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sorry to let every one down

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  • Dave Sims
    HI all i regret having to sent this e-mail but i feel that i have no choice on the 15th June i received a written warning from the committee i have tried to
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 27, 2005
      HI all

      i regret having to sent this e-mail but i feel that i
      have no choice
      on the 15th June i received a written warning from the
      committee i have tried to arrange a meeting with the
      said committee but have had no joy from this. i had no
      knowledge of this warning prior to it coming out to me
      via e-mail after responding to this i was then asked
      to defend the points raised after they had given me
      this warning and also a 4 game ban this is not a club
      rule but something that the committee has changed
      without discussion with the team.
      i am very disappointed with the way that this has come
      about and done by the committee
      point one for warning :- threatening behaviour to the
      coach. yes i did say a few things to the coach at the
      heat of a moment which i do regret and did apologise
      for straight away however a certain player who i will
      not name has not just verbally threatened the coach
      but also has hit the coach on several occasions has he
      ever had a warning NO
      point two :- over aggressive behaviour in games and
      training; i think you all know that another person who
      i will not name has had far more penalties than me and
      has even abused officials and been kicked out of a
      game has he had a warning NO
      point three :-walking out of the New York game without
      telling anyone. this they have now found to be not
      true and have i had an apology for this NO
      point four:- non payment of standing order.
      in January the committee was aware that i was and
      still am getting a divorce and i was unaware that my
      standing order had been cancelled but as soon as i was
      told of this i went to Steve's house and filled out a
      standing order for a higher amount than everyone else
      to cover this prior to the warning. some people in the
      team are still not paying a standing order have they
      had a warning NO
      point five:- club funds for registration one
      registration for Danny Robinson was lost in the post
      back in November the committee was informed of this
      straight away and i sent an e-mail both to peter and
      Darrell and said that when they wanted the money just
      let me know and i would give it to them.
      yes i do agree i should have just handed over the
      money but with all that was going on earlier this year
      i simply forgot a cheque has now been sent.

      As you all can see (i hope) this has been unfair on
      me and the committee as a whole do not want to discuss
      this now because of this i feel that i can not trust
      the people who are running the club and have no option
      but to give up the game i love so much

      see you all around

      Dave Sims #10

      ps if anyone has any comments you can call me on
      07957-320646 or just e-mail back for all to see







      ___________________________________________________________
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    • william.pearce@mercedes.co.uk
      dave, sorry to hear that, the whys and wherefores and nothing to do with me, but wanted to say thanks for all help and advice you given me since i started
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 28, 2005
        dave,
         
        sorry to hear that, the whys and wherefores and nothing to do with me, but wanted to say thanks for all help and advice you given me since i started playing for the team, really enjoyed playing along side you.
         
         
        all the best mate
      • Richard Dedman
        Dave sims, as you know we had our little chat a few weeks ago abt you and hockey etc, i dont know the ins and outs of your game bans but to my knowledge no one
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 28, 2005
          Dave sims, as you know we had our little chat a few
          weeks ago abt you and hockey etc, i dont know the ins
          and outs of your game bans but to my knowledge no one
          has ever been given game bans before,i am interested
          to know how the ban got decided to be for
          4games??Anyway like i said to you before i think when
          your playing to play,and not to pick up penalties that
          you are one of the strongest more experenced d players
          i have,its a shame you feel you have to quit,i would
          like to see you stick to fingers up at them and
          continue playing,i know wot your going through as i
          always play to win which is causing me problems to,but
          dont give them the satisfaction of you leaving,stay
          work on your game,use the team to develop then next
          year play somewhere else if your not happy with the
          team? Just dont quit unless its wot you wanna do

          --- Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
          <william.pearce@...> wrote:
          >
          =?ISO-8859-1?B?ZGF2ZSwgc29ycnkgdG8gaGVhciB0aGF0LCB0aGUgd2h5cyBhbmQgd2hlcmVmb3JlcyBhbmQgbm90aGluZyB0byBkbyB3aXRoIG1lLCBidXQgd2FudGVkIHRvIHNheSB0aGFua3MgZm9yIGFsbCBoZWxwIGFuZCBhZHZpY2UgeW91IGdpdmVuIG1lIHNpbmNlIGkgc3RhcnRlZCBwbGF5aW5nIGZvciB0aGUgdGVhbSwgcmVhbGx5IGVuam95ZWQgcGxheWluZyBhbG9uZyBzaWRlIHlvdS4gYWxsIHRoZSBiZXN0IG1hdGU=?=
          > =?ISO-8859-1?B?WUFIT08hIEdST1VQUyBMSU5LUw==?=
          >
          =?ISO-8859-1?B?VmlzaXQgeW91ciBncm91cCBIeWVuYXMgb24gdGhlIHdlYi4=?=
          >
          =?ISO-8859-1?B?VG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUgZnJvbSB0aGlzIGdyb3VwLCBzZW5kIGFuIGVtYWlsIHRvOg==?=
          >
          =?ISO-8859-1?B?SHllbmFzLXVuc3Vic2NyaWJlQHlhaG9vZ3JvdXBzLmNvbQ==?=
          >
          =?ISO-8859-1?B?WW91ciB1c2Ugb2YgWWFob28hIEdyb3VwcyBpcyBzdWJqZWN0IHRvIHRoZSBZYWhvbyEgVGVybXMgb2YgU2VydmljZSAu?=




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        • Dave Sims
          Thanks ric and will for your encouraging words i know what you are saying and i don t want to give up hockey ric but if the committee are going to make up
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 28, 2005
            Thanks ric and will for your encouraging words i know
            what you are saying and i don't want to give up hockey
            ric but if the committee are going to make up rules as
            they go along then how can any ones position be safe.
            they have not stuck to disciplinary procedures or
            even allowed me to defend myself before being found
            guilty


            Dave #10


            --- Richard Tedman <ricky.de@...> wrote:

            > Dave sims, as you know we had our little chat a few
            > weeks ago abt you and hockey etc, i dont know the
            > ins
            > and outs of your game bans but to my knowledge no
            > one
            > has ever been given game bans before,i am interested
            > to know how the ban got decided to be for
            > 4games??Anyway like i said to you before i think
            > when
            > your playing to play,and not to pick up penalties
            > that
            > you are one of the strongest more experenced d
            > players
            > i have,its a shame you feel you have to quit,i would
            > like to see you stick to fingers up at them and
            > continue playing,i know wot your going through as i
            > always play to win which is causing me problems
            > to,but
            > dont give them the satisfaction of you leaving,stay
            > work on your game,use the team to develop then next
            > year play somewhere else if your not happy with the
            > team? Just dont quit unless its wot you wanna do
            >
            > --- Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
            > <william.pearce@...> wrote:
            > >
            >
            =?ISO-8859-1?B?ZGF2ZSwgc29ycnkgdG8gaGVhciB0aGF0LCB0aGUgd2h5cyBhbmQgd2hlcmVmb3JlcyBhbmQgbm90aGluZyB0byBkbyB3aXRoIG1lLCBidXQgd2FudGVkIHRvIHNheSB0aGFua3MgZm9yIGFsbCBoZWxwIGFuZCBhZHZpY2UgeW91IGdpdmVuIG1lIHNpbmNlIGkgc3RhcnRlZCBwbGF5aW5nIGZvciB0aGUgdGVhbSwgcmVhbGx5IGVuam95ZWQgcGxheWluZyBhbG9uZyBzaWRlIHlvdS4gYWxsIHRoZSBiZXN0IG1hdGU=?=
            > > =?ISO-8859-1?B?WUFIT08hIEdST1VQUyBMSU5LUw==?=
            > >
            >
            =?ISO-8859-1?B?VmlzaXQgeW91ciBncm91cCBIeWVuYXMgb24gdGhlIHdlYi4=?=
            > >
            >
            =?ISO-8859-1?B?VG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUgZnJvbSB0aGlzIGdyb3VwLCBzZW5kIGFuIGVtYWlsIHRvOg==?=
            > >
            >
            =?ISO-8859-1?B?SHllbmFzLXVuc3Vic2NyaWJlQHlhaG9vZ3JvdXBzLmNvbQ==?=
            > >
            >
            =?ISO-8859-1?B?WW91ciB1c2Ugb2YgWWFob28hIEdyb3VwcyBpcyBzdWJqZWN0IHRvIHRoZSBZYWhvbyEgVGVybXMgb2YgU2VydmljZSAu?=
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ___________________________________________________________
            >
            > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your
            > holiday
            > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos
            > http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > Hyenas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Darrell Findlay
            Dave, obviously this has been your choice to put concerns the Committee have had with you on the public domain. We did want to keep this to a close knit
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 28, 2005
              Dave, obviously this has been your choice to put concerns the Committee have
              had with you on the public domain. We did want to keep this to a close knit
              group, but remember this was your choice, not mine.

