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Chromo2 M223

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  • qumavren
    Kenneth Nordtvedt has published SNPs tree of new markers from Chromo2 (britainsdna.com). Look at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 2, 2014
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      Kenneth Nordtvedt has published SNPs tree of new markers from Chromo2 (britainsdna.com). Look at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/ and open file: Chromo2M223.pptx  

      Many new SNPs belong to group of L1228, Roots and somebody of probably Cont-2c or different man of Cont-2 (McMillan group?).
      Markers S1984=PF810 create a new branch Cont-2 (Johnston clan,  Arnold group or a new?)
      CTS6433 group has a few new markers into his branches.
      Interesting that Isles group does not have many markers.
      At present we can't see any new markers in Cont-3.

      Kit number consist of three digits, for example: 192
      #269 belongs to two branches: S5025 and CTS1977 but probably it is some mistake.

      Regards,
      Tom
    • Wayne Roberts
      Thanks Tom. I advised Kenneth of the duplicate #269 and he has corrected it on his Chromo2M233 tree. S5025 is a branch of CTS1977 so it maybe another name for
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 2, 2014
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        Thanks Tom.
         
        I advised Kenneth of the duplicate #269 and he has corrected it on his Chromo2M233 tree. S5025 is a branch of CTS1977 so it maybe another name for CTS1858 or L1201 or P95 or a new SNP. The problem we all have is that BritainsDNA/ScotlandsDNA have not released the Y chromosome positions of their S series of SNPs.
         
        Some branches can be worked out through comparison with what we know from Geno 2.0 and FTDNA testing. Other branch lines like Isles L126 may not show a lot of new SNPs because samples were not tested as thoroughly as some other samples such as the L1228 sample.
         
        If anyone from the I-M223 Project has ordered or tested Chromo2, please let me/us know. So far we are only aware of Hobbs in Roots 1, Hepworth in Cont2a and Cochran in Isles Scots. All of those other results (with Ken's numbering) were provided anonymously so there are no names to cross reference with Project members and their STR markers. Chromo2 does not test for STR markers.
         
        Wayne 
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 6:21 AM
        Subject: [I-M223] Chromo2 M223

         

        Kenneth Nordtvedt has published SNPs tree of new markers from Chromo2 (britainsdna.com). Look at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/ and open file: Chromo2M223.pptx  

        Many new SNPs belong to group of L1228, Roots and somebody of probably Cont-2c or different man of Cont-2 (McMillan group?).
        Markers S1984=PF810 create a new branch Cont-2 (Johnston clan,  Arnold group or a new?)
        CTS6433 group has a few new markers into his branches.
        Interesting that Isles group does not have many markers.
        At present we can't see any new markers in Cont-3.

        Kit number consist of three digits, for example: 192
        #269 belongs to two branches: S5025 and CTS1977 but probably it is some mistake.

        Regards,
        Tom

      • Wayne Roberts
        Okay, I had a look at the raw data for the three I have. P95 and L1201 are tested by Chromo2 but CTS1858 is not. L623 and L147 are not tested. CTS7010, L1272
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 2, 2014
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          Okay, I had a look at the raw data for the three I have.
           
          P95 and L1201 are tested by Chromo2 but CTS1858 is not.
           
          L623 and L147 are not tested.
           
          CTS7010, L1272 and P195 are tested but F3195, PF5268, PF6654, Z78, Z171, Z185, Z180, Z166, Z187 and Z79 are not.
           
          L1228 is tested but L1227 and Z524 are not.
           
          L1229, L812, PF1335 are not tested. L1230, L319 and P53 are tested as well as some in the Z2054-Z2102 series.
           
          All Cont3 SNPs are tested except for L701.
           
          Isles SNPs are tested including PAGES00052 but PF5084 and PF1583 found with Geno 2.0 are not tested for with Chromo2.
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:17 AM
          Subject: Re: [I-M223] Chromo2 M223

           

          

          Thanks Tom.
           
          I advised Kenneth of the duplicate #269 and he has corrected it on his Chromo2M233 tree. S5025 is a branch of CTS1977 so it maybe another name for CTS1858 or L1201 or P95 or a new SNP. The problem we all have is that BritainsDNA/ScotlandsDNA have not released the Y chromosome positions of their S series of SNPs.
           
