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Questions about Holder 12 & parts

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  • gliccman
    I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 20, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.

      I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12

      1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?

      2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?

      3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?

      4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.

      5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?

      Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.

      Thanks
      Scot
      Great Lakes Bay Region
    • Kayle
      Scot- I recently purchase an 85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 25, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Scot-
        I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.

        I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.

        When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html

        So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.

        Hope this helps,

        Steve


        --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@...> wrote:
        >
        > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.
        >
        > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12
        >
        > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?
        >
        > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?
        >
        > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?
        >
        > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.
        >
        > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?
        >
        > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Scot
        > Great Lakes Bay Region
        >
      • Scot Spencer
        Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.? Scot ... From: Kayle Subject: [Holder12]
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 26, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?
          Scot

          --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:

          From: Kayle <katemerart@...>
          Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
          To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM
















           









          Scot-

          I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.



          I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.



          When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html



          So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.



          Hope this helps,



          Steve



          --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@...> wrote:

          >

          > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.

          >

          > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12

          >

          > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?

          >

          > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?

          >

          > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?

          >

          > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.

          >

          > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?

          >

          > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.

          >

          > Thanks

          > Scot

          > Great Lakes Bay Region

          >



























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kayle
          It is very easy to rig. The mast is in two parts and the sails has a sleeve that slides down over the mast. I then step the you go. I can easily rig myself in
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 26, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            It is very easy to rig. The mast is in two parts and the sails has a sleeve that slides down over the mast. I then step the you go. I can easily rig myself in less than 10 minutes. I used to sail a sunfish, and it is very similar in how easy it is to rig. I boat this boat to replace an Omega 13 to have something that was smaller and easier to rig quickly and have been very pleased. Not to say the Omega was that difficult, but this is even easier. Hope that helps.

            Steve

            --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?
            > Scot
            >
            > --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Kayle <katemerart@...>
            > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
            > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM
            >
            >
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            > Scot-
            >
            > I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.
            >
            >
            >
            > I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.
            >
            >
            >
            > When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html
            >
            >
            >
            > So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.
            >
            >
            >
            > Hope this helps,
            >
            >
            >
            > Steve
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@> wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12
            >
            > >
            >
            > > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Thanks
            >
            > > Scot
            >
            > > Great Lakes Bay Region
            >
            > >
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            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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          • Handydonlegend
            I race a Holder 12. I pull it off the trailer onto the beach and can rig it complete in 10 min. If I don t B.S. with friends. Don in St. Louis Sent from my
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 26, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              I race a Holder 12. I pull it off the trailer onto the beach and can rig it complete in 10 min. If I don't B.S. with friends.
              Don in St. Louis


              Sent from my Samsung Transform™ Ultra

              Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:

              Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?
              Scot

              --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:

              From: Kayle <katemerart@...>
              Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
              To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM

               

              Scot-

              I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.

              I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.

              When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html

              So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.

              Hope this helps,

              Steve

              --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@...> wrote:

              >

              > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.

              >

              > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12

              >

              > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?

              >

              > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?

              >

              > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?

              >

              > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.

              >

              > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?

              >

              > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.

              >

              > Thanks

              > Scot

              > Great Lakes Bay Region

              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Scot Spencer
              Wow, that s quick! ScotGreat Lakes Bay Region ... From: Handydonlegend Subject: Re: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 27, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Wow, that's quick!
                ScotGreat Lakes Bay Region

                --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Handydonlegend <HandyDonLegend@...> wrote:

                From: Handydonlegend <HandyDonLegend@...>
                Subject: Re: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
                To: "Scot Spencer" <gliccman@...>, Holder12@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 2:11 AM
















                 









                I race a Holder 12. I pull it off the trailer onto the beach and can rig it complete in 10 min. If I don't B.S. with friends.

                Don in St. Louis



                Sent from my Samsung Transform™ Ultra



                Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:



                Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?

                Scot



                --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:



                From: Kayle <katemerart@...>

                Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts

                To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com

                Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM



                 



                Scot-



                I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.



                I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.



                When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html



                So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.



                Hope this helps,



                Steve



                --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@...> wrote:



                >



                > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.



                >



                > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12



                >



                > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?



                >



                > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?



                >



                > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?



                >



                > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.



                >



                > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?



                >



                > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.



