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Re: [I-M223] New SNP Tests

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  • Wayne Roberts
    Suzy, As Leo indicated the SNP CTS1858 is now available for ordering. This is downstream of CTS1977 and believed to be parallel to L1201 and P95 branches.
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 25 9:20 PM
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      Suzy,
       
      As Leo indicated the SNP CTS1858 is now available for ordering. This is downstream of CTS1977 and believed to be parallel to L1201 and P95 branches.
       
      CTS10057 and CTS10100 have also been added BUT anyone L801, Z76 or downstream are already positive for these so do not order these two. These have been ordered for Tanner who is believed to be Z161- according to someone else from his cluster not a Project member. Z161 has also been ordered for him to confirm this ancestral status. We know this cluster is CTS616+, CTS9183+, L623-, L147- and L701- with a DYS717=16. So Tanner could be in a new branch if Z161- is confirmed.
       
      What we don't know at present is which side of Z161 are CTS10057 and CTS10100. With both L623, L147 sector and L801, Z76 sector both derived for these two new SNPs, indications are that they are upstream of Z161 or just downstream. Tanner's results will be critical in determining if we have a new branch. It will be interesting for Jaafari also as he is ancestral for all current branch SNPs except CTS616 and CTS9183.
       
      Wayne
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Suzy
      Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:04 AM
      Subject: [I-M223] New SNP Tests

       


      and we are waiting on FTDNA to add CTS1858, CTS10057 and CTS10100 to the SNP order list.


      Will you post it on the list when these new SNP tests are available, please?  I am thinking of skipping CTS1977 and going straight to CTS1858, but I don't haunt the FTDNA site to watch for new tests.


      Thanks,


      Suzy Wert, Indianapolis
      .
      1.2.2.1.2.3- M223>...>Z161>L801, Z76* (Cont2b Group 5,640=13,578 =9,461=13,H4=11)



      -----Original Message-----
      From: I-M223 <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
      To: I-M223 <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 4:26 am
      Subject: [I-M223] Digest Number 348

      7 New Messages

      Digest #348

      Messages

      Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:48 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "hstyri" hstyri

      Kit 35845 Braun is indeed L1290 and L1317 derived, but at present there are no tests that confirms Ken Nordtvedt' s tree.

      I couldn't find a kit, Ken has looked as well and he didn't find one, and you write that you've looked for a kit as well. I guess a single test to connect the dots makes sense.

      Kit N76807 Arnold belongs toa different clade and it would be great if he considered upgrading to more STR markers.

      Regards,
      H. Styri

      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups. com, "euonymus77&qu ot; <euonymus77@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > I wrote that 1290+ implies Z183- based on Nordtvedt' s tree, but I can't find a kit whose tests confirm that L1290 is upstream of Z183, so my assertion might not be correct.
      >
      > I notice that Cont2a group 6 includes Arnett 35000, who tested L1290- and L1317-. This kit doesn't belong in a L1290+ group.
      >
      > Jim
      >
      > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups. com, "euonymus77&qu ot; <euonymus77@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > I just noticed that Braun 35845 tested L1290+, and is therefore Z183-. Braun and Johnson 16711 are currently both in Cont2a group 6 in the M223 project. This group should be removed from Cont2a and given a different name, since L1290+ implies Z183- (and the rest of Cont2a, Cont2b, and Cont1 is Z183+).
      > >
      > > Arnold N76807 is the only known Z183*.
      > >
      > > I think that after several months of uncertainty about the shape of the Z76 sector, this sector is ending up looking much like it did before we began getting Geno 2.0 results, with the main difference being that we now know that Cont2a is closer to Cont1 than to Cont2b. It would be useful at this point to define Cont2a as CTS6433+ and Cont2b as CTS1977+, and to reclassify any kits or groups that have different SNP results.
      > >
      > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups. com, "hstyri" <styri@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Kit 35845 Braun should consider ordering Z183 if he hasn't ordered it yet. He's tested 111 STR.
      > > >
      > > > Hopefully kit N76807 Arnold will consider upgrading his STR markers. The tree is growing a new branch.
      > > >
      > > > Regards,
      > > > H. Styri
      > > >
      > > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups. com, "euonymus77&qu ot; <euonymus77@ > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I should add that two kits have tested negative for both CTS1977 and CTS6433 (N76807 Arnold, 35845 Braun). Braun has 12 at DYS513.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

      Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:31 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

      Jim,

      I'm one of the CTS6433+ you listed with 12 at DYS513. Does this mean that
      Continental 2a should be split into something like Cont2a1 and Cont2a2?
      Also, I have noticed that my Y-DNA Matches, who are false-positives, are in
      Continental 1.

      Regards,

      Mike Anthony
      Kit #18187
      I-M223, CTS6433*
      (Cont2a, generic)(Basic Cont-2)

      Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:02 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

      Wayne,

      I can see the question on the Cont 2a split is half solved.
      The Results page shows:
      1.2.2.1.1.3- L1317 (Cont2a)
      1.2.1.1.1.3. 1- L1290 (Cont2a Group 6/511=10)

      The Colorized page shows: 1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>L1317> L1290
      (ContX1 511=10) - test L1290, L1317 MIN 1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801,
      Z76>L1317> L1290 (ContX1 511=10) - test L1290, L1317 MIN
      1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>L1317> L1290 (ContX1 511=10) - test
      L1290, L1317 MIN
      1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>L1317> L1290 (ContX1 511=10)

      Perhaps the Results page could be updated to show the change, which is
      shown better on the Colorized page since we no longer have a Group 6 in Cont
      2a. Having two different Cont2a groups (some L1317+, L1290+, some L1317-,
      L1290-) has been a little schizophrenic.

