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Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

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  • sallfertorr
    Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP s need to be
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 13, 2012
      Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

      I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

      Thanks,
      Aaron Torres
    • Wayne Roberts
      That is interesting Aaron. Kit 214599 Roberts is Z2054+ Wayne ... From: sallfertorr To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 1:14 PM
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 13, 2012
        That is interesting Aaron.
         
        Kit 214599 Roberts is Z2054+
         
        Wayne
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 1:14 PM
        Subject: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

         

        Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

        I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

        Thanks,
        Aaron Torres

      • Alan Ferguson
        Aaron, should I (Kit 159685 Ferguson) or Griffin Kit 48274 test for Z2054? Alan Ferguson ... That is interesting Aaron. Kit 214599 Roberts is Z2054+ Wayne ...
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 14, 2012

          Aaron, should I (Kit 159685 Ferguson) or Griffin Kit 48274 test for Z2054?

          Alan Ferguson

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Wayne Roberts
          Sent: Sep 13, 2012 11:23 PM
          To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

           

          That is interesting Aaron.
           
          Kit 214599 Roberts is Z2054+
           
          Wayne
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 1:14 PM
          Subject: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

           

          Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

          I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

          Thanks,
          Aaron Torres

        • Wayne Roberts
          Hi Alan, On the I-M223 Results spreadsheet, your Roots L1230+ group is recommended to test for Z2054. Wayne ... From: Alan Ferguson To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 14, 2012
            
            Hi Alan,
             
            On the I-M223 Results spreadsheet, your Roots L1230+ group is recommended to test for Z2054.
             
            Wayne
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 11:58 PM
            Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

             

            Aaron, should I (Kit 159685 Ferguson) or Griffin Kit 48274 test for Z2054?

            Alan Ferguson

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Wayne Roberts
            Sent: Sep 13, 2012 11:23 PM
            To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

             

            That is interesting Aaron.
             
            Kit 214599 Roberts is Z2054+
             
            Wayne
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 1:14 PM
            Subject: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

             

            Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

            I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

            Thanks,
            Aaron Torres

          • sallfertorr
            Absolutely, Alan In fact, we need your results in order to place Z2054 on the tree. Thanks, Aaron Torres
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 14, 2012
              Absolutely, Alan

              In fact, we need your results in order to place Z2054 on the tree.

              Thanks,
              Aaron Torres
            • Wayne Roberts
              Aaron, As Gautret is L1229+ L1230- Z2054- and Z2083+, should he be tested for the other Z2055 - Z2101 SNPs or are you confident he is +ve for all of those?
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 14, 2012
                Aaron,
                 
                As Gautret is L1229+ L1230- Z2054- and Z2083+, should he be tested for the other Z2055 - Z2101 SNPs or are you confident he is +ve for all of those?
                 
                Wayne
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:28 AM
                Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                 

                Absolutely, Alan

                In fact, we need your results in order to place Z2054 on the tree.

                Thanks,
                Aaron Torres

              • sallfertorr
                Hello, Wayne I am not confident that any specific sector of Roots is positive/negative for the various SNP s in the Z2054-Z2102 series because we have not had
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 14, 2012
                  Hello, Wayne

                  I am not confident that any specific sector of Roots is positive/negative for the various SNP's in the Z2054-Z2102 series because we have not had all of these SNP's tested in all of the sectors. And without testing, we cannot know - we can only guess.

                  We only "caught" Z2054 because it was first in the list and more people have tested for it. I know, however, that some will be adamantly against the systematic testing of these SNP's as they will call it a "waste of hobbyists' money".

                  Though I may be criticized, I think we should invest a little more in this series and see what we can come up with.

                  Thanks,
                  Aaron Torres


                  --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Aaron,
                  >
                  > As Gautret is L1229+ L1230- Z2054- and Z2083+, should he be tested for the other Z2055 - Z2101 SNPs or are you confident he is +ve for all of those?
                  >
                  > Wayne
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: sallfertorr
                  > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:28 AM
                  > Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Absolutely, Alan
                  >
                  > In fact, we need your results in order to place Z2054 on the tree.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Aaron Torres
                  >
                • Vincent G
                  Hi Aaron, I m not that surprised by the negative Z2054 result. Just take a look at what Ken Nordtvedt said, when he studied my special haplotype:
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 17, 2012
                    Hi Aaron,

                    I'm not that surprised by the negative Z2054 result. Just take a look at what Ken Nordtvedt said, when he studied my "special" haplotype:

                    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2012-09/1347677909

                    I would belong to an old group in the Roots family, the only known member being myself! (Knordvedt included it in the latest version of his M223+ tree).

