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Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane

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  • Steve Maroney
    Dear Gang, I m having quite a bit of trouble when I solder a component lead (or jumper wire) to a through-hole pad that is connected to a ground plane. When I
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 23, 2010
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      Dear Gang,



      I'm having quite a bit of trouble when I solder a component lead (or
      jumper wire) to a through-hole pad that is connected to a ground plane.
      When I heat the component lead/pad and begin to apply solder, the solder
      flows outwards over the plane around the pad but not to the lead and/or
      pad itself. The more solder I continue to feed in just continues to
      build up outside of the pad. Every now and then , I'll get a pad that
      the solder will stay within, but most wont.



      I do NOT have a single problem soldering through hole pads NOT connected
      to a plane. Anyone else have this problem and/or know what the
      solution is or what Im doing wrong ?



      Love this list and thanks in advance.



      Best Regards,

      Steve Maroney



      Business Computer Support, LLC

      Mobile Phone:504-914-4704

      Office Phone: 504-904-0266

      Fax: 866-871-7797





      From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Shaw
      Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 8:14 PM
      To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Precipitate in ferric chloride storage
      bottle





      Philip Pemberton wrote:
      > Hi guys.
      >
      > I just dumped the contents of my 2-litre concertina bottle of FeCl3
      into
      > my etching tank, and about half way through I was treated to a loud
      > HISSSSS as this lot got dumped in the funnel:
      >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/album/338698001/pic/1
      053817307/view
      >
      > Basically, it's a dark brown precipitate that's formed into round
      loops,
      > not unlike dead leaves in autumn. I now have the unenviable job of
      > dismantling the tank and cleaning out the base and the air bubbler.
      One
      > of these days I'll rig up a proper circulation pump and filter system
      > (not unlike those on photo-lab machines if you've ever seen inside one

      > of those)...
      >
      > But anyway, back to the subject of my question. Does anyone know what
      > this stuff is? My FeCl3 is a somewhat greenish brown at this point,
      but
      > I've got a 5-litre bottle of "hyper-activated" FeCl3 in the garage.
      > Would there be any benefit to adding a bit more concentrate to the
      > working tank?
      >
      > And the final question: how the hell do I get rid of this stuff? Flush

      > it down the loo? Double-bag it and chuck it in the bin? Call a local
      > haz-chem company who won't touch it until I've got some arbitrary
      number
      > of litres of the stuff and am willing to pay several hundred quid in
      > disposal fees?

      See if HCl dissolves it. If so, you can keep using it as etchant.
      If you have a bubbler to agitate the tank when etching, things will
      get much easier.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Philip Pemberton
      ... Hmm, HCl+H2O2... isn t that the starter for a CuCl etch bath? That is, you mix HCl and H2O2, start up the air bubbler, then chuck in a few chunks of
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2010
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        On 27/09/10 20:15, Hector Garcia wrote:
        > Regenerate it
        >
        > http://www.qsl.net/iz7ath/web/02_brew/14_howto/02_clor/index.htm

        Hmm, HCl+H2O2... isn't that the 'starter' for a CuCl etch bath? That is,
        you mix HCl and H2O2, start up the air bubbler, then chuck in a few
        chunks of copper and wait.

        So after that, you'd pretty much end up with a 'hybrid' etch bath,
        consisting of FeCl3 and CuCl... interesting... Might explain why my etch
        bath is going somewhat green.

        Would 9% H2O2 and 'brick cleaner' HCl be OK for this, or do I need
        something more concentrated?

        Thanks,
        --
        Phil.
        ygroups@...
        http://www.philpem.me.uk/
      • Slavko Kocjancic
        ... You need mode HCL and H2O2 to regenerate that. Just use straight HCL and H2O2 to etch board. ... For etching just use 9% H2O2 and HCL. One part HCL and
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 1, 2010
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          Na 1.10.2010 17:34, Philip Pemberton je pisal:
          > On 27/09/10 20:15, Hector Garcia wrote:
          >> Regenerate it
          >>
          >> http://www.qsl.net/iz7ath/web/02_brew/14_howto/02_clor/index.htm
          > Hmm, HCl+H2O2... isn't that the 'starter' for a CuCl etch bath? That is,
          > you mix HCl and H2O2, start up the air bubbler, then chuck in a few
          > chunks of copper and wait.
          >
          > So after that, you'd pretty much end up with a 'hybrid' etch bath,
          > consisting of FeCl3 and CuCl... interesting... Might explain why my etch
          > bath is going somewhat green.

