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RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

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  • Bryan Steele
    No takers? _____ From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:26 PM To:
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment

      No takers?

       


      From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
      Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:26 PM
      To: 'Todd Jones'; ben@...
      Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
      Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

       

      A question for the half-bat (half-bolt back batwing) fans, what is that wing doing for you compared to the flat front wing or mini-bat?

       

       


      From: Todd Jones [mailto:terribletodd@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:32 AM
      To: bsteele@...; ben@...
      Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
      Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

       

      Just so no one gets confused about "batwings"

       

      2003, original batwing........"Full Batwing"

      "Modified Bat"...... original Batwing, "Full Bat", leading edge brought back 1 full bolt hole.

      Current batwing........ "Half Bat" because the leading edge is brought back 1/2 bolt hole.

      New Flat wing......"Mini Bat"

       

      The "Half Bat" and "Mini Bat" are available on the B39 and LE37.

      With these T-bars having 10 holes, or 2 placements for front wing.

      With the "Half Bat" in the forward holes it is eqivilant to the orignal "Full Bat" wing position and ride, but on longer t-bars.

      If I remember correctly the "Half Bat" winglets are a little smaller than the "Full Bat" winglets.

       

      I have only rode the "Half Bat" a few times.

      It is a good front wing.... so is the "Mini Bat"

      I'm used to, and still like/ride the "Modified Bat"

      At this time no matter what front wing I have tried on my LE37 I  prefer it in the back position.

      When moving the front wing between the 2 positions it changes the lift drastically.

      The only problem I have found is, for most people, with any front wing in the back position..... one needs to add a lot of lift for a good ride.

       

      tt

       

      Bryan.......As far as changes and the way to go...... I think it has more to do with the LE37 t-bar.

      As far as "Suck Down" I will have to admit (Don... pay attention here;-) that the longer LE37 t-bar makes a huge difference for the better!

      This comment is made from 1 ride from me and 1 ride from Jim in December, I do not know the water temps...... but it was cold, ....... 30's.

      I'll give further updates as we should be able to get out again soon.

      But if they are anything like the last cold water ride...... I will be very happy.

      With the longer t-bar (LE37) I have also found the landings to be softer.

      I am very much looking forward to my next cold water ride.

      Not just to see if my ski rides as good as last time but......

      To try out an Airsling and Perfect Pass I'm just finishing installing!

      It is a shame (or blessing?) when I've spent more on options for my boat than the boat cost ;-)

      Like ..... Monster Tower , Airsling, Perfect Pass Pro, new throttle control & cables, new uphosltry, new carpet, & tower mount mirror!

      So NO Philthy...... you cannot have it back ;-)

       

      .

      .

       

       

       

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: ben@...

      Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:20 AM

      Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

       

      1.  full-cut batwing baby!
      2.  bolt holes moved back and different winglet shape


      Quoting Bryan Steele <bsteele@...>:

      > Ok, we got three people with financial incentive to Sky Ski hyping up the
      > new front Batwing.that's got me a bit curious.  :-)
      >
      >
      >
      > 1)       Are you guys talking about the "full-cut" front batwing?  Or the
      > minor cut "b-flat" front wing?
      >
      >
      >
      > 2)       If it is the full-cut front batwing, what has changed about it to
      > make it "the way to go"?
      >
      >
      >
      > The full batwing front has basically be a 20% wing, i.e. 20ish% of the
      > people that ride it, stay with it.  Where as, 80% usually stay with the flat
      > front or move back to the flat front.  Is there something that has changed
      > with the front batwing you guys are riding?  What is effect does it have
      > over the flat front that is driving you say that is the ultimate setup?
      >
      >
      >
      >  _____
      >
      > From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of Lonnie Marchand
      > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:19 PM
      > To: K Rice; Foil List; J P
      > Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
      >
      >
      >
      > Ken is dead on about the Bat Front being the TICKET!  And yes the suckdown
      > will probably be a memory.
      >
      >
      >
      > "Number 1 source for CINCH and Sky Ski Products, 2 Years running."
      >
      >
      >
      > Stay Seated and Enjoy the Flight!
      >
      >
      >
      > Lonnie Marchand
      > www.cinchmax.com
      > lonnie@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: J P <mailto:phatair4me1@...>
      >
      > To: K Rice <mailto:missskitow@...>  ; Foil
      > <mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com>  List
      >
      > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:10 PM
      >
      > Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
      >
      >
      >
      > Ken,
      >
      > Was this the old flat or the newer "B-flat"
      >
      > JP
      >
      > K Rice <missskitow@...> wrote:
      >
      > We rode a new LE 38 in 44 degree water yesterday with both a flat front wing
      >
      > and a B-39 bat front wing. The suck down is gone!!! We had almost no problem
      >
      > at all.
      > The LE 38 with full bat is the E-ticket ride! The best ski I have ridden.
      >
      > P.S. I was in Arizona all last week in 80 degree air but had to wait till I
      > got back to 40 degree Oregon to ski that SUCKED!
      >
      > Ken Rice
      > Foil-N.com
      >
      >> From: ben@...
      >> To: hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
      >> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:27:58 -0800
      >>
      >> i rode my LE 38 this weekend for the first time since august...  water
      >> temp 33, air temp 33 = total 66.
      >>
      >> it rode awesome, i think it only stuck once when i crossed the wake.
      >> in this cold of water i usually wouldn't do combos but hit front flip
      >> to roll and the old regular combos.  i even hit a mobe today(1 for
      >> 2)...  the foil rode awesome and no glitching.  last year i rode a
      >> prototype wing with no winglets and thought that was the cats meow...
      >> this setup i have now is incredible.   i have the super reinforced
      >> softail with the new bat front and rear wings with the 38 tbar.  if it
      >> doesn't stick in my water i would be pretty certain it won't stick in
      >> yours.
      >>
      >> i am just trying to get the FeO2 out!
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
      >> listings & an event calendar.
      >> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
      >>
      >> chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
      >> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
      >>
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
      > listings & an event calendar.
      > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
      >
      > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
      > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > SPONSORED LINKS
      >
      >
      > Sport
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+nutrition&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=S
      > ports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=
      > Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=W6J6q0sWFpX6lul7bzZbEA>  nutrition
      >
      > Sports
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w1=Sport+nu
      > trition&w2=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=H
      > ydrofoil&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=NxiweGKfdQaJAfy6NsvY8g>
      > nutrition supplement
      >
      > Sport
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fishing&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Spo
      > rts+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=Sp
      > orts+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=GUEJHnXK6McgYYv-l0i56g>  fishing
      >
      >
      > Water
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Water+skiing&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Spor
      > ts+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=Spo
      > rts+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=26xE0v-yZvdxvqzIlDZeAA>  skiing
      >
      > Hydrofoil
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Hydrofoil&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Sports+
      > nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=Sports
      > +nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=JnEzKeHfFLeteuObGhrnsQ>
      >
      > Sports
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+nutrition+products&w1=Sport+nutr
      > ition&w2=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hyd
      > rofoil&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=3bNgDh0WYpYr4CGS2jwNbA>
      > nutrition products
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  _____
      >
      >
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      >
      > *      Visit your group "Hydrofoil
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil> " on the web.
      >
      > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      >
      > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  _____
      >
      >
      >



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      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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    • Schumacher, Bryan J.
      I ll chime in here with my limited experiences. Since I don t yet have a front wing for my F37, I borrowed a TT Modified bat wing for one weekend in Florida,
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment

        I’ll chime in here with my limited experiences.

         

        Since I don’t yet have a front wing for my F37, I borrowed a TT Modified bat wing for one weekend in Florida , and on my next trip rode a flat front wing all weekend.  I don’t know how to explain the differences in the two except that I much preferred the TT modified bat to the flat.  It seemed much more responsive and quicker, and seemed to have more “pop”. 