                    Unfortunately for me, we still don't know yet how to define this group. It would be probably interesting if I ordered tests from Z2055 to Z2101, but honestly it's really too expensive for me!

                    What do you think of it?

                    Vincent Gautret, the very rare bird!!


                    --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" <sallfertorr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.
                    >
                    > I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Aaron Torres
                    >
                  • Wayne Roberts
                    Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb. We now have three confirmed members of a subclade
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                      Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.
                       
                      "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                      It’s distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389.  There are more identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators
                      It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."
                       
                      Posting it here for the interest of our members.
                      Wayne
                    • Tj
                      Ok - I m confused now. Since I joined the group I ve been told I m Cont2a. But I match every marker you just mentioned.... PANEL 1 (1-12) Marker DYS393
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                        Ok - I'm confused now. Since I joined the group I've been told I'm Cont2a. But I match every marker you just mentioned....

                        PANEL 1 (1-12)
                        Marker DYS393 DYS390 DYS19** DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392 DYS389II***
                        Value 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 11 14 12 32

                        PANEL 2 (13-25)
                        Marker DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464
                        Value 15 8-10 11 11 25 14 20 27 11-13-14-15

                        PANEL 3 (26-37)
                        Marker DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAII DYS456 DYS607 DYS576 DYS570 CDY DYS442 DYS438
                        Value 11 10 19-21 15 14 18 19 35-38 12 10

                        Does that mean I'm now British Isles/Scot ???? Sorry but I'm a newbie. I'll order a 67 upgrade when I can.

                        Tim Harlow
                        #247056

                        --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.
                        >
                        > "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                        > It's distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389. There are more identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators
                        > It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."
                        >
                        > Posting it here for the interest of our members.
                        > Wayne
                        >
                      • Clifford Johnston
                        .the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators Are all of these STRs slow mutators or is there a variety of mutation
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012

                          “…the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators”

                           

                          Are all of these STRs slow mutators or is there a variety of mutation rates???  Any ideas as to what their rates of mutation are???

                           

                          Thanks,

                           

                          Cliff.

                           

                          From: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [mailto:I-M223@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Roberts
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:54 AM
                          To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                           

                           

                          Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.

                           

                          "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                          It’s distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389.  There are more identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators

                          It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."

                           

                          Posting it here for the interest of our members.

                          Wayne

                        • Jørgen K. Kanters
                          No. Try test either L801 or Z76, then You know for sure you are a cont guy Fra: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [I-M223@yahoogroups.com] på vegne af Tj
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                            No. Try test either L801 or Z76, then You know for sure you are a cont guy

                            Fra: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [I-M223@yahoogroups.com] på vegne af Tj [tjharlow@...]
                            Sendt: 18. september 2012 17:00
                            Til: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                            Emne: [I-M223] Re: Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                            Ok - I'm confused now. Since I joined the group I've been told I'm Cont2a. But I match every marker you just mentioned....

                            PANEL 1 (1-12)
                            Marker DYS393 DYS390 DYS19** DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392 DYS389II***
                            Value 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 11 14 12 32

                            PANEL 2 (13-25)
                            Marker DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464
                            Value 15 8-10 11 11 25 14 20 27 11-13-14-15

                            PANEL 3 (26-37)
                            Marker DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAII DYS456 DYS607 DYS576 DYS570 CDY DYS442 DYS438
                            Value 11 10 19-21 15 14 18 19 35-38 12 10

                            Does that mean I'm now British Isles/Scot ???? Sorry but I'm a newbie. I'll order a 67 upgrade when I can.

                            Tim Harlow
                            #247056

                            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.
                            >
                            > "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                            > It's distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389. There are more identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators
                            > It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."
                            >
                            > Posting it here for the interest of our members.
                            > Wayne
                            >




                            ------------------------------------

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                          • Wayne Roberts
                            Tim, While you may match those specific markers, you also have to look at the rest of the markers. In the case of your other markers they do not match up to
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                              Tim,
                               
                              While you may match those specific markers, you also have to look at the rest of the markers. In the case of your other markers they do not match up to the Roots group of which L1230+ subclade is part of.
                               
