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towers

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  • garry griffiths
    Has anybody out there got a Monster Tower fitted to their boat and what do they think of it? A penny for your thoughts. Skiya Garry
    Message 1 of 26 , May 2, 2003
      Has anybody out there got a "Monster Tower" fitted to their boat and what do they think of it?
      A penny for your thoughts.
       
      Skiya Garry
    • garry griffiths
      I have done all my bends and rolled the main uprights and was just wondering what would be the best height for the rope pick up point.At a guess i would say 7
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 7, 2003
        I have done all my bends and rolled the main uprights and was just wondering what would be the best height for the rope pick up point.At a guess i would say 7 feet from the floor.I am building one very similar to the monster tower.Thanks for any advice.
         
        Skiya Garry
      • Bill Kinnison
        Tall enough for you to stand under it without getting knocked silly everytime you get out of the drivers seat. I have the Ichor & it s about 6 6 from the
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 7, 2003
          Tall enough for you to stand under it without getting knocked silly everytime you get out of the drivers seat.
           
          I have the Ichor & it's about 6'6" from the floor. The Titan (which looks like the Monster) is about 6'6" too. I've never stood under the Monster. The Nautique towers are only about 5'10" tall.
           
          Too tall a tower will make it easy for a rider to tip the boat on a hard cut into or out of the flats, which will change the shape of the wake.
          --
          Bill - bill@...
          http://airjunky.com
          206.200.6226
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: garry griffiths [mailto:ggriffiths@...]
          Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 10:33 PM
          To: hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Hydrofoil] towers

          I have done all my bends and rolled the main uprights and was just wondering what would be the best height for the rope pick up point.At a guess i would say 7 feet from the floor.I am building one very similar to the monster tower.Thanks for any advice.
           
          Skiya Garry


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        • Killer Kadoogan
          I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price ! Anything in the works for a billet rock tower for skyski . I think the LEX could shed some
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 7, 2005
            I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price ! Anything in the works for a  billet rock tower for skyski . I think the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
            - 2xk


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          • Chip Reihl
            The flex seat is the only part that is billet on that seat the rest of the seat is still a cast base. The sky ski products have had billet seats since they
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 7, 2005
              The "flex seat" is the only part that is billet on that seat the rest of the seat is still a cast base.  The sky ski products have had billet seats since they first came out.  C.
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:34 PM
              Subject: [Hydrofoil] towers

              I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price ! Anything in the works for a  billet rock tower for skyski . I think the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
              - 2xk


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            • Jake Bradley
              Ya well, this AC is fully equiped with a custom billet seat and custom diamond plate board plate. For your viewing pleasures only.... Jake Bradley
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 7, 2005
                Ya well, this AC is fully equiped with a custom billet
                seat and custom diamond plate board plate.

                For your viewing pleasures only....

                Jake Bradley
                www.airchair.com




                --- Chip Reihl <creihl@...> wrote:

                > The "flex seat" is the only part that is billet on
                > that seat the rest of the seat is still a cast base.
                > The sky ski products have had billet seats since
                > they first came out. C.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Killer Kadoogan
                > To: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:34 PM
                > Subject: [Hydrofoil] towers
                >
                >
                > I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a
                > reasonable price ! Anything in the works for a
                > billet rock tower for skyski . I think the LEX could
                > shed some pounds there very easily .
                > - 2xk
                >
                >
                >
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              • Bill Kinnison
                Rock towers have always been made from billet. And the LEX Shock Tower has been billet since it came out several years ago. -- Bill - bill@airjunky.com
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                  Rock towers have always been made from billet. And the LEX Shock Tower has been billet since it came out several years ago.
                  --
                  Bill - bill@...
                  AirJunky.com
                  206.200.6226






                  Killer Kadoogan wrote:

                  I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price ! Anything in the works for a  billet rock tower for skyski . I think the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .

                  - 2xk



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                • bigairbobus
                  I don t know anything about Air Chair selling a true billet seat tower. However, I do know that they claim that all of their foils are made with something
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                    I don't know anything about Air Chair selling a true billet seat
                    tower. However, I do know that they claim that all of their foils are
                    made with something that they call "cast billet". Their reasoning is
                    that before the aluminum is melted and cast, it comes in a billet
                    form. I always thought that one of the big benefits of true billet
                    had something to do with the way the molecules are lined up and that's
                    all lost in the casting process. I also thought that the casting
                    process caused the aluminum to become much more porous. On the
                    positive side, they do offer a lifetime warranty against foil breakage
                    under normal use. So, is this new seat tower true billet or is it what
                    Air Chair refers to as "cast billet"?

