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Armor

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  • richmondman3001
    What sheet has the stats for armor listed on it?
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 1, 2008
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      What sheet has the stats for armor listed on it?
    • Max Schultz
      ... The stats for all the armor are hidden on the Armor tab. Select a cell in the A column and press the right arrow key until you see the column letter jump.
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1, 2008
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        --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:

        > What sheet has the stats for armor listed on it?
        >
        >
        The stats for all the armor are hidden on the Armor
        tab. Select a cell in the A column and press the right
        arrow key until you see the column letter jump. That's
        the division of columns where the info is hidden.
        Select across this boundary and unhide columns. You
        will see all the info then.

        Also, less frequently, information is in hidden rows
        as well as hidden columns.

        Hope that helped,

        Max Schultz
        HeroForge™ 3.5 Dev Team



        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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      • Christopher Mathieu
        Yeah, isn t that a pretty messy way to do it? Chalk it up to my original design methods, such as they were.
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1, 2008
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          Yeah, isn’t that a pretty messy way to do it? Chalk it up to my original design methods, such as they were.

           

          To donate to the HeroForge project click here!

           

          Christopher Mathieu

          HeroForge™ Software, LLC

          Operations Manager

          Lead Programmer

           

          Christopher.Mathieu@...

           

          From: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Max Schultz
          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:44 AM
          To: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Hero_Forge] Armor

           


          --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:

          > What sheet has the stats for armor listed on it?
          >
          >
          The stats for all the armor are hidden on the Armor
          tab. Select a cell in the A column and press the right
          arrow key until you see the column letter jump. That's
          the division of columns where the info is hidden.
          Select across this boundary and unhide columns. You
          will see all the info then.

          Also, less frequently, information is in hidden rows
          as well as hidden columns.

          Hope that helped,

          Max Schultz
          HeroForge™ 3.5 Dev Team

          __________________________________________________________
          You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
          http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

        • richmondman3001
          Don t be too hard on yourself, it works which is more then I can say for a lot of people who did Excel stuff that DOESN T and that was their job. Is that the
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 1, 2008
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            Don't be too hard on yourself, it works which is more then I can say
            for a lot of people who did Excel stuff that DOESN'T and that was
            their job. Is that the reason that merging cells will cause a seeming
            random armor name to show?






            --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Mathieu"
            <LonePaladin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yeah, isn't that a pretty messy way to do it? Chalk it up to my original
            > design methods, such as they were.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            <https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=donations%40h
            >
            eroforgesoftware%2ecom&item_name=HeroForge%20Software&no_shipping=0&no_note=
            > 1&tax=0¤cy_code=USD&lc=US&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8> To
            > donate to the HeroForge project click here!
            >
            >
            >
            > Christopher Mathieu
            >
            > HeroForgeT Software, LLC
            >
            > Operations Manager
            >
            > Lead Programmer
            >
            >
            >
            > <mailto:Christopher.Mathieu@...>
            > Christopher.Mathieu@...
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Max Schultz
            > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:44 AM
            > To: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Hero_Forge] Armor
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...
            > <mailto:richmondman3001%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
            >
            > > What sheet has the stats for armor listed on it?
            > >
            > >
            > The stats for all the armor are hidden on the Armor
            > tab. Select a cell in the A column and press the right
            > arrow key until you see the column letter jump. That's
            > the division of columns where the info is hidden.
            > Select across this boundary and unhide columns. You
            > will see all the info then.
            >
            > Also, less frequently, information is in hidden rows
            > as well as hidden columns.
            >
            > Hope that helped,
            >
            > Max Schultz
            > HeroForgeT 3.5 Dev Team
            >
            > __________________________________________________________
            > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
            > Total Access, No Cost.
            > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
            >
          • Max Schultz
            Could be more specific about what you did and what happened? ...
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 1, 2008
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              Could be more specific about what you did and what
              happened?
              --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:

              > Don't be too hard on yourself, it works which is
              > more then I can say
              > for a lot of people who did Excel stuff that DOESN'T
              > and that was
              > their job. Is that the reason that merging cells
              > will cause a seeming
              > random armor name to show?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher
              > Mathieu"
              > <LonePaladin@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Yeah, isn't that a pretty messy way to do it?
              > Chalk it up to my original
              > > design methods, such as they were.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              <https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=donations%40h
              > >
              >
              eroforgesoftware%2ecom&item_name=HeroForge%20Software&no_shipping=0&no_note=
              > >
              >
              1&tax=0¤cy_code=USD&lc=US&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8>
              > To
              > > donate to the HeroForge project click here!
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Christopher Mathieu
              > >
              > > HeroForgeT Software, LLC
              > >
              > > Operations Manager
              > >
              > > Lead Programmer
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > <mailto:Christopher.Mathieu@...>
              > > Christopher.Mathieu@...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > From: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com] On
              > > Behalf Of Max Schultz
              > > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:44 AM
              > > To: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [Hero_Forge] Armor
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...
              > > <mailto:richmondman3001%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
              > >
              > > > What sheet has the stats for armor listed on it?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > The stats for all the armor are hidden on the
              > Armor
              > > tab. Select a cell in the A column and press the
              > right
              > > arrow key until you see the column letter jump.
              > That's
              > > the division of columns where the info is hidden.
              > > Select across this boundary and unhide columns.
              > You
              > > will see all the info then.
              > >
              > > Also, less frequently, information is in hidden
              > rows
              > > as well as hidden columns.
              > >
              > > Hope that helped,
              > >
              > > Max Schultz
              > > HeroForgeT 3.5 Dev Team
              > >
              > >
              >
              __________________________________________________________
              > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you
              > one month of Blockbuster
              > > Total Access, No Cost.
              > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
              > >
              >
              >
              >



