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Re: [I-M223] Hi ya'll!

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  • Wayne Roberts
    Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project. I m sure your family s story will be a best seller when completed. I found it
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 11, 2013
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      Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
       
      I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
       
      I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
       
      Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
       
      By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
       
      I hope you enjoy the journey.
       
      Wayne Roberts
      Co-Administrator
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
      Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya'll!

       

      Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


      My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

      Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

       Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

      Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

      The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

      Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

      I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

      Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

      Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

      So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

      Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

      Mike

    • m223pari
      Hi Wayne, thank you for your response. I didn t take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin. If I may ask, what is a
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 11, 2013
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        Hi Wayne, thank you for your response.  I didn't take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin.  If I may ask, what is a "rooter"?  Is this a group or region of people or something else? 


        I went back after reading your reply and saw my surname on the chart.  I hope to learn how to read it soon.  How was the determination made as to where I belong on the chart?  I don't ask as one in disbelief but strictly out of curiosity as to what you see when you look at the data I've thus far provided.  Remember I have no knowledge of interpretation yet.


        Lastly, I would like to ask your opinion on what I should purchase next.  I run on a strict budget where everything is saved and accounted for.  By bypassing the other Marker tests and going straight to 67 the cost is just under $200.  Would you recommended I save for this or first save and test the other tests you recommended?  The L1229/Z2054.  Lol I am not even sure what is meant by one defining and the other splitting, ah the feeling of not knowing anything haha!


        Thank you again Wayne for your prompt and welcoming reply.


        Take Care,


        Mike





        --- In i-m223@yahoogroups.com, <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

        
        Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
         
        I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
         
        I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
         
        Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
         
        By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
         
        I hope you enjoy the journey.
         
        Wayne Roberts
        Co-Administrator
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
        Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya&#39;ll!

         

        Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


        My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

        Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

         Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

        Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

        The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

        Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

        I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

        Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

        Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

        So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

        Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

        Mike
      • DNAresults
        Hello Mike, I d like to suggest that before committing to purchasing any more tests, i.e increasing your markers (STR haploTYPE markers) or buying specific SNP
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 11, 2013
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          Hello Mike,

          I'd like to suggest that before committing to purchasing any more tests, i.e increasing your markers (STR haploTYPE markers) or buying specific SNP tests (those pesky L numbers, I-M223 numbers, etc. defining haploGROUPs and subgroups) that you stop, regroup and get some additional information on just what doing genealogy using genetics is all about. Just what the heck all those numbers received back mean and how to use them.  To do this I strongly suggest you visit the site https://sites.google.com/site/wheatonsurname/beginners-guide-to-genetic-genealogy
          which is a Beginners guide to Genetic Genealogy presented in 17 lessons. It's free and authoritatively written.  For example, the numbers you received back from your 12 marker test are STR values -- their definition and their relationship to haploTYPES  are discussed in lesson 3 -- the discussion of HaploGROUPS and SNPs that define them are covered in lesson 4 -- there are a total of 17 lessons that cover most all the confusing nomenclature in short, easily digested write ups with illustrations. They are quite well written and aim to help complete beginners and take you along from zero, the beginning, up to some intermediate stuff as they progress.. best of course is to start at lesson 1 and take it slowly at first. 

          The trouble with most the discussions on these forums is that they are conversations between people who have been at it for so long that they forget that all the nomenclature and jargon they use is really a foreign language that has to be picked up along the way before it becomes meaningful.  That is why taking the time to read a few of the "lessons" on the link I posted for you is almost mandatory before you can make intelligent use of your DNA test results. It is a long climb from the paper trail genealogy and linking that information to the additional information provided by DNA test results. The trip is however, really worth while and will be very helpful in the long run to resolve some of your ancestral questions. 

          Give it a shot, then come back with more questions. As you'll discover, you have a personal ancestral tree discovered by paper genealogy that can be assisted by haplotype tests and STR markers from 12 to 111 -- the two work together and one without the other is useless. Your ancestral tree has a root at the most distant family ancestor in your male line of descent you can identify using the paper trail.   Then there are Haplogroups, defining branches off the tree of mankind, much more generic and involving deep time history. There. one my discuss roots of a particular branch of that tree. But read about it first at the link above, then come back and discuss your particular haplogroup I-M223 and how you fit into that.

          Best wishes for your research. I think you will learn a lot by exploring the genetics of your ancestry and it can actually be fun.

          Richard Brewer


          On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 5:02 PM, <m223pari@...> wrote:
           

          Thanks Cliff!  This is a whole new education for me.  I figured I would incrementally upgrade my markers over time as the budget allows until I was at the maximum in Y-DNA testing.  I am just excited to see that maybe the childhood story I was given has possibly a grain of truth to it.  Thanks again bud! 