                    Bob


                    --- In Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com, Bill Kinnison <bill@a...> wrote:
                    > Rock towers have always been made from billet. And the LEX Shock Tower
                    > has been billet since it came out several years ago.
                    > --
                    > Bill - bill@a...
                    > AirJunky.com
                    > 206.200.6226
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Killer Kadoogan wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price !
                    > > Anything in the works for a billet rock tower for skyski . I think
                    > > the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
                    > >
                    > > - 2xk
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
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                  • Bill Kinnison
                    *Sky Ski has 4 billet seat towers to choose from. Airchair, none. Sky Ski has 3 **billet foil assemblies**.... soon to be 4 billet foils to choose from.
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                      Sky Ski has 4 billet seat towers to choose from.  Airchair, none. 

                      Sky Ski has 3
                      billet foil assemblies.... soon to be 4 billet foils to choose from.  Airchair, none. 

                      Be careful of the advertisements.
                      --
                      Bill - bill@...
                      AirJunky.com
                      206.200.6226



                      bigairbobus wrote:
                      I don't know anything about Air Chair selling a true billet seat
                      tower.  However, I do know that they claim that all of their foils are
                      made with something that they call "cast billet".  Their reasoning is
                      that before the aluminum is melted and cast, it comes in a billet
                      form.  I always thought that one of the big benefits of true billet
                      had something to do with the way the molecules are lined up and that's
                      all lost in the casting process. I also thought that the casting
                      process caused the aluminum to become much more porous.  On the
                      positive side, they do offer a lifetime warranty against foil breakage
                      under normal use. So, is this new seat tower true billet or is it what
                      Air Chair refers to as "cast billet"?

                      Bob


                      --- In Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com, Bill Kinnison <bill@a...> wrote:
                      > Rock towers have always been made from billet. And the LEX Shock Tower
                      > has been billet since it came out several years ago.
                      > --
                      > Bill - bill@a...
                      > AirJunky.com
                      > 206.200.6226
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Killer Kadoogan wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price !
                      > > Anything in the works for a  billet rock tower for skyski . I think
                      > > the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
                      > >
                      > > - 2xk
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium:
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                      > > rider listings & an event calendar.
                      > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                      > >
                      > > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                      > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    • ewingski@aol.com
                      And what constitutes normal use ? A 300 lb guy at 26 mph 8 feet in the air is a rare definition of normal ewing
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                        And what constitutes "normal use"?  A 300 lb guy at 26 mph 8 feet in the air is a rare definition of "normal"

                        ewing
                      • Killer Kadoogan
                        they need an all billet tower to shed some weight . The lighter the better . I ve been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage .
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005



                          they need an all billet tower to shed some weight . The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage . Won't be much , but any little bit helps .

                          Farrell




                          >From: "Chip Reihl" <creihl@...>
                          >To: "Killer Kadoogan" <loubueller@...>, <Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers
                          >Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:57:38 -0400
                          >
                          >The "flex seat" is the only part that is billet on that seat the rest of the seat is still a cast base.  The sky ski products have had billet seats since they first came out.  C.
                          >
                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                          >   From: Killer Kadoogan
                          >   To: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                          >   Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:34 PM
                          >   Subject: [Hydrofoil] towers
                          >
                          >
                          >   I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price ! Anything in the works for a  billet rock tower for skyski . I
                          think the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
                          >   - 2xk
                          >
                          >
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                        • Steve Landess
                          I didn t know you were so large, Doc...even bigger than me! Steve ... From: ewingski@aol.com To: bigairbobus@yahoo.com ; Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                            I didn't know you were so large, Doc...even bigger than me!
                             
                            <lol>
                            Steve
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:11 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] Re: towers

                            And what constitutes "normal use"?  A 300 lb guy at 26 mph 8 feet in the air is a rare definition of "normal"

                            ewing


                            Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
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                          • Chip Reihl
                            I have a bar of billet butter before it melts on pancakes too! ... From: bigairbobus To: Sent: Friday,
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                              I have a bar of billet butter before it melts on pancakes too!