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
              http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
            • richmondman3001
              Other then Spellsword, Bard, Warmage, & Fighters who take the option out of Complete Arcane what classes/PRC can (sometimes) ignore ASF?
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 1, 2008
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                Other then Spellsword, Bard, Warmage, & Fighters who take the option
                out of Complete Arcane what classes/PRC can (sometimes) ignore ASF?
              • Doug Emes
                ... Warlocks ignore ASF from Light armor without taking the feat Battle Caster, which would allow one to then use medium armor without the ASF. But they are
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 2, 2008
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                  --- "richmondman3001" <richmondman3001@...> wrote:
                  > Other then Spellsword, Bard, Warmage, & Fighters who take the option
                  > out of Complete Arcane what classes/PRC can (sometimes) ignore ASF?

                  Warlocks ignore ASF from Light armor without taking the feat Battle
                  Caster, which would allow one to then use medium armor without the ASF.
                  But they are not proficient with shields - so use a buckler, no ASF on it.

                  I am sure there are probably others, but I don't have time today to look,
                  Sorry =(
                • Telas
                  I m sure y all know, but it bears repeating, that none of this applies to spells from classes other than those that grant the specific ability to ignore ASF.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 2, 2008
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                    I'm sure y'all know, but it bears repeating, that none of this applies to spells from classes other than those that grant the specific ability to ignore ASF.  So a Full Plate-wearing 10th level Warmage-5th level Wizard with the Battle Caster feat will not ignore ASF when he casts Shield. 

                    Telas



                    On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Doug Emes <kyojin@...> wrote:
                    --- "richmondman3001" <richmondman3001@...> wrote:
                    > Other then Spellsword, Bard, Warmage, & Fighters who take the option
                    > out of Complete Arcane what classes/PRC can (sometimes) ignore ASF?

                    Warlocks ignore ASF from Light armor without taking the feat Battle
                    Caster, which would allow one to then use medium armor without the ASF.
                    But they are not proficient with shields - so use a buckler, no ASF on it.

                    I am sure there are probably others, but I don't have time today to look,
                    Sorry =(


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                  • richmondman3001
                    ... applies to ... I think we re all aware of that but good point.
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 3, 2008
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                      --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Telas <TelasTX@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm sure y'all know, but it bears repeating, that none of this
                      applies to
                      > spells from classes other than those that grant the specific ability to
                      > ignore ASF. So a Full Plate-wearing 10th level Warmage-5th level Wizard
                      > with the Battle Caster feat will not ignore ASF when he casts Shield.
                      >
                      > Telas

                      I think we're all aware of that but good point.
                    • Max Schultz
                      ... The debate had been whether the ASF was a conditional or a static value. In the end, it s a situation where there are more exceptions than constants, so it
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 3, 2008
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                        --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:

                        > --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Telas
                        > <TelasTX@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I'm sure y'all know, but it bears repeating, that
                        > none of this
                        > applies to
                        > > spells from classes other than those that grant
                        > the specific ability to
                        > > ignore ASF. So a Full Plate-wearing 10th level
                        > Warmage-5th level Wizard
                        > > with the Battle Caster feat will not ignore ASF
                        > when he casts Shield.
                        > >
                        > > Telas
                        >
                        > I think we're all aware of that but good point.
                        >
                        >

                        The debate had been whether the ASF was a conditional
                        or a static value. In the end, it's a situation where
                        there are more exceptions than constants, so it was
                        left up to the user.


                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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                      • richmondman3001
                        I m a little confused as to the debate. If you wear armor/shield you have ASF, some classes lower that number but even if you have ASF of zero it s still
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
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                          I'm a little confused as to the debate. If you wear armor/shield you
                          have ASF, some classes lower that number but even if you have ASF of
                          zero it's still there.