      Mike Anthony
      Kit #18187
      I-M223, CTS6433*
      (Cont2a, generic)(Basic Cont-2)

      Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:30 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

      "euonymus77" euonymus77

      Mike,

      I meant that as new SNP results give us a better understanding of the genealogical relationships between different clades, clade names and definitions should be updated to reflect these results. I think that it's about time to replace the Cont2a/Cont2b division with a CTS6433*/CTS1977+ division. We can keep the old labels and redefine them (e.g. Cont2a=CTS6433* and Cont2b=CTS1977+ ), or we can drop the old names and replace them with SNP labels.

      Frankly, I don't know what defines the difference between Cont2a and Cont2b. Nordtvedt' s modalities chart doesn't define Cont2b, and he seems to have dropped the category Cont2a altogether.

      It's too bad that these new SNPs have such long names. "I-CTS6433* " is a mouthful. We can hope that a WTY will find a defining SNP for Cont2a and give it a shorter name!

      Jim

      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups. com, manth43470@. .. wrote:
      >
      > Jim,
      >
      > I'm one of the CTS6433+ you listed with 12 at DYS513. Does this mean that
      > Continental 2a should be split into something like Cont2a1 and Cont2a2?
      > Also, I have noticed that my Y-DNA Matches, who are false-positives, are in
      > Continental 1.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Mike Anthony
      > Kit #18187
      > I-M223, CTS6433*
      > (Cont2a, generic)(Basic Cont-2)
      >

      Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:11 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

      "Wayne Roberts" wayner4031

      Hello Mike, Jim, et al,

      I am aware of problems in the number coding for the groups such as two groups having 1.2.2.1.1 and that the coding on the Results page does not match the coding on the Coloured Results spreadsheet. I have advised Aaron and of course he reads this list.

      I see he has already moved P95 downstream of CTS1977 and changes to Cont2b.

      It is still early days with more CTS1977 and CTS6433 results due in next week or so. We have several new branches/groups to consider and we are waiting on FTDNA to add CTS1858, CTS10057 and CTS10100 to the SNP order list. We also have Geno 2.0 results due soon for Middlemiss in M223* C1719 cluster. The M223* Webb cluster is awaiting CTS616 and CTS9183 results. We also have a new DYS717=16 branch upstream or parallel to Z161 awaiting SNP results. We also need to determine which side of Z183 are L1290, L1317 located. Further down the tree in Z171 sector, it would seem Z185 and L1198 are phyloequivalent (and possibly Z166, Z180 and Z187), all of which need to be sorted out.

      I have also proposed removing Roots Group 3 as it has become irrelevant after members tested Z2054 and found to belong to other Roots groups.

      We welcome your observations, comments and recommendations and ask for your patience while the I-M223 tree is restructured.

      We encourage members to test recommended SNPs so they can be better placed in groups in a restructured tree.

      Finally welcome to new members of the Project and to this discussion list. New Project members go into the "Ungrouped&quo t; category until their markers have been analysed and then if possible they will be placed into a Group category. Recommended STR marker upgrades and SNP tests are listed at the end of their Group category. Beware some lines have been cut short but the character limit for this row. If in dout, please ask and please do NOT order FTDNA's Deep Clade test or their recommended SNPs or Geno 2.0 without checking with this Project' s administrators first.

      Thanks
      Wayne

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: manth43470@aol. com
      To: I-M223@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 9:02 AM
      Subject: [I-M223] Re: Possible STR marker for CTS6433 / CTS1977 split (Z183, Cont 1 & 2)

      Wayne,

      I can see the question on the Cont 2a split is half solved.
      The Results page shows:
      1.2.2.1.1.3- L1317 (Cont2a)
      1.2.1.1.1.3. 1- L1290 (Cont2a Group 6/511=10)

      The Colorized page shows: 1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>L1317> L1290 (ContX1 511=10) - test L1290, L1317
      MIN
      1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>L1317> L1290 (ContX1 511=10) - test L1290, L1317
      MIN

      1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>L1317> L1290 (ContX1 511=10) - test L1290, L1317
      MIN

      1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>L1317> L1290 (ContX1 511=10)

      Perhaps the Results page could be updated to show the change, which is shown better on the Colorized page since we no longer have a Group 6 in Cont 2a. Having two different Cont2a groups (some L1317+, L1290+, some L1317-, L1290-) has been a little schizophrenic.

      Mike Anthony
      Kit #18187
      I-M223, CTS6433*
      (Cont2a, generic)(Basic Cont-2)

      Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:41 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "kevin.latendresse" kevin.latendresse


      I am #227692 Latendresse 1.2.2.1.1- M223>...> L801, Z76>Z183> CTS6433* (Cont2a) - test CTS6433, CTS1977

      I'd like confirmation that I could potentially be better categorized if I take tests CTS6433 and CTS1977.

      Thanks,
      Kevin

      Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:02 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

      "david_kyle@..." david_kyle@...

      Hello out there, I am new to this group;
      kit #240543, Surname STEWART.
      I am I2b1c M223 P78.
      Any Stewarts out there?
      I line back to Charles Stewart 1690-1750 + Mary Proctor 1710-1773 in Spotsylvania, VA.
      Does anyone know, with documentation, Charles' parents?
      I'm stuck there.
      ALSO, my kit was dropped in FF Upgrade and still is not back... anyone else?
      David Kyle, adopted, Stewart birth surname.

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