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Re: Pulsar's "TIA" Laminator - any good?

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  • Jeffrey Jenkins
    ... It s like deja vu all over again!?! I am getting exactly the same crappy results I got with the Dyn-art paper 10+ years ago... I have the light blue paper
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1 6:05 AM
      --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

      > I'm still trying to figure out the paper though. I have two types, an
      > older white pack, and a newer blue pack. At the moment, the white
      > gives better results, but I don't know why. I've tried humidifying
      > the blue, but it just doesn't seem to take up as much toner out of the
      > printer as the white does. Next time I'm going to try running it
      > through the printer twice (the first time, not printing anything) to
      > see if prepping the paper helps it take up more toner.
      >

      It's like deja vu all over again!?! I am getting exactly the same
      crappy results I got with the Dyn-art paper 10+ years ago...

      I have the light blue paper as well and, like you, I'm having problems
      with the toner density. I just put in a brand new OEM (not reman.)
      toner cartridge into my Oki C5100 (not a "toy" laser printer) and
      tried tweaking every setting available to bump up the density, all to
      no avail.

      Then there's the laminator... I see why they keep recommending 0.032"
      boards over 0.064" - the thicker board jams up the laminator almost
      immediately.

      Now, I imagine that with practice and tweaking I'll be able to get
      everything right, but if it is this fickle to begin with I'm not
      confident that any tricks or settings I determine now will work
      consistently in the future.

      I suppose I better read up on all those posts concerning *other*
      papers to use for this process... Ugh.

      -Jeff
    • Jeffrey Jenkins
      It looks like I ve nailed down a reasonably reliable process for making boards with the Pulsar paper after not too much trial and error. I have learned a few
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 8 3:09 PM
        It looks like I've nailed down a reasonably reliable process for
        making boards with the Pulsar paper after not too much trial and
        error. I have learned a few lessons that I'll pass along in case they
        help someone else:

        * totally forget about using an iron - you need a laminator

        * the GBC H210 laminator CAN NOT handle 1/16" board (1/32" works)

        * the Green TRF film makes a huge difference in trace quality

        * 1:2 muriatic/hydrogen peroxide rocks as an etchant!

        * you have to run whole sheets of Pulsar paper through - no "cutouts"

        Let me expound a little on #2 and #5... #2 - Maybe some people can
        get 1/16" (0.062") PC board to run through their "TIA Laminator" (aka
        GBC H210), but I certainly couldn't. 0.032" board (1/16") is a bit too
        flexible to use for SMT designs but it is totally adequate for
        prototyping designs before sending them off to a board house.

        #5 - Earlier in this thread I complained about how the toner wouldn't
        transfer evenly, leading to spotty/broken traces. Once I ran full
        sheets of the Pulsar paper through, instead of cutting out pieces just
        big enough to contain the board image, I got great results. Of course
        this means that a lot of paper gets wasted. Still, at a $1.50 a page
        it's a lot cheaper, and faster, than sending Gerber files to the board
        house.
      • DJ Delorie
        One thing that worked for me (I cut out little bits of paper too) is a trick included with the old white sheets. Put the paper in a closed container, on a
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 8 4:24 PM
          One thing that worked for me (I cut out little bits of paper too) is a
          trick included with the old white sheets. Put the paper in a closed
          container, on a rack or something, glossy side up, with some water in
          the container (either use a plastic container, or put a bowl in a
          cardboard box). Keep the paper there for three minutes, use right
          away. This increases the moisture in the paper, and it seems to grab
          and hold on to toner much better than if it dries out.

