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2225Re: updated tree... Foundations of I-M223 Haplogroup shaken (CTS616 and CTS9183)

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  • sallfertorr
    Jan 5, 2013
      Hello, Robert and Wayne

      The discovery of these two SNP's shakes the foundations of the I-M223 Haplogroup. As you know, until now we had believed that Roots and I2b1-X were somehow related - not anymore, as the new SNP's prove that I2b1-X is even more ancient than we had imagined. So answering your question, it is not necessary to test Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100 for now.

      I have been in contact with Astrid Krahn, who says CTS6433 and CTS1977 (relevant to Cont2a, Cont2b, Cont2to1 and Cont1-X) will be added to the FT DNA catalog in the next couple weeks. I have already added CTS616 and CTS9183 to my list of requests - it is important that Isles, L701/L702 and I-M223* individuals test these SNP's. We also need to be able to repeat these results within I2b1-X (L1228+), just to double-check what we've gotten.

      I will update our tree shortly to reflect this new structure.

      Aaron Torres

      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Roberts" wrote:
      > Thanks Robert. Yes Ken is quick off the mark. But then he is in a cold snowy area of the USA while Aaron in Brazil and me in Australia are definitely not snowed in, haha. I was at the beach today (Saturday) with family.
      > As for these two new upstream SNPs, Project members will have to ask FTDNA to add them to their order list. So send those emails in.
      > I will leave Aaron to answer your question about Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100. But please bear in mind that none of the Z2054-Z2101 series were included in Geno 2.0 so there will be no result for any of them in people's Geno results. The only possibility is if some of the other SNPs are phyloequivalent to any of those, but then these should show when comparing a Roots person to any others in I-M223 and that hasn't really shown up.
      > It will be interesting when other Geno 2.0 results become available as well as the two WTY results over the next month or so.
      > Wayne
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: rob919ert
      > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:21 PM
      > Subject: [I-M223] updated "Tree for M223 x Z161" by Ken Nordtvedt
      > Hi all,
      > as mentioned before I received finally my GENO 2.0 results. The comma separated file with all the discovered snp-values was then sent to Aaron, Wayne and Ken.
      > A few hours later (in the middle of the night here in Europe) Ken had already studied my results and replied as follows:
      > "A very interesting result from the Hofstee raw data file! Triangulation between it and Roots and Cont-2 yields two new snps for which Hofstee is ancestral while Roots and Cont-2 are both derived.
      > CTS616
      > CTS9183
      > This will allow some node ordering way upstream in M223 sector: there must be first a node where L1228 branch line separates from another branch line which leads at least to both Z161 and L1229
      > There are no new snps on the L1228/L1227 branch line, but we should not have expected any, realistically.
      > I will of course go back and double check this all, since it is so interesting on upstream M223 tree structure.
      > Kenneth Nordtvedt"
      > Again an hour later Ken sent the following message:
      > "The updated "Tree for M223xZ161" shows how these two snps start to organize M223's most upstream node structure. To complete this we need Geno 2 results for a M284+ person and a L701+ person and maybe even the Webb family.
      > Or we need snps like CTS616 and CTS 9183 to appear in the FTDNA catalog for testing by people in all the sectors. FTDNA is being very coy about whether they will take snps from the Geno 2 that prove interesting and put them into their catalogs.
      > Kenneth Nordtvedt "
      > Therefore I would suggest to all members to check Ken' s new M223 x Z161 Sector Tree dated 4 January 2013.
      > A question to Aaron: : I guess that testing the four untested SNP's (Z2091, Z2094, Z2095 and Z2100) is not necessary anymore?
      > best regards,
      > Robert
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