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Re: [HeroQuest-RPG] Re: Sartar Kingdom of Heroes vs the other published material

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  • David Scott
    ... Personally I d avoid using ST & TR if you re going to start using Sartar. They introduce a level of complexity into the cults that isn t there in Sartar.
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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      On 21 Dec 2009, at 10:11, manuel M wrote:
      > The fact is that I own 2 copies of each of ST and TR and all the SR books and so was planning to start introducing them to the players.
      >
      Personally I'd avoid using ST & TR if you're going to start using Sartar. They introduce a level of complexity into the cults that isn't there in Sartar. In the end Sartar will give you much more flexible and simple characters that the players can more easily understand. As the character generation rune system isn't in ST & TR, when converting it's easy to limit your character. It's much more fun from scratch with Sartar.
      -----
      David

      David Scott. Mac & PC Computer Support.
      30 Alfred Road, Acton, W3 6LH.
      020-8150-9716 / 07956-589433
      http://www.davidscott.org.uk/





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Douglas Seay
      ... Two years doesn t matter that much for a source book, does it? For the adventures, sure. But not so much for how to play a Heortling in Sartar. The main
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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        Jeff wrote:
        >> - Is the Sartar Kingdom of Heroes campaign compatible with the Sartar Rising campaign published material? or does it replace it in the same timeline with a different course of event?
        >
        > The SKH campaign material is set before the SR material - with most of the action taking place 1618-1619.

        Two years doesn't matter that much for a source book, does it? For the
        adventures, sure. But not so much for how to play a Heortling in
        Sartar. The main difference seems the rules, especially with HQ1's
        focus on subcults, and HQ2 focus on runes. I haven't noticed any glaring
        differences so far, and it just adds to the YGWV.


        > The Whitewall book (coming out late next year after Guide to Glorantha - sorry, I can only work on one book at a time) massively expands upon the material in the SR campaign and cover the years 1620-1625 in the style of the Great Pendragon Campaign.

        Then scrap all effort any wasted on Prax or Pavis and get going on this
        ASAP. I'm far more interested in hairy barbarians than unwashed nomads.

        :-)


        >> - Is the content published in Sartar Kingdom of heroes compatible and in line with Storm Tribe and Thunder rebels?
        >
        > Cults are presented quite differently in SKH but the material is broadly compatible. However, TR and ST are out of print and are not relied upon or refered to in future releases.

        Eh. Isn't part of the magic of Glorantha hunting down out-of-print
        works? Obscure references mentioned once in some fan press have been
        around as long as I have. That is part of the power of Peter Metcalfe's
        vast knowledge of Glorantha. If everything is in print, he might be out
        of a job.


        >> - Is the clan questionaire based on the one in Barbarian adventures or should I wait for clan creation till I get myself the Sartar Kingdom of heroes book?
        >
        > Definitely wait until you get SKH. Although it is based on the one in King of Dragon Pass (as was the one in OiD), the SKH clan questionaire is specifically designed for the new HQ2 community resource rules.

        I agree 100% with Jeff on this one. I really liked the questionnaire
        and clan generation in S:KoH. I have nothing against the older ones,
        but I do think this is better.

        - doug
      • L C
        ... Wouldn t seem so. Pre-invasion would be the only significant difference, I would think, and even then not so much. ... *nod* This does seem a major shift,
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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          Douglas Seay wrote:
          >
          > Two years doesn't matter that much for a source book, does it? For the
          > adventures, sure. But not so much for how to play a Heortling in
          > Sartar.
          >
          Wouldn't seem so. Pre-invasion would be the only significant difference,
          I would think, and even then not so much.

          > The main difference seems the rules, especially with HQ1's
          > focus on subcults, and HQ2 focus on runes. I haven't noticed any glaring
          > differences so far, and it just adds to the YGWV.
          >
          *nod* This does seem a major shift, however.
          >
          >
          > > The Whitewall book (coming out late next year after Guide to
          > Glorantha - sorry, I can only work on one book at a time) massively
          > expands upon the material in the SR campaign and cover the years
          > 1620-1625 in the style of the Great Pendragon Campaign.
          >
          > Then scrap all effort any wasted on Prax or Pavis and get going on this
          > ASAP. I'm far more interested in hairy barbarians than unwashed nomads.
          >
          > :-)
          >

          While Whitewall would be fun, I'd actually like getting the nomads since
          I haven't seen them since I found Glorantha with HQ1. :)
          >
          >
          > > Cults are presented quite differently in SKH but the material is
          > broadly compatible. However, TR and ST are out of print and are not
          > relied upon or refered to in future releases.
          >
          > Eh. Isn't part of the magic of Glorantha hunting down out-of-print
          > works?
          >
          Magic? I wouldn't use that word. :-)
          >
          > Obscure references mentioned once in some fan press have been
          > around as long as I have. That is part of the power of Peter Metcalfe's
          > vast knowledge of Glorantha. If everything is in print, he might be out
          > of a job.
          >
          I sometimes think Glorantha would benefit from a "re-imagining" along
          the lines of BSG. :-)


          >
          > > Definitely wait until you get SKH. Although it is based on the one
          > in King of Dragon Pass (as was the one in OiD), the SKH clan
          > questionaire is specifically designed for the new HQ2 community
          > resource rules.
          >
          > I agree 100% with Jeff on this one. I really liked the questionnaire
          > and clan generation in S:KoH. I have nothing against the older ones,
          > but I do think this is better.
          >
          > -
          >
          I've heard this from a number of places, actually. So that seems pretty
          much a no-brainer. :)


          LC
        • Osentalka
          ... I like the series very much... the 1978 series that is. I am not interested in the new stuff. Same thing for Glorantha. I like my Glorantha as it is
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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            > > Obscure references mentioned once in some fan press have been
            > > around as long as I have. That is part of the power of Peter Metcalfe's
            > > vast knowledge of Glorantha. If everything is in print, he might be out
            > > of a job.
            > >
            > I sometimes think Glorantha would benefit from a "re-imagining" along
            > the lines of BSG. :-)

            I like the series very much... the 1978 series that is.
            I am not interested in the new stuff.