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "bigairbobus" <bigairbobus@...>
                              To: <Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:44 PM
                              Subject: [Hydrofoil] Re: towers


                              >I don't know anything about Air Chair selling a true billet seat
                              > tower. However, I do know that they claim that all of their foils are
                              > made with something that they call "cast billet". Their reasoning is
                              > that before the aluminum is melted and cast, it comes in a billet
                              > form. I always thought that one of the big benefits of true billet
                              > had something to do with the way the molecules are lined up and that's
                              > all lost in the casting process. I also thought that the casting
                              > process caused the aluminum to become much more porous. On the
                              > positive side, they do offer a lifetime warranty against foil breakage
                              > under normal use. So, is this new seat tower true billet or is it what
                              > Air Chair refers to as "cast billet"?
                              >
                              > Bob
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com, Bill Kinnison <bill@a...> wrote:
                              >> Rock towers have always been made from billet. And the LEX Shock Tower
                              >> has been billet since it came out several years ago.
                              >> --
                              >> Bill - bill@a...
                              >> AirJunky.com
                              >> 206.200.6226
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > Killer Kadoogan wrote:
                              >> >
                              >> > I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price !
                              >> > Anything in the works for a billet rock tower for skyski . I think
                              >> > the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
                              >> >
                              >> > - 2xk
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                              >> > Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium:
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                              >> > rider listings & an event calendar.
                              >> > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                              >> >
                              >> > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
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                              >> >
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                            • ewingski@aol.com
                              I am not that large, anymore. Its still an ugly sight when I go inverted..... ewing
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                                I am not that large, anymore.  Its  still an ugly sight when I go inverted.....

                                ewing
                              • Bryan Steele
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                                  <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                  Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                  I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                  I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)
                                • Airjunky
                                  And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal? _____ From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005

                                    And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                     


                                    From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                    Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                    To: loubueller@...
                                    Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                     

                                    <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                    Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                    I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                    I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                    Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

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                                  • John Gisel
                                    Define Normal use . The new tower isn t billet but the flex plate is. The flex seat can be mounted to older AC s. I ve attached a couple pictures of my
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jul 8, 2005
                                      Define "Normal use". The new tower isn't billet but the flex plate is.
                                      The flex seat can be mounted to older AC's. I've attached a couple
                                      pictures of my cousin's foil.

                                      John
                                      Menomonie, WI

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of bigairbobus
                                      Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:44 AM
                                      To: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Hydrofoil] Re: towers

                                      I don't know anything about Air Chair selling a true billet seat
                                      tower. However, I do know that they claim that all of their foils are
                                      made with something that they call "cast billet". Their reasoning is
                                      that before the aluminum is melted and cast, it comes in a billet
                                      form. I always thought that one of the big benefits of true billet
                                      had something to do with the way the molecules are lined up and that's
                                      all lost in the casting process. I also thought that the casting
                                      process caused the aluminum to become much more porous. On the
                                      positive side, they do offer a lifetime warranty against foil breakage
                                      under normal use. So, is this new seat tower true billet or is it what
                                      Air Chair refers to as "cast billet"?

                                      Bob


                                      --- In Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com, Bill Kinnison <bill@a...> wrote:
                                      > Rock towers have always been made from billet. And the LEX Shock Tower

                                      > has been billet since it came out several years ago.
                                      > --
                                      > Bill - bill@a...
                                      > AirJunky.com
                                      > 206.200.6226
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Killer Kadoogan wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price !
                                      > > Anything in the works for a billet rock tower for skyski . I think
                                      > > the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
                                      > >
                                      > > - 2xk
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > >
                                      > > Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium:
                                      > > <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENCA/2752??PS=47575> Join now and get the
                                      first
                                      > > two months FREE*
                                      > >
                                      > > Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room,
                                      > > rider listings & an event calendar.
                                      > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                      > >
                                      > > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                      > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > >
                                      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > * Visit your group "Hydrofoil
                                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil>" on the web.
                                      > >
                                      > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                      Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
                                      listings & an event calendar.
                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                      chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
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                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • Bryan Steele
                                      Hmmm. guessing here. The metal tower plates costs $100? Weight about 9 pounds. The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so. Weight about
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jul 9, 2005

                                        Hmmm… guessing here.

                                         

                                        The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.

                                         

                                        The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight about 4.5 pounds.