              First point to say is that I have e-mailed you and discussed with you on the
              phone on a number of occasions, that following the written warning Pete and
              I were happy to sit down with you to discuss ways forward on all concerns.
              This was given to you as an option as you did not want to respond in
              writing. This is as per the disciplinary procedures.

              During a telephone conversation with me on the 16/17th you even agreed to
              put a defence in writing so that the Committee could resolve the concerns
              and move this forward during a Committee meeting of the 19th. You did not
              put anything in writing but kept on requesting a meeting with the whole
              Committee. This option was discussed with the Committee but it was the
              consensus that this would not help the situation and that if you were not
              going to put anything in writing that you, Pete (Sec) and I (Chairman) would
              sit down as per the disciplinary procedures. I believe that in every area
              you have had enough verbal discussions and e-mails not to have a leg to
              stand on.

              This is not the time to bring up other concerns you have about other team
              members. Instead of laying blame at other peoples feet perhaps you should
              stand up and agree things have not been right, agree or negotiate the
              penalty and then get on with playing the sport you and I love.

              On the point of the 4 match ban, firstly the disciplinary procedures are
              guidelines and will never cover for every eventuality. The whole Committee
              agreed with the way in which the disciplinary action was covered and the
              subsequent 4 game ban.

              Threatening Behaviour

              I am aware that you apologised to Dave Murray before the New York game, but
              this does not change the fact that it happened. Any other incidents you
              want to bring up have nothing to do with this and should be brought up in
              the right arena not in defence of something you have done.

              Over Aggressive Behaviour at Training and Games

              Again brining up other incidents has nothing to do with the fact that this
              has played a part in your game over the last 6 months. This has been
              discussed with you during this period by Dave, Pete and myself. During one
              training session you even gleefully told me about an illegal check you put
              in on an Oxford player. If you want to play checking hockey then your
              playing for the wrong team.

              Walking out on the New York game and not telling the Coach

              The information I originally had was wrong and on the 16th June I found this
              out I wrote to apologise to you by e-mail. This does not hide the fact that
              you left the game. What ever was said or done at that game to you should
              not warrant walking out on the team. This was even more disappointing in
              light of earlier conversation with Dave Murray and myself regarding wanting
              to play in the New York game. By leaving the game you not only let yourself
              down but also the whole team.

              Standing Order, I am aware that you have put a S/O in place to cover monthly
              subscriptions along with paying back the months you have not paid. Again
              bringing up other concerns you have over other players really does not come
              into this. Those you refer to are currently being resolved. To be blunt but
              it the players responsibility to ensure that S/O are in place and continue
              to be paid and to lay blame at someone else's doorstep yet again does not
              answer the fact that this went on for so long.

              Registration Funds

              You said that you wrote to Pete and I discussing this, which is true, as an
              e-mail was sent to me by you on the 17th April referring to amongst other
              things the registration fiasco. In this you stated that you had made people
              aware before hand that some registration details had been lost in post and
              said that you had made someone aware that you cancelled your cheque. No one
              seems to remember you having these conversations. Forgetting this for the
              time being, on the 18th April in an e-mail I suggested to you to pay back to
              the club the money you owe to the club funds held by you for over 6 months.
              It is now June, 8 months on, and still the money has not been paid even
              though a subsequent e-mail of the 24th suggesting you paid back these funds
              as a sign of good faith and to move forward on some of the concerns the
              Committee have. This appears to have been ignored. The registration funds
              were taken last year and it is totally unacceptable for you to blame other
              people for not asking for the money, even though this has been done on at
              least 2 occasions now.

              You have inferred that this a personnel thing, which it is not, I have said
              to you that all I want to do is get on with enjoying the sport I too love
              and to get the old Dave Simms back in the team.

              It would have been far easier to resolve this outside the group but you have
              made your decision to announce all to one and all.

              You inferred to team that you are being forced to leave the game you love
              but this is totally inaccurate. If you decide to leave the team this will
              be totally your decision, but we would prefer it if you would work with us
              to resolve the issues. With this in mind I would be happy to meet with you
              and Pete as already discussed on numerous occasions. Unfortunately I will
              be away for a couple of weeks from this Wed so this will have to wait until
              I return.

              Regards

              Darrell

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hyenas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Dave Sims
              Sent: 27 June 2005 19:20
              To: hyeans
              Subject: [Hyenas] sorry to let every one down


              HI all

              i regret having to sent this e-mail but i feel that i
              have no choice
              on the 15th June i received a written warning from the committee i have
              tried to arrange a meeting with the said committee but have had no joy from
              this. i had no knowledge of this warning prior to it coming out to me via
              e-mail after responding to this i was then asked to defend the points raised
              after they had given me this warning and also a 4 game ban this is not a
              club rule but something that the committee has changed without discussion
              with the team. i am very disappointed with the way that this has come about
              and done by the committee point one for warning :- threatening behaviour to
              the coach. yes i did say a few things to the coach at the heat of a moment
              which i do regret and did apologise for straight away however a certain
              player who i will not name has not just verbally threatened the coach but
              also has hit the coach on several occasions has he ever had a warning NO
              point two :- over aggressive behaviour in games and training; i think you
              all know that another person who i will not name has had far more penalties
              than me and has even abused officials and been kicked out of a game has he
              had a warning NO point three :-walking out of the New York game without
              telling anyone. this they have now found to be not true and have i had an
              apology for this NO point four:- non payment of standing order. in January
              the committee was aware that i was and still am getting a divorce and i was
              unaware that my standing order had been cancelled but as soon as i was told
              of this i went to Steve's house and filled out a standing order for a higher
              amount than everyone else to cover this prior to the warning. some people in
              the team are still not paying a standing order have they had a warning NO
              point five:- club funds for registration one registration for Danny Robinson
              was lost in the post back in November the committee was informed of this
              straight away and i sent an e-mail both to peter and Darrell and said that
              when they wanted the money just let me know and i would give it to them. yes
              i do agree i should have just handed over the money but with all that was
              going on earlier this year i simply forgot a cheque has now been sent.

              As you all can see (i hope) this has been unfair on
              me and the committee as a whole do not want to discuss
              this now because of this i feel that i can not trust
              the people who are running the club and have no option
              but to give up the game i love so much

              see you all around

              Dave Sims #10

              ps if anyone has any comments you can call me on
              07957-320646 or just e-mail back for all to see







              ___________________________________________________________
              Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with
              voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com



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            • Mike Rose
              Dave & team, As I intimated to both yourself and Darrell I am quite happy to support you through this as indeed I would any player if asked. This to ensure
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                Dave & team,

                As I intimated to both yourself and Darrell I am quite happy to support you
                through this as indeed I would any player if asked. This to ensure that the
                process is applied fairly and within the framework of the club rules.

                As the club (all parties) is insistent on airing its dirty washing in a
                public forum, here are a few things to think about.

                Lets have a look at the individual issues and where they are covered by
                existing club rules. I am not going to defend any of the actions listed,
                just having a look at the process and sharing thoughts.

                1. Standing order being cancelled (for whatever reason).

                Club rules state that if a standing order is cancelled without advice to the
                committee then the player is barred from training and games until it's
                sorted. It was also agreed at a past committee meeting that monthly checks
                of standing orders would be undertaken to ensure that all was running
                smoothly thus preventing a situation of a player owing money to the club.
                Was this applied at the time? Have issues been resolved by arrangement with
                the committee prior to the warning being issued? If the answer is yes to the
                later, should it be an issue for disciplinary, does it fit? Darrell is
                correct that concerns with other players should not be raised in this way.
                However, the setting up of a standing order is a prerequisite of joining the
                club agreed by the team at the previous seasons AGM (prior to this seasons
                registration). No standing order = not a member of the team! Basically there
                shouldn't be anyone playing for the club without a running standing order.