                          --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Max Schultz <rtrnofdmax@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Telas
                          > > <TelasTX@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I'm sure y'all know, but it bears repeating, that
                          > > none of this
                          > > applies to
                          > > > spells from classes other than those that grant
                          > > the specific ability to
                          > > > ignore ASF. So a Full Plate-wearing 10th level
                          > > Warmage-5th level Wizard
                          > > > with the Battle Caster feat will not ignore ASF
                          > > when he casts Shield.
                          > > >
                          > > > Telas
                          > >
                          > > I think we're all aware of that but good point.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > The debate had been whether the ASF was a conditional
                          > or a static value. In the end, it's a situation where
                          > there are more exceptions than constants, so it was
                          > left up to the user.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of
                          Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
                          > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
                          >
                        • Max Schultz
                          I am still willing to see if you come up with an elegant solution that removes the conditionality of the ASF reductions for every race/class/PrC that offers
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
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                            I am still willing to see if you come up with an
                            elegant solution that removes the conditionality of
                            the ASF reductions for every race/class/PrC that
                            offers some level of reduction.
                            --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:

                            > I'm a little confused as to the debate. If you wear
                            > armor/shield you
                            > have ASF, some classes lower that number but even if
                            > you have ASF of
                            > zero it's still there.
                            >
                            > --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Max Schultz
                            > <rtrnofdmax@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Telas
                            > > > <TelasTX@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I'm sure y'all know, but it bears repeating,
                            > that
                            > > > none of this
                            > > > applies to
                            > > > > spells from classes other than those that
                            > grant
                            > > > the specific ability to
                            > > > > ignore ASF. So a Full Plate-wearing 10th
                            > level
                            > > > Warmage-5th level Wizard
                            > > > > with the Battle Caster feat will not ignore
                            > ASF
                            > > > when he casts Shield.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Telas
                            > > >
                            > > > I think we're all aware of that but good point.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > The debate had been whether the ASF was a
                            > conditional
                            > > or a static value. In the end, it's a situation
                            > where
                            > > there are more exceptions than constants, so it
                            > was
                            > > left up to the user.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you
                            > one month of
                            > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
                            > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
                            http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
                          • Telas
                            I m not sure what confuses you, so here s what I ve seen. If it helps, I was working with HF when they added Complete Arcane to it... Certain classes give the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
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                              I'm not sure what confuses you, so here's what I've seen.  If it helps, I was working with HF when they added Complete Arcane to it... 

                              Certain classes give the ability to ignore ASF from specific types of armor (light, medium, or heavy armor) for that class's spells.  A certain feat 'bumps' the ability to ignore ASF to the next 'weight' of armor.  There may be other modifiers or cases (class, race, feat, etc), but let's use Warmage as an example. 

                              A Warmage wearing a Chain Shirt and a Light Steel Shield has an ASF of 25%, just like anyone else does.  However, when he casts Warmage spells, he ignores the chance of spell failure, since it's light armor and shield.  He does not see a reduction in ASF, but he ignores it.  In other words, your statement, "some classes lower that number (ASF)" is technically incorrect. 

                              Here's why:  If our Warmage decides to multi-class with Wizard (maybe he's gotta have that Shield spell), he does not ignore the chance of spell failure when he casts Wizard spells.  See the text for the Armored Mage ability in the Warmage (Complete Arcane, p.12).

                              Because of the multi-class situation, the decision was made that the Armored Mage ability (and similar abilities) were conditional on the spell in question being from that class.  In other words, it's tracked and applied by the player, not by the sheet. 

                              An elegant solution might be to check to see if the race/class/feat combination allowed one to ignore ASF from the specified armor type, then to asterisk, enclose in parenthesis, or otherwise modify the ASF number to show that it doesn't apply to the specific class's spells. 

                              Finally, I'm not sure if there are abilities or feats out there that allow a character to reduce ASF.  In defense of my ignorance, I don't play mages very often, and I tend to limit sourcebooks when I GM. 

                              Telas



                              On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:18 AM, richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:
                              I'm a little confused as to the debate.  If you wear armor/shield you
                              have ASF, some classes lower that number but even if you have ASF of
                              zero it's still there.

                              --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Max Schultz <rtrnofdmax@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Telas
                              > > <TelasTX@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm sure y'all know, but it bears repeating, that
                              > > none of this
                              > > applies to
                              > > > spells from classes other than those that grant
                              > > the specific ability to
                              > > > ignore ASF.  So a Full Plate-wearing 10th level
                              > > Warmage-5th level Wizard
                              > > > with the Battle Caster feat will not ignore ASF
                              > > when he casts Shield.
                              > > >
                              > > > Telas
                              > >
                              > > I think we're all aware of that but good point.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > The debate had been whether the ASF was a conditional
                              > or a static value. In the end, it's a situation where
                              > there are more exceptions than constants, so it was
                              > left up to the user.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Christopher Mathieu
                              The Spellsword (Complete Warrior 79) has this ability. At 1st level, they reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor they wear by 10%; this increases
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
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                                The Spellsword (Complete Warrior 79) has this ability. At 1st level, they reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor they wear by 10%; this increases by 5% every odd level.

                                 

                                To donate to the HeroForge project click here!

                                 

                                Christopher Mathieu

                                HeroForge™ Software, LLC

                                Operations Manager

                                Lead Programmer

                                 

                                Christopher.Mathieu@...