                              If you were Roots ungrouped then you would look at those specific markers and their values. However you have been suggested Cont2a, not Roots.
                               
                              I am somewhat new myself so hope I have explained that correctly.
                               
                              Wayne
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Tj
                              Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:00 AM
                              Subject: [I-M223] Re: Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                               

                              Ok - I'm confused now. Since I joined the group I've been told I'm Cont2a. But I match every marker you just mentioned....

                              PANEL 1 (1-12)
                              Marker DYS393 DYS390 DYS19** DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392 DYS389II***
                              Value 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 11 14 12 32

                              PANEL 2 (13-25)
                              Marker DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464
                              Value 15 8-10 11 11 25 14 20 27 11-13-14-15

                              PANEL 3 (26-37)
                              Marker DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAII DYS456 DYS607 DYS576 DYS570 CDY DYS442 DYS438
                              Value 11 10 19-21 15 14 18 19 35-38 12 10

                              Does that mean I'm now British Isles/Scot ???? Sorry but I'm a newbie. I'll order a 67 upgrade when I can.

                              Tim Harlow
                              #247056

                              --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.
                              >
                              > "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                              > It's distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389. There are more identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators
                              > It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."
                              >
                              > Posting it here for the interest of our members.
                              > Wayne
                              >

                            • Wayne Roberts
                              I asked Ken what the identifying markers were in 38-67 panel and 68-111 panel, though I am sure Aaron also knows these. Ken replied with - 38-67 Panel 594=12
                              Message 14 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                                I asked Ken what the identifying markers were in 38-67 panel and 68-111 panel, though I am sure Aaron also knows these.
                                 
                                Ken replied with -
                                 
                                38-67 Panel
                                594=12
                                444=14
                                534=16
                                 
                                68-111 Panel
                                589=10
                                461=11
                                525=11
                                522=13
                                 
                                Cliff, I assume that 68-111 has a mix of slow and more frequent mutating makers. This is another case for members to test up to 111 markers so that identifying marker values can be mapped.
                                 
                                Wayne
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:46 AM
                                Subject: RE: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                 

                                “…the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators”

                                Are all of these STRs slow mutators or is there a variety of mutation rates???  Any ideas as to what their rates of mutation are???

                                Thanks,

                                Cliff.

                                From: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [mailto:I-M223@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Roberts
                                Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:54 AM
                                To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                 

                                Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.

                                "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                                It’s distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389.  There are m ore identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators

                                It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."

                                Posting it here for the interest of our members.

                                Wayne

                              • Wayne Roberts
                                In the Roots L1230 subclade there are Griffin (x3) and Ferguson but Worth Kit 7617 has also tested L1230+ and his kin Worth 161915 can be assumed positive.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                                  In the Roots L1230 subclade there are Griffin (x3) and Ferguson but Worth Kit 7617 has also tested L1230+ and his kin Worth 161915 can be assumed positive. Both have tested to 67 markers. It would be helpful to firm up identifiers in 68-111 panel if one of the Worth members was able to update to 111 markers at some time.
                                   
                                  Also Griffin, Ferguson and/or Worth need to test for Z2054 to see where L1230 branches off on the Roots tree.
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:40 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                   

                                  I asked Ken what the identifying markers were in 38-67 panel and 68-111 panel, though I am sure Aaron also knows these.
                                   
                                  Ken replied with -
                                   
                                  38-67 Panel
                                  594=12
                                  444=14
                                  534=16
                                   
                                  68-111 Panel
                                  589=10
                                  461=11
                                  525=11
                                  522=13
                                   
                                  Cliff, I assume that 68-111 has a mix of slow and more frequent mutating makers. This is another case for members to test up to 111 markers so that identifying marker values can be mapped.
                                   
                                  Wayne
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:46 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                   

                                  “…the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators”

                                  Are all of these STRs slow mutators or is there a variety of mutation rates???  Any ideas as to what their rates of mutation are???

                                  Thanks,

                                  Cliff.

                                  From: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [mailto:I-M223@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Roberts
                                  Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:54 AM
                                  To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                   

                                  Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.