                                         

                                        Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight…

                                         

                                         

                                         


                                        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Airjunky
                                        Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                        Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                         

                                        And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                         


                                        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                        Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                        To: loubueller@...
                                        Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                         

                                        <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                        Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                        I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                        I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                        Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                        chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/





                                        Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                        chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/




                                      • Brad Scott
                                        So Bryan, how much difference does the tower weight make? (though it all makes a difference when carrying the skis). And 4.5 pounds is certainly significant. I
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jul 9, 2005

                                          So Bryan, how much difference does the tower weight make? (though it all makes a difference when carrying the skis). And 4.5 pounds is certainly significant. I can see a big difference when the weight is far away from your center of gravity (say the t-bar and the board or wings). Is the weight difference less significant when it is closer (as far as how it affects your riding)?

                                           

                                          And I wonder if there is any way to factor in rider weight in the calculations. I know you wear a vest that doesn’t hold water like the neo vests – do you think that makes a difference?

                                           

                                          I don’t feel much difference when wearing a full wetsuit vs no wetsuit, but I might not be as sensitive to weight (or just think my technique is not as good if I ride poorly).

                                           

                                          Brad Scott

                                           

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                          Sent:
                                          Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:05 AM
                                          To: 'Airjunky'
                                          Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                           

                                          Hmmm… guessing here.

                                           

                                          The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.

                                           

                                          The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight about 4.5 pounds.

                                           

                                          Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight…

                                           

                                           

                                           


                                          From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Airjunky
                                          Sent:
                                          Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                          Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                           

                                          And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                           


                                          From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                          Sent:
                                          Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                          To: loubueller@...
                                          Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                           

                                          <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                          Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                          I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                          I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                          Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                          http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                          chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                          http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                          Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                          http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                          chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                          http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/




                                          Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                          http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                          chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                          http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                        • Bryan Steele
                                          Weight reduction in the tower is quite noticeable, mainly on inverts like rolls and gainers. I can notice the difference on how hard you need to pull on wake
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jul 9, 2005

                                            Weight reduction in the tower is quite noticeable, mainly on inverts like rolls and gainers.  I can notice the difference on how hard you need to pull on wake spins too.  At a 20 pound ski weight, it really starts to feel like there is no ski strapped on.

                                             

                                            Generally, the less weight on the ski, the easier tricks are to control in the air and the more aggressive you can take-off with loaded line and not get owned.  If your take-off is perfect with a 40 pound ski, then the ski kinda takes over and the trick is really easy.  With a 20 pounds ski, the ski never really takes over, so you must use more line tension, upper body weight, and push/pull with the feet to maneuver the ski for the landing.

                                             

                                            Most people that ride a lightweight ski for the first few times think it sucks.  Until you realize that the benefit is greater control in the air and maximizing loaded take-off while still maintaining control, the heavy ski will seem like a better deal.

                                             

                                            As for rider weight, I have not done much testing there.

                                             


                                            From: Brad Scott [mailto:bradx@...]
                                            Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:36 AM
                                            To: 'Bryan Steele'
                                            Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                             

                                            So Bryan, how much difference does the tower weight make? (though it all makes a difference when carrying the skis). And 4.5 pounds is certainly significant. I can see a big difference when the weight is far away from your center of gravity (say the t-bar and the board or wings). Is the weight difference less significant when it is closer (as far as how it affects your riding)?

                                             

                                            And I wonder if there is any way to factor in rider weight in the calculations. I know you wear a vest that doesn’t hold water like the neo vests – do you think that makes a difference?

                                             

                                            I don’t feel much difference when wearing a full wetsuit vs no wetsuit, but I might not be as sensitive to weight (or just think my technique is not as good if I ride poorly).

                                             

                                            Brad Scott

                                             

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                            Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:05 AM
                                            To: 'Airjunky'
                                            Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                             

                                            Hmmm… guessing here.

                                             

                                            The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.

                                             

                                            The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight about 4.5 pounds.

                                             

                                            Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight…

                                             

                                             

                                             


                                            From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Airjunky
                                            Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                            Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                             

                                            And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                             


                                            From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                            Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                            To: loubueller@...
                                            Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                             

                                            <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                            Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                            I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                            I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                            Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                            http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                            chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                            http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                            Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                            http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                            chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                            http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                            Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                            http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                            chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                            http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/


                                          • Killer Kadoogan
                                            Where do you find something like that , do you make them , or have them made ? My back was getting sore from riding the other day so I put a plastic top on for
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jul 9, 2005



                                              Where do you find something like that , do you make them , or have them made ? My back was getting sore from riding the other day so I put a plastic top on for some temporary relief , seems to work , but I think it's not very good for the tower like you said . Jake said the towers were made from billet , I thought they were just from an aluminum mold ! I remember seeing Ron Stack and Murphys towers at the 2000 Worlds and they both had holes drilled all around the towers to lose weight , is this a good idea or will they eventually weaken ? I talked to a guy and he said he could put the tower on a computer so he would know exactly where to put the holes so as to not affect the performance of the towers but I'm not sure if he knows exactly what kind of stress towers have . Does anyone have any info on holes being drilled into the towers ?