                                 

                                From: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Telas
                                Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:51 PM
                                To: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor

                                 

                                I'm not sure what confuses you, so here's what I've seen.  If it helps, I was working with HF when they added Complete Arcane to it... 

                                Certain classes give the ability to ignore ASF from specific types of armor (light, medium, or heavy armor) for that class's spells.  A certain feat 'bumps' the ability to ignore ASF to the next 'weight' of armor.  There may be other modifiers or cases (class, race, feat, etc), but let's use Warmage as an example. 

                                A Warmage wearing a Chain Shirt and a Light Steel Shield has an ASF of 25%, just like anyone else does.  However, when he casts Warmage spells, he ignores the chance of spell failure, since it's light armor and shield.  He does not see a reduction in ASF, but he ignores it.  In other words, your statement, "some classes lower that number (ASF)" is technically incorrect. 

                                Here's why:  If our Warmage decides to multi-class with Wizard (maybe he's gotta have that Shield spell), he does not ignore the chance of spell failure when he casts Wizard spells.  See the text for the Armored Mage ability in the Warmage (Complete Arcane, p.12).

                                Because of the multi-class situation, the decision was made that the Armored Mage ability (and similar abilities) were conditional on the spell in question being from that class.  In other words, it's tracked and applied by the player, not by the sheet. 

                                An elegant solution might be to check to see if the race/class/feat combination allowed one to ignore ASF from the specified armor type, then to asterisk, enclose in parenthesis, or otherwise modify the ASF number to show that it doesn't apply to the specific class's spells. 

                                Finally, I'm not sure if there are abilities or feats out there that allow a character to reduce ASF.  In defense of my ignorance, I don't play mages very often, and I tend to limit sourcebooks when I GM. 

                                Telas


                                On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:18 AM, richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:

                                I'm a little confused as to the debate.  If you wear armor/shield you
                                have ASF, some classes lower that number but even if you have ASF of
                                zero it's still there.

                                --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Max Schultz <rtrnofdmax@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > --- richmondman3001 <richmondman3001@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com,

                                Telas
                                > > <TelasTX@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm sure y'all know, but it bears repeating, that
                                > > none of this
                                > > applies to
                                > > > spells from classes other than those that grant
                                > > the specific ability to
                                > > > ignore ASF.  So a Full Plate-wearing 10th level
                                > > Warmage-5th level Wizard
                                > > > with the Battle Caster feat will not ignore ASF
                                > > when he casts Shield.
                                > > >
                                > > > Telas
                                > >
                                > > I think we're all aware of that but good point.
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > The debate had been whether the ASF was a conditional
                                > or a static value. In the end, it's a situation where
                                > there are more exceptions than constants, so it was
                                > left up to the user.
                                >
                                >
                                >

                              • Jason Davis
                                Also the Twilight ability can be added to armor and lower it by 10%. Jed
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
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                                  Also the Twilight ability can be added to armor and lower it by 10%.

                                  Jed

                                  Christopher Mathieu wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The Spellsword (/Complete Warrior /79) has this ability. At 1st level,
                                  > they reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor they wear by
                                  > 10%; this increases by 5% every odd level.
                                  >
                                  > *To donate to the HeroForge project click here!
                                  > <https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=donations%40heroforgesoftware%2ecom&item_name=HeroForge%20Software&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0¤cy_code=USD&lc=US&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8>*
                                  >
                                  > Christopher Mathieu
                                  >
                                  > HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                  >
                                  > Operations Manager
                                  >
                                  > Lead Programmer
                                  >
                                  > Christopher.Mathieu@...
                                  > <mailto:Christopher.Mathieu@...>
                                  >
                                  > *From:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com]
                                  > *On Behalf Of *Telas
                                  > *Sent:* Friday, April 04, 2008 1:51 PM
                                  > *To:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                  > *Subject:* Re: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure what confuses you, so here's what I've seen. If it helps,
                                  > I was working with HF when they added Complete Arcane to it...
                                  >
                                  > Certain classes give the ability to /ignore /ASF from specific types
                                  > of armor (light, medium, or heavy armor) for that class's spells. A
                                  > certain feat 'bumps' the ability to ignore ASF to the next 'weight' of
                                  > armor. There may be other modifiers or cases (class, race, feat, etc),
                                  > but let's use Warmage as an example.
                                  >
                                  > A Warmage wearing a Chain Shirt and a Light Steel Shield has an ASF of
                                  > 25%, just like anyone else does. However, /when he casts Warmage
                                  > spells/, he ignores the chance of spell failure, since it's light
                                  > armor and shield. He does not see a reduction in ASF, but he ignores
                                  > it. In other words, your statement, /"some classes lower that number
                                  > (ASF)"/ is technically incorrect.
                                  >
                                  > Here's why: If our Warmage decides to multi-class with Wizard (maybe
                                  > he's gotta have that Shield spell), he does not ignore the chance of
                                  > spell failure when he casts Wizard spells. See the text for the
                                  > Armored Mage ability in the Warmage (Complete Arcane, p.12).
                                  >
                                  > Because of the multi-class situation, the decision was made that the
                                  > Armored Mage ability (and similar abilities) were /conditional /on the
                                  > spell in question being from that class. In other words, /it's tracked
                                  > and applied by the player/, not by the sheet.
                                  >
                                  > An elegant solution might be to check to see if the race/class/feat
                                  > combination allowed one to ignore ASF from the specified armor type,
                                  > then to asterisk, enclose in parenthesis, or otherwise modify the ASF
                                  > number to show that it doesn't apply to the specific class's spells.
                                  >
                                  > Finally, I'm not sure if there are abilities or feats out there that
                                  > allow a character to /reduce /ASF. In defense of my ignorance, I don't
                                  > play mages very often, and I tend to limit sourcebooks when I GM.
                                  >
                                  > Telas
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Telas
                                  Thanks. I ll retract my statement about some classes lower that number being incorrect. Some classes do indeed lower that number, or at least one class and
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Thanks.  I'll retract my statement about "some classes lower that number" being incorrect.  Some classes do indeed lower that number, or at least one class and one armor.  In re-reading the thread, I think the confusion was about the conditional nature of it. 