                                  "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                                  It’s distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389.  There are m ore identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators

                                  It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."

                                  Posting it here for the interest of our members.

                                  Wayne

                                • Alan Ferguson
                                  I (Ferguson Kit 159685) ordered Z2054 on 14 Sep 2012. Alan Ferguson ... In the Roots L1230 subclade there are Griffin (x3) and Ferguson but Worth Kit 7617 has
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012

                                    I (Ferguson Kit 159685) ordered Z2054 on 14 Sep 2012.

                                    Alan Ferguson

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Wayne Roberts
                                    Sent: Sep 18, 2012 6:03 PM
                                    To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                     

                                    In the Roots L1230 subclade there are Griffin (x3) and Ferguson but Worth Kit 7617 has also tested L1230+ and his kin Worth 161915 can be assumed positive. Both have tested to 67 markers. It would be helpful to firm up identifiers in 68-111 panel if one of the Worth members was able to update to 111 markers at some time.
                                     
                                    Also Griffin, Ferguson and/or Worth need to test for Z2054 to see where L1230 branches off on the Roots tree.
                                     
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:40 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                     

                                    I asked Ken what the identifying markers were in 38-67 panel and 68-111 panel, though I am sure Aaron also knows these.
                                     
                                    Ken replied with -
                                     
                                    38-67 Panel
                                    594=12
                                    444=14
                                    534=16
                                     
                                    68-111 Panel
                                    589=10
                                    461=11
                                    525=11
                                    522=13
                                     
                                    Cliff, I assume that 68-111 has a mix of slow and more frequent mutating makers. This is another case for members to test up to 111 markers so that identifying marker values can be mapped.
                                     
                                    Wayne
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:46 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                     

                                    “…the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators”

                                    Are all of these STRs slow mutators or is there a variety of mutation rates???  Any ideas as to what their rates of mutation are???

                                    Thanks,

                                    Cliff.

                                    From: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [mailto:I-M223@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Roberts
                                    Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:54 AM
                                    To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                     

                                    Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.

                                    "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                                    It’s distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389.  There are m ore identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators

                                    It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."

                                    Posting it here for the interest of our members.

                                    Wayne

                                  • Doug Klein
                                    Several of the Perry group are also the rare 17/17. !
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                                      Several of the Perry group are also the rare 17/17. !
                                    • dale perry
                                      what does the 17/17 stand for or meaning? ... From: Doug Klein Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229? To:
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                                        what does the 17/17 stand for or meaning?

                                        --- On Tue, 9/18/12, Doug Klein <k4lt@...> wrote:

                                        From: Doug Klein <k4lt@...>
                                        Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?
                                        To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                         

                                        Several of the Perry group are also the rare 17/17. !

                                      • Wayne Roberts
                                        Hi Dale, The 17/17 refers to Y DNA Markers DYS464c and DYS464d each having a 17 value. Vincent Gautret (Roots group) has 14-14-17-17 for DYS464. ... From: dale
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Sep 18, 2012
                                          
                                          Hi Dale,
                                           
                                          The 17/17 refers to Y DNA Markers DYS464c and DYS464d each having a 17 value. Vincent Gautret (Roots group) has 14-14-17-17 for DYS464.
                                           
                                           
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:59 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                           

                                          what does the 17/17 stand for or meaning?

                                          --- On Tue, 9/18/12, Doug Klein <k4lt@...> wrote:

                                          From: Doug Klein <k4lt@...>
                                          Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?
                                          To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                           

                                          Several of the Perry group are also the rare 17/17. !

                                        • John Worth
                                          I ll see what I can do to get our Worth line up to 111 markers (the two individuals are grandfather and grandson). John Worth
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Sep 19, 2012
                                            I'll see what I can do to get our Worth line up to 111 markers (the two individuals are grandfather and grandson).