                                              -Farrell




                                              >From: "Bryan Steele" <bsteele@...>
                                              >To: "'Airjunky'" <airjunky@...>
                                              >CC: <Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com>
                                              >Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers
                                              >Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 00:05:10 -0700
                                              >
                                              >Hmmm. guessing here.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight
                                              >about 4.5 pounds.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >   _____
                                              >
                                              >From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              >Of Airjunky
                                              >Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                              >Cc:
                                              Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >   _____
                                              >
                                              >From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              >Of Bryan Steele
                                              >Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                              >To: loubueller@...
                                              >Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              ><<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of
                                              >titanium to lose a little poundage>>
                                              >
                                              >Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less
                                              >material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still
                                              >not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is
                                              probably a
                                              >good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top
                                              >of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e.
                                              >spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the
                                              >standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.
                                              >
                                              >I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type
                                              >of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from
                                              >the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a
                                              >Ti top plate.
                                              >
                                              >I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and
                                              >strength.  :)
                                              >
                                              >Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
                                              >listings & an event
                                              calendar.
                                              >http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                              >
                                              >chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                              >http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
                                              >listings & an event calendar.
                                              >http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                              >
                                              >chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                              >http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >   _____
                                              >
                                              >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >* Visit your group "Hydrofoil
                                              ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil> " on the web.
                                              >
                                              >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                              to:
                                              >  Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              ><mailto:Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                              >
                                              >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                              ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Service.
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                                              >


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                                            • Garry
                                              So as the top plate compresses the belt goes loose and when it springs back the belt goes tight again.Is that right??? ... From: John Gisel To: bigairbobus
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jul 9, 2005
                                                So as the top plate compresses the belt goes loose and when it springs back the belt goes tight again.Is that right???
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:14 PM
                                                Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] Re: towers

                                                Define "Normal use".   The new tower isn't billet but the flex plate is.
                                                The flex seat can be mounted to older AC's.  I've attached a couple
                                                pictures of my cousin's foil.

                                                John
                                                Menomonie, WI

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                Behalf Of bigairbobus
                                                Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:44 AM
                                                To: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [Hydrofoil] Re: towers

                                                I don't know anything about Air Chair selling a true billet seat
                                                tower.  However, I do know that they claim that all of their foils are
                                                made with something that they call "cast billet".  Their reasoning is
                                                that before the aluminum is melted and cast, it comes in a billet
                                                form.  I always thought that one of the big benefits of true billet
                                                had something to do with the way the molecules are lined up and that's
                                                all lost in the casting process. I also thought that the casting
                                                process caused the aluminum to become much more porous.  On the
                                                positive side, they do offer a lifetime warranty against foil breakage
                                                under normal use. So, is this new seat tower true billet or is it what
                                                Air Chair refers to as "cast billet"?

                                                Bob


                                                --- In Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com, Bill Kinnison <bill@a...> wrote:
                                                > Rock towers have always been made from billet. And the LEX Shock Tower

                                                > has been billet since it came out several years ago.
                                                > --
                                                > Bill - bill@a...
                                                > AirJunky.com
                                                > 206.200.6226
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Killer Kadoogan wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > I noticed airchair has a billet tower for a reasonable price !
                                                > > Anything in the works for a  billet rock tower for skyski . I think
                                                > > the LEX could shed some pounds there very easily .
                                                > >
                                                > > - 2xk
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
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                                                > >
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                                                > > two months FREE*
                                                > >
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                                                > > rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                                > >
                                                > > chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                > > http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                > >
                                                > > 
                                                > >
                                                > >     *  Visit your group "Hydrofoil
                                                > >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil>" on the web.
                                                > >       
                                                > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                > >        Hydrofoil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                > >     
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                                                > >       
                                                > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                > >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                > >
                                                > > 
                                                > >
                                                > >
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                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >




                                                Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider
                                                listings & an event calendar.
                                                http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
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                                                Yahoo! Groups Links







                                                Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                              • Brad Scott
                                                But that is all additional muscle, right Garry? You use that muscle to help you control the line tension, etc., I ll bet. Brad Scott ... From:
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jul 10, 2005

                                                  But that is all additional muscle, right Garry? You use that muscle to help you control the line tension, etc., I’ll bet.