                2. Walking out on the New York Game.

                It is evident from both Dave and Darrell's e-mails that this has not been
                adequately investigated. How can any warning be issued without being in
                possession of the facts? Is a team-mate now guilty until proved innocent?
                Napoleon would be proud, he probably had them shot and said 'oops sorry, my
                mistake' afterwards. This of course throws into question the entire content
                of the warning as nobody can be sure it has been investigated adequately.

                3. Over aggressive behaviour in training and games

                I was interested to read that this has been going on for over 6 months!
                Surely this should have been managed a long time ago. From a process point
                of view, has anyone actually complained as per the disciplinary procedure
                (in writing, to the secretary?) Have documented verbal warnings been issued
                in line with the procedure? or is just a case of having a little word in the
                shell like? If the latter, did the player know and understand that he was
                receiving a verbal warning?

                4.Threatening behaviour

                Another interesting one. Whilst not going into the ins and outs of
                individual cases, I have got ask why this was not dealt with at an earlier
                stage. Was the coach happy with the out come? (he/she plays a big part in
                the disciplinary procedure) Again, was an official complaint made in line
                with the disciplinary procedures? Dave has a point, there have been other
                occasions where threatening behaviour has manifested it's self on the ice
                and at times physical. This should not be tolerated and must be dealt with
                at the time, not days, weeks, months down the line! There are times when
                frustration rules the head and in the majority of cases these are resolved
                between parties amicably. I would hope that if a player genuinely feels
                threatened they would approach a committee member or even another team mate
                so it can be thoroughly investigated prior to invoking the club's
                disciplinary process.

                5. Registration funds

                I happen to know a little bit about this one prior to all of this debacle
                and being a committee spat, I do not wish to embarrass any one with it on an
                open forum.

                To be quite honest, I can see why Dave wishes to address the whole committee
                based on the above points alone. The timing of the warning issue is also of
                concern. A lot of this dates back to the previous committee and should have
                been resolved by them, with Dave, in a formal manner. I makes me wonder how
                many of the new committee are actually aware of the full facts on this
                occasion or whether it is all being left to the Chair and the Secretary.

                Crime and punishment (well we can't hang em all.......can we?)

                The clubs disciplinary procedure is probably the best written process the
                club has. It is designed to ensure that the Player, committee and the club's
                interests are protected throughout the procedure. If the procedure is
                followed as written and not made to fit afterward, as it appears to have
                been done here, we wouldn't be reading these entertaining e-mails! whilst
                intentions may be good it just goes to show what happens when you deviate
                from a procedure! As the old saying goes every action has a consequence, did
                anyone really consider the consequences?

                The whole disciplinary procedure works on a system of warnings at varying
                degrees with clear steps to be taken in order. If one step is missed the
                whole thing collapses. The warnings in themselves are effectively
                punishments along the lines of three strikes and your out. It now appears
                that two punishments are being administered and you have to ask in
                principle, is this right? Who decided to amend the procedure? were the team
                involved? were the team advised?

                I would be interested as a player to know how it was decided that game bans
                are now included in the disciplinary procedure. Rick you are correct that
                this is the first time a player has been banned in this way. The reference
                to a game ban within current club rules relates to non attendance to games
                without a valid reason. Also, how was it decided that 4 games is
                appropriate?

                Even more bizarre it now seems that a player can also negotiate the length
                of ban!!!! (Napoleon's getting nervous)

                What next????????

                Whilst I cannot condone the behaviours as listed on the warning, I
                personally would like the whole committee to hear Dave's case under 'English
                law', if only due to process failures. What does the rest of the team think?
                Don't be shy, this affects the team and until all this cr@p comes to an end
                it will affect morale. This needs resolving sooner rather than later!


                That's me done for the time being, due in court in a couple of minutes perry
                mason has blown a sickie and quincey can't make it

                Mike #8.








                -----Original Message-----
                From: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hyenas@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                Darrell Findlay
                Sent: 28 June 2005 18:21
                To: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Hyenas] sorry to let every one down


                Dave, obviously this has been your choice to put concerns the Committee have
                had with you on the public domain. We did want to keep this to a close knit
                group, but remember this was your choice, not mine.

                First point to say is that I have e-mailed you and discussed with you on the
                phone on a number of occasions, that following the written warning Pete and
                I were happy to sit down with you to discuss ways forward on all concerns.
                This was given to you as an option as you did not want to respond in
                writing. This is as per the disciplinary procedures.

                During a telephone conversation with me on the 16/17th you even agreed to
                put a defence in writing so that the Committee could resolve the concerns
                and move this forward during a Committee meeting of the 19th. You did not
                put anything in writing but kept on requesting a meeting with the whole
                Committee. This option was discussed with the Committee but it was the
                consensus that this would not help the situation and that if you were not
                going to put anything in writing that you, Pete (Sec) and I (Chairman) would
                sit down as per the disciplinary procedures. I believe that in every area
                you have had enough verbal discussions and e-mails not to have a leg to
                stand on.

                This is not the time to bring up other concerns you have about other team
                members. Instead of laying blame at other peoples feet perhaps you should
                stand up and agree things have not been right, agree or negotiate the
                penalty and then get on with playing the sport you and I love.

                On the point of the 4 match ban, firstly the disciplinary procedures are
                guidelines and will never cover for every eventuality. The whole Committee
                agreed with the way in which the disciplinary action was covered and the
                subsequent 4 game ban.

                Threatening Behaviour

                I am aware that you apologised to Dave Murray before the New York game, but
                this does not change the fact that it happened. Any other incidents you
                want to bring up have nothing to do with this and should be brought up in
                the right arena not in defence of something you have done.

                Over Aggressive Behaviour at Training and Games

                Again brining up other incidents has nothing to do with the fact that this
                has played a part in your game over the last 6 months. This has been
                discussed with you during this period by Dave, Pete and myself. During one
                training session you even gleefully told me about an illegal check you put
                in on an Oxford player. If you want to play checking hockey then your
                playing for the wrong team.

                Walking out on the New York game and not telling the Coach

                The information I originally had was wrong and on the 16th June I found this
                out I wrote to apologise to you by e-mail. This does not hide the fact that
                you left the game. What ever was said or done at that game to you should
                not warrant walking out on the team. This was even more disappointing in
                light of earlier conversation with Dave Murray and myself regarding wanting
                to play in the New York game. By leaving the game you not only let yourself
                down but also the whole team.

                Standing Order, I am aware that you have put a S/O in place to cover monthly
                subscriptions along with paying back the months you have not paid. Again
                bringing up other concerns you have over other players really does not come
                into this. Those you refer to are currently being resolved. To be blunt but
                it the players responsibility to ensure that S/O are in place and continue
                to be paid and to lay blame at someone else's doorstep yet again does not
                answer the fact that this went on for so long.

                Registration Funds

                You said that you wrote to Pete and I discussing this, which is true, as an
                e-mail was sent to me by you on the 17th April referring to amongst other
                things the registration fiasco. In this you stated that you had made people
                aware before hand that some registration details had been lost in post and
                said that you had made someone aware that you cancelled your cheque. No one
                seems to remember you having these conversations. Forgetting this for the
                time being, on the 18th April in an e-mail I suggested to you to pay back to
                the club the money you owe to the club funds held by you for over 6 months.
                It is now June, 8 months on, and still the money has not been paid even
                though a subsequent e-mail of the 24th suggesting you paid back these funds
                as a sign of good faith and to move forward on some of the concerns the
                Committee have. This appears to have been ignored. The registration funds
                were taken last year and it is totally unacceptable for you to blame other
                people for not asking for the money, even though this has been done on at
                least 2 occasions now.

                You have inferred that this a personnel thing, which it is not, I have said
                to you that all I want to do is get on with enjoying the sport I too love
                and to get the old Dave Simms back in the team.