                                            John Worth

                                            --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > In the Roots L1230 subclade there are Griffin (x3) and Ferguson but Worth Kit 7617 has also tested L1230+ and his kin Worth 161915 can be assumed positive. Both have tested to 67 markers. It would be helpful to firm up identifiers in 68-111 panel if one of the Worth members was able to update to 111 markers at some time.
                                            >
                                            > Also Griffin, Ferguson and/or Worth need to test for Z2054 to see where L1230 branches off on the Roots tree.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Wayne Roberts
                                            > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:40 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I asked Ken what the identifying markers were in 38-67 panel and 68-111 panel, though I am sure Aaron also knows these.
                                            >
                                            > Ken replied with -
                                            >
                                            > 38-67 Panel
                                            > 594=12
                                            > 444=14
                                            > 534=16
                                            >
                                            > 68-111 Panel
                                            > 589=10
                                            > 461=11
                                            > 525=11
                                            > 522=13
                                            >
                                            > Cliff, I assume that 68-111 has a mix of slow and more frequent mutating makers. This is another case for members to test up to 111 markers so that identifying marker values can be mapped.
                                            >
                                            > Wayne
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Clifford Johnston
                                            > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:46 AM
                                            > Subject: RE: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ".the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators"
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Are all of these STRs slow mutators or is there a variety of mutation rates??? Any ideas as to what their rates of mutation are???
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Thanks,
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Cliff.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [mailto:I-M223@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Roberts
                                            > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:54 AM
                                            > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                                            > It's distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389. There are m ore identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators
                                            >
                                            > It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Posting it here for the interest of our members.
                                            >
                                            > Wayne
                                            >
                                          • Wayne Roberts
                                            Hi John, I think that will be very helpful to understanding this subclade further. Perhaps various family members could contribute towards the upgrade rather
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Sep 19, 2012
                                              Hi John,
                                               
                                              I think that will be very helpful to understanding this subclade further. Perhaps various family members could contribute towards the upgrade rather than it all fall on one person. You seem to be in quite a special little subclade at present. Hopefully more people will test for L1230 now some of the key markers have been identified. Best wishes to you and the family.
                                               
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:42 PM
                                              Subject: [I-M223] Re: Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values

                                               

                                              I'll see what I can do to get our Worth line up to 111 markers (the two individuals are grandfather and grandson).

                                              John Worth

                                              --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > In the Roots L1230 subclade there are Griffin (x3) and Ferguson but Worth Kit 7617 has also tested L1230+ and his kin Worth 161915 can be assumed positive. Both have tested to 67 markers. It would be helpful to firm up identifiers in 68-111 panel if one of the Worth members was able to update to 111 markers at some time.
                                              >
                                              > Also Griffin, Ferguson and/or Worth need to test for Z2054 to see where L1230 branches off on the Roots tree.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: Wayne Roberts
                                              > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:40 AM
                                              > Subject: Re: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I asked Ken what the identifying markers were in 38-67 panel and 68-111 panel, though I am sure Aaron also knows these.
                                              >
                                              > Ken replied with -
                                              >
                                              > 38-67 Panel
                                              > 594=12
                                              > 444=14
                                              > 534=16
                                              >
                                              > 68-111 Panel
                                              > 589=10
                                              > 461=11
                                              > 525=11
                                              > 522=13
                                              >
                                              > Cliff, I assume that 68-111 has a mix of slow and more frequent mutating makers. This is another case for members to test up to 111 markers so that identifying marker values can be mapped.
                                              >
                                              > Wayne
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: Clifford Johnston
                                              > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:46 AM
                                              > Subject: RE: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ".the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators"
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Are all of these STRs slow mutators or is there a variety of mutation rates??? Any ideas as to what their rates of mutation are???
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Thanks,
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Cliff.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: I-M223@yahoogroups.com [mailto:I-M223@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Roberts
                                              > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:54 AM
                                              > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [I-M223] Subclade L1230 identifying STR marker values
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Some members may have seen this post from Ken Nordtvedt earlier to the Y-DNA-Haplogroup-I list on Rootsweb.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > "We now have three confirmed members of a subclade L1230+ of M223+ L1229+ Roots-9
                                              > It's distinctive markers on first 37 markers include 14 at DYS437 with 27 at 449 and the high 14/32 at 389. There are m ore identifiers in the 68-67 panel; but the 68-111 panel really has some strong identifying STR values on slow mutators
                                              >
                                              > It looks rather British Isles/Scot at the moment in membership and likely members."
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Posting it here for the interest of our members.
                                              >
                                              > Wayne
                                              >

                                            • sallfertorr
                                              Hello, Vincent The message you refer to was sent out after the results were published. I know it s expensive but you should consider slowly testing all of the
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Sep 19, 2012
                                                Hello, Vincent

                                                The message you refer to was sent out after the results were published.

