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L1198/Z185

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  • Brian McCall
    L1198/Z185 denotes phyloequivalent. Z185 is not phyloequivalent with L1198. Why is the attempt being made. That denoting L1198, as Z185 phyloequivalent. Ken s
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 8, 2012
      L1198/Z185 denotes phyloequivalent. Z185 is not phyloequivalent with L1198.
      Why is the attempt being made. That denoting L1198, as Z185 phyloequivalent.
      Ken's chart simply pokes Z185 on a line with no where to go.
       
      Wayne Roberts knew. What he wrote. When he wrote it.
      Brian   
    • Tony Norris
      I m + for both. They both appear below Z78 and above Z190 for all who have tested those - so until more test we cannot say. Tony I2a2a3a2a1a
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 8, 2012
        I'm + for both. They both appear below Z78 and above Z190 for all who have tested those - so until more test we cannot say.
        Tony
        I2a2a3a2a1a   M223>Z161>L801>Z78 >L1198=?=Z185>Z190>Z79 (Cont1c1)
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
        To: I-M223 <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:38 pm
        Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185

         
        L1198/Z185 denotes phyloequivalent. Z185 is not phyloequivalent with L1198.
        Why is the attempt being made. That denoting L1198, as Z185 phyloequivalent.
        Ken's chart simply pokes Z185 on a line with no where to go.
         
        Wayne Roberts knew. What he wrote. When he wrote it.
        Brian   
      • Brian McCall
        You, are right. I understand. What you mean. They have not been tested were recommended. I asked Aaron, about offering a donation, to help place Z185. Aaron
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 8, 2012
          You, are right. I understand. What you mean. They have not been tested were recommended.
          I asked Aaron, about offering a donation, to help place Z185. Aaron suggested. Z78 and L1198 was most important, at the moment. I understand. There has not been co-operation in testing. Where Z185 or Z171 may actually, be placed. Therefore, I will not offer to help place Z185 nor Z171. I had already, mentioned to Aaron. The recommendations were plain. I would prefer. Those people test themselves.
          It is a small group. Where Z185 and Z171 is recommended. 
           Because, it has not been tested. Unless, someone has test. I am unaware exist. The last time I checked. No one above L1198 had tested for Z185. Z171 I have not checked today, either. That does not make Z185 and L1198 phyloequilalent. A lack of co-operation in testing Z185 or Z171 should not make L1198 appear phyloequivalent to Z185. L1198/Z185 makes them appear phyloequivalent.
           Who would bother to test Z185 or Z171. If they appear phyloequivalent. That makes the recommendations look confusing.
          The questions might be. Who and how will Z185 or Z171 divide particular groups? Were should it be properly placed? 
          I do remember. L1198, Z190 and Z79 having positive results for Z185. Z76 thru Z78 is where I do not remember.
           If Z185 were phyloequivalent to L1198. Plus included on the Geno 2.0. It might help me. Otherwise, I do not care were it goes.
          Unless, it is not properly placed. $29 would have been cheaper than $750 or $1000 dollars. Hey, the Z-snps may entirely replace L-snps.
           But, we can;t forget Geno 2.0. Then wait for the next version. Oh but wait, we researchers made that possible. 
           Brian  
             

          From: Tony Norris <NorrisTony@...>
          To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2012 6:10 PM
          Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
           
          I'm + for both. They both appear below Z78 and above Z190 for all who have tested those - so until more test we cannot say.
          Tony
          I2a2a3a2a1a   M223>Z161>L801>Z78 >L1198=?=Z185>Z190>Z79 (Cont1c1)
          -----Original Message----- From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...> To: I-M223 <I-M223@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:38 pm Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
           
          L1198/Z185 denotes phyloequivalent. Z185 is not phyloequivalent with L1198.
          Why is the attempt being made. That denoting L1198, as Z185 phyloequivalent.
          Ken's chart simply pokes Z185 on a line with no where to go.
           
