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Re: [I-M223] Re: updated tree... Foundations of I-M223 Haplogroup shaken (CTS616 and CTS9183)

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  • Wilson, Eric
    Hello Aaron, et al; I ll be one of your L701+ subjects. I ve ordered a full Geno 2.0 kt. Cheers; E! ... -- Cheers; E!
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 8, 2013
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      Hello Aaron, et al;

      I'll be one of your L701+ subjects.  I've ordered a full Geno 2.0 kt.


      Cheers;

      E!



      On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:21 PM, sallfertorr <sallfertorr@...> wrote:
       

      Hello, all

      Following the recent developments in the I-M223 tree, here is how the I-M223 Haplogroup is currently structured:

      http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?section=results

      At the moment we have two main branches: one that leads to L1228 and another, which leads to CTS616, CTS9183.

      It remains to be seen whether this proposed structure is 100% accurate (M284 Bradford has been reported to be CTS616+, we have to see if he is CTS9183+ as well; and we need CTS616, CTS9183 results for the L701,L702 group).

      I've implemented these changes to our Y-STR results page also:

      http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?vgroup=M223-Y-Clan&section=yresults

      These are exciting times!

      Thanks,
      Aaron Torres

      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
      >
      > Hello, Robert and Wayne
      >
      > The discovery of these two SNP's shakes the foundations of the I-M223 Haplogroup. As you know, until now we had believed that Roots and I2b1-X were somehow related - not anymore, as the new SNP's prove that I2b1-X is even more ancient than we had imagined. So answering your question, it is not necessary to test Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100 for now.
      >
      > I have been in contact with Astrid Krahn, who says CTS6433 and CTS1977 (relevant to Cont2a, Cont2b, Cont2to1 and Cont1-X) will be added to the FT DNA catalog in the next couple weeks. I have already added CTS616 and CTS9183 to my list of requests - it is important that Isles, L701/L702 and I-M223* individuals test these SNP's. We also need to be able to repeat these results within I2b1-X (L1228+), just to double-check what we've gotten.
      >
      > I will update our tree shortly to reflect this new structure.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Aaron Torres
      >
      > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks Robert. Yes Ken is quick off the mark. But then he is in a cold snowy area of the USA while Aaron in Brazil and me in Australia are definitely not snowed in, haha. I was at the beach today (Saturday) with family.
      > >
      > > As for these two new upstream SNPs, Project members will have to ask FTDNA to add them to their order list. So send those emails in.
      > >
      > > I will leave Aaron to answer your question about Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100. But please bear in mind that none of the Z2054-Z2101 series were included in Geno 2.0 so there will be no result for any of them in people's Geno results. The only possibility is if some of the other SNPs are phyloequivalent to any of those, but then these should show when comparing a Roots person to any others in I-M223 and that hasn't really shown up.
      > >
      > > It will be interesting when other Geno 2.0 results become available as well as the two WTY results over the next month or so.
      > >
      > > Wayne
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: rob919ert
      > > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:21 PM
      > > Subject: [I-M223] updated "Tree for M223 x Z161" by Ken Nordtvedt
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi all,
      > >
      > > as mentioned before I received finally my GENO 2.0 results. The comma separated file with all the discovered snp-values was then sent to Aaron, Wayne and Ken.
      > > A few hours later (in the middle of the night here in Europe) Ken had already studied my results and replied as follows:
      > > "A very interesting result from the Hofstee raw data file! Triangulation between it and Roots and Cont-2 yields two new snps for which Hofstee is ancestral while Roots and Cont-2 are both derived.
      > > CTS616
      > > CTS9183
      > > This will allow some node ordering way upstream in M223 sector: there must be first a node where L1228 branch line separates from another branch line which leads at least to both Z161 and L1229
      > > There are no new snps on the L1228/L1227 branch line, but we should not have expected any, realistically.
      > > I will of course go back and double check this all, since it is so interesting on upstream M223 tree structure.
      > > Kenneth Nordtvedt"
      > > Again an hour later Ken sent the following message:
      > > "The updated "Tree for M223xZ161" shows how these two snps start to organize M223's most upstream node structure. To complete this we need Geno 2 results for a M284+ person and a L701+ person and maybe even the Webb family.
      > >
      > > Or we need snps like CTS616 and CTS 9183 to appear in the FTDNA catalog for testing by people in all the sectors. FTDNA is being very coy about whether they will take snps from the Geno 2 that prove interesting and put them into their catalogs.
      > >
      > > Kenneth Nordtvedt "
      > > Therefore I would suggest to all members to check Ken' s new M223 x Z161 Sector Tree dated 4 January 2013.
      > >
      > > A question to Aaron: : I guess that testing the four untested SNP's (Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100) is not necessary anymore?
      > >
      > >
      > > best regards,
      > > Robert
      > >
      >