          Mike 

          Mike,
           
          I started off in much the same manner as you have.  I found out quickly that the best test for establishing a connection when others have also taken the test and match is the 67 markers.  12 markers is like saying that you are of Viking descent, but it fails to tell you anything else.  It just puts you in a region.  The additional markers will help to make closer connections, but only if there are other people who have tested with your Y-DNA.  You're in a pretty good group here for help.  I would hazard a guess that you'll find someone matching you, or at least the chances are pretty good.
           
          Good hunting,
           
          Cliff.

          From: "m223pari@..." <m223pari@...>

          To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:12 PM
          Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya'll!
           
          Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.

          My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

          Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

           Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

          Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

          The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

          Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

          I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

          Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

          Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

          So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

          Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

          Mike


        • Wayne Roberts
          Mike, Glad you have seen your name in the Project list. As for rooter , it is Australian slang, along with have a root , root rat , good root , etc. I
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 11, 2013
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            Mike,
             
            Glad you have seen your name in the Project list. As for "rooter", it is Australian slang, along with "have a root", "root rat", "good root", etc. I think you and others might get the gist of it's meaning.
             
            Anyways, us I-M223 Rooters separated from the I-M223 tree with a SNP mutation named L1229. So we are all derived for L1229 while the rest of the I-M223 folk are ancestral. Another SNP mutation called Z2054 in the L1229 branch resulted in some Roots members being ancestral and others being derived. And so it goes with further SNP mutations.
             
            I'll send you an invitation to our Facebook group, there is a good chart there and lots of other information posted by members.
             
            Wayne
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:37 PM
            Subject: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

             

            Hi Wayne, thank you for your response.  I didn't take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin.  If I may ask, what is a "rooter"?  Is this a group or region of people or something else? 


            I went back after reading your reply and saw my surname on the chart.  I hope to learn how to read it soon.  How was the determination made as to where I belong on the chart?  I don't ask as one in disbelief but strictly out of curiosity as to what you see when you look at the data I've thus far provided.  Remember I have no knowledge of interpretation yet.


            Lastly, I would like to ask your opinion on what I should purchase next.  I run on a strict budget where everything is saved and accounted for.  By bypassing the other Marker tests and going straight to 67 the cost is just under $200.  Would you recommended I save for this or first save and test the other tests you recommended?  The L1229/Z2054.  Lol I am not even sure what is meant by one defining and the other splitting, ah the feeling of not knowing anything haha!


            Thank you again Wayne for your prompt and welcoming reply.


            Take Care,


            Mike





            --- In i-m223@yahoogroups.com, <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

            
            Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
             
            I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
             
            I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
             
            Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
             
            By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
             
            I hope you enjoy the journey.
             
            Wayne Roberts
            Co-Administrator
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
            Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya&#39;ll!

             

            Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


            My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

            Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

             Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

            Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

            The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

            Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

            I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

            Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

            Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

            So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

            Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

            Mike

          • lairdkinna
            Hey Wayne, Better explain ancestral and derived while you re at it - those terms confuse a lot of new people and some oldies :-) Connie --- In
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 11, 2013
            • 0 Attachment

              Hey Wayne,


              Better explain "ancestral" and "derived" while you're at it - those terms confuse a lot of new people and some oldies :-)


              Connie 



              --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              
              Mike,
               
              Glad you have seen your name in the Project list. As for "rooter", it is Australian slang, along with "have a root", "root rat", "good root", etc. I think you and others might get the gist of it's meaning.
               
              Anyways, us I-M223 Rooters separated from the I-M223 tree with a SNP mutation named L1229. So we are all derived for L1229 while the rest of the I-M223 folk are ancestral. Another SNP mutation called Z2054 in the L1229 branch resulted in some Roots members being ancestral and others being derived. And so it goes with further SNP mutations.
               
              I'll send you an invitation to our Facebook group, there is a good chart there and lots of other information posted by members.
               
              Wayne
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:37 PM
              Subject: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

               

              Hi Wayne, thank you for your response.  I didn't take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin.  If I may ask, what is a "rooter"?  Is this a group or region of people or something else? 


              I went back after reading your reply and saw my surname on the chart.  I hope to learn how to read it soon.  How was the determination made as to where I belong on the chart?  I don't ask as one in disbelief but strictly out of curiosity as to what you see when you look at the data I've thus far provided.  Remember I have no knowledge of interpretation yet.