                                                I know it's expensive but you should consider slowly testing all of the SNP's in the Z2054 through Z2102 series. Maybe one a week?

                                                Thanks,
                                                Aaron Torres

                                                --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Vincent G" <vini76@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Hi Aaron,
                                                >
                                                > I'm not that surprised by the negative Z2054 result. Just take a look at what Ken Nordtvedt said, when he studied my "special" haplotype:
                                                >
                                                > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2012-09/1347677909
                                                >
                                                > I would belong to an old group in the Roots family, the only known member being myself! (Knordvedt included it in the latest version of his M223+ tree).
                                                >
                                                > Unfortunately for me, we still don't know yet how to define this group. It would be probably interesting if I ordered tests from Z2055 to Z2101, but honestly it's really too expensive for me!
                                                >
                                                > What do you think of it?
                                                >
                                                > Vincent Gautret, the very rare bird!!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "sallfertorr" <sallfertorr@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.
                                                > >
                                                > > I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks,
                                                > > Aaron Torres
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • dale perry
                                                Thank you. I don t know what makes it rare. have a great day. ... From: Wayne Roberts Subject: Re: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Sep 19, 2012
                                                  Thank you. I don't know what makes it rare. have a great day.

                                                  --- On Tue, 9/18/12, Wayne Roberts <wayne_r_roberts@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Wayne Roberts <wayne_r_roberts@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?
                                                  To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 11:22 PM

                                                   

                                                  

                                                  Hi Dale,
                                                   
                                                  The 17/17 refers to Y DNA Markers DYS464c and DYS464d each having a 17 value. Vincent Gautret (Roots group) has 14-14-17-17 for DYS464.
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:59 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                   

                                                  what does the 17/17 stand for or meaning?

                                                  --- On Tue, 9/18/12, Doug Klein <k4lt@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Doug Klein <k4lt@...>
                                                  Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?
                                                  To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                                   

                                                  Several of the Perry group are also the rare 17/17. !

                                                • dale perry
                                                  what make s it rare? and what does it indicate ? ... From: Doug Klein Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229? To:
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Sep 19, 2012
                                                    what make's it rare? and what does it indicate ?

                                                    --- On Tue, 9/18/12, Doug Klein <k4lt@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Doug Klein <k4lt@...>
                                                    Subject: [I-M223] Re: Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?
                                                    To: "I-M223@yahoogroups.com" <I-M223@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                                     

                                                    Several of the Perry group are also the rare 17/17. !

                                                  • Rebecca Bryant
                                                    Aaron, All the Bryants in Roots 2B and Taintor/Ballews are part of the same family group (NPE). You can assume that the rest of us are negative for Z2054 as
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Sep 20, 2012
                                                      Aaron,
                                                      All the Bryants in Roots 2B and Taintor/Ballews are part of the same family group (NPE). You can assume that the rest of us are negative for Z2054 as well.

                                                      What does this mean exactly?

                                                      Rebecca

                                                      Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I would encourage at least one representative each from the
                                                      various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                      > > Aaron Torres
                                                    • sallfertorr
                                                      Hello, Rebecca Roberts (same Roots subgroup as you) has tested positive for Z2054, so I assume your group to be positive for Z2054. Z2054 is a sub-division of
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Sep 20, 2012
                                                        Hello, Rebecca

                                                        Roberts (same Roots subgroup as you) has tested positive for Z2054, so I assume your group to be positive for Z2054.

                                                        Z2054 is a sub-division of L1229 (Roots). We need to understand its relationship with L812 and L1230 now.

                                                        Thanks,
                                                        Aaron Torres

                                                        --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, Rebecca Bryant <rebbry49@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Aaron,
                                                        > All the Bryants in Roots 2B and Taintor/Ballews are part of the same family group (NPE). You can assume that the rest of us are negative for Z2054 as well.
                                                        >
                                                        > What does this mean exactly?
                                                        >
                                                        > Rebecca
                                                        >
                                                        > Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven
                                                        > to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why
                                                        > SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.
                                                        >
                                                        > > >
                                                        >
                                                        > > > I would encourage at least one representative each from the
                                                        > various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members
                                                        > and especially the L1230+ group.
                                                        >
                                                        > > >
                                                        >
                                                        > > > Thanks,
                                                        >
                                                        > > > Aaron Torres
                                                        >
                                                      • Gary Felix
                                                        List, my L1229 results in the Big Y have now been reversed again to L1229- Gary Mexico DNA Project Admin. ________________________________ From: sallfertorr
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Apr 4, 2014
                                                          List,
                                                          my L1229 results in the Big Y have now been reversed again to L1229-

                                                          Gary
                                                          Mexico DNA Project Admin.


