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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Drilling

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  • Stefan Trethan
    There s a duty cycle on the 12V model? I didn t know that. Doesn t get warm enough for me to notice so I suppose it ll be OK. Probably depends a lot on the
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 1, 2010
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      There's a duty cycle on the 12V model? I didn't know that.
      Doesn't get warm enough for me to notice so I suppose it'll be OK.

      Probably depends a lot on the load, for example if you do some
      grinding or cutting it'll draw a lot more power than just drilling
      PCBs. But large mounting holes (over 3mm) start to show the limits of
      the 12V drill.

      ST

      On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:12 AM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

      >  I avoided the 12 volt proxxon because of the duty cycle. I
      > figured that the AC model was capable of continuous operation, and I
      > do a lot of drilling at one time, since I tend to do runs of different
      > PC boards.
      >
      > Harvey
      >
    • Harvey White
      ... They didn t mention it specifically, but the implication on the larger (and more expensive) one was that it *was* built for continuous operation. It s
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 1, 2010
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        On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:32:38 +0100, you wrote:

        >There's a duty cycle on the 12V model? I didn't know that.
        >Doesn't get warm enough for me to notice so I suppose it'll be OK.

        They didn't mention it specifically, but the implication on the larger
        (and more expensive) one was that it *was* built for continuous
        operation.

        It's certainly cooler than the Dremel in the same application, wasn't
        a cheap Dremel, either....

        I was also concerned with the relative power of the motor. I can
        drill 0.120 holes in FR4 without a problem at 20K RPM.


        >
        >Probably depends a lot on the load, for example if you do some
        >grinding or cutting it'll draw a lot more power than just drilling
        >PCBs. But large mounting holes (over 3mm) start to show the limits of
        >the 12V drill.

        Ah, well, I might get one of the 12 volt ones for another project, a
        multi axis mill that is somewhat in production.... one of these days.

        Harvey

        >
        >ST
        >
        >On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:12 AM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
        >
        >>  I avoided the 12 volt proxxon because of the duty cycle. I
        >> figured that the AC model was capable of continuous operation, and I
        >> do a lot of drilling at one time, since I tend to do runs of different
        >> PC boards.
        >>
        >> Harvey
        >>
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Harvey White
        ... I can understand that one. ... The drill stand wobbles from side to side, which could be fixed. I never bothered because it did work. Takes a bit of
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 1, 2010
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          On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:10:32 -0800, you wrote:

          >Hi,
          >
          >
          >
          >This discussion is immediately interesting. I'm at the stage where I
          >need a drill press for PCBs. Because I'm already heavily invested in the
          >Dremel system, I was about to buy the Dremel drill press to use with my
          >XPR tool. I looked at the Proxxon system. It's nice and may be better,
          >but I do NOT need (and can't afford) yet another tool system!
          >
          I can understand that one.

          >
          >
          >Can someone tell me more details of the problems alluded to with the
          >Dremel? Can they be fixed with a little machining to tighten tolerances?
          >(I did that with their routing table.) Would just taking extra care be a
          >workaround? Or, is Dremel a totally lost cause for PCBs?
          >

          The drill stand wobbles from side to side, which could be fixed. I
          never bothered because it did work. Takes a bit of practice, but it's
          ok. The collet is pretty miserable, being made of aluminum and 4
          flutes allows it to be off center. This introduces an unpredictable
          wobble (runout) in the drill. At 20K RPM, you risk killing a carbide
          drill (say in the finer than #70 range, perhaps), but the holes are
          oversize.

          The Proxxon uses steel collets that are 3 jaw construction, and seems
          to be a lot nicer. Whether or not the Proxxon collets fit the Dremel,
          and whether or not that would fix the runout problem on the Dremel, I
          don't know.

          Extra care is fine, but it depends on what you're doing.

          I use about a 0.030 drill for the ICs (0.025 square post, etc), and a
          #70 or #71 for through hole parts leads at the finest. When making
          vias for some boards, I use about a #78 drill, or perhaps a bit finer
          (#80). There is where the runout can be a problem.

          If you have the Dremel already, and use carbide bits, you will get
          satisfactory operation with the Dremel. The Proxxon is a step above,
          but it's up to you to decide if you need the extra expense. The
          Dremel drill stand is certainly useful, and I don't regret buying it.

          I just wanted better after a while.