              Lastly, I would like to ask your opinion on what I should purchase next.  I run on a strict budget where everything is saved and accounted for.  By bypassing the other Marker tests and going straight to 67 the cost is just under $200.  Would you recommended I save for this or first save and test the other tests you recommended?  The L1229/Z2054.  Lol I am not even sure what is meant by one defining and the other splitting, ah the feeling of not knowing anything haha!


              Thank you again Wayne for your prompt and welcoming reply.


              Take Care,


              Mike





              --- In i-m223@yahoogroups.com, <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

              
              Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
               
              I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
               
              I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
               
              Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
               
              By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
               
              I hope you enjoy the journey.
               
              Wayne Roberts
              Co-Administrator
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
              Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya&#39;ll!

               

              Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


              My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

              Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

               Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

              Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

              The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

              Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

              I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

              Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

              Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

              So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

              Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

              Mike
            • Wayne Roberts
              Thanks Connie, I usually put something in brackets and thought I did in previous posts. See Haplogroup I tree as currently determined by International Society
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 12, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                
                Thanks Connie,
                 
                I usually put something in brackets and thought I did in previous posts.
                 
                See Haplogroup I tree as currently determined by International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG) for SNP tree and phyloequivalent SNPs. Scroll down to I2a2a for M223 tree.
                 
                 
                Anyways -
                 
                Ancestral - original state of the site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as negative (-)
                 
                Derived - mutated state of a site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as positive (+)
                 
                The ISOGG SNP index can be found at
                 
                 
                Some SNPs showing the original base and the mutated base:
                 
                M223 is G --> A
                 
                L1229 is C --> A
                 
                Z2054 is C --> T
                 
                L1230 is G --> A
                 
                L812 is G --> A
                 
                Also see ISOGG Glossary for the various terms.
                 
                 
                 
                Wayne
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:26 PM
                Subject: RE: Re: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                 

                Hey Wayne,


                Better explain "ancestral" and "derived" while you're at it - those terms confuse a lot of new people and some oldies :-)


                Connie 



                --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                
                Mike,
                 
                Glad you have seen your name in the Project list. As for "rooter", it is Australian slang, along with "have a root", "root rat", "good root", etc. I think you and others might get the gist of it's meaning.
                 
                Anyways, us I-M223 Rooters separated from the I-M223 tree with a SNP mutation named L1229. So we are all derived for L1229 while the rest of the I-M223 folk are ancestral. Another SNP mutation called Z2054 in the L1229 branch resulted in some Roots members being ancestral and others being derived. And so it goes with further SNP mutations.
                 
                I'll send you an invitation to our Facebook group, there is a good chart there and lots of other information posted by members.
                 
                Wayne
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:37 PM
                Subject: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                 

                Hi Wayne, thank you for your response.  I didn't take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin.  If I may ask, what is a "rooter"?  Is this a group or region of people or something else? 


                I went back after reading your reply and saw my surname on the chart.  I hope to learn how to read it soon.  How was the determination made as to where I belong on the chart?  I don't ask as one in disbelief but strictly out of curiosity as to what you see when you look at the data I've thus far provided.  Remember I have no knowledge of interpretation yet.


                Lastly, I would like to ask your opinion on what I should purchase next.  I run on a strict budget where everything is saved and accounted for.  By bypassing the other Marker tests and going straight to 67 the cost is just under $200.  Would you recommended I save for this or first save and test the other tests you recommended?  The L1229/Z2054.  Lol I am not even sure what is meant by one defining and the other splitting, ah the feeling of not knowing anything haha!


                Thank you again Wayne for your prompt and welcoming reply.


                Take Care,


                Mike





                --- In i-m223@yahoogroups.com, <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

                
                Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
                 
                I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
                 
                I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
                 
                Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
                 
                By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
                 
                I hope you enjoy the journey.
                 
                Wayne Roberts
                Co-Administrator
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
                Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya&#39;ll!

                 

                Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


                My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

                Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

                 Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

                Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

                The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

                Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

                I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

                Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

                Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

                So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

                Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

                Mike

              • m223pari
                Richard, Wayne and Connie - Thank you all so much for your help. I have a lot of links to look over and learn from. I hope to be an active member of your
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 12, 2013
                • 0 Attachment

                  Richard, Wayne and Connie - Thank you all so much for your help.  I have a lot of links to look over and learn from.  I hope to be an active member of your discussions going into the future!


                  Take Care


                  Mike 



                  --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  
                  Thanks Connie,
                   
                  I usually put something in brackets and thought I did in previous posts.
                   
                  See Haplogroup I tree as currently determined by International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG) for SNP tree and phyloequivalent SNPs. Scroll down to I2a2a for M223 tree.
                   