                                                   

                                                  Brad Scott

                                                   

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Garry
                                                  Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 9:05 PM
                                                  To: 'Brad Scott'; Bryan Steele
                                                  Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                   

                                                  Strap on a 10kg divers weight belt and that will tell you the difference what body weight has to do with it.In my case Bryan you would have to strap on 30 kg's to feel what i do.

                                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 8:16 AM

                                                  Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                   

                                                  Weight reduction in the tower is quite noticeable, mainly on inverts like rolls and gainers.  I can notice the difference on how hard you need to pull on wake spins too.  At a 20 pound ski weight, it really starts to feel like there is no ski strapped on.

                                                   

                                                  Generally, the less weight on the ski, the easier tricks are to control in the air and the more aggressive you can take-off with loaded line and not get owned.  If your take-off is perfect with a 40 pound ski, then the ski kinda takes over and the trick is really easy.  With a 20 pounds ski, the ski never really takes over, so you must use more line tension, upper body weight, and push/pull with the feet to maneuver the ski for the landing.

                                                   

                                                  Most people that ride a lightweight ski for the first few times think it sucks.  Until you realize that the benefit is greater control in the air and maximizing loaded take-off while still maintaining control, the heavy ski will seem like a better deal.

                                                   

                                                  As for rider weight, I have not done much testing there.

                                                   


                                                  From: Brad Scott [mailto:bradx@...]
                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:36 AM
                                                  To: 'Bryan Steele'
                                                  Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                   

                                                  So Bryan, how much difference does the tower weight make? (though it all makes a difference when carrying the skis). And 4.5 pounds is certainly significant. I can see a big difference when the weight is far away from your center of gravity (say the t-bar and the board or wings). Is the weight difference less significant when it is closer (as far as how it affects your riding)?

                                                   

                                                  And I wonder if there is any way to factor in rider weight in the calculations. I know you wear a vest that doesn’t hold water like the neo vests – do you think that makes a difference?

                                                   

                                                  I don’t feel much difference when wearing a full wetsuit vs no wetsuit, but I might not be as sensitive to weight (or just think my technique is not as good if I ride poorly).

                                                   

                                                  Brad Scott

                                                   

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:05 AM
                                                  To: 'Airjunky'
                                                  Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                   

                                                  Hmmm… guessing here.

                                                   

                                                  The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.

                                                   

                                                  The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight about 4.5 pounds.

                                                   

                                                  Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight…

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   


                                                  From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Airjunky
                                                  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                                  Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                   

                                                  And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                                   


                                                  From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                                  To: loubueller@...
                                                  Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                   

                                                  <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                                  Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                                  I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                                  I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                                  Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                  chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                  Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                  chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                  Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                  chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                  Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                  chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
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                                                  Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                  chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
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                                                • Garry
                                                  Strap on a 10kg divers weight belt and that will tell you the difference what body weight has to do with it.In my case Bryan you would have to strap on 30 kg s
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jul 10, 2005
                                                    Strap on a 10kg divers weight belt and that will tell you the difference what body weight has to do with it.In my case Bryan you would have to strap on 30 kg's to feel what i do.
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 8:16 AM
                                                    Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                    Weight reduction in the tower is quite noticeable, mainly on inverts like rolls and gainers.  I can notice the difference on how hard you need to pull on wake spins too.  At a 20 pound ski weight, it really starts to feel like there is no ski strapped on.

                                                     

                                                    Generally, the less weight on the ski, the easier tricks are to control in the air and the more aggressive you can take-off with loaded line and not get owned.  If your take-off is perfect with a 40 pound ski, then the ski kinda takes over and the trick is really easy.  With a 20 pounds ski, the ski never really takes over, so you must use more line tension, upper body weight, and push/pull with the feet to maneuver the ski for the landing.

                                                     

                                                    Most people that ride a lightweight ski for the first few times think it sucks.  Until you realize that the benefit is greater control in the air and maximizing loaded take-off while still maintaining control, the heavy ski will seem like a better deal.

                                                     

                                                    As for rider weight, I have not done much testing there.

                                                     


                                                    From: Brad Scott [mailto:bradx@...]
                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:36 AM
                                                    To: 'Bryan Steele'
                                                    Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                     

                                                    So Bryan, how much difference does the tower weight make? (though it all makes a difference when carrying the skis). And 4.5 pounds is certainly significant. I can see a big difference when the weight is far away from your center of gravity (say the t-bar and the board or wings). Is the weight difference less significant when it is closer (as far as how it affects your riding)?