         

        I’m not an expert by any means, and can’t really put into words why I liked it.  But if I had the choice between the two, I would choose the Modified TT Batwing.

         

        Now with all that said, did I dislike the flat front?  Nope.  It wasn’t that I didn’t like the flat front – because I landed everything on that too.  I don’t know if I went any higher with either one, so we are not talking a huge difference for me between the two.  But there was enough difference in feel that it was instantly noticeable – and much more responsive for me with the TT wing.

         

        Bryan


        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
        Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:11 AM
        To: 'Todd Jones'; ben@...
        Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

         

        No takers?

         


        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
        Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:26 PM
        To: 'Todd Jones'; ben@...
        Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

         

        A question for the half-bat (half-bolt back batwing) fans, what is that wing doing for you compared to the flat front wing or mini-bat?

         

         


        From: Todd Jones [mailto:terribletodd@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:32 AM
        To: bsteele@...; ben@...
        Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
        Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

         

        Just so no one gets confused about "batwings"

         

        2003, original batwing........"Full Batwing"

        "Modified Bat"...... original Batwing, "Full Bat", leading edge brought back 1 full bolt hole.

        Current batwing........ "Half Bat" because the leading edge is brought back 1/2 bolt hole.

        New Flat wing......"Mini Bat"

         

        The "Half Bat" and "Mini Bat" are available on the B39 and LE37.

        With these T-bars having 10 holes, or 2 placements for front wing.

        With the "Half Bat" in the forward holes it is eqivilant to the orignal "Full Bat" wing position and ride, but on longer t-bars.

        If I remember correctly the "Half Bat" winglets are a little smaller than the "Full Bat" winglets.

         

        I have only rode the "Half Bat" a few times.

        It is a good front wing.... so is the "Mini Bat"

        I'm used to, and still like/ride the "Modified Bat"

        At this time no matter what front wing I have tried on my LE37 I  prefer it in the back position.

        When moving the front wing between the 2 positions it changes the lift drastically.

        The only problem I have found is, for most people, with any front wing in the back position..... one needs to add a lot of lift for a good ride.

         

        tt

         

        Bryan.......As far as changes and the way to go...... I think it has more to do with the LE37 t-bar.

        As far as "Suck Down" I will have to admit (Don... pay attention here;-) that the longer LE37 t-bar makes a huge difference for the better!

        This comment is made from 1 ride from me and 1 ride from Jim in December, I do not know the water temps...... but it was cold, ....... 30's.

        I'll give further updates as we should be able to get out again soon.

        But if they are anything like the last cold water ride...... I will be very happy.

        With the longer t-bar (LE37) I have also found the landings to be softer.

        I am very much looking forward to my next cold water ride.

        Not just to see if my ski rides as good as last time but......

        To try out an Airsling and Perfect Pass I'm just finishing installing!

        It is a shame (or blessing?) when I've spent more on options for my boat than the boat cost ;-)

        Like ..... Monster Tower , Airsling, Perfect Pass Pro, new throttle control & cables, new uphosltry, new carpet, & tower mount mirror!

        So NO Philthy...... you cannot have it back ;-)

         

        .

        .

         

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: ben@...

        Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:20 AM

        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38

         

        1.  full-cut batwing baby!
        2.  bolt holes moved back and different winglet shape


        Quoting Bryan Steele <bsteele@...>:

        > Ok, we got three people with financial incentive to Sky Ski hyping up the
        > new front Batwing.that's got me a bit curious.  :-)
        >
        >
        >
        > 1)       Are you guys talking about the "full-cut" front batwing?  Or the
        > minor cut "b-flat" front wing?
        >
        >
        >
        > 2)       If it is the full-cut front batwing, what has changed about it to
        > make it "the way to go"?
        >
        >
        >
        > The full batwing front has basically be a 20% wing, i.e. 20ish% of the
        > people that ride it, stay with it.  Where as, 80% usually stay with the flat
        > front or move back to the flat front.  Is there something that has changed
        > with the front batwing you guys are riding?  What is effect does it have
        > over the flat front that is driving you say that is the ultimate setup?
        >
        >
        >
        >  _____
        >
        > From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        > Of Lonnie Marchand
        > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:19 PM
        > To: K Rice; Foil List; J P
        > Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
        >
        >
        >
        > Ken is dead on about the Bat Front being the TICKET!  And yes the suckdown
        > will probably be a memory.
        >
        >
        >
        > "Number 1 source for CINCH and Sky Ski Products, 2 Years running."
        >
        >
        >
        > Stay Seated and Enjoy the Flight!
        >
        >
        >
        > Lonnie Marchand
        > www.cinchmax.com
        > lonnie@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > From: J P <mailto:phatair4me1@...>
        >
        > To: K Rice <mailto:missskitow@...>  ; Foil
        > <mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com>  List
        >
        > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:10 PM
        >
        > Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
        >
        >
        >
        > Ken,
        >
        > Was this the old flat or the newer "B-flat"
        >
        > JP
        >
        > K Rice <missskitow@...> wrote:
        >
        > We rode a new LE 38 in 44 degree water yesterday with both a flat front wing
        >
        > and a B-39 bat front wing. The suck down is gone!!! We had almost no problem
        >
        > at all.
        > The LE 38 with full bat is the E-ticket ride! The best ski I have ridden.
        >
        > P.S. I was in Arizona all last week in 80 degree air but had to wait till I
        > got back to 40 degree Oregon to ski that SUCKED!
        >
        > Ken Rice
        > Foil-N.com
        >
        >> From: ben@...
        >> To: hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
        >> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:27:58 -0800
        >>
        >> i rode my LE 38 this weekend for the first time since august...  water
        >> temp 33, air temp 33 = total 66.
        >>
        >> it rode awesome, i think it only stuck once when i crossed the wake.
        >> in this cold of water i usually wouldn't do combos but hit front flip
        >> to roll and the old regular combos.  i even hit a mobe today(1 for
        >> 2)...  the foil rode awesome and no glitching.  last year i rode a
        >> prototype wing with no winglets and thought that was the cats meow...
        >> this setup i have now is incredible.   i have the super reinforced
        >> softail with the new bat front and rear wings with the 38 tbar.  if it
        >> doesn't stick in my water i would be pretty certain it won't stick in
        >> yours.
        >>
        >> i am just trying to get the FeO2 out!
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
        >> listings & an event calendar.
        >> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
        >>
        >> chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
        >> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
        >>
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
        > listings & an event calendar.
        > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
        >
        > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
        > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        >
        >
        > Sport
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+nutrition&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=S
        > ports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=
        > Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=W6J6q0sWFpX6lul7bzZbEA>  nutrition
        >
        > Sports
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w1=Sport+nu
        > trition&w2=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=H
        > ydrofoil&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=NxiweGKfdQaJAfy6NsvY8g>
        > nutrition supplement
        >
        > Sport
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fishing&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Spo
        > rts+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=Sp
        > orts+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=GUEJHnXK6McgYYv-l0i56g>  fishing
        >
        >
        > Water
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Water+skiing&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Spor
        > ts+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=Spo
        > rts+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=26xE0v-yZvdxvqzIlDZeAA>  skiing
        >
        > Hydrofoil
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Hydrofoil&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Sports+
        > nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=Sports
        > +nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=JnEzKeHfFLeteuObGhrnsQ>
        >
        > Sports
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+nutrition+products&w1=Sport+nutr
        > ition&w2=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hyd
        > rofoil&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=3bNgDh0WYpYr4CGS2jwNbA>
        > nutrition products
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  _____
        >
        >
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        >
        > *      Visit your group "Hydrofoil
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil> " on the web.
        >
        > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        >
        > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  _____
        >
        >
        >


        Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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      • elbretto
        I rode both in the same day. I ve always kinda liked the full bat, but went with the flat. then I rode someone elses foil setup in my board (no short jokes)
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 6, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          I rode both in the same day. I've always kinda liked the full bat,
          but went with the flat. then I rode someone elses foil setup in my
          board (no short jokes) with the TT mod bat. I couldn't tell any
          difference at all....UNTIL I went back to my flat setup. It was slow
          and took more effort to pop. Like Bryan said, not sure if I went any
          higher, but I sure noticed how much quicker it was to ride. I liked
          it, finally found an old used bat and shaved it down. I'll be on a
          TT mod bat this year.