                It would have been far easier to resolve this outside the group but you have
                made your decision to announce all to one and all.

                You inferred to team that you are being forced to leave the game you love
                but this is totally inaccurate. If you decide to leave the team this will
                be totally your decision, but we would prefer it if you would work with us
                to resolve the issues. With this in mind I would be happy to meet with you
                and Pete as already discussed on numerous occasions. Unfortunately I will
                be away for a couple of weeks from this Wed so this will have to wait until
                I return.

                Regards

                Darrell

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hyenas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Dave Sims
                Sent: 27 June 2005 19:20
                To: hyeans
                Subject: [Hyenas] sorry to let every one down


                HI all

                i regret having to sent this e-mail but i feel that i
                have no choice
                on the 15th June i received a written warning from the committee i have
                tried to arrange a meeting with the said committee but have had no joy from
                this. i had no knowledge of this warning prior to it coming out to me via
                e-mail after responding to this i was then asked to defend the points raised
                after they had given me this warning and also a 4 game ban this is not a
                club rule but something that the committee has changed without discussion
                with the team. i am very disappointed with the way that this has come about
                and done by the committee point one for warning :- threatening behaviour to
                the coach. yes i did say a few things to the coach at the heat of a moment
                which i do regret and did apologise for straight away however a certain
                player who i will not name has not just verbally threatened the coach but
                also has hit the coach on several occasions has he ever had a warning NO
                point two :- over aggressive behaviour in games and training; i think you
                all know that another person who i will not name has had far more penalties
                than me and has even abused officials and been kicked out of a game has he
                had a warning NO point three :-walking out of the New York game without
                telling anyone. this they have now found to be not true and have i had an
                apology for this NO point four:- non payment of standing order. in January
                the committee was aware that i was and still am getting a divorce and i was
                unaware that my standing order had been cancelled but as soon as i was told
                of this i went to Steve's house and filled out a standing order for a higher
                amount than everyone else to cover this prior to the warning. some people in
                the team are still not paying a standing order have they had a warning NO
                point five:- club funds for registration one registration for Danny Robinson
                was lost in the post back in November the committee was informed of this
                straight away and i sent an e-mail both to peter and Darrell and said that
                when they wanted the money just let me know and i would give it to them. yes
                i do agree i should have just handed over the money but with all that was
                going on earlier this year i simply forgot a cheque has now been sent.

                As you all can see (i hope) this has been unfair on
                me and the committee as a whole do not want to discuss
                this now because of this i feel that i can not trust
                the people who are running the club and have no option
                but to give up the game i love so much

                see you all around

                Dave Sims #10

                ps if anyone has any comments you can call me on
                07957-320646 or just e-mail back for all to see







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              • Richard Dedman
                I believe dave simms should be aloud to have his case listened to infont of the whole commity with all the facts being given, this does not mean i agree with
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                  I believe dave simms should be aloud to have his case listened to infont of the whole commity with all the facts being given, this does not mean i agree with his actions but i believe he should be aloud a fair hearing because of all thats happened recently.
                   
                   
                   
                  refering to the email that darrell seems unable to recieve and after reading DARRELL and DAVES emails,i have
                   been having a good old think abt the team and way things are going etc and ive gotta say the club is in the worst state i have ever seen it, i remember when i first joined etc, we were a team of mixed ability,ages and sex, but we all got on with tasks needed everything ran smoothly and i couldnt wait for sunday nights, we went to games with positive attitudes,all happy and really up for having some laughs, but the biggest difference was we went to play hockey, we never cared wot the final score was as long as we all tried our best, this is wot made playing fun.... there was no bitching amongst players or abt the team, if there was a problem it was addressed and sorted,now i look at the club and there are players bitching and moaning behind peoples backs, players and myself are very unhappy,we get told nothing by the commity,and all in all things are really bad.y is this??
                  well from the point of view i have its mainly to do with the way things are being run, lets take the committy, bearing in mind this is my own view, it seems to me that loads is done behind players backs, lets take dave simms did the team know he had a 4 game ban??were we told abt it??were we asked if we thought he should recieve a ban and for how long??
                  i dont remember being asked,and as the commity is meant to make decisions on behalf of the team how can they do this without the teams knowledge???
                   
                  As for Dave walking out of the new york game i feel i am partly responsible for that as i kicked off at him big time,using abusive and threatening behaviour. Now Darrell knows this as we had a chat abt it in the bison changing room, and i openly admitted to it and said i would take any warnings given to me, but Darrell said this wouldnt be happening, so does this mean its one rule for one and another for someone else??Does the commity who are the ones making the decision on behalf of the team know of this incident??if not wot else havent u been told??
                  Can someon plz let me know if i have ever had a verbal warning as i dont want whats happening to dave to happen to me, how would any one off the team feel if this was all going on but it was them rather than dave??
                   
                  I had a meeting with Darrell and Pete a while after the agm to try and sort out a few problems i have regarding stuff with the team and i though i had maybe got somewhere but so far all my questions asked of them have not been responded to, this makes me believe they only respond to wot they feel like, is this good for the team??
                  while i was in my meeting i mentioned other players were unhappy, there response was well get them to complain then, i know most of u guys dont like to get involved in all this but if u have something that is bothereing will u please email it, im not here trying to defend dave as i dont know all the ins and outs of this case but i believe now is the time everyone needs to get everything off there chest so as a team we can move forward.
                  i really cant belive this is the way the hyenas has gone we used to be envied by all other teams for the way things ran and the effort etc, now were the laughing stock of the rec world.
                  i would also like to ask u guys if u would be kind enough to email if u believe dave simms should be heard by the whole commity to try and sort all this out not just darrell and pete as they wanted,remember next time this could be u!!

                  rik
                  Mike Rose <mike_rose@...> wrote:
                  Dave & team,

                  As I intimated to both yourself and Darrell I am quite happy to support you
                  through this as indeed I would any player if asked. This to ensure that the
                  process is applied fairly and within the framework of the club rules.

                  As the club (all parties) is insistent on airing its dirty washing in a
                  public forum, here are a few things to think about.

                  Lets have a look at the individual issues and where they are covered by
                  existing club rules. I am not going to defend any of the actions listed,
                  just having a look at the process and sharing thoughts.

                  1. Standing order being cancelled (for whatever reason).

                  Club rules state that if a standing order is cancelled without advice to the
                  committee then the player is barred from training and games until it's
                  sorted. It was also agreed at a past committee meeting that monthly checks
                  of standing orders would be undertaken to ensure that all was running
                  smoothly thus preventing a situation of a player owing money to the club.
                  Was this applied at the time? Have issues been resolved by arrangement with
                  the committee prior to the warning being issued? If the answer is yes to the
                  later, should it be an issue for disciplinary, does it fit? Darrell is
                  correct that concerns with other players should not be raised in this way.
                  However, the setting up of a standing order is a prerequisite of joining the
                  club agreed by the team at the previous seasons AGM (prior to this seasons
                  registration). No standing order = not a member of the team! Basically there
                  shouldn't be anyone playing for the club without a running standing order.

                  2. Walking out on the New York Game.

                  It is evident from both Dave and Darrell's e-mails that this has not been
                  adequately investigated. How can any warning be issued without being in
                  possession of the facts? Is a team-mate now guilty until proved innocent?
                  Napoleon would be proud, he probably had them shot and said 'oops sorry, my
                  mistake' afterwards. This of course throws into question the entire content
                  of the warning as nobody can be sure it has been investigated adequately.

                  3. Over aggressive behaviour in training and games

                  I was interested to read that this has been going on for over 6 months!
                  Surely this should have been managed a long time ago. From a process point
                  of view, has anyone actually complained as per the disciplinary procedure
                  (in writing, to the secretary?) Have documented verbal warnings been issued
                  in line with the procedure? or is just a case of having a little word in the
                  shell like? If the latter, did the player know and understand that he was
                  receiving a verbal warning?

