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2083Re: L-126 (Limbo)

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  • stephenctimmis
    Dec 1, 2012
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      Thanks Dora, I shall do my best to follow youir advice

      Stephen Timmis


      --- In I-M223@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote:
      >
      > It sounds like you’ve got a cluster there. Small distinct clusters like this are genealogically and historically very convenient things to belong to.
      >
      > From what you’re saying, it’s not a very large cluster. It may be very young, or it may be old but never got well established.
      >
      > You need to compute the genetic distance within this cluster, and tell us what it is. At 67 markers, what is the maximum genetic distance between them, and what is the typical genetic distance between these families? Is there considerably less genetic distance within the families than there is between them, or is there not much genetic distance in this group at all?
      >
      > Most clusters are fairly young, less than 2000 years old, but not all of them. Knowing the age of your cluster is important, However, comparing its age to that of old and well established clusters like the Isles Scottish haplotype, and Isles-Limbo, is irrelevant.
      >
      > From what you are saying, however, it may include a small group of families, and you’re talking about the ability to trace a particular cluster back in time, here. I’d try to trace where any of these families came from.
      >
      > My brother belongs to a cluster of several haplogroup I1, DF29-, families from Scotland that Ken Nordtvedt labelled AS121210. Now, they belong to a larger, clearly Saxon cluster, that he also calls AS121210, though it was named for the Scottish cluster’s markers. The most distinctive of them is that with the three Scottish families only, DYS 568 = 10. In non-Norse I1, that is nearly unique. The Scottish cluster has about half the age of the bigger cluster which Ken and I both think is about 1700 years old. Now, with the Scottish cluster, I was able to trace one of the families to one town on the Forth of Firth, near Stirling, in 1600, which most likely tells us the area where this family lived during medieval times.
      >
      > It didn’t fail to occur to me to compare my brother’s cluster to the Isles-Scottish haplotype, though. LOLOLOLOL! Each of them is around 1700 years old. One cluster became established in an isolated, sparsely populated area, and the other didn’t become established and remained very small.
      >
      > Dora
      >
      >
      > From: stephenctimmis
      > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 2:09 PM
      > To: I-M223@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [I-M223] L-126 (Limbo)
      >
      >
      > There is a group within the Limbo Clade that have DYS-568 = 7.
      >
      > At this project there are 127642 Timmis, 97115 McAlpine, 229010 Dyer.
      >
      > Outside of the project there is Y-Search 45K7J Boon, YUD2A Morris.
      >
      > There are also a couple of Boones in the Boone Surname project.
      >
      > DYS-568 = 7 is a dramatic variation from the normal value of 11 or more at this STR.
      >
      > Because there is no sign of this small 7 in Isles English or either of the Scots Clades, nor indeed in the Isles P Clade, does this mean we can look to the possibility of Isles Limbo being younger than the Scots Clades despite sharing L126, L137 and L369 SNPs?
      >
      > Alternatively, could the 7 value at DYS-568 be produced, purely by chance, in a number of, otherwise, unrelated haplotypes, producing a coincidence of similarity that can mislead?
      >
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