convinced that it is a very viable theory and very likely possible.

              There are some issues with using only 37 markers in the phylogenetic matrix.  The main one is that recent mutations (the last 100 years) tend to start new lines rather than continue older lines as they should, and we have a prime example of that with the grandson of Christopher Johnston VI who is 2 recent mutations removed from Christopher VI, but the phylogenetic tree has him starting a new line before his grandfather.

              Good hunting,

              Cliff.


              From: "redsnapa@..." <redsnapa@...>
              To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:29 PM
              Subject: [I-M223] Re: Origins of Clan Johnston - Danish Vikings>Northumberland>Perth, Scotland> Annandale, Scotland
               
              Do you have a link you can share of where your work has been uploaded?
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