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Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111

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  • stephenctimmis
    Dear all, Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642 I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 31, 2013
      Dear all,

      Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642

      I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.

      Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)

      Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
    • stephenctimmis
      Dear Wayne, Aaron etc, My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted. Thanks for moving up and to I-L126
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 21, 2013
        Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,

        My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.

        Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.


        --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear all,
        >
        > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
        >
        > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
        >
        > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
        >
        > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
        >
      • Wayne Roberts
        Hello Stephen, Yes I have been watching them and when I saw you had the scarce DYS568 = 7, I moved you to Isles Limbo where a couple of other men have this
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 21, 2013
          Hello Stephen,
           
          Yes I have been watching them and when I saw you had the scarce DYS568 = 7, I moved you to Isles Limbo where a couple of other men have this 568=7 value. On further investigation I have found that apart from the McAlpine and Dyer, there are also Boone, Morris and possibly Edmonson that also have this DYS568=7. Not all are members of I-M223 Project.
           
          Best wishes
          Wayne
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:13 AM
          Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111

           

          Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,

          My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.

          Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.

          --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear all,
          >
          > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
          >
          > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
          >
          > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
          >
          > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
          >

        • stephenctimmis
          Hi Wayne, I did not know about Edmondson, so thanks for the heads-up on that. When I looked it seems they have only 37 Markers, so no proof of DYS568 = 7, but
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 22, 2013
            Hi Wayne,

            I did not know about Edmondson, so thanks for the heads-up on that. When I looked it seems they have only 37 Markers, so no proof of DYS568 = 7, but the haplotypes are tantilisingly promising.

            A while back I asked the Morris people to join the project, but they did not. It is a shame because the rarity means we need all the samples we can get to be able to say anything significant at all. Such is the problem of small populations generally.

            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Stephen,
            >
            > Yes I have been watching them and when I saw you had the scarce DYS568 = 7, I moved you to Isles Limbo where a couple of other men have this 568=7 value. On further investigation I have found that apart from the McAlpine and Dyer, there are also Boone, Morris and possibly Edmonson that also have this DYS568=7. Not all are members of I-M223 Project.
            >
            > Best wishes
            > Wayne
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: stephenctimmis
            > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:13 AM
            > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,
            >
            > My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.
            >
            > Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.
            >
            > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear all,
            > >
            > > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
            > >
            > > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
            > >
            > > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
            > >
            > > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
            > >
            >
          • Wayne Roberts
            Stephen, There is one Morris in the I-M223 Project but he has not tested out to 67 markers. There is also one of two Edmondson men that is a member but as you
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 22, 2013
              Stephen,
               
              There is one Morris in the I-M223 Project but he has not tested out to 67 markers. There is also one of two Edmondson men that is a member but as you said they have not tested out to 67 markers to confirm DYS568=7. Boone does have DYS568=7 but they have not joined this Project.
               
              If people are unable to upgrade markers they could test for only DYS568 which costs US$10 to order from FTDNA.
               
              Where I can, I will try and make contact with some of those and invite them to join the I-M223 Project.
               
              Wayne
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:00 AM
              Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111

               

              Hi Wayne,

              I did not know about Edmondson, so thanks for the heads-up on that. When I looked it seems they have only 37 Markers, so no proof of DYS568 = 7, but the haplotypes are tantilisingly promising.

              A while back I asked the Morris people to join the project, but they did not. It is a shame because the rarity means we need all the samples we can get to be able to say anything significant at all. Such is the problem of small populations generally.

              --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Stephen,
              >
              > Yes I have been watching them and when I saw you had the scarce DYS568 = 7, I moved you to Isles Limbo where a couple of other men have this 568=7 value. On further investigation I have found that apart from the McAlpine and Dyer, there are also Boone, Morris and possibly Edmonson that also have this DYS568=7. Not all are members of I-M223 Project.
              >
              > Best wishes
              > Wayne
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: stephenctimmis
              > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:13 AM
              > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,
              >
              > My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.
              >
              > Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.
              >
              > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear all,
              > >
              > > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
              > >
              > > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
              > >
              > > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
              > >
              > > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
              > >
              >

            • stephenctimmis
              Dear all, Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642 My upgrade to 111 STR markers is now complete. I think FTDNA did a pretty good job - I ordered the test on 30th
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 25, 2013
                Dear all,

                Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642

                My upgrade to 111 STR markers is now complete.

                I think FTDNA did a pretty good job - I ordered the test on 30th March, and all is completed by 25th April.

                --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,
                >
                > My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.
                >
                > Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.
                >
                >
                > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear all,
                > >
                > > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
                > >
                > > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
                > >
                > > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
                > >
                > > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
                > >
                >
              • Cheri Thompson
                Not so with me-- I ordered  Dec. 30th for 67 to 111 and am STILL waiting!  Something about having to go to the second vial. Cheri Hendrix Thompson
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 25, 2013
                  Not so with me-- I ordered  Dec. 30th for 67 to 111 and am STILL waiting!  Something about having to go to the second vial.
                  Cheri Hendrix Thompson

                  From: stephenctimmis <stephen@...>
                  To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:29 AM
                  Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
                   
                  Dear all,

                  Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642

                  My upgrade to 111 STR markers is now complete.