          Don't let the paper get wet at all! It's the humidity, not the wet,
          that does the trick.
        • wayneosdias
          ... too ... My exp is that the H210 can handle 1/16 independantly when the heat is low and also when the heat is full power (fully warmed) w/some moderate
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 8 10:22 PM
            > * the GBC H210 laminator CAN NOT handle 1/16" board (1/32" works)

            > Let me expound a little on #2 and #5... #2 - Maybe some people can
            > get 1/16" (0.062") PC board to run through their "TIA Laminator" (aka
            > GBC H210), but I certainly couldn't. 0.032" board (1/16") is a bit
            too
            > flexible to use for SMT designs but it is totally adequate for
            > prototyping designs before sending them off to a board house.

            My exp is that the H210 can handle 1/16 independantly when the heat is
            low and also when the heat is full power (fully warmed) w/some
            moderate pushing and pulling. After the unit has been on full for
            awhile it starts getting really cranky and doesnt want to pass
            anything, this includes 1/32 boards.

            Ive managed to get the double sided 1/16 to work w/some fiddling and
            patience. The 1/32 is unacceptable for larger boards, they are too
            flexible and warp easily during the process. It was suggested that the
            1/32 can be trued by hand and has no memory, but for lead free smd and
            pc mount xfer they just wont work. I contemplated sandwiching 2 1/32
            boards, but seems like a pita and no one make 1/32 lead free clad
            boards.

            cheers
            wayne
          • Jim Pruitt
            Hello Wayne and the group. This web site might be helpful on modifying and using the GBC laminators: http://www.qsl.net/ve2emm/pcb/pcb_mach_mod_e.html Pulsar
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 22 9:17 PM
              Hello Wayne and the group.

              This web site might be helpful on modifying and using the GBC laminators:
              http://www.qsl.net/ve2emm/pcb/pcb_mach_mod_e.html

              Pulsar used to have another similar write up about converting the GBC
              laminator and slowing it down to accept thicker pc board material but he has
              apparently removed it from his site.

              I modified mine and it takes the board material with no problem. I can also
              still use it as a laminator.

              Good luck.

              Jim Pruitt

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: wayneosdias
              To: Homebrew_PCB
              Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:22 PM
              Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar's "TIA" Laminator - any good?

              > * the GBC H210 laminator CAN NOT handle 1/16" board (1/32" works)

              > Let me expound a little on #2 and #5... #2 - Maybe some people can
              > get 1/16" (0.062") PC board to run through their "TIA Laminator" (aka
              > GBC H210), but I certainly couldn't. 0.032" board (1/16") is a bit
              too
              > flexible to use for SMT designs but it is totally adequate for
              > prototyping designs before sending them off to a board house.

              My exp is that the H210 can handle 1/16 independantly when the heat is
              low and also when the heat is full power (fully warmed) w/some
              moderate pushing and pulling. After the unit has been on full for
              awhile it starts getting really cranky and doesnt want to pass
              anything, this includes 1/32 boards.

              Ive managed to get the double sided 1/16 to work w/some fiddling and
              patience. The 1/32 is unacceptable for larger boards, they are too
              flexible and warp easily during the process. It was suggested that the
              1/32 can be trued by hand and has no memory, but for lead free smd and
              pc mount xfer they just wont work. I contemplated sandwiching 2 1/32
              boards, but seems like a pita and no one make 1/32 lead free clad
              boards.

              cheers
              wayne
            • Jim Pruitt
              This web site might be helpful on using the GBC laminators: http://www.qsl.net/ve2emm/pcb/pcb_mach_mod_e.html Pulsar used to have another similar write up
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 22 9:18 PM
                This web site might be helpful on using the GBC laminators:
                http://www.qsl.net/ve2emm/pcb/pcb_mach_mod_e.html

                Pulsar used to have another similar write up about converting the GBC
                laminator and slowing it down to accept thicker pc board material but he has
                apparently removed it from his site.

                I modified mine and it takes the board material with no problem.

                Good luck.

                Jim Pruitt

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: wayneosdias
                To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:22 PM
                Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar's "TIA" Laminator - any good?