      --
       
      Cheers;
       
      E!
       
    • sallfertorr
      That is great news, Eric! Thanks, Aaron Torres
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 12, 2013
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        That is great news, Eric!

        Thanks,
        Aaron Torres

        --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wilson, Eric" wrote:
        >
        > Hello Aaron, et al;
        >
        > I'll be one of your L701+ subjects. I've ordered a full Geno 2.0 kt.
        >
        >
        > Cheers;
        >
        > E!
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:21 PM, sallfertorr wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Hello, all
        > >
        > > Following the recent developments in the I-M223 tree, here is how the
        > > I-M223 Haplogroup is currently structured:
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?section=results
        > >
        > > At the moment we have two main branches: one that leads to L1228 and
        > > another, which leads to CTS616, CTS9183.
        > >
        > > It remains to be seen whether this proposed structure is 100% accurate
        > > (M284 Bradford has been reported to be CTS616+, we have to see if he is
        > > CTS9183+ as well; and we need CTS616, CTS9183 results for the L701,L702
        > > group).
        > >
        > > I've implemented these changes to our Y-STR results page also:
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?vgroup=M223-Y-Clan%c2%a7ion=yresults
        > >
        > > These are exciting times!
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > > Aaron Torres
        > >
        > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello, Robert and Wayne
        > > >
        > > > The discovery of these two SNP's shakes the foundations of the I-M223
        > > Haplogroup. As you know, until now we had believed that Roots and I2b1-X
        > > were somehow related - not anymore, as the new SNP's prove that I2b1-X is
        > > even more ancient than we had imagined. So answering your question, it is
        > > not necessary to test Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100 for now.
        > > >
        > > > I have been in contact with Astrid Krahn, who says CTS6433 and CTS1977
        > > (relevant to Cont2a, Cont2b, Cont2to1 and Cont1-X) will be added to the FT
        > > DNA catalog in the next couple weeks. I have already added CTS616 and
        > > CTS9183 to my list of requests - it is important that Isles, L701/L702 and
        > > I-M223* individuals test these SNP's. We also need to be able to repeat
        > > these results within I2b1-X (L1228+), just to double-check what we've
        > > gotten.
        > > >
        > > > I will update our tree shortly to reflect this new structure.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks,
        > > > Aaron Torres
        > > >
        > > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks Robert. Yes Ken is quick off the mark. But then he is in a cold
        > > snowy area of the USA while Aaron in Brazil and me in Australia are
        > > definitely not snowed in, haha. I was at the beach today (Saturday) with
        > > family.
        > > > >
        > > > > As for these two new upstream SNPs, Project members will have to ask
        > > FTDNA to add them to their order list. So send those emails in.
        > > > >
        > > > > I will leave Aaron to answer your question about Z2091, Z2094, Z2095
        > > and Z2100. But please bear in mind that none of the Z2054-Z2101 series were
        > > included in Geno 2.0 so there will be no result for any of them in people's
        > > Geno results. The only possibility is if some of the other SNPs are
        > > phyloequivalent to any of those, but then these should show when comparing
        > > a Roots person to any others in I-M223 and that hasn't really shown up.
        > > > >
        > > > > It will be interesting when other Geno 2.0 results become available as
        > > well as the two WTY results over the next month or so.
        > > > >
        > > > > Wayne
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > > From: rob919ert
        > > > > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:21 PM
        > > > > Subject: [I-M223] updated "Tree for M223 x Z161" by Ken Nordtvedt
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi all,
        > > > >
        > > > > as mentioned before I received finally my GENO 2.0 results. The comma
        > > separated file with all the discovered snp-values was then sent to Aaron,
        > > Wayne and Ken.
        > > > > A few hours later (in the middle of the night here in Europe) Ken had
        > > already studied my results and replied as follows:
        > > > > "A very interesting result from the Hofstee raw data file!
        > > Triangulation between it and Roots and Cont-2 yields two new snps for which
        > > Hofstee is ancestral while Roots and Cont-2 are both derived.
        > > > > CTS616
        > > > > CTS9183
        > > > > This will allow some node ordering way upstream in M223 sector: there
        > > must be first a node where L1228 branch line separates from another branch
        > > line which leads at least to both Z161 and L1229
        > > > > There are no new snps on the L1228/L1227 branch line, but we should
        > > not have expected any, realistically.
        > > > > I will of course go back and double check this all, since it is so
        > > interesting on upstream M223 tree structure.
        > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt"
        > > > > Again an hour later Ken sent the following message:
        > > > > "The updated "Tree for M223xZ161" shows how these two snps start to
        > > organize M223's most upstream node structure. To complete this we need Geno
        > > 2 results for a M284+ person and a L701+ person and maybe even the Webb
        > > family.
        > > > >
        > > > > Or we need snps like CTS616 and CTS 9183 to appear in the FTDNA
        > > catalog for testing by people in all the sectors. FTDNA is being very coy
        > > about whether they will take snps from the Geno 2 that prove interesting
        > > and put them into their catalogs.
        > > > >
        > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt "
        > > > > Therefore I would suggest to all members to check Ken' s new M223 x
        > > Z161 Sector Tree dated 4 January 2013.
        > > > >
        > > > > A question to Aaron: : I guess that testing the four untested SNP's
        > > (Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100) is not necessary anymore?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > best regards,
        > > > > Robert
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        >
        > Cheers;
        >
        > E!
        >
      • Immel
        Aaron, I am currently shown as I2a2a3a2a and am L1198+. Are there additional SNPs I should test for? As a note, I am about to receive my Geno 2.0 results and
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 12, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Aaron,