                   
                  Anyways -
                   
                  Ancestral - original state of the site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as negative (-)
                   
                  Derived - mutated state of a site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as positive (+)
                   
                  The ISOGG SNP index can be found at
                   
                   
                  Some SNPs showing the original base and the mutated base:
                   
                  M223 is G --> A
                   
                  L1229 is C --> A
                   
                  Z2054 is C --> T
                   
                  L1230 is G --> A
                   
                  L812 is G --> A
                   
                  Also see ISOGG Glossary for the various terms.
                   
                   
                   
                  Wayne
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:26 PM
                  Subject: RE: Re: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                   

                  Hey Wayne,


                  Better explain "ancestral" and "derived" while you're at it - those terms confuse a lot of new people and some oldies :-)


                  Connie 



                  --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  
                  Mike,
                   
                  Glad you have seen your name in the Project list. As for "rooter", it is Australian slang, along with "have a root", "root rat", "good root", etc. I think you and others might get the gist of it's meaning.
                   
                  Anyways, us I-M223 Rooters separated from the I-M223 tree with a SNP mutation named L1229. So we are all derived for L1229 while the rest of the I-M223 folk are ancestral. Another SNP mutation called Z2054 in the L1229 branch resulted in some Roots members being ancestral and others being derived. And so it goes with further SNP mutations.
                   
                  I'll send you an invitation to our Facebook group, there is a good chart there and lots of other information posted by members.
                   
                  Wayne
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:37 PM
                  Subject: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                   

                  Hi Wayne, thank you for your response.  I didn't take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin.  If I may ask, what is a "rooter"?  Is this a group or region of people or something else? 


                  I went back after reading your reply and saw my surname on the chart.  I hope to learn how to read it soon.  How was the determination made as to where I belong on the chart?  I don't ask as one in disbelief but strictly out of curiosity as to what you see when you look at the data I've thus far provided.  Remember I have no knowledge of interpretation yet.


                  Lastly, I would like to ask your opinion on what I should purchase next.  I run on a strict budget where everything is saved and accounted for.  By bypassing the other Marker tests and going straight to 67 the cost is just under $200.  Would you recommended I save for this or first save and test the other tests you recommended?  The L1229/Z2054.  Lol I am not even sure what is meant by one defining and the other splitting, ah the feeling of not knowing anything haha!


                  Thank you again Wayne for your prompt and welcoming reply.


                  Take Care,


                  Mike





                  --- In i-m223@yahoogroups.com, <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

                  
                  Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
                   
                  I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
                   
                  I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
                   
                  Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
                   
                  By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
                   
                  I hope you enjoy the journey.
                   
                  Wayne Roberts
                  Co-Administrator
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
                  Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya&#39;ll!

                   

                  Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


                  My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

                  Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

                   Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

                  Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

                  The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

                  Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

                  I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

                  Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

                  Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

                  So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

                  Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

                  Mike
                • mellick@spacey.net
                  Mike, Richard gave you some excellant suggestions, in a very great post!!! John ... From: DNAresults Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 12, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Mike,

                    Richard gave you some excellant suggestions, in a very great post!!!

                    John


                    From: "DNAresults" <brewerdna@...>
                    Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:15 AM
                    To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: Re: [I-M223] Hi ya'll!
                     
                         

                    Hello Mike,

                    I'd like to suggest that before committing to purchasing any more tests, i.e increasing your markers (STR haploTYPE markers) or buying specific SNP tests (those pesky L numbers, I-M223 numbers, etc. defining haploGROUPs and subgroups) that you stop, regroup and get some additional information on just what doing genealogy using genetics is all about. Just what the heck all those numbers received back mean and how to use them.  To do this I strongly suggest you visit the site https://sites.google.com/site/wheatonsurname/beginners-guide-to-genetic-genealogy
                    which is a Beginners guide to Genetic Genealogy presented in 17 lessons. It's free and authoritatively written.  For example, the numbers you received back from your 12 marker test are STR values -- their definition and their relationship to haploTYPES  are discussed in lesson 3 -- the discussion of HaploGROUPS and SNPs that define them are covered in lesson 4 -- there are a total of 17 lessons that cover most all the confusing nomenclature in short, easily digested write ups with illustrations. They are quite well written and aim to help complete beginners and take you along from zero, the beginning, up to some intermediate stuff as they progress.. best of course is to start at lesson 1 and take it slowly at first. 
                     
                    The trouble with most the discussions on these forums is that they are conversations between people who have been at it for so long that they forget that all the nomenclature and jargon they use is really a foreign language that has to be picked up along the way before it becomes meaningful.  That is why taking the time to read a few of the "lessons" on the link I posted for you is almost mandatory before you can make intelligent use of your DNA test results. It is a long climb from the paper trail genealogy and linking that information to the additional information provided by DNA test results. The trip is however, really worth while and will be very helpful in the long run to resolve some of your ancestral questions. 
                     