                > * the GBC H210 laminator CAN NOT handle 1/16" board (1/32" works)

                > Let me expound a little on #2 and #5... #2 - Maybe some people can
                > get 1/16" (0.062") PC board to run through their "TIA Laminator" (aka
                > GBC H210), but I certainly couldn't. 0.032" board (1/16") is a bit
                too
                > flexible to use for SMT designs but it is totally adequate for
                > prototyping designs before sending them off to a board house.

                My exp is that the H210 can handle 1/16 independantly when the heat is
                low and also when the heat is full power (fully warmed) w/some
                moderate pushing and pulling. After the unit has been on full for
                awhile it starts getting really cranky and doesnt want to pass
                anything, this includes 1/32 boards.

                Ive managed to get the double sided 1/16 to work w/some fiddling and
                patience. The 1/32 is unacceptable for larger boards, they are too
                flexible and warp easily during the process. It was suggested that the
                1/32 can be trued by hand and has no memory, but for lead free smd and
                pc mount xfer they just wont work. I contemplated sandwiching 2 1/32
                boards, but seems like a pita and no one make 1/32 lead free clad
                boards.

                cheers
                wayne
              • wayneosdias
                Hey Jim Sorry I didnt see your post till now. Ya I saw that page and asked frank about it and he said it has no impact on the laminators ability to pass
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 16, 2007
                  Hey Jim

                  Sorry I didnt see your post till now. Ya I saw that page and asked
                  frank about it and he said it has no impact on the laminators ability
                  to pass thicker media, he said it just slows the passing time. I
                  would figure if your reducing the RPMs, your increasing the torque,
                  so I dont see how it wouldnt help w/thicker media.

                  Anyway, ive noticed after using the HS210 for a bit now that itll
                  pass double sided 1/16 no prob, even boards that are 6x6 w/photo
                  paper both sides. I guess you just got to break her in a bit.

                  wayne

                  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pruitt" <wa7duy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Wayne and the group.
                  >
                  > This web site might be helpful on modifying and using the GBC
                  laminators:
                  > http://www.qsl.net/ve2emm/pcb/pcb_mach_mod_e.html
                  >
                  > Pulsar used to have another similar write up about converting the
                  GBC
                  > laminator and slowing it down to accept thicker pc board material
                  but he has
                  > apparently removed it from his site.
                  >
                  > I modified mine and it takes the board material with no problem. I
                  can also
                  > still use it as a laminator.
                  >
                  > Good luck.
                  >
                  > Jim Pruitt
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: wayneosdias
                  > To: Homebrew_PCB
                  > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:22 PM
                  > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pulsar's "TIA" Laminator - any good?
                  >
                  > > * the GBC H210 laminator CAN NOT handle 1/16" board (1/32" works)
                  >
                  > > Let me expound a little on #2 and #5... #2 - Maybe some people can
                  > > get 1/16" (0.062") PC board to run through their "TIA Laminator"
                  (aka
                  > > GBC H210), but I certainly couldn't. 0.032" board (1/16") is a bit
                  > too
                  > > flexible to use for SMT designs but it is totally adequate for
                  > > prototyping designs before sending them off to a board house.
                  >
                  > My exp is that the H210 can handle 1/16 independantly when the heat
                  is
                  > low and also when the heat is full power (fully warmed) w/some
                  > moderate pushing and pulling. After the unit has been on full for
                  > awhile it starts getting really cranky and doesnt want to pass
                  > anything, this includes 1/32 boards.
                  >
                  > Ive managed to get the double sided 1/16 to work w/some fiddling and
                  > patience. The 1/32 is unacceptable for larger boards, they are too
                  > flexible and warp easily during the process. It was suggested that
                  the
                  > 1/32 can be trued by hand and has no memory, but for lead free smd
                  and
                  > pc mount xfer they just wont work. I contemplated sandwiching 2 1/32
                  > boards, but seems like a pita and no one make 1/32 lead free clad
                  > boards.
                  >
                  > cheers
                  > wayne
                  >
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