                                    Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled confusion...  ;-)

                                    Telas



                                    On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Jason Davis <ibhappi@...> wrote:
                                    Also the Twilight ability can be added to armor and lower it by 10%.

                                    Jed

                                    Christopher Mathieu wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The Spellsword (/Complete Warrior /79) has this ability. At 1st level,
                                    > they reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor they wear by
                                    > 10%; this increases by 5% every odd level.
                                    >
                                    > *To donate to the HeroForge project click here!
                                    > <https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=donations%40heroforgesoftware%2ecom&item_name=HeroForge%20Software&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=USD&lc=US&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8>*
                                    >
                                    > Christopher Mathieu
                                    >
                                    > HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                    >
                                    > Operations Manager
                                    >
                                    > Lead Programmer
                                    >
                                    > Christopher.Mathieu@...
                                    > <mailto:Christopher.Mathieu@...>
                                    >
                                    > *From:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com]
                                    > *On Behalf Of *Telas
                                    > *Sent:* Friday, April 04, 2008 1:51 PM
                                    > *To:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                    > *Subject:* Re: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor
                                    >
                                    > I'm not sure what confuses you, so here's what I've seen. If it helps,
                                    > I was working with HF when they added Complete Arcane to it...
                                    >
                                    > Certain classes give the ability to /ignore /ASF from specific types
                                    > of armor (light, medium, or heavy armor) for that class's spells. A
                                    > certain feat 'bumps' the ability to ignore ASF to the next 'weight' of
                                    > armor. There may be other modifiers or cases (class, race, feat, etc),
                                    > but let's use Warmage as an example.
                                    >
                                    > A Warmage wearing a Chain Shirt and a Light Steel Shield has an ASF of
                                    > 25%, just like anyone else does. However, /when he casts Warmage
                                    > spells/, he ignores the chance of spell failure, since it's light
                                    > armor and shield. He does not see a reduction in ASF, but he ignores
                                    > it. In other words, your statement, /"some classes lower that number
                                    > (ASF)"/ is technically incorrect.
                                    >
                                    > Here's why: If our Warmage decides to multi-class with Wizard (maybe
                                    > he's gotta have that Shield spell), he does not ignore the chance of
                                    > spell failure when he casts Wizard spells. See the text for the
                                    > Armored Mage ability in the Warmage (Complete Arcane, p.12).
                                    >
                                    > Because of the multi-class situation, the decision was made that the
                                    > Armored Mage ability (and similar abilities) were /conditional /on the
                                    > spell in question being from that class. In other words, /it's tracked
                                    > and applied by the player/, not by the sheet.
                                    >
                                    > An elegant solution might be to check to see if the race/class/feat
                                    > combination allowed one to ignore ASF from the specified armor type,
                                    > then to asterisk, enclose in parenthesis, or otherwise modify the ASF
                                    > number to show that it doesn't apply to the specific class's spells.
                                    >
                                    > Finally, I'm not sure if there are abilities or feats out there that
                                    > allow a character to /reduce /ASF. In defense of my ignorance, I don't
                                    > play mages very often, and I tend to limit sourcebooks when I GM.
                                    >
                                    > Telas
                                    >
                                    >


                                    ------------------------------------

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                                    --
                                    An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
                                    - G.K. Chesterton
                                  • Robert Daneri
                                    The key word being conditional . HF was not intended to track anything conditional . Only things that always work in all situations are tracked by the sheet.
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      The key word being “conditional”. HF was not intended to track anything “conditional”. Only things that always work in all situations are tracked by the sheet. The rest has to be up to the player.

                                       

                                      To donate to the HeroForge project click here!

                                      Robert Daneri
                                      HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                      Account & Marketing Manager
                                      Lead Interface Programmer
                                      robert.daneri@...