          --- In Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com, "Schumacher, Bryan J."
          <Bryan.Schumacher@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'll chime in here with my limited experiences.
          >
          >
          >
          > Since I don't yet have a front wing for my F37, I borrowed a TT
          Modified
          > bat wing for one weekend in Florida, and on my next trip rode a
          flat
          > front wing all weekend. I don't know how to explain the
          differences in
          > the two except that I much preferred the TT modified bat to the
          flat.
          > It seemed much more responsive and quicker, and seemed to have more
          > "pop".
          >
          >
          >
          > I'm not an expert by any means, and can't really put into words
          why I
          > liked it. But if I had the choice between the two, I would choose
          the
          > Modified TT Batwing.
          >
          >
          >
          > Now with all that said, did I dislike the flat front? Nope. It
          wasn't
          > that I didn't like the flat front - because I landed everything on
          that
          > too. I don't know if I went any higher with either one, so we are
          not
          > talking a huge difference for me between the two. But there was
          enough
          > difference in feel that it was instantly noticeable - and much more
          > responsive for me with the TT wing.
          >
          >
          >
          > Bryan
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com]
          On
          > Behalf Of Bryan Steele
          > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:11 AM
          > To: 'Todd Jones'; ben@...
          > Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
          > Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
          >
          >
          >
          > No takers?
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com]
          On
          > Behalf Of Bryan Steele
          > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:26 PM
          > To: 'Todd Jones'; ben@...
          > Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
          > Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
          >
          >
          >
          > A question for the half-bat (half-bolt back batwing) fans, what is
          that
          > wing doing for you compared to the flat front wing or mini-bat?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: Todd Jones [mailto:terribletodd@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:32 AM
          > To: bsteele@...; ben@...
          > Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand'; 'K Rice'; 'Foil List'; 'J P'
          > Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
          >
          >
          >
          > Just so no one gets confused about "batwings"
          >
          >
          >
          > 2003, original batwing........"Full Batwing"
          >
          > "Modified Bat"...... original Batwing, "Full Bat", leading edge
          brought
          > back 1 full bolt hole.
          >
          > Current batwing........ "Half Bat" because the leading edge is
          brought
          > back 1/2 bolt hole.
          >
          > New Flat wing......"Mini Bat"
          >
          >
          >
          > The "Half Bat" and "Mini Bat" are available on the B39 and LE37.
          >
          > With these T-bars having 10 holes, or 2 placements for front wing.
          >
          > With the "Half Bat" in the forward holes it is eqivilant to the
          orignal
          > "Full Bat" wing position and ride, but on longer t-bars.
          >
          > If I remember correctly the "Half Bat" winglets are a little
          smaller
          > than the "Full Bat" winglets.
          >
          >
          >
          > I have only rode the "Half Bat" a few times.
          >
          > It is a good front wing.... so is the "Mini Bat"
          >
          > I'm used to, and still like/ride the "Modified Bat"
          >
          > At this time no matter what front wing I have tried on my LE37 I
          prefer
          > it in the back position.
          >
          > When moving the front wing between the 2 positions it changes the
          lift
          > drastically.
          >
          > The only problem I have found is, for most people, with any front
          wing
          > in the back position..... one needs to add a lot of lift for a good
          > ride.
          >
          >
          >
          > tt
          >
          >
          >
          > Bryan.......As far as changes and the way to go...... I think it
          has
          > more to do with the LE37 t-bar.
          >
          > As far as "Suck Down" I will have to admit (Don... pay attention
          here;-)
          > that the longer LE37 t-bar makes a huge difference for the better!
          >
          > This comment is made from 1 ride from me and 1 ride from Jim in
          > December, I do not know the water temps...... but it was
          cold, .......
          > 30's.
          >
          > I'll give further updates as we should be able to get out again
          soon.
          >
          > But if they are anything like the last cold water ride...... I
          will be
          > very happy.
          >
          > With the longer t-bar (LE37) I have also found the landings to be
          > softer.
          >
          > I am very much looking forward to my next cold water ride.
          >
          > Not just to see if my ski rides as good as last time but......
          >
          > To try out an Airsling and Perfect Pass I'm just finishing
          installing!
          >