                  4.Threatening behaviour

                  Another interesting one. Whilst not going into the ins and outs of
                  individual cases, I have got ask why this was not dealt with at an earlier
                  stage. Was the coach happy with the out come? (he/she plays a big part in
                  the disciplinary procedure) Again, was an official complaint made in line
                  with the disciplinary procedures? Dave has a point, there have been other
                  occasions where threatening behaviour has manifested it's self on the ice
                  and at times physical. This should not be tolerated and must be dealt with
                  at the time, not days, weeks, months down the line! There are times when
                  frustration rules the head and in the majority of cases these are resolved
                  between parties amicably. I would hope that if a player genuinely feels
                  threatened they would approach a committee member or even another team mate
                  so it can be thoroughly investigated prior to invoking the club's
                  disciplinary process.

                  5. Registration funds

                  I happen to know a little bit about this one prior to all of this debacle
                  and being a committee spat, I do not wish to embarrass any one with it on an
                  open forum.

                  To be quite honest, I can see why Dave wishes to address the whole committee
                  based on the above points alone. The timing of the warning issue is also of
                  concern. A lot of this dates back to the previous committee and should have
                  been resolved by them, with Dave, in a formal manner. I makes me wonder how
                  many of the new committee are actually aware of the full facts on this
                  occasion or whether it is all being left to the Chair and the Secretary.

                  Crime and punishment (well we can't hang em all.......can we?)

                  The clubs disciplinary procedure is probably the best written process the
                  club has. It is designed to ensure that the Player, committee and the club's
                  interests are protected throughout the procedure. If the procedure is
                  followed as written and not made to fit afterward, as it appears to have
                  been done here, we wouldn't be reading these entertaining e-mails! whilst
                  intentions may be good it just goes to show what happens when you deviate
                  from a procedure! As the old saying goes every action has a consequence, did
                  anyone really consider the consequences?

                  The whole disciplinary procedure works on a system of warnings at varying
                  degrees with clear steps to be taken in order. If one step is missed the
                  whole thing collapses. The warnings in themselves are effectively
                  punishments along the lines of three strikes and your out. It now appears
                  that two punishments are being administered and you have to ask in
                  principle, is this right? Who decided to amend the procedure? were the team
                  involved? were the team advised?

                  I would be interested as a player to know how it was decided that game bans
                  are now included in the disciplinary procedure. Rick you are correct that
                  this is the first time a player has been banned in this way. The reference
                  to a game ban within current club rules relates to non attendance to games
                  without a valid reason. Also, how was it decided that 4 games is
                  appropriate?

                  Even more bizarre it now seems that a player can also negotiate the length
                  of ban!!!! (Napoleon's getting nervous)

                  What next????????

                  Whilst I cannot condone the behaviours as listed on the warning, I
                  personally would like the whole committee to hear Dave's case under 'English
                  law', if only due to process failures. What does the rest of the team think?
                  Don't be shy, this affects the team and until all this cr@p comes to an end
                  it will affect morale. This needs resolving sooner rather than later!


                  That's me done for the time being, due in court in a couple of minutes perry
                  mason has blown a sickie and quincey can't make it

                  Mike #8.








                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hyenas@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                  Darrell Findlay
                  Sent: 28 June 2005 18:21
                  To: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [Hyenas] sorry to let every one down


                  Dave, obviously this has been your choice to put concerns the Committee have
                  had with you on the public domain. We did want to keep this to a close knit
                  group, but remember this was your choice, not mine.

                  First point to say is that I have e-mailed you and discussed with you on the
                  phone on a number of occasions, that following the written warning Pete and
                  I were happy to sit down with you to discuss ways forward on all concerns.
                  This was given to you as an option as you did not want to respond in
                  writing. This is as per the disciplinary procedures.

                  During a telephone conversation with me on the 16/17th you even agreed to
                  put a defence in writing so that the Committee could resolve the concerns
                  and move this forward during a Committee meeting of the 19th. You did not
                  put anything in writing but kept on requesting a meeting with the whole
                  Committee. This option was discussed with the Committee but it was the
                  consensus that this would not help the situation and that if you were not
                  going to put anything in writing that you, Pete (Sec) and I (Chairman) would
                  sit down as per the disciplinary procedures. I believe that in every area
                  you have had enough verbal discussions and e-mails not to have a leg to
                  stand on.

                  This is not the time to bring up other concerns you have about other team
                  members. Instead of laying blame at other peoples feet perhaps you should
                  stand up and agree things have not been right, agree or negotiate the
                  penalty and then get on with playing the sport you and I love.

                  On the point of the 4 match ban, firstly the disciplinary procedures are
                  guidelines and will never cover for every eventuality. The whole Committee
                  agreed with the way in which the disciplinary action was covered and the
                  subsequent 4 game ban.

                  Threatening Behaviour

                  I am aware that you apologised to Dave Murray before the New York game, but
                  this does not change the fact that it happened. Any other incidents you
                  want to bring up have nothing to do with this and should be brought up in
                  the right arena not in defence of something you have done.

                  Over Aggressive Behaviour at Training and Games

                  Again brining up other incidents has nothing to do with the fact that this
                  has played a part in your game over the last 6 months. This has been
                  discussed with you during this period by Dave, Pete and myself. During one
                  training session you even gleefully told me about an illegal check you put
                  in on an Oxford player. If you want to play checking hockey then your
                  playing for the wrong team.

                  Walking out on the New York game and not telling the Coach

                  The information I originally had was wrong and on the 16th June I found this
                  out I wrote to apologise to you by e-mail. This does not hide the fact that
                  you left the game. What ever was said or done at that game to you should
                  not warrant walking out on the team. This was even more disappointing in
                  light of earlier conversation with Dave Murray and myself regarding wanting
                  to play in the New York game. By leaving the game you not only let yourself
                  down but also the whole team.

                  Standing Order, I am aware that you have put a S/O in place to cover monthly
                  subscriptions along with paying back the months you have not paid. Again
                  bringing up other concerns you have over other players really does not come
                  into this. Those you refer to are currently being resolved. To be blunt but
                  it the players responsibility to ensure that S/O are in place and continue
                  to be paid and to lay blame at someone else's doorstep yet again does not
                  answer the fact that this went on for so long.

                  Registration Funds

                  You said that you wrote to Pete and I discussing this, which is true, as an
                  e-mail was sent to me by you on the 17th April referring to amongst other
                  things the registration fiasco. In this you stated that you had made people
                  aware before hand that some registration details had been lost in post and
                  said that you had made someone aware that you cancelled your cheque. No one
                  seems to remember you having these conversations. Forgetting this for the
                  time being, on the 18th April in an e-mail I suggested to you to pay back to
                  the club the money you owe to the club funds held by you for over 6 months.
                  It is now June, 8 months on, and still the money has not been paid even
                  though a subsequent e-mail of the 24th suggesting you paid back these funds
                  as a sign of good faith and to move forward on some of the concerns the
                  Committee have. This appears to have been ignored. The registration funds
                  were taken last year and it is totally unacceptable for you to blame other
                  people for not asking for the money, even though this has been done on at
                  least 2 occasions now.

                  You have inferred that this a personnel thing, which it is not, I have said
                  to you that all I want to do is get on with enjoying the sport I too love
                  and to get the old Dave Simms back in the team.

                  It would have been far easier to resolve this outside the group but you have
                  made your decision to announce all to one and all.

                  You inferred to team that you are being forced to leave the game you love
                  but this is totally inaccurate. If you decide to leave the team this will
                  be totally your decision, but we would prefer it if you would work with us
                  to resolve the issues. With this in mind I would be happy to meet with you
                  and Pete as already discussed on numerous occasions. Unfortunately I will
                  be away for a couple of weeks from this Wed so this will have to wait until
                  I return.