          Wayne Roberts knew. What he wrote. When he wrote it.
          Brian   
        • Bobby Carpenter
          Ditto, I m + for both also. According to FTDNA, 13 people have tested and seven of those are positive. Somehow we need to determine what other groups need to
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 8, 2012
            Ditto, I'm + for both also.  According to FTDNA, 13 people have tested and seven of those are positive. Somehow we need to determine what other groups need to be tested (and hopefully they will respond) so that we can get Z185 added to ISOGG.
            Bob

            On 11/8/2012 3:10 PM, Tony Norris wrote:  

            I'm + for both. They both appear below Z78 and above Z190 for all who have tested those - so until more test we cannot say.
            Tony
            I2a2a3a2a1a   M223>Z161>L801>Z78 >L1198=?=Z185>Z190>Z79 (Cont1c1)
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
            To: I-M223 <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:38 pm
            Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185

             
            L1198/Z185 denotes phyloequivalent. Z185 is not phyloequivalent with L1198.
            Why is the attempt being made. That denoting L1198, as Z185 phyloequivalent.
            Ken's chart simply pokes Z185 on a line with no where to go.
             
            Wayne Roberts knew. What he wrote. When he wrote it.
            Brian   

          • Wayne Roberts
            Brian, you can spank my bare bum if we ever meet for giving the incorrect interpretation of what I was reading regarding Z185 and thereby misleading you. I am
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 8, 2012
              Brian, you can spank my bare bum if we ever meet for giving the incorrect interpretation of what I was reading regarding Z185 and thereby misleading you. I am so sorry, but I thought you were tell me that was how you read it, I agreed because you are more experienced in this quarter than I. I'm a Roots boy, not Z161 sector. :-)
               
              I admitted I got it wrong, or didn't you see that in a later post?
               
              Wayne
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:38 AM
              Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185

               

              L1198/Z185 denotes phyloequivalent. Z185 is not phyloequivalent with L1198.
              Why is the attempt being made. That denoting L1198, as Z185 phyloequivalent.
              Ken's chart simply pokes Z185 on a line with no where to go.
               
              Wayne Roberts knew. What he wrote. When he wrote it.
              Brian   

            • Brian McCall
              Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did
              Message 6 of 15 , May 13, 2013
                Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                 If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                 
                Brian McCall
                L1198/Z185? > F3195 
              • Bob Hamlin
                Brian, I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link: 
                Message 7 of 15 , May 14, 2013
                  Brian,

                  I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml.   They have assigned Hannibal Hamlin a haplogroup using my Hamlin DNA information from the I M223 project. Hannibal isn't in my tree.  So far, I've identified 3 separate haplogroups for the Hamlin surname and there are as many yet to be identified.  To further complicate the matter, I have not matched anyone on YDNA with the Hamlin surname beyond descendants of my gr grandfather. There is a great possibility that I have a NPE around 1700. So to apply a haplogroup to a famous deceased individual would be risky at the least.  No genealogy work done in this instance, just guessing.   Bob Hamlin # 102637



                  From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                  To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:58 PM
                  Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185

                   
                  Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                   If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                  I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                   
                  Brian McCall
                  L1198/Z185? > F3195 


                • EDWARD FLEET
                  I was wondering who this Charles Polk Jr. is? I belong to the Polk group at ancestry.DNA. There are two main lines there I2b1 and R1b1. It has supposedly been
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 14, 2013
                    I was wondering who this Charles Polk Jr. is? I belong to the Polk group at ancestry.DNA. There are two main lines there I2b1 and R1b1. It has supposedly been established that President Polk was R1b1 as two of the R1b1 Polks are descendants of brothers of Ezekial Polk, President Polks grandfather. If this Charles Polk Jr. is related to President James Knox Polk through the male line and is I2b1 it would throw a monkey wrench into the idea that President Polk was R1b1 based on the line of descent of two grand-grand etc. nephews.   

                    From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                    To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:23 AM
                    Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                     
                    Brian, I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml.   They have assigned Hannibal Hamlin a haplogroup using my Hamlin DNA information from the I M223 project. Hannibal isn't in my tree.  So far, I've identified 3 separate haplogroups for the Hamlin surname and there are as many yet to be identified.  To further complicate the matter, I have not matched anyone on YDNA with the Hamlin surname beyond descendants of my gr grandfather. There is a great possibility that I have a NPE around 1700. So to apply a haplogroup to a famous deceased individual would be risky at the least.  No genealogy work done in this instance, just guessing.   Bob Hamlin # 102637


                    From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                    To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:58 PM
                    Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                     
                    Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                     If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                    I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                     
                    Brian McCall
                    L1198/Z185? > F3195 
                  • grant south
                    Hello Brian, You mention above McLea , is this is in reference to MacLea South 5559. If so this is a South paternal line. MacLea representing a maternal line.
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 14, 2013
                      Hello Brian,

                      You mention above "McLea", is this is in reference to MacLea South 5559. If so this is a South paternal line. MacLea representing a maternal line.

