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Re: Another wannabe Direct printer

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  • James Newton
    ... clad ... You missed curing. You have to cure the ink at the temperature specified at http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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      > Anyway I have convereted a C84 Epson to print on some thin copper
      clad
      > I am very disapointed in the results I have major pitting on the
      > etched PCB.
      >
      > I am using the genuine Durabrite inks.
      > I have tried yellow magenta and cyan even tried black.
      > yellow looked best but still not even usable.
      > Tried pre-etching + Preheating.
      > Tried FeCl and Sodium Persulfate.

      You missed curing. You have to cure the ink at the temperature
      specified at
      http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
      Without curing, it just washes off as you have seen.

      > Why do the color inks not laydown solid like the black they have an
      > orangepeel texture? Black looks solid but doesnt hold up.
      > All inks look solid when printed on paper.

      That seems to happen to most people and it doesn't matter. Volkan is
      the only person I am aware of who has been able to get it to print
      without the texture. The texture doesn't seem to hurt anything.

      > I think if I could get yellow to cover like the black it would
      > work.

      Magenta seems to have the reputation for the best resist after
      curing, but I believe there has been some success with other colors.
      Not black.

      >
      > I tried to use the durabrite ink as a blocker and tinplate and use
      the
      > tin as the etch resist but the durabrite didnt even holdup to the
      ITP
      > plating.


      Again, curing is a critical step.


      > Oh well enough rambling throw in your input or questions and I'll
      keep
      > plugging away.
      >
      > I may settle for using this to print NEGs for the dry film the
      black
      > on transparencys is way better than I expected that would speed
      things
      > up I wouldnt have to wait for the NEGs to be made.

      A number of people have reported success with that.


      > I will try and post some pictures Sunday.

      I alway appreciate seeing the pictures, and a description of what we
      are looking at would be even better.


      > Later
      > Ken
      >

      James Newton
      http://www.massmind.org
    • wnnelson0
      You have to cure the ink before you etch. 230C to 240C works best for me. If you preheat you should get the ink to look perfectly smooth after printing. If you
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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        You have to cure the ink before you etch. 230C to 240C works best for
        me. If you preheat you should get the ink to look perfectly smooth
        after printing. If you look in the photos section you can see that it
        works extremely well if done correctly.
      • kpyro2
        ... Opps yes just in the post though I have been curing the pcbs tried the oven at 200deg for 1 hr and right on the flat cooktop at semi low until the pcb
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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          <jamesmichaelnewton@...> wrote:
          > You missed curing. You have to cure the ink at the temperature
          Opps yes just in the post though I have been curing the pcbs tried
          the oven at 200deg for 1 hr and right on the flat cooktop at semi low
          until the pcb started to discolor.

          > > orangepeel texture? Black looks solid but doesnt hold up.
          > That seems to happen to most people and it doesn't matter.
          Ok I thought that the pit patterns kinda looked like what I was
          seeing in the ink so assumed it had something to do with it.

          I havent had much time to play the last few days I do think that
          using irfanview for my conversions seems to make the fill better
          but I havent had a chance to test it.

          > > I tried to use the durabrite ink as a blocker and tinplate and
          thinking out loud what about a ink that doesnt cure until exposed to
          uv I am sure they make them just finding the right one.

          I was even thinking about some kinda lacqure and flushing the heads
          after each use if I could figure out a solvent that wouldnt damage
          them.

          Anyone know how much plastic touches the ink after the spike and
          what kinda chemical resistance it has?

          > I alway appreciate seeing the pictures, and a description of what
          > we are looking at would be even better.
          I will get them I main computer is tied up crunching so I am stuck
          with the laptop for right now.

          Thanks
          Ken
        • kpyro2
          ... WOW thats alot hotter than I was going. Do you bake it at that temp? For how long? ... I tried this but I think my method was useless by the time I ran
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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            --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "wnnelson0" <wnnelson@...> wrote:
            >
            > You have to cure the ink before you etch. 230C to 240C works best for
            WOW thats alot hotter than I was going.
            Do you bake it at that temp? For how long?