                                                     

                                                    And I wonder if there is any way to factor in rider weight in the calculations. I know you wear a vest that doesn’t hold water like the neo vests – do you think that makes a difference?

                                                     

                                                    I don’t feel much difference when wearing a full wetsuit vs no wetsuit, but I might not be as sensitive to weight (or just think my technique is not as good if I ride poorly).

                                                     

                                                    Brad Scott

                                                     

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:05 AM
                                                    To: 'Airjunky'
                                                    Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                     

                                                    Hmmm… guessing here.

                                                     

                                                    The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.

                                                     

                                                    The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight about 4.5 pounds.

                                                     

                                                    Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight…

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     


                                                    From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Airjunky
                                                    Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                                    Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                     

                                                    And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                                     


                                                    From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                    Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                                    To: loubueller@...
                                                    Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                     

                                                    <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                                    Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                                    I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                                    I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                                    Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                    chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                    Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                    chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                    Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                    chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/




                                                    Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                    chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                  • John Burton
                                                    Strong and very BIG....hey Garry?....(;o) (mine are catching up real fast !!!) JB ... From: Garry To: Brad Scott ; Bryan Steele Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Jul 11, 2005
                                                      Strong and very BIG....hey Garry?....(;o)
                                                      (mine are catching up real fast !!!)
                                                       
                                                      JB
                                                      ----
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: Garry
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 1:11 AM
                                                      Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                      You got it my friend.The muscles in my Belly are really strong! from all that extra line tention.
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:38 AM
                                                      Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                      But that is all additional muscle, right Garry? You use that muscle to help you control the line tension, etc., I’ll bet.

                                                       

                                                      Brad Scott

                                                       

                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Garry
                                                      Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 9:05 PM
                                                      To: 'Brad Scott'; Bryan Steele
                                                      Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                       

                                                      Strap on a 10kg divers weight belt and that will tell you the difference what body weight has to do with it.In my case Bryan you would have to strap on 30 kg's to feel what i do.

                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 8:16 AM

                                                      Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                       

                                                      Weight reduction in the tower is quite noticeable, mainly on inverts like rolls and gainers.  I can notice the difference on how hard you need to pull on wake spins too.  At a 20 pound ski weight, it really starts to feel like there is no ski strapped on.

                                                       

                                                      Generally, the less weight on the ski, the easier tricks are to control in the air and the more aggressive you can take-off with loaded line and not get owned.  If your take-off is perfect with a 40 pound ski, then the ski kinda takes over and the trick is really easy.  With a 20 pounds ski, the ski never really takes over, so you must use more line tension, upper body weight, and push/pull with the feet to maneuver the ski for the landing.

                                                       

                                                      Most people that ride a lightweight ski for the first few times think it sucks.  Until you realize that the benefit is greater control in the air and maximizing loaded take-off while still maintaining control, the heavy ski will seem like a better deal.

                                                       

                                                      As for rider weight, I have not done much testing there.

                                                       


                                                      From: Brad Scott [mailto:bradx@...]
                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:36 AM
                                                      To: 'Bryan Steele'
                                                      Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                       

                                                      So Bryan, how much difference does the tower weight make? (though it all makes a difference when carrying the skis). And 4.5 pounds is certainly significant. I can see a big difference when the weight is far away from your center of gravity (say the t-bar and the board or wings). Is the weight difference less significant when it is closer (as far as how it affects your riding)?

                                                       

                                                      And I wonder if there is any way to factor in rider weight in the calculations. I know you wear a vest that doesn’t hold water like the neo vests – do you think that makes a difference?

                                                       

                                                      I don’t feel much difference when wearing a full wetsuit vs no wetsuit, but I might not be as sensitive to weight (or just think my technique is not as good if I ride poorly).

                                                       

                                                      Brad Scott

                                                       

                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:05 AM
                                                      To: 'Airjunky'
                                                      Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                       

                                                      Hmmm… guessing here.

                                                       

                                                      The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.

                                                       

                                                      The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight about 4.5 pounds.