          Some branches can be worked out through comparison with what we know from Geno 2.0 and FTDNA testing. Other branch lines like Isles L126 may not show a lot of new SNPs because samples were not tested as thoroughly as some other samples such as the L1228 sample.
           
          If anyone from the I-M223 Project has ordered or tested Chromo2, please let me/us know. So far we are only aware of Hobbs in Roots 1, Hepworth in Cont2a and Cochran in Isles Scots. All of those other results (with Ken's numbering) were provided anonymously so there are no names to cross reference with Project members and their STR markers. Chromo2 does not test for STR markers.
           
          Wayne 
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 6:21 AM
          Subject: [I-M223] Chromo2 M223

           

          Kenneth Nordtvedt has published SNPs tree of new markers from Chromo2 (britainsdna.com). Look at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/ and open file: Chromo2M223.pptx  

          Many new SNPs belong to group of L1228, Roots and somebody of probably Cont-2c or different man of Cont-2 (McMillan group?).
          Markers S1984=PF810 create a new branch Cont-2 (Johnston clan,  Arnold group or a new?)
          CTS6433 group has a few new markers into his branches.
          Interesting that Isles group does not have many markers.
          At present we can't see any new markers in Cont-3.

          Kit number consist of three digits, for example: 192
          #269 belongs to two branches: S5025 and CTS1977 but probably it is some mistake.

          Regards,
          Tom

        • Scott Hunter
          I am a member of the Cont 2c group, and I have been watching the recent activity around the new tests being offered by various groups, but as usual, I am
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 3, 2014
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            I am a member of the Cont 2c group, and I have been watching the recent activity around the new tests being offered by various groups, but as usual, I am confused about what it means to me, and what I should be doing now, if there is, in fact, anything for me to do. Can anyone help?

            Scott Hunter
            ---------------------------------------------------




            On Feb 2, 2014, at 12:21 PM, <qumavren@...> <qumavren@...> wrote:

             

            Kenneth Nordtvedt has published SNPs tree of new markers from Chromo2 (britainsdna.com). Look at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/ and open file: Chromo2M223.pptx  

            Many new SNPs belong to group of L1228, Roots and somebody of probably Cont-2c or different man of Cont-2 (McMillan group?).
            Markers S1984=PF810 create a new branch Cont-2 (Johnston clan,  Arnold group or a new?)
            CTS6433 group has a few new markers into his branches.
            Interesting that Isles group does not have many markers.
            At present we can't see any new markers in Cont-3.

            Kit number consist of three digits, for example: 192
            #269 belongs to two branches: S5025 and CTS1977 but probably it is some mistake.

            Regards,
            Tom


          • qumavren
            Hello Scott, In my opinion you should talk with Wayne or Aaron. They can specify an exact type of test for you. Below I have described short my thoughts. At
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 4, 2014
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              Hello Scott,

              In my opinion you should talk with Wayne or Aaron. They can specify an exact type of test for you.

              Below I have described short my thoughts.
              At present Cont2c group is defined by two SNP: L623 and L147
              From your group Games (#31781) and Wray (#N23983) has tested Geno2.0 but no new SNP has not been discovered, so this test in this version is not useful for you.

              Test Chromo2 has been described by Wayne earlier in this topic. It is very difficult to determine whether this test reveals your group. SNPs L623 and L147 are not tested by Chromo2.

              For each group, looks very promising the test BIG-Y but that this test was useful at least two people in the each group must be tested. From your group Games (#31781) ordered this test. Look at: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/I-M223/conversations/topics/3728

              Next test is full Y from Full Genome Corporation (FGC) but now its results is very foggy. I have found no studies but I don't have an account on Facebook so maybe there are any messages. This test has a high potential for researchers and for you. Wayne tested FGC so he could describe this test.

              Because I am not the specialist now I present only my point of view. In my opinion for you and your group the best choice is BIG-Y, but now this price is not encouraging. The second choice can be FGC, then Chromo2.