          You need mode HCL and H2O2 to regenerate that. Just use straight HCL and
          H2O2 to etch board.

          > Would 9% H2O2 and 'brick cleaner' HCl be OK for this, or do I need
          > something more concentrated?

          For etching just use 9% H2O2 and HCL. One part HCL and aprox 3 part
          9%H2O2. No water needed. Use as smal as you can quantity just to cover
          board.

          > Thanks,
        • Donald H Locker
          Insufficient heat, basically. Ground planes such the heat away and solder will not flow where the temperature is too low. You may need a hotter iron or to
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 3, 2010
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            Insufficient heat, basically.

            Ground planes such the heat away and solder will not flow where the temperature is too low. You may need a hotter iron or to raise the temperature of the iron you have (if it is temp-controlled). When all parts of the joint are hot enough (not too cool, not too hot) the solder should flow right into it as you would expect. Don't feed more solder in than necessary to make a good joint. The excess will just cool the region more.

            Make sure you heat the joint, not the solder. You might need to get a little solder on the tip of the iron the aid heat transfer, but don't expect to melt solder on the iron and have it flow into the joint. Heat the joint, then add the solder to it.

            BTW, if you are starting a new thread, it's best to do so by sending a brand new email to the group <mailto://Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> rather than replying to an existing thread. Even if you change the subject line, your new email will be associated with the previous thread through identifiers in the hearders that the email systems of the world attach.

            HTH,
            Donald.
            --
            *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
            () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
            /\ ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

            ----- Original Message -----

            > From: "Steve Maroney" <steve@...>
            > To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:02:18 AM
            > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane
            >
            > Dear Gang,
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm having quite a bit of trouble when I solder a component lead (or
            > jumper wire) to a through-hole pad that is connected to a ground plane.
            > When I heat the component lead/pad and begin to apply solder, the solder
            > flows outwards over the plane around the pad but not to the lead and/or
            > pad itself. The more solder I continue to feed in just continues to
            > build up outside of the pad. Every now and then , I'll get a pad that
            > the solder will stay within, but most wont.
            >
            >
            >
            > I do NOT have a single problem soldering through hole pads NOT connected
            > to a plane. Anyone else have this problem and/or know what the
            > solution is or what Im doing wrong ?
            >
            >
            >
            > Love this list and thanks in advance.
            >
            >
            >
            > Best Regards,
            > Steve Maroney
            >
            >
            > Business Computer Support, LLC
            > Mobile Phone:504-914-4704
            > Office Phone: 504-904-0266
            > Fax: 866-871-7797
            >
            >

            [snip]
          • Donald H Locker
            Oops Fingers are getting fatter ... [snip]
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 3, 2010
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              Oops Fingers are getting fatter
              ----- Original Message -----

              > From: "Donald H Locker" <dhlocker@...>
              > To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2010 4:01:25 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane
              >
              > Insufficient heat, basically.
              >
              > Ground planes such the heat away and solder will not flow where the

              ... "suck" the heat away ...

              > temperature is too low. You may need a hotter iron or to raise the
              > temperature of the iron you have (if it is temp-controlled). When all
              > parts of the joint are hot enough (not too cool, not too hot) the
              > solder should flow right into it as you would expect. Don't feed more
              > solder in than necessary to make a good joint. The excess will just
              > cool the region more.
              >

              [snip]
            • Howard Chester
              ... Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane ... Hello Steve, Does your PCB package Have a thermal relief setting in the copper
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
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                > From: "Steve Maroney" <steve@...>
                > To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:02:18 AM
                > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane
                >
                > Dear Gang,
                >
                Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane
                >
                >
                > I'm having quite a bit of trouble when I solder a component lead (or
                > jumper wire) to a through-hole pad that is connected to a ground plane.
                > When I heat the component lead/pad and begin to apply solder, the solder
                > flows outwards over the plane around the pad but not to the lead and/or
                > pad itself. The more solder I continue to feed in just continues to
                > build up outside of the pad. Every now and then , I'll get a pad that
                > the solder will stay within, but most wont.
                >
                >
                >
                > I do NOT have a single problem soldering through hole pads NOT connected
                > to a plane. Anyone else have this problem and/or know what the
                > solution is or what Im doing wrong ?
                >
                >
                >
                > Love this list and thanks in advance.
                >
                >
                >
                > Best Regards,
                > Steve Maroney