          I am currently shown as I2a2a3a2a and am L1198+. Are there additional SNPs I should test for?

          As a note, I am about to receive my Geno 2.0 results and have completed the WTY last year.

          Regards,

          Martin Sewell
          FTDNA Kit 22066


          Skype: +44 1865589924

          On Jan 12, 2013, at 20:17, "sallfertorr" <sallfertorr@...> wrote:

           

          That is great news, Eric!

          Thanks,
          Aaron Torres

          --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wilson, Eric" wrote:
          >
          > Hello Aaron, et al;
          >
          > I'll be one of your L701+ subjects. I've ordered a full Geno 2.0 kt.
          >
          >
          > Cheers;
          >
          > E!
          >
          >
          >
          > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:21 PM, sallfertorr wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello, all
          > >
          > > Following the recent developments in the I-M223 tree, here is how the
          > > I-M223 Haplogroup is currently structured:
          > >
          > >
          > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?section=results
          > >
          > > At the moment we have two main branches: one that leads to L1228 and
          > > another, which leads to CTS616, CTS9183.
          > >
          > > It remains to be seen whether this proposed structure is 100% accurate
          > > (M284 Bradford has been reported to be CTS616+, we have to see if he is
          > > CTS9183+ as well; and we need CTS616, CTS9183 results for the L701,L702
          > > group).
          > >
          > > I've implemented these changes to our Y-STR results page also:
          > >
          > >
          > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?vgroup=M223-Y-Clan§ion=yresults
          > >
          > > These are exciting times!
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > Aaron Torres
          > >
          > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello, Robert and Wayne
          > > >
          > > > The discovery of these two SNP's shakes the foundations of the I-M223
          > > Haplogroup. As you know, until now we had believed that Roots and I2b1-X
          > > were somehow related - not anymore, as the new SNP's prove that I2b1-X is
          > > even more ancient than we had imagined. So answering your question, it is
          > > not necessary to test Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100 for now.
          > > >
          > > > I have been in contact with Astrid Krahn, who says CTS6433 and CTS1977
          > > (relevant to Cont2a, Cont2b, Cont2to1 and Cont1-X) will be added to the FT
          > > DNA catalog in the next couple weeks. I have already added CTS616 and
          > > CTS9183 to my list of requests - it is important that Isles, L701/L702 and
          > > I-M223* individuals test these SNP's. We also need to be able to repeat
          > > these results within I2b1-X (L1228+), just to double-check what we've
          > > gotten.
          > > >
          > > > I will update our tree shortly to reflect this new structure.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks,
          > > > Aaron Torres
          > > >
          > > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks Robert. Yes Ken is quick off the mark. But then he is in a cold
          > > snowy area of the USA while Aaron in Brazil and me in Australia are
          > > definitely not snowed in, haha. I was at the beach today (Saturday) with
          > > family.
          > > > >
          > > > > As for these two new upstream SNPs, Project members will have to ask
          > > FTDNA to add them to their order list. So send those emails in.
          > > > >
          > > > > I will leave Aaron to answer your question about Z2091, Z2094, Z2095
          > > and Z2100. But please bear in mind that none of the Z2054-Z2101 series were
          > > included in Geno 2.0 so there will be no result for any of them in people's
          > > Geno results. The only possibility is if some of the other SNPs are
          > > phyloequivalent to any of those, but then these should show when comparing
          > > a Roots person to any others in I-M223 and that hasn't really shown up.
          > > > >
          > > > > It will be interesting when other Geno 2.0 results become available as
          > > well as the two WTY results over the next month or so.
          > > > >
          > > > > Wayne
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: rob919ert
          > > > > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:21 PM
          > > > > Subject: [I-M223] updated "Tree for M223 x Z161" by Ken Nordtvedt
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi all,
          > > > >
          > > > > as mentioned before I received finally my GENO 2.0 results. The comma
          > > separated file with all the discovered snp-values was then sent to Aaron,
          > > Wayne and Ken.
          > > > > A few hours later (in the middle of the night here in Europe) Ken had
          > > already studied my results and replied as follows:
          > > > > "A very interesting result from the Hofstee raw data file!
          > > Triangulation between it and Roots and Cont-2 yields two new snps for which
          > > Hofstee is ancestral while Roots and Cont-2 are both derived.
          > > > > CTS616
          > > > > CTS9183
          > > > > This will allow some node ordering way upstream in M223 sector: there
          > > must be first a node where L1228 branch line separates from another branch
          > > line which leads at least to both Z161 and L1229
          > > > > There are no new snps on the L1228/L1227 branch line, but we should
          > > not have expected any, realistically.
          > > > > I will of course go back and double check this all, since it is so
          > > interesting on upstream M223 tree structure.
          > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt"
          > > > > Again an hour later Ken sent the following message:
          > > > > "The updated "Tree for M223xZ161" shows how these two snps start to
          > > organize M223's most upstream node structure. To complete this we need Geno
          > > 2 results for a M284+ person and a L701+ person and maybe even the Webb
          > > family.
          > > > >
          > > > > Or we need snps like CTS616 and CTS 9183 to appear in the FTDNA
          > > catalog for testing by people in all the sectors. FTDNA is being very coy
          > > about whether they will take snps from the Geno 2 that prove interesting
          > > and put them into their catalogs.
          > > > >
          > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt "
          > > > > Therefore I would suggest to all members to check Ken' s new M223 x
          > > Z161 Sector Tree dated 4 January 2013.
          > > > >
          > > > > A question to Aaron: : I guess that testing the four untested SNP's
          > > (Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100) is not necessary anymore?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > best regards,
          > > > > Robert
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          > Cheers;
          >
          > E!
          >

        • sallfertorr
          Hello, Immel There are no new SNP s for you at the moment. Thank you, Aaron Torres
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 14, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello, Immel

            There are no new SNP's for you at the moment.