                  Regards

                  Darrell

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hyenas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Dave Sims
                  Sent: 27 June 2005 19:20
                  To: hyeans
                  Subject: [Hyenas] sorry to let every one down


                  HI all

                  i regret having to sent this e-mail but i feel that i
                  have no choice
                  on the 15th June i received a written warning from the committee i have
                  tried to arrange a meeting with the said committee but have had no joy from
                  this. i had no knowledge of this warning prior to it coming out to me via
                  e-mail after responding to this i was then asked to defend the points raised
                  after they had given me this warning and also a 4 game ban this is not a
                  club rule but something that the committee has changed without discussion
                  with the team. i am very disappointed with the way that this has come about
                  and done by the committee point one for warning :- threatening behaviour to
                  the coach. yes i did say a few things to the coach at the heat of a moment
                  which i do regret and did apologise for straight away however a certain
                  player who i will not name has not just verbally threatened the coach but
                  also has hit the coach on several occasions has he ever had a warning NO
                  point two :- over aggressive behaviour in games and training; i think you
                  all know that another person who i will not name has had far more penalties
                  than me and has even abused officials and been kicked out of a game has he
                  had a warning NO point three :-walking out of the New York game without
                  telling anyone. this they have now found to be not true and have i had an
                  apology for this NO point four:- non payment of standing order. in January
                  the committee was aware that i was and still am getting a divorce and i was
                  unaware that my standing order had been cancelled but as soon as i was told
                  of this i went to Steve's house and filled out a standing order for a higher
                  amount than everyone else to cover this prior to the warning. some people in
                  the team are still not paying a standing order have they had a warning NO
                  point five:- club funds for registration one registration for Danny Robinson
                  was lost in the post back in November the committee was informed of this
                  straight away and i sent an e-mail both to peter and Darrell and said that
                  when they wanted the money just let me know and i would give it to them. yes
                  i do agree i should have just handed over the money but with all that was
                  going on earlier this year i simply forgot a cheque has now been sent.

                  As you all can see (i hope) this has been unfair on
                  me and the committee as a whole do not want to discuss
                  this now because of this i feel that i can not trust
                  the people who are running the club and have no option
                  but to give up the game i love so much

                  see you all around

                  Dave Sims #10

                  ps if anyone has any comments you can call me on
                  07957-320646 or just e-mail back for all to see







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                • Compton93@aol.com
                  sorry but i can no longer sit and watch all the rubbish coming out on email the committee was voted in by the members if you were not happy with any one you
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                    sorry but i can no longer sit and watch all the rubbish coming out on email the committee was voted in by the members if you were not happy with any one you should have come to the agm and had your say as for players winning and bitching your right i was one of the founding members of the club and things have changed a lot since then but it seems to me its the same few players doing all the winging by a few i mean 3 . it concerns me that these players seem to be on a witch hunt for our chairman for what reason i don't know but if things are so bad there is an easy way out leave the club if not get on with enjoying the game this is a pay to play team lets not forget its for fun
                    Andy
                  • Richard Dedman
                    best name the three then andy. and the reason i did not attend the agm was i was stuck on the m25, i had no intention of coming because i would have slagged
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                      best name the three then andy.
                      and the reason i did not attend the agm was i was stuck on the m25, i had no intention of coming because i would have slagged off certain players to there faces and it wouldnt of helped anyone!!!
                      as for being on a witch hunt,ur wrong but i know my opinion is that its a Darrell and Pete show, and wot they say the rest of the ommittee just agress with to try and keep the peace.I believe Darrell is dividing the club in half and i openly admit thats my belief.i find it really funny that the old school people of the hyeans stick together all the time and to be honest andy u have been back for two mins and dont know the score on wots been going on. there are a lot of players with concerns and i hope they will be as honest as u and me and air there thoughts
                       
                      NOW LETS NOT FORGET THE IDEA HERE IS TO SEE IF THE TEAM BELIEVES THAT DAVE SIMS SHOULD BE ALOUD TO PUT HIS CASE FORWARD TO THE COMMITTEE ABT ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED.AS HE BELIEVES IT HASNT BEEN DEALT WITH IN THE RIGHT MANNER and from wot i have seen nor do i
                       
                      rik

                      sorry but i can no longer sit and watch all the rubbish coming out on email the committee was voted in by the members if you were not happy with any one you should have come to the agm and had your say as for players winning and bitching your right i was one of the founding members of the club and things have changed a lot since then but it seems to me its the same few players doing all the winging by a few i mean 3 . it concerns me that these players seem to be on a witch hunt for our chairman for what reason i don't know but if things are so bad there is an easy way out leave the club if not get on with enjoying the game this is a pay to play team lets not forget its for fun
                      Andy


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                    • Compton93@aol.com
                      rik your right i am old school and i don t do my dirty washing in public if you want to speak to me about my opinions do it sunday night as with dave i
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                        rik your right i am old school and i don't do my dirty washing in public  if you want to speak to me about my opinions do it sunday night as with dave i would be sorry to see him go he's been with the club a long time but the committee was voted by the players to make decisions for the team if there is a problem there then its up to dave to meet with the committee and sort it you and every one else was aware of the agm if it men't so much you should have made sure you were there as for not being able to control your self in the said meeting remember this is an adult team and we should all act like responsible adults
                      • Dave Key
                        Dear all, Personally I would like to play Hockey ... but since that does not seem to be the current preferred game being played perhaps reference to the rules
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005

                          Dear all,

                          Personally I would like to play Hockey ... but since that does not seem to be the current preferred game being played perhaps reference to the rules might help ?

                          Basingstoke Hyenas Ice Hockey Club
                          Constitution
                          5. Any member may call a Special Meeting with reference to Club matters providing notice is given in writing to all members 21 days prior to the meeting and seconded by seven other members.


                          Do it
                          Discuss it there
                          Get over it


                          Email is not the fora for this debate ... please!



                          Now then about Saturday ... sorry to keep dragging it back to that ;-)  ....
                          Who are we playing again?
                          Does anyone know much about them?
                          Any suggestions on how best to approach the game (other than by driving up the M3) ??
                           

                          I don't care if we win just so long as Neil doesn't film me forgetting to stop at the bench gate again ;-)

                          Cheers
                          Dave
                        • Dave Sims
                          Hi all well i just thought i would send a quick message to you all from an outsiders point of view (not a biast one either). I ve been reading all these emails
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                            Hi all

                            well i just thought i would send a quick message to
                            you all from an outsiders point of view (not a biast
                            one either).
                            I've been reading all these emails that have been
                            coming from Darrell and to be perfectly honest from
                            what i can see he hasn't got much of an idea on how to
                            dicipline players according to the rules.
                            Dave should have been allowed to meet with the whole
                            committee and have his say on the matter before they
                            hung him out to dry and gave him such a stupid ban.
                            I just wanna say thanks to you Rik for standing up for
                            him and saying your piece and i myself agree with
                            everything you said aswell as the email that Mike sent
                            too.
                            I also believe that if you are going to have one rule
                            for one person it should also apply to the WHOLE team
                            including the commitee members.


                            Sarah
                            --- Richard Dedman <ricky.de@...> wrote:

                            > best name the three then andy.
                            > and the reason i did not attend the agm was i was
                            > stuck on the m25, i had no intention of coming
                            > because i would have slagged off certain players to
                            > there faces and it wouldnt of helped anyone!!!
                            > as for being on a witch hunt,ur wrong but i know my
                            > opinion is that its a Darrell and Pete show, and wot
                            > they say the rest of the ommittee just agress with
                            > to try and keep the peace.I believe Darrell is
                            > dividing the club in half and i openly admit thats
                            > my belief.i find it really funny that the old school
                            > people of the hyeans stick together all the time and
                            > to be honest andy u have been back for two mins and
                            > dont know the score on wots been going on. there are
                            > a lot of players with concerns and i hope they will
                            > be as honest as u and me and air there thoughts
                            >
                            > NOW LETS NOT FORGET THE IDEA HERE IS TO SEE IF THE
                            > TEAM BELIEVES THAT DAVE SIMS SHOULD BE ALOUD TO PUT
                            > HIS CASE FORWARD TO THE COMMITTEE ABT ALL THAT HAS
                            > HAPPENED.AS HE BELIEVES IT HASNT BEEN DEALT WITH IN
                            > THE RIGHT MANNER and from wot i have seen nor do i
                            >
                            > rik
                            >
                            >
                            > sorry but i can no longer sit and watch all the
                            > rubbish coming out on email the committee was voted
                            > in by the members if you were not happy with any one
                            > you should have come to the agm and had your say as
                            > for players winning and bitching your right i was
                            > one of the founding members of the club and things
                            > have changed a lot since then but it seems to me its
                            > the same few players doing all the winging by a few
                            > i mean 3 . it concerns me that these players seem to
                            > be on a witch hunt for our chairman for what reason
                            > i don't know but if things are so bad there is an
                            > easy way out leave the club if not get on with
                            > enjoying the game this is a pay to play team lets
                            > not forget its for fun
                            > Andy
                            >
                            >
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                          • Darrell Findlay
                            Rik, I am just about to leave for Florida, and sadly stressed not because of work but because of Hockey. I just want to re-enforce what I said earlier. I and
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                              Message
                              Rik, I am just about to leave for Florida, and sadly stressed not because of work but because of Hockey.  I just want to re-enforce what I said earlier.  I and the Committee want Dave to stay in the club, I have said this on e-mail time and time again.  Dave agreed to put a written defence together, as I said in my previous e-mail, so all the Committee could discuss his concerns during a Committee meeting that was on the 19th.  He did not.  After this Dave asked to see all the Committee, I spoke to all the Committee to see if they wanted this to happen.  They did not, and we suggested meeting Dave as per the Disciplinary procedures, end of story.
                               