                                       

                                      From: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Telas
                                      Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:07 PM
                                      To: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor

                                       

                                      Thanks.  I'll retract my statement about "some classes lower that number" being incorrect.  Some classes do indeed lower that number, or at least one class and one armor.  In re-reading the thread, I think the confusion was about the conditional nature of it. 

                                      Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled confusion...  ;-)

                                      Telas


                                      On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Jason Davis <ibhappi@...> wrote:

                                      Also the Twilight ability can be added to armor and lower it by 10%.

                                      Jed


                                      Christopher Mathieu wrote:

                                      >
                                      > The Spellsword (/Complete Warrior /79) has this ability. At 1st level,
                                      > they reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor they wear by
                                      > 10%; this increases by 5% every odd level.
                                      >
                                      > *To donate to the HeroForge project click here!

                                      > <

                                      href="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=donations%40heroforgesoftware%2ecom&item_name=HeroForge%20Software&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=USD&lc=US&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8" target="_blank">https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=donations%40heroforgesoftware%2ecom&item_name=HeroForge%20Software&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=USD&lc=US&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8>*

                                      >
                                      > Christopher Mathieu
                                      >
                                      > HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                      >
                                      > Operations Manager
                                      >
                                      > Lead Programmer
                                      >
                                      > Christopher.Mathieu@...

                                      > <mailto:

                                      href="mailto:Christopher.Mathieu@...">Christopher.Mathieu@...>

                                      >
                                      > *From:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com

                                      [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com]
                                      > *On Behalf Of *Telas
                                      > *Sent:* Friday, April 04, 2008 1:51 PM
                                      > *To:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                      > *Subject:* Re: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor
                                      >
                                      > I'm not sure what confuses you, so here's what I've seen. If it helps,
                                      > I was working with HF when they added Complete Arcane to it...
                                      >
                                      > Certain classes give the ability to /ignore /ASF from specific types
                                      > of armor (light, medium, or heavy armor) for that class's spells. A
                                      > certain feat 'bumps' the ability to ignore ASF to the next 'weight' of
                                      > armor. There may be other modifiers or cases (class, race, feat, etc),
                                      > but let's use Warmage as an example.
                                      >
                                      > A Warmage wearing a Chain Shirt and a Light Steel Shield has an ASF of
                                      > 25%, just like anyone else does. However, /when he casts Warmage
                                      > spells/, he ignores the chance of spell failure, since it's light
                                      > armor and shield. He does not see a reduction in ASF, but he ignores
                                      > it. In other words, your statement, /"some classes lower that number
                                      > (ASF)"/ is technically incorrect.
                                      >
                                      > Here's why: If our Warmage decides to multi-class with Wizard (maybe
                                      > he's gotta have that Shield spell), he does not ignore the chance of
                                      > spell failure when he casts Wizard spells. See the text for the
                                      > Armored Mage ability in the Warmage (Complete Arcane, p.12).
                                      >
                                      > Because of the multi-class situation, the decision was made that the
                                      > Armored Mage ability (and similar abilities) were /conditional /on the
                                      > spell in question being from that class. In other words, /it's tracked
                                      > and applied by the player/, not by the sheet.
                                      >
                                      > An elegant solution might be to check to see if the race/class/feat
                                      > combination allowed one to ignore ASF from the specified armor type,
                                      > then to asterisk, enclose in parenthesis, or otherwise modify the ASF
                                      > number to show that it doesn't apply to the specific class's spells.
                                      >
                                      > Finally, I'm not sure if there are abilities or feats out there that
                                      > allow a character to /reduce /ASF. In defense of my ignorance, I don't
                                      > play mages very often, and I tend to limit sourcebooks when I GM.
                                      >
                                      > Telas
                                      >
                                      >

                                      ------------------------------------

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                                      --
                                      An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
                                      - G.K. Chesterton

                                    • Paul
                                      I presume we re tracking this separately to the Battle Caster feat from Complete Arcane, which increases the category of armour worn and still ignore ASF
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
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                                        I presume we’re tracking this separately to the Battle Caster feat from Complete Arcane, which increases the category of armour worn and still ignore ASF penalties?

                                         

                                        Eg the Warmage class can cast in Light Armour without incurring ASF from the armour worn. Give the Warmage the Battle Caster feat, and the character can cast in Medium Armour without ASF penalty. The Battle Sorcerer class variant from Unearthed Arcana has the same benefit (can cast in Light Armour without suffering ASF).

                                         

                                        Or would the Battle Caster feat be considered conditional as well, as you must have the ability to ignore ASF before you can take the feat?

                                         

                                         

                                        Regards,

                                         

                                        Paul

                                         

                                        "God must love stupid people. He made so many of them."


                                        From: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Daneri
                                        Sent: Saturday, 5 April 2008 12:14
                                        To: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor

                                         

                                        The key word being “conditional”. HF was not intended to track anything “conditional”. Only things that always work in all situations are tracked by the sheet. The rest has to be up to the player.

                                         

                                        To donate to the HeroForge project click here!