            Thank you,
            Aaron Torres

            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Immel wrote:
            >
            > Aaron,
            >
            > I am currently shown as I2a2a3a2a and am L1198+. Are there additional SNPs I should test for?
            >
            > As a note, I am about to receive my Geno 2.0 results and have completed the WTY last year.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Martin Sewell
            > FTDNA Kit 22066
            >
            >
            > Skype: +44 1865589924
            >
            > On Jan 12, 2013, at 20:17, "sallfertorr" wrote:
            >
            > > That is great news, Eric!
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > > Aaron Torres
            > >
            > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wilson, Eric" wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Aaron, et al;
            > > >
            > > > I'll be one of your L701+ subjects. I've ordered a full Geno 2.0 kt.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Cheers;
            > > >
            > > > E!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:21 PM, sallfertorr wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > **
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hello, all
            > > > >
            > > > > Following the recent developments in the I-M223 tree, here is how the
            > > > > I-M223 Haplogroup is currently structured:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?section=results
            > > > >
            > > > > At the moment we have two main branches: one that leads to L1228 and
            > > > > another, which leads to CTS616, CTS9183.
            > > > >
            > > > > It remains to be seen whether this proposed structure is 100% accurate
            > > > > (M284 Bradford has been reported to be CTS616+, we have to see if he is
            > > > > CTS9183+ as well; and we need CTS616, CTS9183 results for the L701,L702
            > > > > group).
            > > > >
            > > > > I've implemented these changes to our Y-STR results page also:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?vgroup=M223-Y-Clan%c3%82%c2%a7ion=yresults
            > > > >
            > > > > These are exciting times!
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks,
            > > > > Aaron Torres
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hello, Robert and Wayne
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The discovery of these two SNP's shakes the foundations of the I-M223
            > > > > Haplogroup. As you know, until now we had believed that Roots and I2b1-X
            > > > > were somehow related - not anymore, as the new SNP's prove that I2b1-X is
            > > > > even more ancient than we had imagined. So answering your question, it is
            > > > > not necessary to test Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100 for now.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I have been in contact with Astrid Krahn, who says CTS6433 and CTS1977
            > > > > (relevant to Cont2a, Cont2b, Cont2to1 and Cont1-X) will be added to the FT
            > > > > DNA catalog in the next couple weeks. I have already added CTS616 and
            > > > > CTS9183 to my list of requests - it is important that Isles, L701/L702 and
            > > > > I-M223* individuals test these SNP's. We also need to be able to repeat
            > > > > these results within I2b1-X (L1228+), just to double-check what we've
            > > > > gotten.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I will update our tree shortly to reflect this new structure.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thanks,
            > > > > > Aaron Torres
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Thanks Robert. Yes Ken is quick off the mark. But then he is in a cold
            > > > > snowy area of the USA while Aaron in Brazil and me in Australia are
            > > > > definitely not snowed in, haha. I was at the beach today (Saturday) with
            > > > > family.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > As for these two new upstream SNPs, Project members will have to ask