                      It is true that some Clay's would be descendants of Highland MacLea/Macleay/McClay's.

                      Best!

                      Grant MacLea South.
                    • Brian McCall
                       I read the articles, about Charles Polk Jr. and James K. Polk on Wikipedia.   So, I will not drag it out. If you have not read those, recently. Read the
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 14, 2013
                         I read the articles, about Charles Polk Jr. and James K. Polk on Wikipedia.
                          So, I will not drag it out. If you have not read those, recently. Read the Wikipedia articles, on Charles Polk Jr and James K. Polk.
                         I read the same type of articles, at Wikipedia, about Hannibal Hamlin, Davy Crockett, Andrew Johnson, and the rest of the I-M223 Famous people list.
                         
                         Brian McCall  #127052
                        L1198 => F3195

                        From: EDWARD FLEET <nedepfleet@...>
                        To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:52 PM
                        Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                         
                        I was wondering who this Charles Polk Jr. is? I belong to the Polk group at ancestry.DNA. There are two main lines there I2b1 and R1b1. It has supposedly been established that President Polk was R1b1 as two of the R1b1 Polks are descendants of brothers of Ezekial Polk, President Polks grandfather. If this Charles Polk Jr. is related to President James Knox Polk through the male line and is I2b1 it would throw a monkey wrench into the idea that President Polk was R1b1 based on the line of descent of two grand-grand etc. nephews.   

                        From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                        To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:23 AM
                        Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                         
                        Brian, I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml.   They have assigned Hannibal Hamlin a haplogroup using my Hamlin DNA information from the I M223 project. Hannibal isn't in my tree.  So far, I've identified 3 separate haplogroups for the Hamlin surname and there are as many yet to be identified.  To further complicate the matter, I have not matched anyone on YDNA with the Hamlin surname beyond descendants of my gr grandfather. There is a great possibility that I have a NPE around 1700. So to apply a haplogroup to a famous deceased individual would be risky at the least.  No genealogy work done in this instance, just guessing.   Bob Hamlin # 102637


                        From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                        To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:58 PM
                        Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                         
                        Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                         If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                        I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                         
                        Brian McCall
                        L1198/Z185? > F3195 
                      • Brian McCall
                        I think. I will return and remain with the I-M223 project recommendations. I have noticed the FT DNA, Y match, genetic distance tip calculator has been
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 15, 2013
                          I think. I will return and remain with the I-M223 project recommendations. I have noticed the FT DNA, Y match, genetic distance tip calculator has been adjusted. I am L1198. I am also, Z185. The current I-M223 project tree, under investigation, shows my terminal SNP is F3195. Which is down stream of L1198 and parallel to Z190. I have seen the Warped Founders Tree F3195 STR modal. I received the I-M223 project SNP testing recommendations from Aaron.
                           I do not know anything else, about F3195. Except, it was a Genographic project SNP. I have only, watched the I-M223 project develop and progress.
                          Brian McCall #127052   

                          From: grant south <southesq1@...>
                          To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:30 AM
                          Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                           
                          Hello Brian,
                          You mention above "McLea", is this is in reference to MacLea South 5559. If so this is a South paternal line. MacLea representing a maternal line.
                          It is true that some Clay's would be descendants of Highland MacLea/Macleay/McClay's.
                          Best!
                          Grant MacLea South.
                        • EDWARD FLEET
                          I read the Wiki article on Charles Polk Jr after I sent the post. I was thinking that he may have been a descendant of Ezekial Polk, President Polk s
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 15, 2013
                            I read the Wiki article on Charles Polk Jr after I sent the post. I was thinking that he may have been a descendant of Ezekial Polk, President Polk's grandfather, but he was more distant, so the theory that President Polk was R1b1 remains in tact for now.