                              This is not the Darrell and Pete show and never will be and I take offence when you infer this.   
                               
                              I'm not going to repeat myself again over Dave's issues, it was his decision to open it up to the group, not mine. 
                               
                              Andy was right in his e-mail, if you thought the Committee were not doing a good job then the AGM was the arena to put yourself forward.  You were actually around at the rink during the AGM and could have come in but chose not to.  Although you were late you could have had some input and put yourself forward for a role on the Committee and had a chance to change things if you thought things were so bad.  This was your choice but don't bleat on now about how bad things are, because the only thing wrong with the club is the constant winging from a minority of the club members including yourself, which you have openly admitted.
                               
                              You have also inferred that I am ignoring your previous e-mail when I have not seen it, I also take offence at this.
                               
                              The Hyenas Constitution does state that the Committee shall have the power to take decisions on behalf of the membership regarding all interests involving the club to assist in the smooth running of the Club.  The way I interpret this is this is that the Committee do not need to consult with the team on every matter.  I would add that this would especially be the case when it comes to a disciplinary procedure, which you would normally want to keep to the knowledge of a minimum number of people, i.e. the Committee, the accused and support person. 
                               
                              The Constitution also states that a member can call a special meeting with reference to Club matters providing notice is given in writing to all members 21 days prior to the meeting and is seconded by seven other members.  With this in mind you have an opportunity of calling a special meeting.  So here is your opportunity to get the seven members together and write this letter and forward onto all the Committee members, as I will be away until the 18th July.
                               
                              Mike, you make some good points of which I would like to spend more time responding to, but time does not allow this.  I just want to say that all the Committee agreed to all that happened in relation to Dave and think that we have kept to the spirit of the disciplinary procedures.  If the team thinks that this has been carried out inappropriately then I will happily resign from the Chairman's role and leave the Club and play Hockey elsewhere.
                               
                              Regards

                              Darrell
                               
                               -----Original Message-----
                              From: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hyenas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dedman
                              Sent: 29 June 2005 17:36
                              To: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Hyenas] sorry to let every one down

                              best name the three then andy.
                              and the reason i did not attend the agm was i was stuck on the m25, i had no intention of coming because i would have slagged off certain players to there faces and it wouldnt of helped anyone!!!
                              as for being on a witch hunt,ur wrong but i know my opinion is that its a Darrell and Pete show, and wot they say the rest of the ommittee just agress with to try and keep the peace.I believe Darrell is dividing the club in half and i openly admit thats my belief.i find it really funny that the old school people of the hyeans stick together all the time and to be honest andy u have been back for two mins and dont know the score on wots been going on. there are a lot of players with concerns and i hope they will be as honest as u and me and air there thoughts
                               
                              NOW LETS NOT FORGET THE IDEA HERE IS TO SEE IF THE TEAM BELIEVES THAT DAVE SIMS SHOULD BE ALOUD TO PUT HIS CASE FORWARD TO THE COMMITTEE ABT ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED.AS HE BELIEVES IT HASNT BEEN DEALT WITH IN THE RIGHT MANNER and from wot i have seen nor do i
                               
                              rik

                              sorry but i can no longer sit and watch all the rubbish coming out on email the committee was voted in by the members if you were not happy with any one you should have come to the agm and had your say as for players winning and bitching your right i was one of the founding members of the club and things have changed a lot since then but it seems to me its the same few players doing all the winging by a few i mean 3 . it concerns me that these players seem to be on a witch hunt for our chairman for what reason i don't know but if things are so bad there is an easy way out leave the club if not get on with enjoying the game this is a pay to play team lets not forget its for fun
                              Andy


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                            • Richard Dedman
                              Andy, my problem is the way this whole matter has been dealt with, i know for certain dave sims has asked for a meeting with the whole committee but was told
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                                Andy, my problem is the way this whole matter has been
                                dealt with, i know for certain dave sims has asked for
                                a meeting with the whole committee but was told it was
                                Darrell and pete or nothing which is why this has been
                                put on public forum! Please do not think i am
                                defending daves actions i just believe he should get a
                                fair trial, i personally want dave to continue playing
                                how he was six months ago as i honestly believe he was
                                and still could be one of my strongest d
                                players.something i believe we would all agree we
                                need! Its just my personal opinion he should be aloud
                                to play games till he has met with the committee. As
                                Darrell is now away for two weeks! Wot does the team
                                think? Remember the committee acts on wot we all want
                                etc etc?

                                --- Hyenas@yahoogroups.com <Compton93@...> wrote:
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?cmlrIHlvdXIgcmlnaHQgaSBhbSBvbGQgc2Nob29sIGFuZCBpIGRvbid0IGRvIG15IGRpcnR5IHdhc2hpbmcgaW4gcHVibGljIGlmIA0=?=
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?eW91IHdhbnQgdG8gc3BlYWsgdG8gbWUgYWJvdXQgbXkgb3BpbmlvbnMgZG8gaXQgc3VuZGF5IG5pZ2h0IGFzIHdpdGggZGF2ZSBpIA0=?=
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?d291bGQgYmUgc29ycnkgdG8gc2VlIGhpbSBnbyBoZSdzIGJlZW4gd2l0aCB0aGUgY2x1YiBhIGxvbmcgdGltZSBidXQgdGhlIA0=?=
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?Y29tbWl0dGVlIHdhcyB2b3RlZCBieSB0aGUgcGxheWVycyB0byBtYWtlIGRlY2lzaW9ucyBmb3IgdGhlIHRlYW0gaWYgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSAN?=
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?cHJvYmxlbSB0aGVyZSB0aGVuIGl0cyB1cCB0byBkYXZlIHRvIG1lZXQgd2l0aCB0aGUgY29tbWl0dGVlIGFuZCBzb3J0IGl0IHlvdSAN?=
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?YW5kIGV2ZXJ5IG9uZSBlbHNlIHdhcyBhd2FyZSBvZiB0aGUgYWdtIGlmIGl0IG1lbid0IHNvIG11Y2ggeW91IHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIA0=?=
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?bWFkZSBzdXJlIHlvdSB3ZXJlIHRoZXJlIGFzIGZvciBub3QgYmVpbmcgYWJsZSB0byBjb250cm9sIHlvdXIgc2VsZiBpbiB0aGUgc2FpZCAN?=
                                >
                                =?US-ASCII?B?bWVldGluZyByZW1lbWJlciB0aGlzIGlzIGFuIGFkdWx0IHRlYW0gYW5kIHdlIHNob3VsZCBhbGwgYWN0IGxpa2UgDQ==?=
                                > =?US-ASCII?B?cmVzcG9uc2libGUgYWR1bHRzIA0=?=




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                              • Compton93@aol.com
                                Darrel you and the committee are doing a great job as far as i am concerned keep up the good work i am sure the team apart from a few feel the same way and
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                                  Darrel you and the committee are doing a great job as far as i am concerned keep up the good work i am sure the team apart from a few feel the same way and have a great holiday i guess you are taking your clubs along you have a very understanding wife
                                  Andy
                                • Andy Murray
                                  Yeah Dave about that hockey thing.... Its one of the Slough teams we are playing thats all i know, i believe the Tornadoes ? are the best team but there is a
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                                    Yeah Dave about that hockey thing....