          > It is a shame (or blessing?) when I've spent more on options for
          my boat
          > than the boat cost ;-)
          >
          > Like ..... Monster Tower, Airsling, Perfect Pass Pro, new throttle
          > control & cables, new uphosltry, new carpet, & tower mount mirror!
          >
          > So NO Philthy...... you cannot have it back ;-)
          >
          >
          >
          > .
          >
          > .
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          >
          > From: ben@...
          >
          > To: bsteele@...
          >
          > Cc: 'Lonnie Marchand' <mailto:cinchmax@...> ; 'K Rice'
          > <mailto:missskitow@...> ; 'Foil List'
          > <mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com> ; 'J P'
          > <mailto:phatair4me1@...>
          >
          > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:20 AM
          >
          > Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
          >
          >
          >
          > 1. full-cut batwing baby!
          > 2. bolt holes moved back and different winglet shape
          >
          >
          > Quoting Bryan Steele <bsteele@...>:
          >
          > > Ok, we got three people with financial incentive to Sky Ski
          > hyping up the
          > > new front Batwing.that's got me a bit curious. :-)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 1) Are you guys talking about the "full-cut" front
          > batwing? Or the
          > > minor cut "b-flat" front wing?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 2) If it is the full-cut front batwing, what has
          changed
          > about it to
          > > make it "the way to go"?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The full batwing front has basically be a 20% wing, i.e.
          > 20ish% of the
          > > people that ride it, stay with it. Where as, 80% usually
          stay
          > with the flat
          > > front or move back to the flat front. Is there something
          that
          > has changed
          > > with the front batwing you guys are riding? What is effect
          > does it have
          > > over the flat front that is driving you say that is the
          > ultimate setup?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > > From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > > Of Lonnie Marchand
          > > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:19 PM
          > > To: K Rice; Foil List; J P
          > > Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Ken is dead on about the Bat Front being the TICKET! And
          yes
          > the suckdown
          > > will probably be a memory.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > "Number 1 source for CINCH and Sky Ski Products, 2 Years
          > running."
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Stay Seated and Enjoy the Flight!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Lonnie Marchand
          > > www.cinchmax.com
          > > lonnie@...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > >
          > > From: J P <mailto:phatair4me1@...>
          > >
          > > To: K Rice <mailto:missskitow@...> ; Foil
          > > <mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com> List
          > >
          > > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:10 PM
          > >
          > > Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Ken,
          > >
          > > Was this the old flat or the newer "B-flat"
          > >
          > > JP
          > >
          > > K Rice <missskitow@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > We rode a new LE 38 in 44 degree water yesterday with both
          a
          > flat front wing
          > >
          > > and a B-39 bat front wing. The suck down is gone!!! We had
          > almost no problem
          > >
          > > at all.
          > > The LE 38 with full bat is the E-ticket ride! The best ski
          I
          > have ridden.
          > >
          > > P.S. I was in Arizona all last week in 80 degree air but
          had
          > to wait till I
          > > got back to 40 degree Oregon to ski that SUCKED!
          > >
          > > Ken Rice
          > > Foil-N.com
          > >
          > >> From: ben@...
          > >> To: hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
          > >> Subject: [Hydrofoil] LE 38
          > >> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:27:58 -0800
          > >>
          > >> i rode my LE 38 this weekend for the first time since
          > august... water
          > >> temp 33, air temp 33 = total 66.
          > >>
          > >> it rode awesome, i think it only stuck once when i crossed
          > the wake.
          > >> in this cold of water i usually wouldn't do combos but hit
          > front flip
          > >> to roll and the old regular combos. i even hit a mobe
          > today(1 for
          > >> 2)... the foil rode awesome and no glitching. last year
          i
          > rode a
          > >> prototype wing with no winglets and thought that was the
          cats
          > meow...
          > >> this setup i have now is incredible. i have the super
          > reinforced
          > >> softail with the new bat front and rear wings with the 38
          > tbar. if it
          > >> doesn't stick in my water i would be pretty certain it
          won't
          > stick in
          > >> yours.
          > >>
          > >> i am just trying to get the FeO2 out!
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own
          chat
          > room, rider
          > >> listings & an event calendar.
          > >> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
          > >>
          > >> chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