                                        Robert Daneri
                                        HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                        Account & Marketing Manager
                                        Lead Interface Programmer
                                        robert.daneri@ heroforgesoftwar e.com

                                         

                                        From: Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: Hero_ Forge@yahoogroup s.com ] On Behalf Of Telas
                                        Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:07 PM
                                        To: Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor

                                         

                                        Thanks.  I'll retract my statement about "some classes lower that number" being incorrect.  Some classes do indeed lower that number, or at least one class and one armor.  In re-reading the thread, I think the confusion was about the conditional nature of it. 

                                        Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled confusion...  ;-)

                                        Telas



                                        On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Jason Davis <ibhappi@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                        Also the Twilight ability can be added to armor and lower it by 10%.

                                        Jed


                                        Christopher Mathieu wrote:

                                        >
                                        > The Spellsword (/Complete Warrior /79) has this ability. At 1st level,
                                        > they reduce the arcane spell failure chance for any armor they wear by
                                        > 10%; this increases by 5% every odd level.
                                        >
                                        > *To donate to the HeroForge project click here!

                                        > <https://www. paypal.com/ cgi-bin/webscr? cmd=_donations&business=donations% 40heroforgesoftw are%2ecom&item_name=HeroForge %20Software&no_shipping= 0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code= USD&lc=US&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF% 2d8>*

                                        >

                                        > Christopher Mathieu
                                        >
                                        > HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                        >
                                        > Operations Manager
                                        >
                                        > Lead Programmer
                                        >
                                        > Christopher. Mathieu@heroforg esoftware. com

                                        > <mailto:Christopher. Mathieu@heroforg esoftware. com>

                                        >

                                        > *From:* Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com
                                        [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com]
                                        > *On Behalf Of *Telas
                                        > *Sent:* Friday, April 04, 2008 1:51 PM
                                        > *To:* Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com
                                        > *Subject:* Re: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor
                                        >
                                        > I'm not sure what confuses you, so here's what I've seen. If it helps,
                                        > I was working with HF when they added Complete Arcane to it...
                                        >
                                        > Certain classes give the ability to /ignore /ASF from specific types
                                        > of armor (light, medium, or heavy armor) for that class's spells. A
                                        > certain feat 'bumps' the ability to ignore ASF to the next 'weight' of
                                        > armor. There may be other modifiers or cases (class, race, feat, etc),
                                        > but let's use Warmage as an example.
                                        >
                                        > A Warmage wearing a Chain Shirt and a Light Steel Shield has an ASF of
                                        > 25%, just like anyone else does. However, /when he casts Warmage
                                        > spells/, he ignores the chance of spell failure, since it's light
                                        > armor and shield. He does not see a reduction in ASF, but he ignores
                                        > it. In other words, your statement, /"some classes lower that number
                                        > (ASF)"/ is technically incorrect.
                                        >
                                        > Here's why: If our Warmage decides to multi-class with Wizard (maybe
                                        > he's gotta have that Shield spell), he does not ignore the chance of
                                        > spell failure when he casts Wizard spells. See the text for the
                                        > Armored Mage ability in the Warmage (Complete Arcane, p.12).
                                        >
                                        > Because of the multi-class situation, the decision was made that the
                                        > Armored Mage ability (and similar abilities) were /conditional /on the
                                        > spell in question being from that class. In other words, /it's tracked
                                        > and applied by the player/, not by the sheet.
                                        >
                                        > An elegant solution might be to check to see if the race/class/feat
                                        > combination allowed one to ignore ASF from the specified armor type,
                                        > then to asterisk, enclose in parenthesis, or otherwise modify the ASF
                                        > number to show that it doesn't apply to the specific class's spells.
                                        >
                                        > Finally, I'm not sure if there are abilities or feats out there that
                                        > allow a character to /reduce /ASF. In defense of my ignorance, I don't
                                        > play mages very often, and I tend to limit sourcebooks when I GM.
                                        >
                                        > Telas
                                        >
                                        >


                                        ------------ --------- --------- ------

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                                        --
                                        An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
                                        - G.K. Chesterton

                                      • Telas
                                        I believe you have it correct in the last line. The Battle Caster feat increases the category of armor worn for the Armored Mage ability. It does not grant
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 4, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I believe you have it correct in the last line.  The Battle Caster feat increases the category of armor worn for the Armored Mage ability.  It does not grant that ability to spells from other classes, or otherwise benefit spells cast from classes without that ability.  The Warmage-Wizard in our example would still have to manually track which spells ignore ASF and which spells do not. 

                                          For what it's worth, HF does not show the modified ASF that a Spellsword would have; it shows the armor's full ASF, although it notes the reduction on CS2.  I believe that in all cases, the ASF of the armor is what is shown on the sheet, regardless of race/class/feats chosen.  (I've been proven wrong, however.)

                                          Also, the Battle Sorcerer variant is not in HF, although I understand it as an example.  Actually, it looks like a 'first attempt' at a Warmage.

                                          Telas


                                          On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Paul <paul0370@...> wrote:

                                          I presume we're tracking this separately to the Battle Caster feat from Complete Arcane, which increases the category of armour worn and still ignore ASF penalties?