                            From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                            To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:35 AM
                            Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                             
                             I read the articles, about Charles Polk Jr. and James K. Polk on Wikipedia.
                              So, I will not drag it out. If you have not read those, recently. Read the Wikipedia articles, on Charles Polk Jr and James K. Polk.
                             I read the same type of articles, at Wikipedia, about Hannibal Hamlin, Davy Crockett, Andrew Johnson, and the rest of the I-M223 Famous people list.
                             
                             Brian McCall  #127052
                            L1198 => F3195

                            From: EDWARD FLEET <nedepfleet@...>
                            To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:52 PM
                            Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                             
                            I was wondering who this Charles Polk Jr. is? I belong to the Polk group at ancestry.DNA. There are two main lines there I2b1 and R1b1. It has supposedly been established that President Polk was R1b1 as two of the R1b1 Polks are descendants of brothers of Ezekial Polk, President Polks grandfather. If this Charles Polk Jr. is related to President James Knox Polk through the male line and is I2b1 it would throw a monkey wrench into the idea that President Polk was R1b1 based on the line of descent of two grand-grand etc. nephews.   

                            From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                            To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:23 AM
                            Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                             
                            Brian, I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml.   They have assigned Hannibal Hamlin a haplogroup using my Hamlin DNA information from the I M223 project. Hannibal isn't in my tree.  So far, I've identified 3 separate haplogroups for the Hamlin surname and there are as many yet to be identified.  To further complicate the matter, I have not matched anyone on YDNA with the Hamlin surname beyond descendants of my gr grandfather. There is a great possibility that I have a NPE around 1700. So to apply a haplogroup to a famous deceased individual would be risky at the least.  No genealogy work done in this instance, just guessing.   Bob Hamlin # 102637


                            From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                            To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:58 PM
                            Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                             
                            Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                             If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                            I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                             
                            Brian McCall
                            L1198/Z185? > F3195 
                          • Bob Hamlin
                            Brian, Thanks for starting this thread.  I think it s good that we know that not all published is backed by research.  I was elated when I first read that
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 15, 2013
                              Brian, Thanks for starting this thread.  I think it's good that we know that not all published is backed by research.  I was elated when I first read that Hannibal Hamlin and I had the same DNA.  I felt foolish when I realized the DNA referred to was mine and not that of Hannibal.  The article clearly stated that Hannibal's haplogroup was based on the results of the I M223 project.  I happen to be the only Hamlin that is in the I M223 project so it had to be my results that were using to connect Hannibal to the group.  According to family trees on Ancestry, Hannibal is supposed   to be a descendant of James Hamlin & Mary Dunham.  I have not proven this.  I have compared my DNA with 5 men that claim to be on various branches descending from James & Mary.  All of the 5 are in the R Haplogroup.  So, Does that put Hannibal in the R group?  Not without testing a known male Hamlin descendant of Hannibal.  Regards, Bob Hamlin





                              From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                              To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:35 AM
                              Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185

                               
                               I read the articles, about Charles Polk Jr. and James K. Polk on Wikipedia.
                                So, I will not drag it out. If you have not read those, recently. Read the Wikipedia articles, on Charles Polk Jr and James K. Polk.
                               I read the same type of articles, at Wikipedia, about Hannibal Hamlin, Davy Crockett, Andrew Johnson, and the rest of the I-M223 Famous people list.
                               
                               Brian McCall  #127052
                              L1198 => F3195

                              From: EDWARD FLEET <nedepfleet@...>
                              To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:52 PM
                              Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                               
                              I was wondering who this Charles Polk Jr. is? I belong to the Polk group at ancestry.DNA. There are two main lines there I2b1 and R1b1. It has supposedly been established that President Polk was R1b1 as two of the R1b1 Polks are descendants of brothers of Ezekial Polk, President Polks grandfather. If this Charles Polk Jr. is related to President James Knox Polk through the male line and is I2b1 it would throw a monkey wrench into the idea that President Polk was R1b1 based on the line of descent of two grand-grand etc. nephews.   