                    Give it a shot, then come back with more questions. As you'll discover, you have a personal ancestral tree discovered by paper genealogy that can be assisted by haplotype tests and STR markers from 12 to 111 -- the two work together and one without the other is useless. Your ancestral tree has a root at the most distant family ancestor in your male line of descent you can identify using the paper trail.   Then there are Haplogroups, defining branches off the tree of mankind, much more generic and involving deep time history. There. one my discuss roots of a particular branch of that tree. But read about it first at the link above, then come back and discuss your particular haplogroup I-M223 and how you fit into that.
                     
                    Best wishes for your research. I think you will learn a lot by exploring the genetics of your ancestry and it can actually be fun.
                     
                    Richard Brewer

                  • joaobraz_2000
                    Hi Wayne, Your portuguese something that turned into English Martin is probably Martins , a very common name in Portugal! Cheers, JOAO kit 260237
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 12, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Wayne,

                      Your portuguese something that turned into English Martin is probably "Martins", a very common name in Portugal!

                      Cheers,
                      JOAO
                      kit 260237



                      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
                      >
                      > I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
                      >
                      > I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
                      >
                      > Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
                      >
                      > By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
                      >
                      > I hope you enjoy the journey.
                      >
                      > Wayne Roberts
                      > Co-Administrator
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: m223pari@...
                      > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
                      > Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya'll!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi everyone! Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this. I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years. I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My story in a nutshell is as follows. I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga. I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family. I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad. There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them. They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian. They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.
                      >
                      >
                      > Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga. I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree. I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga. I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was. I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson), with an age of his late 40s. So this put his birth in the 1800s. My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert. My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923. Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish. Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation.
                      >
                      >
                      > Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success. There were three generations of Charles with many other children. I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga. The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story. There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians. The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States. Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.
                      >
                      >
                      > Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue. I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family. The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business. Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.
                      >
                      >
                      > The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin. One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation. Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879. Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico. I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations. Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys? I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather. Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.
                      >
                      >
                      > Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it. I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.
                      >
                      >
                      > I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic. Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations. FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.
                      >
                      >
                      > Once again I was like WOW! this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.
                      >
                      >
                      > Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223. FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol. I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested.
                      >
                      >
                      > So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group? I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers. I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol. Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob. Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!
                      >
                      >
                      > Mike
                      >
                    • Cliff. Johnston
                      Martin is also fairly common in France.  When our daughter went to Paris for the summer as a senior to learn conversational French, she stayed with a family
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 13, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Martin is also fairly common in France.  When our daughter went to Paris for the summer as a senior to learn conversational French, she stayed with a family by the name of Martin :-)

                        From: joaobraz_2000 <joaobraz_2000@...>
                        To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:38 PM
                        Subject: [I-M223] Re: Hi ya'll!
                         
                        Hi Wayne,

                        Your portuguese something that turned into English Martin is probably "Martins", a very common name in Portugal!

                        Cheers,
                        JOAO
                        kit 260237

                        --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
                        >
                        > I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
                        >
                        > I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
                        >
                        > Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
                        >
                        > By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
                        >
                        > I hope you enjoy the journey.
                        >
                        > Wayne Roberts
                        > Co-Administrator
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: m223pari@...
                        > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
                        > Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya'll!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi everyone! Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this. I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years. I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > My story in a nutshell is as follows. I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga. I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family. I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad. There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them. They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian. They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.
                        >
                        >
                        > Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga. I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree. I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga. I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was. I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson), with an age of his late 40s. So this put his birth in the 1800s. My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert. My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923. Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish. Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation.
                        >
                        >
                        > Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success. There were three generations of Charles with many other children. I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga. The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story. There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians. The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States. Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.
                        >
                        >
                        > Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue. I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family. The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business. Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.
                        >
                        >
                        > The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin. One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation. Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879. Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico. I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations. Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys? I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather. Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.
                        >
                        >
                        > Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it. I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.
                        >
                        >
                        > I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic. Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations. FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.
                        >
                        >
                        > Once again I was like WOW! this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.
                        >
                        >
                        > Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223. FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol. I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested.
                        >
                        >
                        > So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group? I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers. I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol. Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob. Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >

                      • steadmantynes51
                        Mike, I can empathize with you about not understanding the language of genetic testing or the data. I was in the exact same position when I started. In
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 13, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Mike,


                          I can empathize with you about not understanding the language of genetic testing or the data.  I was in the exact same position when I started.