            > > > > FTDNA to add them to their order list. So send those emails in.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I will leave Aaron to answer your question about Z2091, Z2094, Z2095
            > > > > and Z2100. But please bear in mind that none of the Z2054-Z2101 series were
            > > > > included in Geno 2.0 so there will be no result for any of them in people's
            > > > > Geno results. The only possibility is if some of the other SNPs are
            > > > > phyloequivalent to any of those, but then these should show when comparing
            > > > > a Roots person to any others in I-M223 and that hasn't really shown up.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > It will be interesting when other Geno 2.0 results become available as
            > > > > well as the two WTY results over the next month or so.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Wayne
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > > > > From: rob919ert
            > > > > > > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:21 PM
            > > > > > > Subject: [I-M223] updated "Tree for M223 x Z161" by Ken Nordtvedt
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hi all,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > as mentioned before I received finally my GENO 2.0 results. The comma
            > > > > separated file with all the discovered snp-values was then sent to Aaron,
            > > > > Wayne and Ken.
            > > > > > > A few hours later (in the middle of the night here in Europe) Ken had
            > > > > already studied my results and replied as follows:
            > > > > > > "A very interesting result from the Hofstee raw data file!
            > > > > Triangulation between it and Roots and Cont-2 yields two new snps for which
            > > > > Hofstee is ancestral while Roots and Cont-2 are both derived.
            > > > > > > CTS616
            > > > > > > CTS9183
            > > > > > > This will allow some node ordering way upstream in M223 sector: there
            > > > > must be first a node where L1228 branch line separates from another branch
            > > > > line which leads at least to both Z161 and L1229
            > > > > > > There are no new snps on the L1228/L1227 branch line, but we should
            > > > > not have expected any, realistically.
            > > > > > > I will of course go back and double check this all, since it is so
            > > > > interesting on upstream M223 tree structure.
            > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt"
            > > > > > > Again an hour later Ken sent the following message:
            > > > > > > "The updated "Tree for M223xZ161" shows how these two snps start to
            > > > > organize M223's most upstream node structure. To complete this we need Geno
            > > > > 2 results for a M284+ person and a L701+ person and maybe even the Webb
            > > > > family.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Or we need snps like CTS616 and CTS 9183 to appear in the FTDNA
            > > > > catalog for testing by people in all the sectors. FTDNA is being very coy
            > > > > about whether they will take snps from the Geno 2 that prove interesting
            > > > > and put them into their catalogs.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt "
            > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest to all members to check Ken' s new M223 x
            > > > > Z161 Sector Tree dated 4 January 2013.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > A question to Aaron: : I guess that testing the four untested SNP's
            > > > > (Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100) is not necessary anymore?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > best regards,
            > > > > > > Robert
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > >
            > > > Cheers;
            > > >
            > > > E!
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Alan Ferguson
            How to update the data bases with Kittler results? Kit Number Name Paternal Ancestor Name Country Haplo group DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19 DYS 391 DYS385 DYS 426
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 14, 2013
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              How to update the data bases with Kittler results?