                              From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                              To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:23 AM
                              Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                               
                              Brian, I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml.   They have assigned Hannibal Hamlin a haplogroup using my Hamlin DNA information from the I M223 project. Hannibal isn't in my tree.  So far, I've identified 3 separate haplogroups for the Hamlin surname and there are as many yet to be identified.  To further complicate the matter, I have not matched anyone on YDNA with the Hamlin surname beyond descendants of my gr grandfather. There is a great possibility that I have a NPE around 1700. So to apply a haplogroup to a famous deceased individual would be risky at the least.  No genealogy work done in this instance, just guessing.   Bob Hamlin # 102637


                              From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                              To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:58 PM
                              Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                               
                              Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                               If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                              I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                               
                              Brian McCall
                              L1198/Z185? > F3195 


                            • Brian McCall
                              Bob, I am glad. You brought the up the information, about Hannibal Hamlin. Although, it really threw me for a loop. Ancestry genealogy has disappointed me in
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 15, 2013
                                Bob, I am glad. You brought the up the information, about Hannibal Hamlin. Although, it really threw me for a loop. Ancestry genealogy has disappointed me in the past. I have followed a few wild goose chases. My genealogy work came to a grinding halt, last fall. I only, did genealogy, for hereditary and heritage organizations. Except, my own genealogy. Plus, exploring family finder results.
                                While, I have access to the Sons of American Revolution Library. It would require me, to visit the library personally. Unless, specific information is requested. When, requesting a look up, thru the NSSAR. It does have limitations. The DAR is the same way. Information requested . for a free look up, is specific. The National Archives Library and Library of Congress are good places to request information, or visit. The librarians may not find, all the information available. The information request is specific. So, some records may get missed. Most state archives are the same way. Although, none require a payment, unless information is found. Then, you must actually, order the information.  Before, any payment is required.
                                   I have remained, in my McCall project. Although, I know. My NPE was in 1833. My NPE would have been my G.G.G.Grandfather. Finding him has been elusive. My McCall surname origin is R1b. In the past, Nicholas Tesla was debated as I2a, thru speculation. The evidence was very thin. I learned today, thru my McCall project. He must be considered R1b. 
                                Regards, Brian McCall #127052 

                                From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                                To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:10 PM
                                Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                 
                                Brian, Thanks for starting this thread.  I think it's good that we know that not all published is backed by research.  I was elated when I first read that Hannibal Hamlin and I had the same DNA.  I felt foolish when I realized the DNA referred to was mine and not that of Hannibal.  The article clearly stated that Hannibal's haplogroup was based on the results of the I M223 project.  I happen to be the only Hamlin that is in the I M223 project so it had to be my results that were using to connect Hannibal to the group.  According to family trees on Ancestry, Hannibal is supposed   to be a descendant of James Hamlin & Mary Dunham.  I have not proven this.  I have compared my DNA with 5 men that claim to be on various branches descending from James & Mary.  All of the 5 are in the R Haplogroup.  So, Does that put Hannibal in the R group?  Not without testing a known male Hamlin descendant of Hannibal.  Regards, Bob Hamlin




                                From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                                To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:35 AM
                                Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                 
                                 I read the articles, about Charles Polk Jr. and James K. Polk on Wikipedia.
                                  So, I will not drag it out. If you have not read those, recently. Read the Wikipedia articles, on Charles Polk Jr and James K. Polk.
                                 I read the same type of articles, at Wikipedia, about Hannibal Hamlin, Davy Crockett, Andrew Johnson, and the rest of the I-M223 Famous people list.
                                 
                                 Brian McCall  #127052
                                L1198 => F3195

                                From: EDWARD FLEET <nedepfleet@...>
                                To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:52 PM
                                Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                 
                                I was wondering who this Charles Polk Jr. is? I belong to the Polk group at ancestry.DNA. There are two main lines there I2b1 and R1b1. It has supposedly been established that President Polk was R1b1 as two of the R1b1 Polks are descendants of brothers of Ezekial Polk, President Polks grandfather. If this Charles Polk Jr. is related to President James Knox Polk through the male line and is I2b1 it would throw a monkey wrench into the idea that President Polk was R1b1 based on the line of descent of two grand-grand etc. nephews.   