                >



                > Thanks



                > Scot



                > Great Lakes Bay Region



                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Scot Spencer
                What holds the two parts of the mast together?  I have a Minisail that was my brothers and he went over in Lake Michigan many years ago, the whole rig came
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 27, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  What holds the two parts of the mast together?  I have a Minisail that was my brothers and he went over in Lake Michigan many years ago, the whole rig came off, the two parts of the mast separated and one section still resides at the bottom of Lake Michigan.  The upper section of the mast is now bolted to the replacement section making one long mast and a hassle to transport.
                  ScotGreat Lakes Bay Region

                  --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:

                  From: Kayle <katemerart@...>
                  Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
                  To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 1:55 AM
















                   









                  It is very easy to rig. The mast is in two parts and the sails has a sleeve that slides down over the mast. I then step the you go. I can easily rig myself in less than 10 minutes. I used to sail a sunfish, and it is very similar in how easy it is to rig. I boat this boat to replace an Omega 13 to have something that was smaller and easier to rig quickly and have been very pleased. Not to say the Omega was that difficult, but this is even easier. Hope that helps.



                  Steve



                  --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?

                  > Scot

                  >

                  > --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > From: Kayle <katemerart@...>

                  > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts

                  > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com

                  > Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

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                  >

                  >

                  >  

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

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                  >

                  > Scot-

                  >

                  > I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Hope this helps,

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Steve

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@> wrote:

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Thanks

                  >

                  > > Scot

                  >

                  > > Great Lakes Bay Region

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

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                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >



























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Handydonlegend
                  After installing the 2 piece mast and sail you must use a cunningham or downhaul. That will hold everything in place during a capsize/turtle. Don in St. Louis
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 28, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    After installing the 2 piece mast and sail you must use a cunningham or downhaul. That will hold everything in place during a capsize/turtle.
                    Don in St. Louis


                    Sent from my Samsung Transform™ Ultra

                    Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:

                    What holds the two parts of the mast together?  I have a Minisail that was my brothers and he went over in Lake Michigan many years ago, the whole rig came off, the two parts of the mast separated and one section still resides at the bottom of Lake Michigan.  The upper section of the mast is now bolted to the replacement section making one long mast and a hassle to transport.
                    ScotGreat Lakes Bay Region

                    --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:

                    From: Kayle <katemerart@...>
                    Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
                    To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 1:55 AM

                     

                    It is very easy to rig. The mast is in two parts and the sails has a sleeve that slides down over the mast. I then step the you go. I can easily rig myself in less than 10 minutes. I used to sail a sunfish, and it is very similar in how easy it is to rig. I boat this boat to replace an Omega 13 to have something that was smaller and easier to rig quickly and have been very pleased. Not to say the Omega was that difficult, but this is even easier. Hope that helps.

                    Steve

                    --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:

                    >

                    > Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?

                    > Scot

                    >

                    > --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:

                    >

                    > From: Kayle <katemerart@...>

                    > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts

                    > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com

                    > Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >  

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Scot-

                    >

                    > I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Hope this helps,

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Steve

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@> wrote:

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    > > Thanks

                    >

                    > > Scot

                    >

                    > > Great Lakes Bay Region

                    >

                    > >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

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                    >

                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kayle
                    There is a fitting that is riveted to the upper spar that fits into the lower spar. But, there is nothing that actually attaches the two pieces together. But,
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 28, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      There is a fitting that is riveted to the upper spar that fits into the
                      lower spar. But, there is nothing that actually attaches the two pieces
                      together.


                      But, at the bottom of the sail there is a line (connected about where
                      the boom and mast meet). When you rig the boat, you run that line down
                      the mast from the boom and run it through the fastener on the hull. So,
                      basically on these older models there is one small line that keeps the
                      mast in place if you capsize.
                      The newer models are setup a bit differently with cleats on the hull on
                      both sides of the mast.