              Now prices:
              BIG-Y - 695$
              FGC - 1250$
              Chromo2 - 299$
              Chromo2 raw data - 199$

              The best choice is Chromo2 raw data.
              Your money your choice.
              This month should be the first results of the BIG-Y. Maybe you should wait for this results and after decide about your test.

              Wayne, thank you for your work for us.

              Kind regards
              Tom

            • Wayne Roberts
              Tom, thanks for your contribution to this topic and reply to Scott Hunter. I have had a busy day so so have not had much chance to reply earlier. Scott, at
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 4, 2014
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                Tom, thanks for your contribution to this topic and reply to Scott Hunter. I have had a busy day so so have not had much chance to reply earlier.
                 
                Scott, at present, it may be best to wait a month or so so we can see what results come from Big Y.
                 
                Having said that, what has been revealed so far through Chromo2 shows two branches that are Z161+ but L801-, Z183- represented by samples #190 and #189. It is quite possible one of these samples is from a person that is L623+, L147+. Because BritainsDNA/ScotlandsDNA have not released the location on the Y chromosome of their new SNPs we do not know if one of the S series SNPs found in Chromo2 test for #190 or #189 is same as L623 or L147.
                 
                Now sample #190 has one new SNP not found in other M223 samples - S3673.
                 
                And sample #189 has twenty-one new SNPs not found in other M223 samples - S2551, S11130, S11391, S14548, S15802, S16171, S16500, S16912, S17838, S18009, S18614, S18873, S20076, S20291, S21760, S22129, S22215, S22458, S23413, S23785 and S24151.
                 
                Of course sample #190 or sample #189 may be a whole new branch of Z161 or it may be from a person from the Vella/Tanner/MacMillan Z161 group.
                 
                One way to help sort some of these new branches and SNPs would be to have various Project members with known branch SNPs order and test Chromo2 Raw then compare their results with those of the anomynous samples.
                 
                As for my FGC test, my sample was one of a few tested at a Los Angeles lab and results were not of the quality desired so I had to send in a new sample in late December to be tested at the lab that has delivered high quality results. So I am still waiting on results. But others with results back seem very pleased.
                 
                Finally, Geno 2.0 and Chromo2 do not test STR markers. They only test for specific SNPs. FGC tests for over 300 STR markers and looks for SNPs, known and new. Big Y is only available to FTDNA customers that have a kit number and will test for known SNPs and look at a portion of the Y chromosome for new SNPs.
                 
                Wayne
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:24 PM
                Subject: Re: [I-M223] Chromo2 M223

                 

                Hello Scott,

                In my opinion you should talk with Wayne or Aaron. They can specify an exact type of test for you.

                Below I have described short my thoughts.
                At present Cont2c group is defined by two SNP: L623 and L147
                From your group Games (#31781) and Wray (#N23983) has tested Geno2.0 but no new SNP has not been discovered, so this test in this version is not useful for you.

                Test Chromo2 has been described by Wayne earlier in this topic. It is very difficult to determine whether this test reveals your group. SNPs L623 and L147 are not tested by Chromo2.

                For each group, looks very promising the test BIG-Y but that this test was useful at least two people in the each group must be tested. From your group Games (#31781) ordered this test. Look at: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/I-M223/conversations/topics/3728

                Next test is full Y from Full Genome Corporation (FGC) but now its results is very foggy. I have found no studies but I don't have an account on Facebook so maybe there are any messages. This test has a high potential for researchers and for you. Wayne tested FGC so he could describe this test.

                Because I am not the specialist now I present only my point of view. In my opinion for you and your group the best choice is BIG-Y, but now this price is not encouraging. The second choice can be FGC, then Chromo2.

                Now prices:
                BIG-Y - 695$
                FGC - 1250$
                Chromo2 - 299$
                Chromo2 raw data - 199$

                The best choice is Chromo2 raw data.
                Your money your choice.
                This month should be the first results of the BIG-Y. Maybe you should wait for this results and after decide about your test.

                Wayne, thank you for your work for us.