                                                          From: sallfertorr <sallfertorr@...>
                                                          To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:14 PM
                                                          Subject: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                           
                                                          Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

                                                          I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Aaron Torres



                                                        • Wayne Roberts
                                                          Hello Gary, I have noticed that you now show as L1229-. I think there are some problems with Big Y readings of various SNPs. All Isles members are showing as
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Apr 4, 2014
                                                            
                                                            Hello Gary,
                                                             
                                                            I have noticed that you now show as L1229-. I think there are some problems with Big Y readings of various SNPs. All Isles members are showing as M284- and now a couple of Roots members are showing as L1229- or unknown. You should email FTDNA about your result. I will bring it up with them also.
                                                             
                                                            What we do know is that the Z2054 to Z2102 series of SNPs have mutated from ancestral to derived at different times. This first showed up in the Chromo2 test data and now in the Big Y test data. Big Y is also having trouble reading some of these or did not test a particular SNP as they are showing as Unknown. These include Z2054, Z2056, Z2058, Z2059, Z2063, Z2076, Z2078, Z2083, Z2089, Z2091 and Z2098 and to lesser degree Z2060 and Z2099. Z2101 appears not to have been tested though I need to check it's alternative name.
                                                             
                                                            Some Roots people will find just as Z2054 can be negative or positive depending on your Roots group, Z2068, Z2069, Z2077, Z2079 and Z2102 are similar, some will be negative and some positive as these appear to be later mutations. We may find these further divide some Roots groups.
                                                             
                                                            We now have five Big Y results back for Roots sector members as well as Webb from Basics3 and Holloway from Basics1 to do comparisons.
                                                             
                                                            Wayne
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 7:59 AM
                                                            Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                             

                                                            List,
                                                            my L1229 results in the Big Y have now been reversed again to L1229-

                                                            Gary
                                                            Mexico DNA Project Admin.


                                                            From: sallfertorr <sallfertorr@...>
                                                            To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:14 PM
                                                            Subject: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                             
                                                            Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

                                                            I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

                                                            Thanks,
                                                            Aaron Torres



                                                          • Gary Felix
                                                            Hello Wayne, http://ytree.morleydna.com/predict has my terminal SNP at L104 (new branch of roots) but as we know this marker is unstable as it appears in J and
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Apr 5, 2014
                                                              Hello Wayne,
                                                              http://ytree.morleydna.com/predict
                                                              has my terminal SNP at L104 (new branch of roots) but as we know this marker is unstable as it appears in J and other subclades of M223. 

                                                              I will suggest to FTDNA that they throw out ambiguous marker results like my L1229 which was hard for the lab to determine. My big Y shows Z2054 as unknown yet it shows as positive on my FTDNA results. 

                                                              Thank you for your Roots update.
                                                              Gary
                                                              Mexico DNA Project Admin. 


                                                              From: Wayne Roberts <wayne_r_roberts@...>
                                                              To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 4:57 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                               
                                                              
                                                              Hello Gary,
                                                               
                                                              I have noticed that you now show as L1229-. I think there are some problems with Big Y readings of various SNPs. All Isles members are showing as M284- and now a couple of Roots members are showing as L1229- or unknown. You should email FTDNA about your result. I will bring it up with them also.
                                                               
                                                              What we do know is that the Z2054 to Z2102 series of SNPs have mutated from ancestral to derived at different times. This first showed up in the Chromo2 test data and now in the Big Y test data. Big Y is also having trouble reading some of these or did not test a particular SNP as they are showing as Unknown. These include Z2054, Z2056, Z2058, Z2059, Z2063, Z2076, Z2078, Z2083, Z2089, Z2091 and Z2098 and to lesser degree Z2060 and Z2099. Z2101 appears not to have been tested though I need to check it's alternative name.
                                                               
                                                              Some Roots people will find just as Z2054 can be negative or positive depending on your Roots group, Z2068, Z2069, Z2077, Z2079 and Z2102 are similar, some will be negative and some positive as these appear to be later mutations. We may find these further divide some Roots groups.
                                                               
                                                              We now have five Big Y results back for Roots sector members as well as Webb from Basics3 and Holloway from Basics1 to do comparisons.
                                                               
                                                              Wayne
                                                               
                                                               
                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 7:59 AM
                                                              Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                               
                                                              List,
                                                              my L1229 results in the Big Y have now been reversed again to L1229-

                                                              Gary
                                                              Mexico DNA Project Admin.