                Hello Steve, Does your PCB package Have a thermal relief setting in the copper fill function?
                By using this function when doing the copper fill in PCB layout helps when soldering by stopping the heat from your soldering iron being shunted to the ground plane.
                You should have various options in copper fill(also called copper pour) to select the thermal relief settings, eg. size, number of spokes, separate settings for SMD devices etc.
                If your package does not have these settings check out the free DIPTrace schematic and PCB package (300 pin limit) at
                http://diptrace.com
                Hope this is of some help with your current problem, chester
















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Slavko Kocjancic
                ... The problem is that ground plane isn t conected to trought hole as thermal pads. ie the ground plane have only hole instead little hatch patern around hole
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
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                  Na 4.10.2010 12:39, Howard Chester je pisal:
                  >> From: "Steve Maroney"<steve@...>
                  >> To: "Homebrew PCBs"<Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:02:18 AM
                  >> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane
                  >>
                  >> Dear Gang,
                  >>
                  > Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Trouble with through hole pads connected to plane
                  >>
                  >> I'm having quite a bit of trouble when I solder a component lead (or
                  >> jumper wire) to a through-hole pad that is connected to a ground plane.
                  >> When I heat the component lead/pad and begin to apply solder, the solder
                  >> flows outwards over the plane around the pad but not to the lead and/or
                  >> pad itself. The more solder I continue to feed in just continues to
                  >> build up outside of the pad. Every now and then , I'll get a pad that
                  >> the solder will stay within, but most wont.
                  >>
                  >>

                  The problem is that ground plane isn't conected to trought hole as
                  thermal pads. ie the ground plane have only hole instead little hatch
                  patern around hole and BAD soldering TECHNIK or soldering IRON.

                  As you say that solder flows around I think the soldering technik is to
                  blame.
                  If you have screwdriver tip then hold soldering iron about at 60-70
                  degres (near vertical) and be shure to touch wire with more surface
                  contact as board and apply solder from opposite side. This should work.
                  If not then the temperature is to low. The key is to melt solder in wire
                  1'st and then quick put solder wire into juniction place.
                  If holes are plated then in oposite side the solder should have convex
                  shape not concave (if it's like blob then isnt ok) - Soldering iron to
                  cold or very bad solder.
                • Andrew Villeneuve
                  ... EagleCAD also allows you to enable thermal relief patterns on copper fills/pours, and I d highly recommend it for any homebrew work. To enable it, get info
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
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                    On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Howard Chester <howard.chester@...>wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Hello Steve, Does your PCB package Have a thermal relief setting in the
                    > copper fill function?
                    > By using this function when doing the copper fill in PCB layout helps when
                    > soldering by stopping the heat from your soldering iron being shunted to the
                    > ground plane.
                    > You should have various options in copper fill(also called copper pour) to
                    > select the thermal relief settings, eg. size, number of spokes, separate
                    > settings for SMD devices etc.
                    > If your package does not have these settings check out the free DIPTrace
                    > schematic and PCB package (300 pin limit) at
                    > http://diptrace.com
                    > Hope this is of some help with your current problem, chester
                    >

                    EagleCAD also allows you to enable thermal relief patterns on copper
                    fills/pours, and I'd highly recommend it for any homebrew work.

                    To enable it, get info on your fill polygon, and check the "Thermals"
                    checkbox.

                    -Andrew


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Andrew
                    And so does Kicad ... Maybe we should ask which -- if any -- commonly used PCB programs do NOT include thermal relief options? :)
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
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                      And so does Kicad ...