              Kit Number Name Paternal Ancestor Name         Country  Haplo group                                                                              DYS 393   DYS 390   DYS 19   DYS 391   DYS385   DYS 426
              >1.2.1.2.1.1- M223>CTS616,CTS9183>L1229>L1230 (Roots Group 2a1 - R9-14b/446=9, 531=11. 437=14) - 111          
              >79478 Griffin Edward Griffin, b. abt. 1602 d. aft. 1698 United Kingdom I2b1                                                                          13                23         15             11             15-16        11
              >N19514 Griffin Edward Griffin, b. abt. 1602 d. aft. 1698 United Kingdom I2b1                                                                       13                23          15            11              15-16        11
              >48274 Griffin Edward Griffin, b. abt. 1602 d. aft. 1698 United Kingdom I2b1                                                                           13               23          15             11            15-16         11
              >159685 Ferguson John Ferguson, 1812-1890, NY          Unknown Origin    I2b1                                                                    13              23           15            11             15-16         11
              >7617 Worth Worth, origin England.                    England           I2b1                                                                                             14               23           15            10              15-16        11
              >-----          
              >Ferguson (kit 159685 had the Kilter test run and the results for DYS385 were 16-15.          
              >Can you make the change for me, or do I need to ask FTDNA to make the change, or do I manually make the change to my recorded data?          
                        
              >-----          
              >FTDNA Y-DNA - Advanced Y-STR Markers          
              >          
              >The Y-DNA - Advanced Y-STR Results page shows advanced Y-DNA STR test results.          
              >Y-STR DNA Panel - Kittler          
              > Marker DYS385a/b (K)        
              > Value 16-15  

              Thanks, Alan Ferguson      
              -----

              -----Original Message-----
              From: sallfertorr
              Sent: Jan 14, 2013 7:51 AM
              To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [I-M223] Re: updated tree... Foundations of I-M223 Haplogroup shaken (CTS616 and CTS9183)

               

              Hello, Immel

              There are no new SNP's for you at the moment.