                                                              From: sallfertorr <sallfertorr@...>
                                                              To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:14 PM
                                                              Subject: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                               
                                                              Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

                                                              I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

                                                              Thanks,
                                                              Aaron Torres





                                                            • Wayne Roberts
                                                              Hi Gary, I think L104 could be problematic. It shows as a new branch on the Morley Haplogroup Predictor because it was found in one person s Geno 2.0 result.
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Apr 6, 2014
                                                                
                                                                Hi Gary,
                                                                 
                                                                I think L104 could be problematic. It shows as a new branch on the Morley Haplogroup Predictor because it was found in one person's Geno 2.0 result. It may need to be looked at further but for now I am not taking it seriously. As you said it appears in other subclades of M223 and is most likely upstream of M223.
                                                                 
                                                                The reason you show as Z2054+ at FTDNA is because you individually tested for that SNP and was found derived. I do not know why the Big Y result wiped out your individual test result for L1229. Mostly Big Y results are added to previous results, not replace them.
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 8:35 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                                 

                                                                Hello Wayne,
                                                                has my terminal SNP at L104 (new branch of roots) but as we know this marker is unstable as it appears in J and other subclades of M223. 

                                                                I will suggest to FTDNA that they throw out ambiguous marker results like my L1229 which was hard for the lab to determine. My big Y shows Z2054 as unknown yet it shows as positive on my FTDNA results. 

                                                                Thank you for your Roots update.
                                                                Gary
                                                                Mexico DNA Project Admin. 


                                                                From: Wayne Roberts <wayne_r_roberts@...>
                                                                To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 4:57 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                                 
                                                                
                                                                Hello Gary,
                                                                 
                                                                I have noticed that you now show as L1229-. I think there are some problems with Big Y readings of various SNPs. All Isles members are showing as M284- and now a couple of Roots members are showing as L1229- or unknown. You should email FTDNA about your result. I will bring it up with them also.
                                                                 
                                                                What we do know is that the Z2054 to Z2102 series of SNPs have mutated from ancestral to derived at different times. This first showed up in the Chromo2 test data and now in the Big Y test data. Big Y is also having trouble reading some of these or did not test a particular SNP as they are showing as Unknown. These include Z2054, Z2056, Z2058, Z2059, Z2063, Z2076, Z2078, Z2083, Z2089, Z2091 and Z2098 and to lesser degree Z2060 and Z2099. Z2101 appears not to have been tested though I need to check it's alternative name.
                                                                 
                                                                Some Roots people will find just as Z2054 can be negative or positive depending on your Roots group, Z2068, Z2069, Z2077, Z2079 and Z2102 are similar, some will be negative and some positive as these appear to be later mutations. We may find these further divide some Roots groups.
                                                                 
                                                                We now have five Big Y results back for Roots sector members as well as Webb from Basics3 and Holloway from Basics1 to do comparisons.
                                                                 
                                                                Wayne
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 7:59 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                                 
                                                                List,
                                                                my L1229 results in the Big Y have now been reversed again to L1229-

                                                                Gary
                                                                Mexico DNA Project Admin.


                                                                From: sallfertorr <sallfertorr@...>
                                                                To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:14 PM
                                                                Subject: [I-M223] Is Z2054 downstream from L1229?

                                                                 
                                                                Kit# E2498 (Gautret) is negative for Z2054, whereas Felix (now proven to be L1229+), Taintor (also L1229+) are positive for it. This is why SNP's need to be tested systematically. Our efforts are not in vain.

                                                                I would encourage at least one representative each from the various Roots sectors to test Z2054, including Roots Group 2a members and especially the L1230+ group.

                                                                Thanks,
                                                                Aaron Torres





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