                                    Its one of the Slough teams we are playing thats all i know, i believe the
                                    Tornadoes ? are the best team but there is a fairly new team called the
                                    Satans, i don't know much but am led to believe the Tornadoes have a number
                                    of imports on their team so would expect them to be of some quality.

                                    As for approaching the game.... play some inspirational music in the car ;)
                                    Eye of the tiger or something along those lines is always a good bet but you
                                    must remember you are not Rocky!

                                    Andy

                                    >From: Dave Key <dave_key@...>
                                    >Reply-To: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: [Hyenas] Rule 5
                                    >Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:26:40 +0100
                                    >
                                    >Dear all,
                                    >
                                    >Personally I would like to play Hockey ... but since that does not seem to
                                    >be the current preferred game being played perhaps reference to the rules
                                    >might help ?
                                    >
                                    >Basingstoke Hyenas Ice Hockey Club
                                    >Constitution
                                    >5. Any member may call a Special Meeting with reference to Club matters
                                    >providing notice is given in writing to all members 21 days prior to the
                                    >meeting and seconded by seven other members.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Do it
                                    >Discuss it there
                                    >Get over it
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Email is not the fora for this debate ... please!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Now then about Saturday ... sorry to keep dragging it back to that ;-)
                                    >....
                                    >Who are we playing again?
                                    >Does anyone know much about them?
                                    >Any suggestions on how best to approach the game (other than by driving up
                                    >the M3) ??
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >I don't care if we win just so long as Neil doesn't film me forgetting to
                                    >stop at the bench gate again ;-)
                                    >
                                    >Cheers
                                    >Dave
                                  • Dave Sims
                                    all i am asking is to be heard fair and square by the committee that made this decision nothing else you all made this decision so now at least hear what i
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jun 29, 2005
                                      all i am asking is to be heard fair and square by the
                                      committee that made this decision nothing else you all
                                      made this decision so now at least hear what i have to
                                      say about it and as darrell is off that still leaves a
                                      majority so lets get this sorted and stop messing
                                      around and making up rules and bans as we go along
                                      even if you don't want me to come back i don't want
                                      anyone else to go through this it is not fair on the
                                      players

                                      Dave #10
                                      --- Darrell Findlay
                                      <Darrell.Findlay@...> wrote:

                                      > Rik, I am just about to leave for Florida, and sadly
                                      > stressed not because of
                                      > work but because of Hockey. I just want to
                                      > re-enforce what I said earlier.
                                      > I and the Committee want Dave to stay in the club, I
                                      > have said this on
                                      > e-mail time and time again. Dave agreed to put a
                                      > written defence together,
                                      > as I said in my previous e-mail, so all the
                                      > Committee could discuss his
                                      > concerns during a Committee meeting that was on the
                                      > 19th. He did not.
                                      > After this Dave asked to see all the Committee, I
                                      > spoke to all the Committee
                                      > to see if they wanted this to happen. They did not,
                                      > and we suggested
                                      > meeting Dave as per the Disciplinary procedures, end
                                      > of story.
                                      >
                                      > This is not the Darrell and Pete show and never will
                                      > be and I take offence
                                      > when you infer this.
                                      >
                                      > I'm not going to repeat myself again over Dave's
                                      > issues, it was his decision
                                      > to open it up to the group, not mine.
                                      >
                                      > Andy was right in his e-mail, if you thought the
                                      > Committee were not doing a
                                      > good job then the AGM was the arena to put yourself
                                      > forward. You were
                                      > actually around at the rink during the AGM and could
                                      > have come in but chose
                                      > not to. Although you were late you could have had
                                      > some input and put
                                      > yourself forward for a role on the Committee and had
                                      > a chance to change
                                      > things if you thought things were so bad. This was
                                      > your choice but don't
                                      > bleat on now about how bad things are, because the
                                      > only thing wrong with the
                                      > club is the constant winging from a minority of the
                                      > club members including
                                      > yourself, which you have openly admitted.
                                      >
                                      > You have also inferred that I am ignoring your
                                      > previous e-mail when I have
                                      > not seen it, I also take offence at this.
                                      >
                                      > The Hyenas Constitution does state that the
                                      > Committee shall have the power
                                      > to take decisions on behalf of the membership
                                      > regarding all interests
                                      > involving the club to assist in the smooth running
                                      > of the Club. The way I
                                      > interpret this is this is that the Committee do not
                                      > need to consult with the
                                      > team on every matter. I would add that this would
                                      > especially be the case
                                      > when it comes to a disciplinary procedure, which you
                                      > would normally want to
                                      > keep to the knowledge of a minimum number of people,
                                      > i.e. the Committee, the
                                      > accused and support person.
                                      >
                                      > The Constitution also states that a member can call
                                      > a special meeting with
                                      > reference to Club matters providing notice is given
                                      > in writing to all
                                      > members 21 days prior to the meeting and is seconded
                                      > by seven other members.
                                      > With this in mind you have an opportunity of calling
                                      > a special meeting. So
                                      > here is your opportunity to get the seven members
                                      > together and write this
                                      > letter and forward onto all the Committee members,
                                      > as I will be away until
                                      > the 18th July.
                                      >
                                      > Mike, you make some good points of which I would
                                      > like to spend more time
                                      > responding to, but time does not allow this. I just
                                      > want to say that all
                                      > the Committee agreed to all that happened in
                                      > relation to Dave and think that
                                      > we have kept to the spirit of the disciplinary
                                      > procedures. If the team
                                      > thinks that this has been carried out
                                      > inappropriately then I will happily
                                      > resign from the Chairman's role and leave the Club
                                      > and play Hockey
                                      > elsewhere.
                                      >
                                      > Regards
                                      >
                                      > Darrell
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:Hyenas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                      > Richard Dedman
                                      > Sent: 29 June 2005 17:36
                                      > To: Hyenas@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [Hyenas] sorry to let every one down
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > best name the three then andy.
                                      > and the reason i did not attend the agm was i was
                                      > stuck on the m25, i had no
                                      > intention of coming because i would have slagged off
                                      > certain players to
                                      > there faces and it wouldnt of helped anyone!!!
                                      > as for being on a witch hunt,ur wrong but i know my
                                      > opinion is that its a
                                      > Darrell and Pete show, and wot they say the rest of
                                      > the ommittee just agress
                                      > with to try and keep the peace.I believe Darrell is
                                      > dividing the club in
                                      > half and i openly admit thats my belief.i find it
                                      > really funny that the old
                                      > school people of the hyeans stick together all the
                                      > time and to be honest
                                      > andy u have been back for two mins and dont know the
                                      > score on wots been
                                      > going on. there are a lot of players with concerns
                                      > and i hope they will be
                                      > as honest as u and me and air there thoughts
                                      >
                                      > NOW LETS NOT FORGET THE IDEA HERE IS TO SEE IF THE
                                      > TEAM BELIEVES THAT DAVE
                                      > SIMS SHOULD BE ALOUD TO PUT HIS CASE FORWARD TO THE
                                      > COMMITTEE ABT ALL THAT
                                      > HAS HAPPENED.AS HE BELIEVES IT HASNT BEEN DEALT WITH
                                      > IN THE RIGHT MANNER and
                                      > from wot i have seen nor do i
                                      >
                                      > rik
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > sorry but i can no longer sit and watch all the
                                      > rubbish coming out on email
                                      > the committee was voted in by the members if you
                                      > were not happy with any one
                                      > you should have come to the agm and had your say as
                                      > for players winning and
                                      > bitching your right i was one of the founding
                                      > members of the club and things
                                      > have changed a lot since then but it seems to me its
                                      > the same few players
                                      > doing all the winging by a few i mean 3 . it
                                      > concerns me that these players
                                      > seem to be on a witch hunt for our chairman for what
                                      > reason i don't know but
                                      > if things are so bad there is an easy way out leave
                                      > the club if not get on
                                      > with enjoying the game this is a pay to play team
                                      > lets not forget its for
                                      > fun
                                      > Andy
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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