              Thank you,
              Aaron Torres


            • Wayne Roberts
              Aaron, I saw on our I-M223 tree you had L319 that showed up in a WTY, so have added that category to the STR Results page. Wayne
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                Aaron,
                 
                I saw on our I-M223 tree you had L319 that showed up in a WTY, so have added that category to the STR Results page.
                 
                Wayne
              • joaobraz_2000
                Hi Immel and Aaron, If Immel is I2a2a3a2a (L1198+), shouldn t he test for Z190 or Z79 to see if he is I2a2a3a2a*, I2a2a3a2a1, I2a2a3a2a1* or I2a2a3a2a1a? Or am
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                  Hi Immel and Aaron,

                  If Immel is I2a2a3a2a (L1198+), shouldn't he test for Z190 or Z79 to see if he is I2a2a3a2a*, I2a2a3a2a1, I2a2a3a2a1* or I2a2a3a2a1a? Or am I reading the tree the wrong way? Thanks!

                  Best,
                  JOAO
                  kit 260237 (possibly I2a2a3a2a)



                  --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello, Immel
                  >
                  > There are no new SNP's for you at the moment.
                  >
                  > Thank you,
                  > Aaron Torres
                  >
                  > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Immel wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Aaron,
                  > >
                  > > I am currently shown as I2a2a3a2a and am L1198+. Are there additional SNPs I should test for?
                  > >
                  > > As a note, I am about to receive my Geno 2.0 results and have completed the WTY last year.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > >
                  > > Martin Sewell
                  > > FTDNA Kit 22066
                  > >
                • Wayne Roberts
                  Hello Joao, Martin (Immel) has already tested for Z190 and Z79. He is Z190+ and Z79-. He is in the right listing at present on the Project STR results page as
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                    Hello Joao,
                     
                    Martin (Immel) has already tested for Z190 and Z79. He is Z190+ and Z79-.
                     
                    He is in the right listing at present on the Project STR results page as Cont 1c.
                     
                    In the ISOGG tree for Haplogroup I he would be I2a2a3a2a1 (I-Z190) with the possibility of I2a2a3a2a1* (I-Z190*).
                     
                    Wayne
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:20 AM
                    Subject: [I-M223] Re: updated tree... Foundations of I-M223 Haplogroup shaken (CTS616 and CTS9183)

                     

                    Hi Immel and Aaron,

                    If Immel is I2a2a3a2a (L1198+), shouldn't he test for Z190 or Z79 to see if he is I2a2a3a2a*, I2a2a3a2a1, I2a2a3a2a1* or I2a2a3a2a1a? Or am I reading the tree the wrong way? Thanks!

                    Best,
                    JOAO
                    kit 260237 (possibly I2a2a3a2a)

                    --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello, Immel
                    >
                    > There are no new SNP's for you at the moment.
                    >
                    > Thank you,
                    > Aaron Torres
                    >
                    > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Immel wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Aaron,
                    > >
                    > > I am currently shown as I2a2a3a2a and am L1198+. Are there additional SNPs I should test for?
                    > >
                    > > As a note, I am about to receive my Geno 2.0 results and have completed the WTY last year.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > >
                    > > Martin Sewell
                    > > FTDNA Kit 22066
                    > >

                  • Immel
                    Hey, Joao, I have tested for both Z190 and Z79 and was positive for Z190 and negative for Z79. I, too, am having trouble reading the tree. Immel Skype: +44
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                      Hey, Joao,

                      I have tested for both Z190 and Z79 and was positive for Z190 and negative for Z79.

                      I, too, am having trouble reading the tree.

                      Immel

                      Skype: +44 1865589924

                      On Jan 15, 2013, at 20:20, "joaobraz_2000" <joaobraz_2000@...> wrote:

                       

                      Hi Immel and Aaron,

                      If Immel is I2a2a3a2a (L1198+), shouldn't he test for Z190 or Z79 to see if he is I2a2a3a2a*, I2a2a3a2a1, I2a2a3a2a1* or I2a2a3a2a1a? Or am I reading the tree the wrong way? Thanks!