                      Maybe we should ask which -- if any -- commonly used PCB programs do NOT include thermal relief options? :)

                      --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Howard Chester <howard.chester@...>wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hello Steve, Does your PCB package Have a thermal relief setting in the
                      > > copper fill function?
                      > > By using this function when doing the copper fill in PCB layout helps when
                      > > soldering by stopping the heat from your soldering iron being shunted to the
                      > > ground plane.
                      > > You should have various options in copper fill(also called copper pour) to
                      > > select the thermal relief settings, eg. size, number of spokes, separate
                      > > settings for SMD devices etc.
                      > > If your package does not have these settings check out the free DIPTrace
                      > > schematic and PCB package (300 pin limit) at
                      > > http://diptrace.com
                      > > Hope this is of some help with your current problem, chester
                      > >
                      >
                      > EagleCAD also allows you to enable thermal relief patterns on copper
                      > fills/pours, and I'd highly recommend it for any homebrew work.
                      >
                      > To enable it, get info on your fill polygon, and check the "Thermals"
                      > checkbox.
                      >
                      > -Andrew
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • jan.vorlicek
                      I believe that one way to solve this problem is to preheat the board before the soldering. You don t need to buy an expensive preheater, a 50W halogen light
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
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                        I believe that one way to solve this problem is to preheat the board before the soldering. You don't need to buy an expensive preheater, a 50W halogen light bulb or an infrared bulb placed few centimeters from the board would do the job. I am using this technique even for desoldering SMD components, so it is capable of providing a good amount of heat.
                        If you want to limit the preheating to a smaller area, you can mask off the parts you want to shield from the heat using a kitchen aluminium foil.

                        Regards,

                        Jan

                        --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Maroney" <steve@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Gang,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I'm having quite a bit of trouble when I solder a component lead (or
                        > jumper wire) to a through-hole pad that is connected to a ground plane.
                        > When I heat the component lead/pad and begin to apply solder, the solder
                        > flows outwards over the plane around the pad but not to the lead and/or
                        > pad itself. The more solder I continue to feed in just continues to
                        > build up outside of the pad. Every now and then , I'll get a pad that
                        > the solder will stay within, but most wont.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I do NOT have a single problem soldering through hole pads NOT connected
                        > to a plane. Anyone else have this problem and/or know what the
                        > solution is or what Im doing wrong ?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Love this list and thanks in advance.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Best Regards,
                        >
                        > Steve Maroney
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Business Computer Support, LLC
                        >
                        > Mobile Phone:504-914-4704
                        >
                        > Office Phone: 504-904-0266
                        >
                        > Fax: 866-871-7797
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Shaw
                        > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 8:14 PM
                        > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Precipitate in ferric chloride storage
                        > bottle
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Philip Pemberton wrote:
                        > > Hi guys.
                        > >
                        > > I just dumped the contents of my 2-litre concertina bottle of FeCl3
                        > into
                        > > my etching tank, and about half way through I was treated to a loud
                        > > HISSSSS as this lot got dumped in the funnel:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/album/338698001/pic/1
                        > 053817307/view
                        > >
                        > > Basically, it's a dark brown precipitate that's formed into round
                        > loops,
                        > > not unlike dead leaves in autumn. I now have the unenviable job of
                        > > dismantling the tank and cleaning out the base and the air bubbler.
                        > One
                        > > of these days I'll rig up a proper circulation pump and filter system
                        > > (not unlike those on photo-lab machines if you've ever seen inside one
                        >
                        > > of those)...
                        > >
                        > > But anyway, back to the subject of my question. Does anyone know what
                        > > this stuff is? My FeCl3 is a somewhat greenish brown at this point,
                        > but
                        > > I've got a 5-litre bottle of "hyper-activated" FeCl3 in the garage.
                        > > Would there be any benefit to adding a bit more concentrate to the
                        > > working tank?
                        > >
                        > > And the final question: how the hell do I get rid of this stuff? Flush
                        >
                        > > it down the loo? Double-bag it and chuck it in the bin? Call a local
                        > > haz-chem company who won't touch it until I've got some arbitrary
                        > number
                        > > of litres of the stuff and am willing to pay several hundred quid in
                        > > disposal fees?
                        >
                        > See if HCl dissolves it. If so, you can keep using it as etchant.
                        > If you have a bubbler to agitate the tank when etching, things will
                        > get much easier.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • DJ Delorie
                        If your pad is solidly connected to the plane, that s normal. Your EDA software should have a way to make a thermal barrier around the pad, which not only
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 5, 2010
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                          If your pad is solidly connected to the plane, that's normal. Your EDA
                          software should have a way to make a thermal barrier around the pad,
                          which not only keeps the heat where it's supposed to be, but also the
                          solder:

                          http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/gs/gs.html#thermal

                          Otherwise, the trick will be to (1) flux the lead, and (2) apply heat to
                          both the lead and pin while applying solder to the other side of the *lead*.
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