                          In addition to the website I can recommend a book "Trace Your Roots with DNA: Using Genetic Tests to Explore Your Family Tree" by MEgan Smolenyak.  It was written in 2004 so a few things aren't up-to-date, but overall it has some really great explanations in it.


                          JT 



                          --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Richard, Wayne and Connie - Thank you all so much for your help.  I have a lot of links to look over and learn from.  I hope to be an active member of your discussions going into the future!


                          Take Care


                          Mike 



                          --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          
                          Thanks Connie,
                           
                          I usually put something in brackets and thought I did in previous posts.
                           
                          See Haplogroup I tree as currently determined by International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG) for SNP tree and phyloequivalent SNPs. Scroll down to I2a2a for M223 tree.
                           
                           
                          Anyways -
                           
                          Ancestral - original state of the site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as negative (-)
                           
                          Derived - mutated state of a site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as positive (+)
                           
                          The ISOGG SNP index can be found at
                           
                           
                          Some SNPs showing the original base and the mutated base:
                           
                          M223 is G --> A
                           
                          L1229 is C --> A
                           
                          Z2054 is C --> T
                           
                          L1230 is G --> A
                           
                          L812 is G --> A
                           
                          Also see ISOGG Glossary for the various terms.
                           
                           
                           
                          Wayne
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:26 PM
                          Subject: RE: Re: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                           

                          Hey Wayne,


                          Better explain "ancestral" and "derived" while you're at it - those terms confuse a lot of new people and some oldies :-)


                          Connie 



                          --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          
                          Mike,
                           
                          Glad you have seen your name in the Project list. As for "rooter", it is Australian slang, along with "have a root", "root rat", "good root", etc. I think you and others might get the gist of it's meaning.
                           
                          Anyways, us I-M223 Rooters separated from the I-M223 tree with a SNP mutation named L1229. So we are all derived for L1229 while the rest of the I-M223 folk are ancestral. Another SNP mutation called Z2054 in the L1229 branch resulted in some Roots members being ancestral and others being derived. And so it goes with further SNP mutations.
                           
                          I'll send you an invitation to our Facebook group, there is a good chart there and lots of other information posted by members.
                           
                          Wayne
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:37 PM
                          Subject: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                           

                          Hi Wayne, thank you for your response.  I didn't take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin.  If I may ask, what is a "rooter"?  Is this a group or region of people or something else? 


                          I went back after reading your reply and saw my surname on the chart.  I hope to learn how to read it soon.  How was the determination made as to where I belong on the chart?  I don't ask as one in disbelief but strictly out of curiosity as to what you see when you look at the data I've thus far provided.  Remember I have no knowledge of interpretation yet.


                          Lastly, I would like to ask your opinion on what I should purchase next.  I run on a strict budget where everything is saved and accounted for.  By bypassing the other Marker tests and going straight to 67 the cost is just under $200.  Would you recommended I save for this or first save and test the other tests you recommended?  The L1229/Z2054.  Lol I am not even sure what is meant by one defining and the other splitting, ah the feeling of not knowing anything haha!


                          Thank you again Wayne for your prompt and welcoming reply.


                          Take Care,


                          Mike





                          --- In i-m223@yahoogroups.com, <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

                          
                          Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
                           
                          I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
                           
                          I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
                           
                          Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
                           
                          By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
                           
                          I hope you enjoy the journey.
                           
                          Wayne Roberts
                          Co-Administrator
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
                          Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya&#39;ll!

                           

                          Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


                          My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

                          Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

                           Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

                          Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

                          The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

                          Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

                          I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

                          Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

                          Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

                          So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

                          Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

                          Mike
                        • Micael Pariga
                          Thanks JT, I will give it a look! Sent from my iPhone ... Thanks JT, I will give it a look! Sent from my iPhone On Sep 13, 2013, at 11:28 AM,
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 13, 2013
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                            Thanks JT, I will give it a look!

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Sep 13, 2013, at 11:28 AM, <steadmantynes51@...> wrote:

                             

                            Mike,


                            I can empathize with you about not understanding the language of genetic testing or the data.  I was in the exact same position when I started.


                            In addition to the website I can recommend a book "Trace Your Roots with DNA: Using Genetic Tests to Explore Your Family Tree" by MEgan Smolenyak.  It was written in 2004 so a few things aren't up-to-date, but overall it has some really great explanations in it.


                            JT 



                            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Richard, Wayne and Connie - Thank you all so much for your help.  I have a lot of links to look over and learn from.  I hope to be an active member of your discussions going into the future!