                      Best,
                      JOAO
                      kit 260237 (possibly I2a2a3a2a)

                      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello, Immel
                      >
                      > There are no new SNP's for you at the moment.
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      > Aaron Torres
                      >
                      > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Immel wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Aaron,
                      > >
                      > > I am currently shown as I2a2a3a2a and am L1198+. Are there additional SNPs I should test for?
                      > >
                      > > As a note, I am about to receive my Geno 2.0 results and have completed the WTY last year.
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > >
                      > > Martin Sewell
                      > > FTDNA Kit 22066
                      > >

                    • Immel
                      Wayne, thanks! Immel Skype: +44 1865589924
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                        Wayne, thanks!

                        Immel

                        Skype: +44 1865589924

                        On Jan 16, 2013, at 1:26, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

                         

                        Hello Joao,
                         
                        Martin (Immel) has already tested for Z190 and Z79. He is Z190+ and Z79-.
                         
                        He is in the right listing at present on the Project STR results page as Cont 1c.
                         
                        In the ISOGG tree for Haplogroup I he would be I2a2a3a2a1 (I-Z190) with the possibility of I2a2a3a2a1* (I-Z190*).
                         
                        Wayne
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:20 AM
                        Subject: [I-M223] Re: updated tree... Foundations of I-M223 Haplogroup shaken (CTS616 and CTS9183)

                         

                        Hi Immel and Aaron,

                        If Immel is I2a2a3a2a (L1198+), shouldn't he test for Z190 or Z79 to see if he is I2a2a3a2a*, I2a2a3a2a1, I2a2a3a2a1* or I2a2a3a2a1a? Or am I reading the tree the wrong way? Thanks!

                        Best,
                        JOAO
                        kit 260237 (possibly I2a2a3a2a)

                        --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello, Immel
                        >
                        > There are no new SNP's for you at the moment.
                        >
                        > Thank you,
                        > Aaron Torres
                        >
                        > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Immel wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Aaron,
                        > >
                        > > I am currently shown as I2a2a3a2a and am L1198+. Are there additional SNPs I should test for?
                        > >
                        > > As a note, I am about to receive my Geno 2.0 results and have completed the WTY last year.
                        > >
                        > > Regards,
                        > >
                        > > Martin Sewell
                        > > FTDNA Kit 22066
                        > >

                      • joaobraz_2000
                        Hi Wayne, Thanks ... I didn t know he had tested for these SNPs ... Martin, maybe I ll join you in group cont 1c. Once my L1198 results arrive, I ll know if it
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 18, 2013
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                          Hi Wayne,

                          Thanks ... I didn't know he had tested for these SNPs ...

                          Martin, maybe I'll join you in group cont 1c. Once my L1198 results arrive, I'll know if it is worth testing for these 2 SNPs.

                          JOAO

                          --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Joao,
                          >
                          > Martin (Immel) has already tested for Z190 and Z79. He is Z190+ and Z79-.
                          >
                          > He is in the right listing at present on the Project STR results page as Cont 1c.
                          >
                          > In the ISOGG tree for Haplogroup I he would be I2a2a3a2a1 (I-Z190) with the possibility of I2a2a3a2a1* (I-Z190*).
                          >
                          > Wayne
                        • Martin
                          Joao, Let me know the results. We d be happy to have one more member! Martin
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 19, 2013
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                            Joao,

                            Let me know the results. We'd be happy to have one more member!

                            Martin


                            On Jan 18, 2013, at 7:42 PM, joaobraz_2000 wrote:

                             

                            Hi Wayne,

                            Thanks ... I didn't know he had tested for these SNPs ...

                            Martin, maybe I'll join you in group cont 1c. Once my L1198 results arrive, I'll know if it is worth testing for these 2 SNPs.

                            JOAO

                            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello Joao,
                            >
                            > Martin (Immel) has already tested for Z190 and Z79. He is Z190+ and Z79-.
                            >
                            > He is in the right listing at present on the Project STR results page as Cont 1c.
                            >
                            > In the ISOGG tree for Haplogroup I he would be I2a2a3a2a1 (I-Z190) with the possibility of I2a2a3a2a1* (I-Z190*).
                            >
                            > Wayne


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