                                                       

                                                      Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight…

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       


                                                      From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Airjunky
                                                      Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                                      Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                       

                                                      And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                                       


                                                      From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                      Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                                      To: loubueller@...
                                                      Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                       

                                                      <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                                      Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                                      I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                                      I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                                      Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                      chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                      Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                      chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                      Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                      chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                      Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                      chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/






                                                      Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                      chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/






                                                      Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                      chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                      http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                    • Garry
                                                      You got it my friend.The muscles in my Belly are really strong! from all that extra line tention. ... From: Brad Scott To: Garry ; Bryan Steele Cc:
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Jul 11, 2005
                                                        You got it my friend.The muscles in my Belly are really strong! from all that extra line tention.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:38 AM
                                                        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                        But that is all additional muscle, right Garry? You use that muscle to help you control the line tension, etc., I’ll bet.

                                                         

                                                        Brad Scott

                                                         

                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Garry
                                                        Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 9:05 PM
                                                        To: 'Brad Scott'; Bryan Steele
                                                        Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                         

                                                        Strap on a 10kg divers weight belt and that will tell you the difference what body weight has to do with it.In my case Bryan you would have to strap on 30 kg's to feel what i do.

                                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                                        Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 8:16 AM

                                                        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                         

                                                        Weight reduction in the tower is quite noticeable, mainly on inverts like rolls and gainers.  I can notice the difference on how hard you need to pull on wake spins too.  At a 20 pound ski weight, it really starts to feel like there is no ski strapped on.

                                                         

                                                        Generally, the less weight on the ski, the easier tricks are to control in the air and the more aggressive you can take-off with loaded line and not get owned.  If your take-off is perfect with a 40 pound ski, then the ski kinda takes over and the trick is really easy.  With a 20 pounds ski, the ski never really takes over, so you must use more line tension, upper body weight, and push/pull with the feet to maneuver the ski for the landing.

                                                         

                                                        Most people that ride a lightweight ski for the first few times think it sucks.  Until you realize that the benefit is greater control in the air and maximizing loaded take-off while still maintaining control, the heavy ski will seem like a better deal.

                                                         

                                                        As for rider weight, I have not done much testing there.

                                                         


                                                        From: Brad Scott [mailto:bradx@...]
                                                        Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:36 AM
                                                        To: 'Bryan Steele'
                                                        Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                         

                                                        So Bryan, how much difference does the tower weight make? (though it all makes a difference when carrying the skis). And 4.5 pounds is certainly significant. I can see a big difference when the weight is far away from your center of gravity (say the t-bar and the board or wings). Is the weight difference less significant when it is closer (as far as how it affects your riding)?

                                                         

                                                        And I wonder if there is any way to factor in rider weight in the calculations. I know you wear a vest that doesn’t hold water like the neo vests – do you think that makes a difference?

                                                         

                                                        I don’t feel much difference when wearing a full wetsuit vs no wetsuit, but I might not be as sensitive to weight (or just think my technique is not as good if I ride poorly).

                                                         

                                                        Brad Scott

                                                         

                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                        Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:05 AM
                                                        To: 'Airjunky'
                                                        Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                         

                                                        Hmmm… guessing here.

                                                         

                                                        The metal tower plates costs $100?  Weight about 9 pounds.

                                                         

                                                        The plastic & Nomex tower plates are probably about $350 or so.  Weight about 4.5 pounds.

                                                         

                                                        Roughly, triple the cost and half the weight…

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         


                                                        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Airjunky
                                                        Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:23 PM
                                                        Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                         

                                                        And how many $/lb does that plastic tower cost compared to metal?

                                                         


                                                        From: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Steele
                                                        Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:07 PM
                                                        To: loubueller@...
                                                        Cc: Hydrofoil@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [Hydrofoil] towers

                                                         

                                                        <<The lighter the better . I've been thinking of having the top made of titanium to lose a little poundage>>

                                                        Titanium is pretty heavy, but the beauty of Ti is that you can use less material and still be strong enough.  With Ti, you can go thinner and still not break or permanently bend, but it will flex.  The flex is probably a good feature for the top of a seat tower.  The problem is that when the top of the seat tower flexes, it will push both sides of the tower outward, i.e. spread them apart more.  This is a stress that was never calculated with the standard tower plates and you will most likely bend them.

                                                        I'm not saying it won't work, but you will probably need to build some type of reinforcement to the tower plates to compensate for the extra force from the flexing top plate.  That will most likely kill any weight savings from a Ti top plate.

                                                        I prefer plastic towers with fiber reinforcement for weight savings and strength.  :)

                                                        Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                        chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                        Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                        chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                        Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                        chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/



                                                        Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                        chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/






                                                        Check the Hydrofoil Yahoo Group page featuring our own chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/

                                                        chat room, rider listings & an event calendar.
                                                        http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil/




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