            > If you preheat you should get the ink to look perfectly smooth
            I tried this but I think my method was useless by the time I ran from
            the oven to the printer I think it had totally cooled. I'll try again
            with a refined method.

            > after printing. If you look in the photos section you can see that it
            > works extremely well if done correctly.
            I have seen some VERY nice looking results thats why I JUMPED on the
            band wagon. I just am not seeing them yet I dont give up easy though.

            Thanks for the input.
            Ken
          • kpyro2
            Ok I went and looked at the pics again and yet I am doing something wrong. Duh! First nice mods on your printer. I am using a c84 BTW dont know if I said that
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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              Ok I went and looked at the pics again and yet I am doing something
              wrong. Duh!

              First nice mods on your printer.
              I am using a c84 BTW dont know if I said that before.

              A few more questions popped in my head.
              How much do you preheat your boards before printing?
              How long do you cure them?
              What paper settings and quality settings?
              and where is the file for that test board?

              I am sure theres more I am gonna spend some more time reading
              then try again.


              Thanks
              Ken
            • William Nelson
              I use a small heat-gun to preheat the board to about 75C. This heating is done on the feed tray and carrier so it is ready to go when I hit the print button. I
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 2, 2007
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                I use a small heat-gun to preheat the board to about 75C. This heating is done on the feed tray
                and carrier so it is ready to go when I hit the print button. I actually continue to heat while it
                is printing if it is a long board. You have to be careful to not melt the plastic on the back of
                the printer, ask me how I know. The cure time is the same as Stefan's about 3 minutes until the
                board is somewhat oxidized, slightly purple. I think most people are using matte paper setting
                with best photo. Is there is another setting which gives a better dot pattern but is is a lot
                slower. The board gets to cold using that setting. I'm not sure what you mean by " where is the
                file".
              • kpyro2
                ... Ok I can do that. After reading more last night I think you guys were right I wasnt cureing the ink but just drying it real well at 200 deg F. I think
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 2, 2007
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                  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, William Nelson <wnnelson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I use a small heat-gun to preheat the board to about 75C.
                  Ok I can do that.

                  After reading more last night I think you guys were right I wasnt
                  cureing the ink but just drying it real well at 200 deg F. I think
                  these two changes will help alot.

                  >you mean by " where is the file".
                  The file that the boards in your photo section were made from.
                  It says something like epson magenta t0623 and has a bunch of
                  sample footprints.

                  Thanks
                  Ken
                • William Nelson
                  I just made up that board in Eagle just for testing, I did not post the actual file. Anything will do. You need to crank up the heat to about 450F.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 2, 2007
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                    I just made up that board in Eagle just for testing, I did not post the actual file. Anything will
                    do. You need to crank up the heat to about 450F.
                  • juanabba
                    ... HI TO ALL a questions regarding this subject pls: Reading an article one of this days on this subject, the author mentioned we was able to feed ( on a NON
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 29, 2007
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                      --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kpyro2" <justnoone@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ok I went and looked at the pics again and yet I am doing something
                      > wrong. Duh!
                      >
                      > First nice mods on your printer.
                      > I am using a c84 BTW dont know if I said that before.
                      >
                      > A few more questions popped in my head.
                      > How much do you preheat your boards before printing?
                      > How long do you cure them?
                      > What paper settings and quality settings?
                      > and where is the file for that test board?
                      >
                      > I am sure theres more I am gonna spend some more time reading
                      > then try again.
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      > Ken
                      >
                      HI TO ALL

                      a questions regarding this subject pls:
                      Reading an article one of this days on this subject, the author
                      mentioned we was able to feed ( on a NON MECHANICALLY MODIFIED EPSON),
                      a pcb material ( obtained from E-bay ) with a thickness of (0.005" /
                      130 micrometer).
                      I spent quite some time trying to identify a source for this material,
                      as it will be perfect to my application, especially if I could avoid
                      the delicate work of printer modification.
                      So far I have not found any source for it on any country.
                      could anybody help please?????
                      Thanks in advance
                      JJ
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