                            Take Care


                            Mike 



                            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            
                            Thanks Connie,
                             
                            I usually put something in brackets and thought I did in previous posts.
                             
                            See Haplogroup I tree as currently determined by International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG) for SNP tree and phyloequivalent SNPs. Scroll down to I2a2a for M223 tree.
                             
                             
                            Anyways -
                             
                            Ancestral - original state of the site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as negative (-)
                             
                            Derived - mutated state of a site on the Y-chromosome, referred to as positive (+)
                             
                            The ISOGG SNP index can be found at
                             
                             
                            Some SNPs showing the original base and the mutated base:
                             
                            M223 is G --> A
                             
                            L1229 is C --> A
                             
                            Z2054 is C --> T
                             
                            L1230 is G --> A
                             
                            L812 is G --> A
                             
                            Also see ISOGG Glossary for the various terms.
                             
                             
                             
                            Wayne
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:26 PM
                            Subject: RE: Re: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                             

                            Hey Wayne,


                            Better explain "ancestral" and "derived" while you're at it - those terms confuse a lot of new people and some oldies :-)


                            Connie 



                            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, <i-m223@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            
                            Mike,
                             
                            Glad you have seen your name in the Project list. As for "rooter", it is Australian slang, along with "have a root", "root rat", "good root", etc. I think you and others might get the gist of it's meaning.
                             
                            Anyways, us I-M223 Rooters separated from the I-M223 tree with a SNP mutation named L1229. So we are all derived for L1229 while the rest of the I-M223 folk are ancestral. Another SNP mutation called Z2054 in the L1229 branch resulted in some Roots members being ancestral and others being derived. And so it goes with further SNP mutations.
                             
                            I'll send you an invitation to our Facebook group, there is a good chart there and lots of other information posted by members.
                             
                            Wayne
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:37 PM
                            Subject: [I-M223] RE: Hi ya&#39;ll!

                             

                            Hi Wayne, thank you for your response.  I didn't take anything as rude, everything is so new to me that I hardly know where to begin.  If I may ask, what is a "rooter"?  Is this a group or region of people or something else? 


                            I went back after reading your reply and saw my surname on the chart.  I hope to learn how to read it soon.  How was the determination made as to where I belong on the chart?  I don't ask as one in disbelief but strictly out of curiosity as to what you see when you look at the data I've thus far provided.  Remember I have no knowledge of interpretation yet.


                            Lastly, I would like to ask your opinion on what I should purchase next.  I run on a strict budget where everything is saved and accounted for.  By bypassing the other Marker tests and going straight to 67 the cost is just under $200.  Would you recommended I save for this or first save and test the other tests you recommended?  The L1229/Z2054.  Lol I am not even sure what is meant by one defining and the other splitting, ah the feeling of not knowing anything haha!


                            Thank you again Wayne for your prompt and welcoming reply.


                            Take Care,


                            Mike





                            --- In i-m223@yahoogroups.com, <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

                            
                            Hello Mike and welcome to this mailing list and also the the I-M223 Project.
                             
                            I'm sure your family's story will be a best seller when completed. I found it interesting and enjoy a challenge when it comes to family mysteries. I have at least two name changes further back on different ancestral lines. One was easy to solve Danish Christensen to Australian Christie. The other not so - Portuguese something to English Martin.
                             
                            I have had a look at your 12 markers. You look like a good solid Rooter. I'm not being rude here. Your 12 marker prediction and Y-DNA matches indicate you are part of the Roots sector in the Project's Y-DNA colorized results pages. I have therefore moved you to the Roots unknown grouping. To sort out which sub-grouping or clade you belong to in Roots, you will need to expand the number of markers to 67 and/or test for SNP, L1229 (which defines Roots) and Z2054 (which splits Roots).
                             
                            Two of the markers in the 38-67 marker panels - DYS531 and DYS446, also define Roots groups from most of the other sectors. DYS446= 8 or 9 and DYS531=11 or 12 define Roots groups.
                             
                            By browsing through the Roots sector, you will see members have diverse origins for their most recent known ancestor. It will be interesting to see where you match up best with 67 markers.
                             
                            I hope you enjoy the journey.
                             
                            Wayne Roberts
                            Co-Administrator
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:12 AM
                            Subject: [I-M223] Hi ya&#39;ll!

                             

                            Hi everyone!  Name is Mike and I am completely new to all this.  I have been doing basic paper tracing genealogy for upwards of 10 years.  I mainly focus on my wife's lineage as she has been far easier to trace back to England or elsewhere.