                  I think FTDNA did a pretty good job - I ordered the test on 30th March, and all is completed by 25th April.

                  --- In mailto:I-M223%40yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,
                  >
                  > My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.
                  >
                  > Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In mailto:I-M223%40yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear all,
                  > >
                  > > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
                  > >
                  > > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
                  > >
                  > > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
                  > >
                  > > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
                  > >
                  >

                • stephenctimmis
                  Sorry to hear that Cheri. Maybe I just got very lucky for once. I was thinking I was unlucky because I ordered my upgrade just before they decided to have
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 25, 2013
                    Sorry to hear that Cheri. Maybe I just got very lucky for once. I was thinking I was unlucky because I ordered my upgrade just before they decided to have another sale.

                    I hope you get your results soon. I have heard it possible they can request another set of cheek scrapings if all goes very wrong.

                    Fingers crossed the worst of the wait is over for you.

                    --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Cheri Thompson <cherithompson1946@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Not so with me-- I ordered  Dec. 30th for 67 to 111 and am STILL waiting!  Something about having to go to the second vial.
                    > Cheri Hendrix Thompson
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: stephenctimmis <stephen@...>
                    > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:29 AM
                    > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    > Dear all,
                    >
                    > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
                    >
                    > My upgrade to 111 STR markers is now complete.
                    >
                    > I think FTDNA did a pretty good job - I ordered the test on 30th March, and all is completed by 25th April.
                    >
                    > --- In mailto:I-M223%40yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,
                    > >
                    > > My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In mailto:I-M223%40yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Dear all,
                    > > >
                    > > > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
                    > > >
                    > > > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
                    > > >
                    > > > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
                    > > >
                    > > > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • stephenctimmis
                    The Boone family are very interesting because some of them exhibit the classic Isles Scot 11-11-14-15 at 464. Most Limbo types, so far found, are 11-14-15-15,
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 26, 2013
                      The Boone family are very interesting because some of them exhibit the classic Isles Scot 11-11-14-15 at 464. Most Limbo types, so far found, are 11-14-15-15, as are some of the Boones. This suggests to me that the mutation in 464 went 11-15-15-15 to 11-14-15-15 to 11-11-14-15. I think the last mutation was a double drop at 464b coupled with a single drop at 464c. It is a drop that must have occurred independently of the L126 Isles Scot group because it is a mutation that occurred after DYS568 dropped from 12 to 11 to 7. DYS568 = 7 seems to me to be another multi-drop mutation.

                      I think the implications of such multi-drops or massive deletions are major, in that the realisation of such drops (in one go)will lead to the necessity of re-dating all of the established clades. For instance, if a certain marker mutates at an average rate of 1 every 500 years, by modern statistical calculation, it will be assumed that a value of 10 is 1500 years in time from a value of 13. It may be possible to use such an average to calculate time distance from a clade back to Adam, but it cannot be used to calculate the time gap between clades established at more recent times.

                      The Boones with 464 = 11-11-14-15, without DYS568, will be assumed to be L126 - Isles Scot, because this mutation occurred on the Scot line, but DYS568 shows it also happened, independently, on the Limbo line, where DYS568 = 11 dropped to 7, with no corresponding, or indeed any, mutation taking place on the Scot line at 568. Also, according to Ken, all 568=7 are related, and therefore Limbo with 464 = 11-14-15-15 are more closely related to Limbo 464 = 11-11-14-15 than the latter are to the Scots instances of 11-11-14-15. This could mean that many who see themselves as one large clade may actually be several clades with the lacking evidence of differentiation.

                      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Stephen,
                      >
                      > There is one Morris in the I-M223 Project but he has not tested out to 67 markers. There is also one of two Edmondson men that is a member but as you said they have not tested out to 67 markers to confirm DYS568=7. Boone does have DYS568=7 but they have not joined this Project.
                      >
                      > If people are unable to upgrade markers they could test for only DYS568 which costs US$10 to order from FTDNA.
                      >
                      > Where I can, I will try and make contact with some of those and invite them to join the I-M223 Project.
                      >
                      > Wayne
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: stephenctimmis
                      > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:00 AM
                      > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Wayne,
                      >
                      > I did not know about Edmondson, so thanks for the heads-up on that. When I looked it seems they have only 37 Markers, so no proof of DYS568 = 7, but the haplotypes are tantilisingly promising.
                      >
                      > A while back I asked the Morris people to join the project, but they did not. It is a shame because the rarity means we need all the samples we can get to be able to say anything significant at all. Such is the problem of small populations generally.
                      >
                      > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Stephen,
                      > >
                      > > Yes I have been watching them and when I saw you had the scarce DYS568 = 7, I moved you to Isles Limbo where a couple of other men have this 568=7 value. On further investigation I have found that apart from the McAlpine and Dyer, there are also Boone, Morris and possibly Edmonson that also have this DYS568=7. Not all are members of I-M223 Project.
                      > >
                      > > Best wishes
                      > > Wayne
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: stephenctimmis
                      > > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:13 AM
                      > > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,
                      > >
                      > > My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.
                      > >
                      > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Dear all,
                      > > >
                      > > > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
                      > > >
                      > > > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
                      > > >
                      > > > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
                      > > >
                      > > > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • stephenctimmis
                      I also forgot to mention that Some Boones are DYS464 = 11-14-15-15 and some Boones are DYS464 = 11-11-14-15. However, it remains the case that they are all
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 26, 2013
                        I also forgot to mention that Some Boones are DYS464 = 11-14-15-15 and some Boones are DYS464 = 11-11-14-15. However, it remains the case that they are all Boones. This means that the differences between 11-14-15-15 and 11-11-14-15 have all occurred since the common introduction of surnames. Many think this occurred around 1300, but some like to push it back to 1000 for Irish and Scots. This means, in the British instances, that many of these differences could have occurred at the time of Norman influence on the Social and Economic make-up of the British Isles - and it is the Isles these clades seem to be associated with.