                Kind regards
                Tom

              • Scott Hunter
                Thank you Wayne and Tom, for your attention to my question.It looks like I ll be waiting on further results, or additional tests, before proceeding, but even
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 4, 2014
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                  Thank you Wayne and Tom, for your attention to my question.It looks like I'll be waiting on further results, or additional tests, before proceeding, but even then, I'll probably need help interpreting my next options. BTW, if you don't have a way of knowing, my FTDNA kit number is 21888.

                  Scott
                  ---------------------------------------------------




                  On Feb 4, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Wayne Roberts wrote:

                   

                  

                  Tom, thanks for your contribution to this topic and reply to Scott Hunter. I have had a busy day so so have not had much chance to reply earlier.
                   
                  Scott, at present, it may be best to wait a month or so so we can see what results come from Big Y.
                   
                  Having said that, what has been revealed so far through Chromo2 shows two branches that are Z161+ but L801-, Z183- represented by samples #190 and #189. It is quite possible one of these samples is from a person that is L623+, L147+. Because BritainsDNA/ScotlandsDNA have not released the location on the Y chromosome of their new SNPs we do not know if one of the S series SNPs found in Chromo2 test for #190 or #189 is same as L623 or L147.
                   
                  Now sample #190 has one new SNP not found in other M223 samples - S3673.
                   
                  And sample #189 has twenty-one new SNPs not found in other M223 samples - S2551, S11130, S11391, S14548, S15802, S16171, S16500, S16912, S17838, S18009, S18614, S18873, S20076, S20291, S21760, S22129, S22215, S22458, S23413, S23785 and S24151.
                   
                  Of course sample #190 or sample #189 may be a whole new branch of Z161 or it may be from a person from the Vella/Tanner/MacMillan Z161 group.
                   
                  One way to help sort some of these new branches and SNPs would be to have various Project members with known branch SNPs order and test Chromo2 Raw then compare their results with those of the anomynous samples.
                   
                  As for my FGC test, my sample was one of a few tested at a Los Angeles lab and results were not of the quality desired so I had to send in a new sample in late December to be tested at the lab that has delivered high quality results. So I am still waiting on results. But others with results back seem very pleased.
                   
                  Finally, Geno 2.0 and Chromo2 do not test STR markers. They only test for specific SNPs. FGC tests for over 300 STR markers and looks for SNPs, known and new. Big Y is only available to FTDNA customers that have a kit number and will test for known SNPs and look at a portion of the Y chromosome for new SNPs.
                   
                  Wayne
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] Chromo2 M223

                   

                  Hello Scott,

                  In my opinion you should talk with Wayne or Aaron. They can specify an exact type of test for you.

                  Below I have described short my thoughts.
                  At present Cont2c group is defined by two SNP: L623 and L147
                  From your group Games (#31781) and Wray (#N23983) has tested Geno2.0 but no new SNP has not been discovered, so this test in this version is not useful for you.

                  Test Chromo2 has been described by Wayne earlier in this topic. It is very difficult to determine whether this test reveals your group. SNPs L623 and L147 are not tested by Chromo2.

                  For each group, looks very promising the test BIG-Y but that this test was useful at least two people in the each group must be tested. From your group Games (#31781) ordered this test. Look at: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/I-M223/conversations/topics/3728

                  Next test is full Y from Full Genome Corporation (FGC) but now its results is very foggy. I have found no studies but I don't have an account on Facebook so maybe there are any messages. This test has a high potential for researchers and for you. Wayne tested FGC so he could describe this test.

                  Because I am not the specialist now I present only my point of view. In my opinion for you and your group the best choice is BIG-Y, but now this price is not encouraging. The second choice can be FGC, then Chromo2.

                  Now prices:
                  BIG-Y - 695$
                  FGC - 1250$
                  Chromo2 - 299$
                  Chromo2 raw data - 199$

                  The best choice is Chromo2 raw data.
                  Your money your choice.
                  This month should be the first results of the BIG-Y. Maybe you should wait for this results and after decide about your test.

                  Wayne, thank you for your work for us.