          Harvey


          >
          >
          >Jim
          >
          >
          >
          >From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
          >[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James
          >Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:45 AM
          >To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Drilling
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >So what do you guys use for drilling boards? I have a cheap drill press
          >which is barely adequate for occasional drilling, but there's enough
          >slop in the quill that it's extremely difficult not to snap off <1mm
          >bits. I've had the best results using the manual mill at a friend's
          >machine shop but it seems silly to use a 3HP spindle to turn a .85mm
          >bit. I almost bought one of those little Dremel stands since I have a
          >couple of the rotary tools but I've heard they are flimsy and don't work
          >well. Is there a good low cost option or am I best off just building
          >something myself?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------
          >
          >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Stefan Trethan
          The proxxon collets have slightly larger diameter and don t fit into the dremel. ST
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 1, 2010
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            The proxxon collets have slightly larger diameter and don't fit into the dremel.

            ST

            On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
            >  Whether or not the Proxxon collets fit the Dremel,
            > and whether or not that would fix the runout problem on the Dremel, I
            > don't know.
          • twb8899
            ... I have one of these small drill presses and they work good. Spindle run out is minimal and they don t cost much. There are always a few on ebay ranging
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 1, 2010
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              --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
              >
              > So what do you guys use for drilling boards? I have a cheap drill press which is barely adequate for occasional drilling, but there's enough slop in the quill that it's extremely difficult not to snap off <1mm bits. I've had the best results using the manual mill at a friend's machine shop but it seems silly to use a 3HP spindle to turn a .85mm bit. I almost bought one of those little Dremel stands since I have a couple of the rotary tools but I've heard they are flimsy and don't work well. Is there a good low cost option or am I best off just building something myself?
              >

              I have one of these small drill presses and they work good. Spindle run out is minimal and they don't cost much. There are always a few on ebay ranging from $70.00 USD to $129.00 USD.

              Check out Ebay items 250571657354 and 290394317121

              I also have a Cameron MD-70 micro drill press. Made in USA and VERY nice but expensive. They occasionally show up on ebay and sell fast.

              http://www.cameronmicrodrillpress.com/presses.html

              An Aetna AcroDrill is what I use most of the time. I have two of them. One with the optical scope and one with a locating stylus. I replaced the optical scope on my machine with a small TV camera and it works much better. The drill location is magnified up to 20X with the TV camera. You can actually watch the drill bit come through the board and then retract.

              I use the machine with optics to drill small runs. On larger jobs I drill a template on the machine with optics. This template is stacked with three boards and drilled on the stylus equipped machine. It drills about 60 to 100 holes per minute and almost never breaks a bit. The spindle speed is adjustable from 5000 to 45,000 rpm.

              The company that made these machines closed the doors a couple of months ago so parts are no longer available but they are easy to maintain. Here are two ebay listings for this type of drilling machine:

              310134897215 and 360211069073

              Unless you go with CNC the machines listed above are very effective for use in a small shop.

              Tom
            • Herbert E. Plett
              I use the Dremel stand, but previously I cared to shim the (vertical) guides tight enough to remove the floppiness. works very well, no danger of breaking
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 1, 2010
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                I use the Dremel stand, but previously I cared to shim the (vertical) guides tight enough to remove the floppiness.
                works very well, no danger of breaking bits.


                --- On Sun, 1/31/10, Jim Barnes <jim@...> wrote:

                >
                > Can someone tell me more details of the problems alluded to
                > with the
                > Dremel? Can they be fixed with a little machining to
                > tighten tolerances?
                > (I did that with their routing table.) Would just taking
                > extra care be a
                > workaround? Or, is Dremel a totally lost cause for PCBs?
                >
              • Jim Barnes
                Hi, If the Dremel s problem is mainly the collet, you might try the Dremel Chuck. It s a steel (according to my magnet), three-jaw, keyless chuck. Though
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 2, 2010
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                  Hi,



                  If the Dremel's problem is mainly the collet, you might try the Dremel
                  Chuck. It's a steel (according to my magnet), three-jaw, keyless chuck.
                  Though spec'd down to only 1/32" (31 mil), it holds 28 mil bits tightly;
                  I don't have anything smaller to try. I haven't drilled a PC board with
                  it yet, but I've used it successfully for tiny holes in other projects.



                  Jim



                  From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harvey White
                  Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 4:00 AM
                  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Drilling





                  =============== <snip> ===================>
                  >
                  >Can someone tell me more details of the problems alluded to with the
                  >Dremel? Can they be fixed with a little machining to tighten
                  tolerances?
                  >(I did that with their routing table.) Would just taking extra care be
                  a
                  >workaround? Or, is Dremel a totally lost cause for PCBs?
                  >

                  The drill stand wobbles from side to side, which could be fixed. I
                  never bothered because it did work. Takes a bit of practice, but it's
                  ok. The collet is pretty miserable, being made of aluminum and 4
                  flutes allows it to be off center. This introduces an unpredictable
                  wobble (runout) in the drill. At 20K RPM, you risk killing a carbide
                  drill (say in the finer than #70 range, perhaps), but the holes are
                  oversize.

                  ================< snip >=====================

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