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Re: IslesIrish with question re results

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  • stephenctimmis
    Hi rebecca I managed to count 7 Bryants in the Roots 2b section. If you have proof that they are all related within 6-8 generations, that is very interesting,
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 30, 2013
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      Hi rebecca

      I managed to count 7 Bryants in the Roots 2b section. If you have proof that they are all related within 6-8 generations, that is very interesting, and shows that my invented illustration maybe not completely outrageous.

      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Rebecca Bryant <rebbry49@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > We
      > have  8-10 Bryants in the project. All are genealogically proven to be
      > related within 6-8 generations. Some do not show up as matches for each
      > other because they have more mutations than allowed by FTDNA algorithms.
      > I know there are other family DNA projects  reporting a higher mutation
      > rate than incorporated into algorithms. Rebecca
      >
    • Rebecca Bryant
      Stephen, If you are interested in more details, you can look here: https://sites.google.com/site/bryantsofrockislandcreek/dna-results Rebecca
      Message 2 of 10 , May 1 4:54 AM
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        Stephen,
        If you are interested in more details, you can look here: https://sites.google.com/site/bryantsofrockislandcreek/dna-results

        Rebecca

      • Dora Smith
        I don’t know what was the original question, or the group in question. Certainly it isn’t highly unusual to be able to track a family group across more
        Message 3 of 10 , May 1 5:28 AM
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          I don’t know what was the original question, or the group in question.   Certainly it isn’t highly unusual to be able to track a family group across more genetic distance than Family Tree DNA allows.    The 600+ year old Doolittle family has a genetic distance of 9, in R1b1a2, which tends to have more genetic variation than haplogroup I for any given time period.   The AS121210 cluster, small and clearly all descended from a Germanic warrior or family thereof that fought with the Romans, judging from where they turn up, and lived around 300 AD, has a genetic distance of 10, and it’s a highly reliable cluster, easy to identify at 67 markers.    The 600 year old Isles Scottish McKinstry family group has a maximum genetic distance of 6, but there are families from the same area with a genetic distance of 6 to 7.  
           
          Now, one has to be careful, because in large haplogroups with large amounts of genetic variation from common ancestors who only lived two to four thousand years ago, one tends to also have accidental matches at that amount of genetic distance.  In fact, it needs 67 markers to tell my brother’s real matches from his large number of accidental ones.  He is accidentally close to the modal haplotype of a very large clade.   At that amount of genetic distance, often not everyone even shares the same SNPs.   I don’t know if you’re talking about the Isles-Scottish haplotype or something different, but the Isles Scottish haplotype is easily distinguished and does not tend to have people with different SNPs who share it.
           
          Dora
           
           
          Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:01 AM
          Subject: [I-M223] Re: IslesIrish with question re results
           
           

           
          We have  8-10 Bryants in the project. All are genealogically proven to be related within 6-8 generations. Some do not show up as matches for each other because they have more mutations than allowed by FTDNA algorithms. I know there are other family DNA projects  reporting a higher mutation rate than incorporated into algorithms. Rebecca

        • stephenctimmis
          Rebecca, Thank you. It is very interesting how you well known genealogy can tell you approximately when mutations approximately occurred on your lines.
          Message 4 of 10 , May 1 12:08 PM
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            Rebecca,

            Thank you. It is very interesting how you well known genealogy can tell you approximately when mutations approximately occurred on your lines.

            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Rebecca Bryant <rebbry49@...> wrote:
            >
            > Stephen,
            > If you are interested in more details, you can look here: https://sites.google.com/site/bryantsofrockislandcreek/dna-results
            >
            > Rebecca
            >
          • stephenctimmis
            Hi Dora, it is good to hear from you again It is interesting that the Isles Scot group is such a robust group, but although few SNP s share the Haplotype in
            Message 5 of 10 , May 1 12:35 PM
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              Hi Dora, it is good to hear from you again

              It is interesting that the Isles Scot group is such a robust group, but although few SNP's share the Haplotype in question, I think Ken Nordvedt has done a good job of distinguishing strong groups that share the same SNP's - in the case of Isles Scot the SNP being L126, L137 and L369. This terminal SNP is shared by Isles Limbo, Isles Scot, Isles Scot Group 1, and Isles Irish.

              This almost certainly means that the SNP's that seperate them have not been discovered yet.

              Even though the basic Isles Scot group Haplotype is robust, there is still quite a lot of variation. Many have DYS393 = 14 instead of the modal 15. The Corbett name is associated with DYS464=14-14-15-15 rather than the modal 11-11-14-15. DYS389ii varies from 27 to 33 (modal = 29), and DYS449 varies from 25 to 31 (modal = 27).

              I genuinely think the future holds some interesting SNP discoveries for Isles Scot, and it is a shame that Geno2 has not been useful in this regard, even though it has proved wonderful elsewhere in M223.

              --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote:
              >
              > I don’t know what was the original question, or the group in question. Certainly it isn’t highly unusual to be able to track a family group across more genetic distance than Family Tree DNA allows. The 600+ year old Doolittle family has a genetic distance of 9, in R1b1a2, which tends to have more genetic variation than haplogroup I for any given time period. The AS121210 cluster, small and clearly all descended from a Germanic warrior or family thereof that fought with the Romans, judging from where they turn up, and lived around 300 AD, has a genetic distance of 10, and it’s a highly reliable cluster, easy to identify at 67 markers. The 600 year old Isles Scottish McKinstry family group has a maximum genetic distance of 6, but there are families from the same area with a genetic distance of 6 to 7.
              >
              > Now, one has to be careful, because in large haplogroups with large amounts of genetic variation from common ancestors who only lived two to four thousand years ago, one tends to also have accidental matches at that amount of genetic distance. In fact, it needs 67 markers to tell my brother’s real matches from his large number of accidental ones. He is accidentally close to the modal haplotype of a very large clade. At that amount of genetic distance, often not everyone even shares the same SNPs. I don’t know if you’re talking about the Isles-Scottish haplotype or something different, but the Isles Scottish haplotype is easily distinguished and does not tend to have people with different SNPs who share it.
              >
              > Dora
              >
              >
              > From: Rebecca Bryant
              > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:01 AM
              > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [I-M223] Re: IslesIrish with question re results
              >
              >
              >
              > We have 8-10 Bryants in the project. All are genealogically proven to be related within 6-8 generations. Some do not show up as matches for each other because they have more mutations than allowed by FTDNA algorithms. I know there are other family DNA projects reporting a higher mutation rate than incorporated into algorithms. Rebecca
              >
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