                  Kind regards
                  Tom




                • qumavren
                  Hello Scott, You don t have to wait on further results of test BIG-Y or FGC. Your line is not good recognized. Because your roots are Irish it will be very
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 4, 2014
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                    Hello Scott,
                    You don't have to wait on further results of test BIG-Y or FGC.
                    Your line is not good recognized. Because your roots are Irish it will be very nice for researchers and your group if you order Chromo2 which tested only SNP but different than Geno 2.0 or known SNPs from FTDNA. Time from receiving the kit to release of results is 6-8 weeks. During this time probably nothing exciting happens but your results could be useful for development your branch.
                    If you could spend this money for Chromo2 it is good spend money.
                    Kind regards,
                    Tom

                  • Scott Hunter
                    Thanks, Tom, but I m afraid the cost is well beyond my limit for these tests. I guess I ll wait for more focussed and less expensive tests when they become
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 4, 2014
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                      Thanks, Tom, but I'm afraid the cost  is well beyond my limit for these tests. I guess I'll wait for more focussed and less expensive tests when they become available.

                      Scott
                      ---------------------------------------------------




                      On Feb 4, 2014, at 4:42 PM, <qumavren@...> <qumavren@...> wrote:

                       

                      Hello Scott,
                      You don't have to wait on further results of test BIG-Y or FGC.
                      Your line is not good recognized. Because your roots are Irish it will be very nice for researchers and your group if you order Chromo2 which tested only SNP but different than Geno 2.0 or known SNPs from FTDNA. Time from receiving the kit to release of results is 6-8 weeks. During this time probably nothing exciting happens but your results could be useful for development your branch.
                      If you could spend this money for Chromo2 it is good spend money.
                      Kind regards,
                      Tom



                    • colinfergie
                      Hi Tom, Looks like 14 kits for L126+ and that it split into three subclades S4271, S7753nc, S7937. Do we know if any of those subclades are Isles-Scot or
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 11, 2014
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                        Hi Tom,
                        Looks like 14 kits for L126+ and that it split into three subclades S4271, S7753nc, S7937. Do we know if any of those subclades are Isles-Scot or Isles-Scot16? Anymore pending?
                        Thanks,
                        Colin
                      • qumavren
                        Hi Colin, In our group we have only one person Cochran (#329342) but probably his result is pending because I can t see his STR. Maybe Wayne could check him
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 11, 2014
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                          Hi Colin,

                          In our group we have only one person Cochran (#329342) but probably his result is pending because I can't see his STR. Maybe Wayne could check him but I don't know if he is this same person who Ken marked 214. If he is this same person this could indicate one of Isles-Scot group.
                          Now we have to wait for update Chromo2 by K. Nordtvedt. Maybe he has received new data.

                          Regards,
                          Tom

                        • Wayne Roberts
                          Thanks Tom and Colin, I am having some problems accessing web pages at present though email works. Yes Cochran is the person that did Chromo2. As Chromo2 only
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 11, 2014
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                            Thanks Tom and Colin,
                             
                            I am having some problems accessing web pages at present though email works.
                             
                            Yes Cochran is the person that did Chromo2. As Chromo2 only tests for SNPs, I invited James to join FTDNA and this Project so as he can get a haplotype of STR markers and we can see where he fits into Isles Scots as he was L126+. His test is pending at present.
                             
                            Also I think the Big Y tests by various members including several in Isles Scots groups are still on track. I have not seen anything to the contrary posted.
                             
                            Wayne
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:29 AM
                            Subject: [I-M223] RE: Chromo2 M223

                             

                            Hi Colin,

                            In our group we have only one person Cochran (#329342) but probably his result is pending because I can't see his STR. Maybe Wayne could check him but I don't know if he is this same person who Ken marked 214. If he is this same person this could indicate one of Isles-Scot group.
                            Now we have to wait for update Chromo2 by K. Nordtvedt. Maybe he has received new data.

                            Regards,
                            Tom

                          • qumavren
                            K. Nordtvedt has released a new version of the Chromo2M223 tree. Look at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/ and open file: Chromo2M223.pptx Tom
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 22, 2014
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                              K. Nordtvedt has released a new version of the Chromo2M223 tree.
                              Look at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/
                              and open file: Chromo2M223.pptx

                              Tom
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