          > >> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat
          > room, rider
          > > listings & an event calendar.
          > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
          > >
          > > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
          > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > SPONSORED LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > > Sport
          > >
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Sport+nutrition&w1=Sport+nutrition&
          > w2=S
          > >
          >
          ports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrof
          oil
          > &w6=
          > >
          > Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=W6J6q0sWFpX6lul7bzZbEA>
          > nutrition
          > >
          > > Sports
          > >
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          t=ms&k=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w1=Spor
          > t+nu
          > >
          >
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          > >
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          Nsv
          > Y8g>
          > > nutrition supplement
          > >
          > > Sport
          > >
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          t=ms&k=Sport+fishing&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2
          > =Spo
          > >
          >
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          > 6=Sp
          > > orts+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=GUEJHnXK6McgYYv-
          l0i56g>
          > fishing
          > >
          > >
          > > Water
          > >
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          t=ms&k=Water+skiing&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=
          > Spor
          > >
          >
          ts+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil
          &w6
          > =Spo
          > > rts+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=26xE0v-
          yZvdxvqzIlDZeAA>
          > skiing
          > >
          > > Hydrofoil
          > >
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Hydrofoil&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Spo
          > rts+
          > >
          >
          nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6
          =Sp
          > orts
          > > +nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=JnEzKeHfFLeteuObGhrnsQ>
          > >
          > > Sports
          > >
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Sports+nutrition+products&w1=Sport+
          > nutr
          > >
          >
          ition&w2=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing
          &w5
          > =Hyd
          > >
          >
          rofoil&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=3bNgDh0WYpYr4CGS2j
          wNb
          > A>
          > > nutrition products
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > >
          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > * Visit your group "Hydrofoil
          > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil> " on the web.
          > >
          > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > <mailto:Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
          > >
          > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          >
          > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release
          Date:
          > 2/17/2006
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room,
          rider
          > listings & an event calendar.
          > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
          >
          > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
          > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          >
          > Sport nutrition
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Sport+nutrition&w1=Sport+nutrition&
          >
          w2=Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hy
          dro
          >
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          >
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          >
          ing&w5=Hydrofoil&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=NxiweGKf
          dQa
          > JAfy6NsvY8g>
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          > Sport fishing
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
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          >
          =Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydr
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          > il&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=GUEJHnXK6McgYYv-
          l0i56g>
          >
          > Water skiing
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Water+skiing&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=
          >
          Sports+nutrition+supplement&w3=Sport+fishing&w4=Water+skiing&w5=Hydro
          foi
          > l&w6=Sports+nutrition+products&c=6&s=137&.sig=26xE0v-
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          >
          > Hydrofoil
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Hydrofoil&w1=Sport+nutrition&w2=Spo
          >
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          >
          > Sports nutrition products
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          iin
          >
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          Yr4
          > CGS2jwNbA>
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          >
          > * Visit your group "Hydrofoil
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil> " on the web.
          >
          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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