                      --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > What holds the two parts of the mast together? Â I have a Minisail
                      that was my brothers and he went over in Lake Michigan many years ago,
                      the whole rig came off, the two parts of the mast separated and one
                      section still resides at the bottom of Lake Michigan. Â The upper
                      section of the mast is now bolted to the replacement section making one
                      long mast and a hassle to transport.
                      > ScotGreat Lakes Bay Region
                      >
                      > --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Kayle katemerart@... wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Kayle katemerart@...
                      > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
                      > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 1:55 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Â
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > It is very easy to rig. The mast is in two parts and the sails
                      has a sleeve that slides down over the mast. I then step the you go. I
                      can easily rig myself in less than 10 minutes. I used to sail a sunfish,
                      and it is very similar in how easy it is to rig. I boat this boat to
                      replace an Omega 13 to have something that was smaller and easier to rig
                      quickly and have been very pleased. Not to say the Omega was that
                      difficult, but this is even easier. Hope that helps.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer gliccman@ wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to
                      rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?
                      >
                      > > Scot
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle katemerart@ wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > From: Kayle katemerart@
                      >
                      > > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
                      >
                      > > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > > Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > ÂÂ
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Scot-
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for
                      several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so
                      who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of
                      freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the
                      small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small
                      to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check
                      the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in
                      great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the
                      mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal
                      water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard
                      case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after
                      25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did
                      not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the
                      construction of the boat.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I
                      had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found
                      the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts
                      from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I
                      am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup
                      and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Hope this helps,
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Steve
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking
                      for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but
                      with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach
                      launch) I was not able to use it much.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me
                      decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett
                      1400, Force 5 and Holder 12
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the
                      Holder 12 over the other two boats?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so
                      parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of
                      this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for
                      rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could
                      build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this
                      info?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need
                      replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over
                      the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection
                      ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas,
                      weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water
                      gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand
                      than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass
                      tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered
                      to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a
                      standard boat?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share,
                      will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Thanks
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Scot
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Great Lakes Bay Region
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Scot Spencer
                      Got it. Scot Great Lakes Bay Region ... From: Handydonlegend Subject: Re: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts To: Scot
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 28, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Got it.

                        Scot
                        Great Lakes Bay Region

                        --- On Tue, 8/28/12, Handydonlegend <HandyDonLegend@...> wrote:

                        From: Handydonlegend <HandyDonLegend@...>
                        Subject: Re: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
                        To: "Scot Spencer" <gliccman@...>, Holder12@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2012, 12:28 PM
















                         









                        After installing the 2 piece mast and sail you must use a cunningham or downhaul. That will hold everything in place during a capsize/turtle.

                        Don in St. Louis



                        Sent from my Samsung Transform™ Ultra



                        Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:



                        What holds the two parts of the mast together?  I have a Minisail that was my brothers and he went over in Lake Michigan many years ago, the whole rig came off, the two parts of the mast separated and one section still resides at the bottom of Lake Michigan.  The upper section of the mast is now bolted to the replacement section making one long mast and a hassle to transport.

                        ScotGreat Lakes Bay Region



                        --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:



                        From: Kayle <katemerart@...>

                        Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts

                        To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com

                        Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 1:55 AM



                         



                        It is very easy to rig. The mast is in two parts and the sails has a sleeve that slides down over the mast. I then step the you go. I can easily rig myself in less than 10 minutes. I used to sail a sunfish, and it is very similar in how easy it is to rig. I boat this boat to replace an Omega 13 to have something that was smaller and easier to rig quickly and have been very pleased. Not to say the Omega was that difficult, but this is even easier. Hope that helps.



                        Steve



                        --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:



                        >



                        > Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?



                        > Scot



                        >



                        > --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:



                        >



                        > From: Kayle <katemerart@...>



                        > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts



                        > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com



                        > Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >  



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        > Scot-



                        >



                        > I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        > I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after 25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the construction of the boat.



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        > When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        > So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        > Hope this helps,



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        > Steve



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@> wrote:



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach launch) I was not able to use it much.



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett 1400, Force 5 and Holder 12



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the Holder 12 over the other two boats?



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this info?



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas, weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a standard boat?



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share, will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        > > Thanks



                        >



                        > > Scot



                        >



                        > > Great Lakes Bay Region



                        >



                        > >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



                        >



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                        >



                        >



                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Scot Spencer
                        Thanks, Scot Great Lakes Bay Region ... From: Kayle Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts To:
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 28, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks,

                          Scot
                          Great Lakes Bay Region

                          --- On Tue, 8/28/12, Kayle <katemerart@...> wrote:

                          From: Kayle <katemerart@...>
                          Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts
                          To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2012, 1:34 PM
















                           









                          There is a fitting that is riveted to the upper spar that fits into the

                          lower spar. But, there is nothing that actually attaches the two pieces

                          together.



                          But, at the bottom of the sail there is a line (connected about where

                          the boom and mast meet). When you rig the boat, you run that line down

                          the mast from the boom and run it through the fastener on the hull. So,

                          basically on these older models there is one small line that keeps the

                          mast in place if you capsize.

                          The newer models are setup a bit differently with cleats on the hull on

                          both sides of the mast.



                          --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer <gliccman@...> wrote:

                          >

                          > What holds the two parts of the mast together? Â I have a Minisail

                          that was my brothers and he went over in Lake Michigan many years ago,

                          the whole rig came off, the two parts of the mast separated and one

                          section still resides at the bottom of Lake Michigan. Â The upper

                          section of the mast is now bolted to the replacement section making one

                          long mast and a hassle to transport.