                        --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The Boone family are very interesting because some of them exhibit the classic Isles Scot 11-11-14-15 at 464. Most Limbo types, so far found, are 11-14-15-15, as are some of the Boones. This suggests to me that the mutation in 464 went 11-15-15-15 to 11-14-15-15 to 11-11-14-15. I think the last mutation was a double drop at 464b coupled with a single drop at 464c. It is a drop that must have occurred independently of the L126 Isles Scot group because it is a mutation that occurred after DYS568 dropped from 12 to 11 to 7. DYS568 = 7 seems to me to be another multi-drop mutation.
                        >
                        > I think the implications of such multi-drops or massive deletions are major, in that the realisation of such drops (in one go)will lead to the necessity of re-dating all of the established clades. For instance, if a certain marker mutates at an average rate of 1 every 500 years, by modern statistical calculation, it will be assumed that a value of 10 is 1500 years in time from a value of 13. It may be possible to use such an average to calculate time distance from a clade back to Adam, but it cannot be used to calculate the time gap between clades established at more recent times.
                        >
                        > The Boones with 464 = 11-11-14-15, without DYS568, will be assumed to be L126 - Isles Scot, because this mutation occurred on the Scot line, but DYS568 shows it also happened, independently, on the Limbo line, where DYS568 = 11 dropped to 7, with no corresponding, or indeed any, mutation taking place on the Scot line at 568. Also, according to Ken, all 568=7 are related, and therefore Limbo with 464 = 11-14-15-15 are more closely related to Limbo 464 = 11-11-14-15 than the latter are to the Scots instances of 11-11-14-15. This could mean that many who see themselves as one large clade may actually be several clades with the lacking evidence of differentiation.
                        >
                        > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Stephen,
                        > >
                        > > There is one Morris in the I-M223 Project but he has not tested out to 67 markers. There is also one of two Edmondson men that is a member but as you said they have not tested out to 67 markers to confirm DYS568=7. Boone does have DYS568=7 but they have not joined this Project.
                        > >
                        > > If people are unable to upgrade markers they could test for only DYS568 which costs US$10 to order from FTDNA.
                        > >
                        > > Where I can, I will try and make contact with some of those and invite them to join the I-M223 Project.
                        > >
                        > > Wayne
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: stephenctimmis
                        > > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:00 AM
                        > > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hi Wayne,
                        > >
                        > > I did not know about Edmondson, so thanks for the heads-up on that. When I looked it seems they have only 37 Markers, so no proof of DYS568 = 7, but the haplotypes are tantilisingly promising.
                        > >
                        > > A while back I asked the Morris people to join the project, but they did not. It is a shame because the rarity means we need all the samples we can get to be able to say anything significant at all. Such is the problem of small populations generally.
                        > >
                        > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello Stephen,
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes I have been watching them and when I saw you had the scarce DYS568 = 7, I moved you to Isles Limbo where a couple of other men have this 568=7 value. On further investigation I have found that apart from the McAlpine and Dyer, there are also Boone, Morris and possibly Edmonson that also have this DYS568=7. Not all are members of I-M223 Project.
                        > > >
                        > > > Best wishes
                        > > > Wayne
                        > > >
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: stephenctimmis
                        > > > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:13 AM
                        > > > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Just Ordered Upgrade 67-111
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear Wayne, Aaron etc,
                        > > >
                        > > > My upgrade results are starting to show up: So far Panel 5 (68-75) and panel 5 (94-102) are posted.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks for moving up and to I-L126 Limbo.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "stephenctimmis" <stephen@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Dear all,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Stephen Cyril Timmis - Kit No: 127642
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have, for the first time in years, some spare money and have finally managed to purchase an upgrade to 111 STR markers.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hopefully it will help Ken and the other smart people to start and build a better theory of the differention within the M284+ sector of the tree, and, at long last, Mr Dyer will have someone else in the Limbo section to compare himself against. :)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Good luck to all in their researches and Happy Easter
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
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