                            My story in a nutshell is as follows.  I am of Hispanic descent with the surname Pariga.  I quickly found out growing up that my last name was not common, in fact it was non-existent aside from my family.  I asked my dad about this and he told me a story as a young boy that he was given by his dad.  There where two Irish brothers by the surname Padagan who somehow became orphaned and were then adopted by a Mexican couple who then raised them.  They grew up with one marrying a Mexican lady and the other an Indian.  They had changed their surname from Padagan to Pariga to make it fit in more with their new culture, being Mexico I suppose.

                            Well I grew up and gained a passion for genealogy and didn't have much to go off of past my Paternal grandfather Frederico Pariga.  I began using various online resources and found death certificates for past relatives and began forming a tree.  I then found my great grandfather Frederico Pariga death certificate and used the information on there to learn his stats and my great-grandmothers identity. I also found a curious death certificate of a Charley Pariga.  I asked my dad about Charley and he didn't have a clue as to who he was.  I then looked at the data more closely and realized he died in 1923, buried in Winkleman,AZ (south of PHX but north of Tucson),  with an age of  his late 40s.  So this put his birth in the 1800s.  My great grandfather was born in Aug of 1879 per his death cert.  My dad then located on a website a headstone in Winkleman of a Charley Patikan 18??-1923.  Surname change from Pariga but the epitaph was in spanish.  Then I hit another block and wasn't even sure if this unknown Charley was of any relation. 

                             Bored but persistent I began to trace the Patikan surname from this Charley down with great success.  There were three generations of Charles with many other children.  I then reached out online to a living Patikan and told them of my search and asked what they knew of their ancestry or of a Charley Pariga.  The lady I spoke with gave a similar but different story.  There were two German brothers that were in a wagon train that was ambushed by apache indians.  The parents of these boys where killed in the ambush but they were adopted by a couple and raised here in the SW region of the United States.  Yet beyond that they knew nothing aside from the other brothers branch (I am assuming my Fred line) going elsewhere towards Phx.

                            Anyhow while searching in the town where my great grandmother has listed for her birth in Arivaca, AZ in the 1900 Arizona Territory census, I stumbled upon a new clue.  I didn't find her as a young girl but I came across two boarders staying with an affluent business owner and his family.  The business owner was Pickaney Tully and he and his partner Estevan Ochoa ran the largest wagon freighting operation in the nation at that time until the use of trains put them out of business.  Yet by this time they were serving in politics in nearby Tucson.  

                            The two boarders listed with the Tully family where Charles A and Frederick Padakin.  One worked as a stock herder and the other as a brakeman, presumably for the freighting operation.  Frederick's birth month and year were listed as Aug of 1879.  Both were shown as born in Arizona with a father from Germany and mother from Mexico.  I have found other records where these two would go with different Surnames with different spelling variations.  Are these the orphans or the children of one of the orphan boys?  I don't know nor do I know if I will ever crack this out beyond my great grandfather.  Yet these clues where always weighing on my mind and i settled with my line just choosing Pariga and the other branch picking Patikan.

                            Then I decided to use Ancestry's Autosomal DNA testing last year and see what would come of it.  I got Southern European 45%, Native North American 26%, Native South American 10%, Central Asian 9%, Finish/Volga-Ural 6% and Uncertain 4%.  

                            I was like wow but what came from where and I guess I am not totally Hispanic.  Then FTDNA offered a Autosomal transfer at a discount and I submitted the Ancestry raw data over to see if there would be differing interpretations.  FTDNA came back with European at 43.68% from Orcadian, Russian population, Native American 35.72% from Maya population and Middle East (North Africa) at 20.03% from Mozabite population.

                            Once again I was like WOW!  this is neat, since I am a noob with genetic genealogy. Then a couple months ago decided to put the Pariga surname to the test and i paid for the entry level, 12 marker FTDNA Y-DNA test.  

                            Today I got my results and was given the haplogroup I-M223.  FTDNA talked briefly about my roots maybe migrating from France and Northern Europe and being in Viking/Scandinavian populations but that I could upgrade for more markers, lol.  I know I should for my own knowledge but I love the up sale. They gave me numbers for the twelve alleles tested. 

                            So here I am, I can't find a lot of information on this I-M223, is this a special sub-group?  I have no idea how to read and interpret these numbers.  I have looked over your discussions and see people talking about L this or L that among other things and I have no idea what anyone is talking about lol.  Is there material on this that I could read and learn and not feel like such a noob.  Any guidance from ya'll genetic genealogy masters would be most welcome!

                            Thanks for reading my short novel, I hope it become a New York Times Bestseller!

                            Mike

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