                          > ScotGreat Lakes Bay Region

                          >

                          > --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Kayle katemerart@... wrote:

                          >

                          > From: Kayle katemerart@...

                          > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts

                          > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com

                          > Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 1:55 AM

                          >

                          >

                          >

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                          > It is very easy to rig. The mast is in two parts and the sails

                          has a sleeve that slides down over the mast. I then step the you go. I

                          can easily rig myself in less than 10 minutes. I used to sail a sunfish,

                          and it is very similar in how easy it is to rig. I boat this boat to

                          replace an Omega 13 to have something that was smaller and easier to rig

                          quickly and have been very pleased. Not to say the Omega was that

                          difficult, but this is even easier. Hope that helps.

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Steve

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, Scot Spencer gliccman@ wrote:

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > Thanks for the info.  How long does it take you to

                          rig...Cunningham, outhaul, boomvang etc.?

                          >

                          > > Scot

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > --- On Sat, 8/25/12, Kayle katemerart@ wrote:

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > From: Kayle katemerart@

                          >

                          > > Subject: [Holder12] Re: Questions about Holder 12 & parts

                          >

                          > > To: Holder12@yahoogroups.com

                          >

                          > > Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 2:09 PM

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                          > > Scot-

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > I recently purchase an '85 Holder that had been sitting in a lot for

                          several years. When I bought it the entire hull was filed with water, so

                          who knows how long it had been in there - probably through a lot of

                          freezing and thawing. But, with that, once I removed the water (the

                          small drain hole at the back of stern is sort of a joke, it is too small

                          to really drain effectively), I drilled out an inspection port to check

                          the foam and make sure I got all the water out. The foam is still in

                          great shape. The water has been coming in through a hole where the

                          mainsheet block attaches, which fixed.

                          >

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                          >

                          > > I have sailed it several times since then, and there is very minimal

                          water that comes into the boat - I am guessing through the centerboard

                          case - there are a few small nicks I plan to fill. So, basically, after

                          25+ years, the boat is still in great shape - and the previous owner did

                          not take great care with it, so this is more a testament to the

                          construction of the boat.

                          >

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                          >

                          > > When I bought the boat, it did not come with a mast or boom, so I

                          had to find all of the parts to recreate. Through this research, I found

                          the Laser has many similar parts. So, I recreated with all Laser parts

                          from here: http://www.intensitysails.com/prspandfifor.html

                          >

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                          > > So, I cannot compare with the other boats you are looking at, but I

                          am VERY happy with this boat. It is a lot of fun to sail, easy to setup

                          and light enough to maneuver on the trailer.

                          >

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                          > > Hope this helps,

                          >

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                          >

                          > > Steve

                          >

                          > >

                          >

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                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > --- In Holder12@yahoogroups.com, "gliccman" <gliccman@> wrote:

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > I recently sold my Mutineer (which I dearly loved) and am looking

                          for something smaller. Basically the Mutt was awesome (and fast)but

                          with the stayed mast and having to trailer launch (vs. a dolly/beach

                          launch) I was not able to use it much.

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > I am wondering if you folks could answer some questions to help me

                          decide on a new (to me) boat. I am considering 3 boat options: Barnett

                          1400, Force 5 and Holder 12

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > 1) What would you folks say is the main selling point of the

                          Holder 12 over the other two boats?

                          >

                          > >

                          >

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                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > 2) Both the Barnett 1400 and Force 5 are still in production so

                          parts are just a phone call away. I have looked at the files section of

                          this group and have not seen any sort of drawings with dimensions for

                          rudder, rudderhead, daggerboard or any other parts that someone could

                          build at home, is there some other web site you folks use to get this

                          info?

                          >

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                          > >

                          >

                          > > > 3) What are the parts on a Holder 12 that are most likely to need

                          replacing & how do you folks go about finding them?

                          >

                          > >

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                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > 4) What kind of design or construction problems have surfaced over

                          the years that need to be addressed on most Holder 12's? Ex. inspection

                          ports that leak or fall out, soft spots in the glass in certain areas,

                          weak boom, brittle gudgeons, areas of bad gelcoat, places where water

                          gets into the hull, lose or waterlogged flotation foam etc. etc. etc.

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > 5) Are there certain models of Holder 12's that are more in demand

                          than others? Ex. should I be looking for a boat with a fiberglass

                          tipped mast or all aluminum? What year(s) of production are considered

                          to be the best and why? How important is a "special edition" boat vs. a

                          standard boat?

                          >

                          > >

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                          > > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > Your responses to these questions,or any other info you can share,

                          will be taken to heart and greatly appreciated.

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > Thanks

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > Scot

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > > Great Lakes Bay Region

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