                                From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                                To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:23 AM
                                Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                 
                                Brian, I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml.   They have assigned Hannibal Hamlin a haplogroup using my Hamlin DNA information from the I M223 project. Hannibal isn't in my tree.  So far, I've identified 3 separate haplogroups for the Hamlin surname and there are as many yet to be identified.  To further complicate the matter, I have not matched anyone on YDNA with the Hamlin surname beyond descendants of my gr grandfather. There is a great possibility that I have a NPE around 1700. So to apply a haplogroup to a famous deceased individual would be risky at the least.  No genealogy work done in this instance, just guessing.   Bob Hamlin # 102637


                                From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                                To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:58 PM
                                Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                 
                                Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                                 If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                                I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                                 
                                Brian McCall
                                L1198/Z185? > F3195 
                              • Brian McCall
                                Bob, let me add. I know. That must have been dis-heartening. As, I mentioned. It dumb-founded me. But, it is no fault of your own. I have felt the elation. You
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 15, 2013
                                  Bob, let me add. I know. That must have been dis-heartening. As, I mentioned. It dumb-founded me. But, it is no fault of your own. I have felt the elation. You mentioned. I have also, felt the foolishness. I have felt less than, an inch tall. A few times I have been vindicated. I am still, glad you shared the information. Regards, Brian McCall #127052

                                  From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                                  To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:10 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                   
                                  Brian, Thanks for starting this thread.  I think it's good that we know that not all published is backed by research.  I was elated when I first read that Hannibal Hamlin and I had the same DNA.  I felt foolish when I realized the DNA referred to was mine and not that of Hannibal.  The article clearly stated that Hannibal's haplogroup was based on the results of the I M223 project.  I happen to be the only Hamlin that is in the I M223 project so it had to be my results that were using to connect Hannibal to the group.  According to family trees on Ancestry, Hannibal is supposed   to be a descendant of James Hamlin & Mary Dunham.  I have not proven this.  I have compared my DNA with 5 men that claim to be on various branches descending from James & Mary.  All of the 5 are in the R Haplogroup.  So, Does that put Hannibal in the R group?  Not without testing a known male Hamlin descendant of Hannibal.  Regards, Bob Hamlin




                                  From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                                  To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:35 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                   
                                   I read the articles, about Charles Polk Jr. and James K. Polk on Wikipedia.
                                    So, I will not drag it out. If you have not read those, recently. Read the Wikipedia articles, on Charles Polk Jr and James K. Polk.
                                   I read the same type of articles, at Wikipedia, about Hannibal Hamlin, Davy Crockett, Andrew Johnson, and the rest of the I-M223 Famous people list.
                                   
                                   Brian McCall  #127052
                                  L1198 => F3195

                                  From: EDWARD FLEET <nedepfleet@...>
                                  To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:52 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                   
                                  I was wondering who this Charles Polk Jr. is? I belong to the Polk group at ancestry.DNA. There are two main lines there I2b1 and R1b1. It has supposedly been established that President Polk was R1b1 as two of the R1b1 Polks are descendants of brothers of Ezekial Polk, President Polks grandfather. If this Charles Polk Jr. is related to President James Knox Polk through the male line and is I2b1 it would throw a monkey wrench into the idea that President Polk was R1b1 based on the line of descent of two grand-grand etc. nephews.   

                                  From: Bob Hamlin <bhamlin40@...>
                                  To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:23 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                   
                                  Brian, I have an example where much research needs to be done before assigning a haplogroup to a deceased famous person. See this link:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml.   They have assigned Hannibal Hamlin a haplogroup using my Hamlin DNA information from the I M223 project. Hannibal isn't in my tree.  So far, I've identified 3 separate haplogroups for the Hamlin surname and there are as many yet to be identified.  To further complicate the matter, I have not matched anyone on YDNA with the Hamlin surname beyond descendants of my gr grandfather. There is a great possibility that I have a NPE around 1700. So to apply a haplogroup to a famous deceased individual would be risky at the least.  No genealogy work done in this instance, just guessing.   Bob Hamlin # 102637


                                  From: Brian McCall <mccallbrian568@...>
                                  To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:58 PM
                                  Subject: [I-M223] L1198/Z185
                                   
                                  Famous I-M223: If Charles Polk Jr. is L1198/Z185?. Would his distant cousin James K. Polk-US President be L1198/Z185?. I have read. President James K. Polk did not have any children. But, he had siblings.
                                   If Mclea is Clay and L1198/Z185?. Would it bring to mind Henry Clay-US political figure.
                                  I have noticed some of the earliest known ancestors on the I-M223 project. There has been some good genealogy work done, congratulations.
                                   
                                  Brian McCall
                                  L1198/Z185? > F3195 
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