                                           

                                          Eg the Warmage class can cast in Light Armour without incurring ASF from the armour worn. Give the Warmage the Battle Caster feat, and the character can cast in Medium Armour without ASF penalty. The Battle Sorcerer class variant from Unearthed Arcana has the same benefit (can cast in Light Armour without suffering ASF).

                                           

                                          Or would the Battle Caster feat be considered conditional as well, as you must have the ability to ignore ASF before you can take the feat?

                                           

                                           

                                          Regards,

                                           

                                          Paul

                                           

                                          "God must love stupid people. He made so many of them."


                                          From: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Daneri
                                          Sent: Saturday, 5 April 2008 12:14

                                          Subject: RE: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor

                                           

                                          The key word being "conditional". HF was not intended to track anything "conditional". Only things that always work in all situations are tracked by the sheet. The rest has to be up to the player.

                                           



                                          Robert Daneri
                                          HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                          Account & Marketing Manager
                                          Lead Interface Programmer
                                          robert.daneri@...

                                           

                                        • richmondman3001
                                          Maybe this is a silly question, but were is the various caster levels listed on the sheet? Sorry but I never rolled up a caster with the Forge.
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 5, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Maybe this is a silly question, but were is the various caster levels
                                            listed on the sheet? Sorry but I never rolled up a caster with the Forge.
                                          • M. Sydney Halterman
                                            Random late responce to this thread... I had the opportunity to play the Battle Sorcerer variant from UA in an Iron Kingdoms campaign. It was very fun. It did
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 25, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Random late responce to this thread...

                                              I had the opportunity to play the Battle Sorcerer variant from UA in
                                              an Iron Kingdoms campaign. It was very fun. It did have a bit of
                                              the Battle Mage feel, however, IIRC, the Battle Mage is Intelligence
                                              based. So the feel I get from them is that they are a Wizard that
                                              learned to wear armour. The Battle Sorcerer is still Charisma
                                              based, so that still gives me the feel of a "natural" spell caster.

                                              But I guess that's just my own feel of the character classes...

                                              >:)

                                              --- In Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com, Telas <TelasTX@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I believe you have it correct in the last line. The Battle Caster
                                              feat
                                              > increases the category of armor worn for the Armored Mage
                                              ability. It does
                                              > not grant that ability to spells from other classes, or otherwise
                                              benefit
                                              > spells cast from classes without that ability. The Warmage-Wizard
                                              in our
                                              > example would still have to manually track which spells ignore ASF
                                              and which
                                              > spells do not.
                                              >
                                              > For what it's worth, HF does not show the *modified *ASF that a
                                              Spellsword
                                              > would have; it shows the armor's full ASF, although it notes the
                                              reduction
                                              > on CS2. I believe that in all cases, the ASF of the armor is what
                                              is shown
                                              > on the sheet, regardless of race/class/feats chosen. (I've been
                                              proven
                                              > wrong, however.)
                                              >
                                              > Also, the Battle Sorcerer variant is not in HF, although I
                                              understand it as
                                              > an example. Actually, it looks like a 'first attempt' at a
                                              Warmage.
                                              >
                                              > Telas
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Paul <paul0370@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > I presume we're tracking this separately to the *Battle Caster*
                                              feat from
                                              > > *Complete Arcane*, which increases the category of armour worn
                                              and still
                                              > > ignore ASF penalties?
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Eg the Warmage class can cast in Light Armour without incurring
                                              ASF from
                                              > > the armour worn. Give the Warmage the Battle Caster feat, and
                                              the character
                                              > > can cast in Medium Armour without ASF penalty. The Battle
                                              Sorcerer class
                                              > > variant from Unearthed Arcana has the same benefit (can cast in
                                              Light Armour
                                              > > without suffering ASF).
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Or would the Battle Caster feat be considered conditional as
                                              well, as you
                                              > > must have the ability to ignore ASF before you can take the feat?
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Regards,
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Paul
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > *"God must love stupid people. He made so many of them."*
                                              > > ------------------------------
                                              > >
                                              > > *From:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                              [mailto:Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com] *On
                                              > > Behalf Of *Robert Daneri
                                              > > *Sent:* Saturday, 5 April 2008 12:14
                                              > > *To:* Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > *Subject:* RE: [Hero_Forge] Re: Armor
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > The key word being "conditional". HF was not intended to track
                                              anything
                                              > > "conditional". Only things that always work in all situations
                                              are tracked by
                                              > > the sheet. The rest has to be up to the player.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > *To donate to the HeroForge project click here!
                                              <https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?
                                              cmd=_donations&business=donations%40heroforgesoftware%
                                              2ecom&item_name=HeroForge%
                                              20Software&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0¤cy_code=USD&lc=US&bn=P
                                              P%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8>
                                              > > *
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Robert Daneri
                                              > > HeroForge™ Software, LLC
                                              > > Account & Marketing Manager
                                              > > Lead Interface Programmer
                                              > > robert.daneri@...
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
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