            Same thing for Glorantha.
            I like my Glorantha as it is (developing, finding more details, etc is
            great... but a re-image? no thanks).
          • manuel M
            Thanks to all for your advice. As my company decided to pay my salary earlier this month I just made the jump and bought the PDF to start with. The book will
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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              Thanks to all for your advice.
              As my company decided to pay my salary earlier this month I just made the jump and bought the PDF to start with. The book will have to wait a little.
              And yes I'm really a fan of the Heortlings.

              Manuel

              --- In HeroQuest-RPG@yahoogroups.com, L C <lightcastle@...> wrote:
              >
              > Douglas Seay wrote:
              > >
              > > Two years doesn't matter that much for a source book, does it? For the
              > > adventures, sure. But not so much for how to play a Heortling in
              > > Sartar.
              > >
              > Wouldn't seem so. Pre-invasion would be the only significant difference,
              > I would think, and even then not so much.
              >
              > > The main difference seems the rules, especially with HQ1's
              > > focus on subcults, and HQ2 focus on runes. I haven't noticed any glaring
              > > differences so far, and it just adds to the YGWV.
              > >
              > *nod* This does seem a major shift, however.
              > >
              > >
              > > > The Whitewall book (coming out late next year after Guide to
              > > Glorantha - sorry, I can only work on one book at a time) massively
              > > expands upon the material in the SR campaign and cover the years
              > > 1620-1625 in the style of the Great Pendragon Campaign.
              > >
              > > Then scrap all effort any wasted on Prax or Pavis and get going on this
              > > ASAP. I'm far more interested in hairy barbarians than unwashed nomads.
              > >
              > > :-)
              > >
              >
              > While Whitewall would be fun, I'd actually like getting the nomads since
              > I haven't seen them since I found Glorantha with HQ1. :)
              > >
              > >
              > > > Cults are presented quite differently in SKH but the material is
              > > broadly compatible. However, TR and ST are out of print and are not
              > > relied upon or refered to in future releases.
              > >
              > > Eh. Isn't part of the magic of Glorantha hunting down out-of-print
              > > works?
              > >
              > Magic? I wouldn't use that word. :-)
              > >
              > > Obscure references mentioned once in some fan press have been
              > > around as long as I have. That is part of the power of Peter Metcalfe's
              > > vast knowledge of Glorantha. If everything is in print, he might be out
              > > of a job.
              > >
              > I sometimes think Glorantha would benefit from a "re-imagining" along
              > the lines of BSG. :-)
              >
              >
              > >
              > > > Definitely wait until you get SKH. Although it is based on the one
              > > in King of Dragon Pass (as was the one in OiD), the SKH clan
              > > questionaire is specifically designed for the new HQ2 community
              > > resource rules.
              > >
              > > I agree 100% with Jeff on this one. I really liked the questionnaire
              > > and clan generation in S:KoH. I have nothing against the older ones,
              > > but I do think this is better.
              > >
              > > -
              > >
              > I've heard this from a number of places, actually. So that seems pretty
              > much a no-brainer. :)
              >
              >
              > LC
              >
            • L C
              ... Heh. I am fond of both, actually. ... Eh. Having glanced at some old books, it seems it clearly gets reimaged piecemeal all the time. (We call it
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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                Osentalka wrote:
                >
                >
                > > I sometimes think Glorantha would benefit from a "re-imagining" along
                > > the lines of BSG. :-)
                >
                > I like the series very much... the 1978 series that is.
                > I am not interested in the new stuff.
                >
                Heh. I am fond of both, actually.
                >
                > Same thing for Glorantha.
                > I like my Glorantha as it is (developing, finding more details, etc is
                > great... but a re-image? no thanks).
                >
                Eh. Having glanced at some old books, it seems it clearly gets reimaged
                piecemeal all the time. (We call it "Gregging", I believe.)
                In fact, from what I heard, ST and TR were exactly that, a massive
                re-imagining of the Heortlings of Sartar. (Gods got changed, added, etc.)

                I think a wholesale "we are not beholden to the archaic lore of old"
                would be useful. In other words, if it was printed before "x" it doesn't
                have to apply, even if we might draw on it for official canon in the future.

                But that's just me, and it has little to do with HQ2 rules. :)

                LC
              • John Machin
                2009/12/21 David Scott sciencefish@me.com ... As long as you ignore all the mechanical bits (admittedly not that much in TR!) you can get a lot of mileage out
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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                  2009/12/21 David Scott sciencefish@...

                  > Personally I'd avoid using ST & TR if you're going to start using Sartar.
                  > They introduce a level of complexity into the cults that isn't there in
                  > Sartar. In the end Sartar will give you much more flexible and simple
                  > characters that the players can more easily understand. As the character
                  > generation rune system isn't in ST & TR, when converting it's easy to limit
                  > your character. It's much more fun from scratch with Sartar.
                  >


                  As long as you ignore all the mechanical bits (admittedly not that much in
                  TR!) you can get a lot of mileage out of Thunder Rebels and Storm Tribe.
                  Thunder Rebels in particular has a lot of neat cultural stuff.

                  --
                  John Machin
                  "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
                  - Athanasius Kircher, 'The Great Art of Knowledge'.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Michael Hitchens
                  ... Hasn t Glorantha already been re-imaged about 3 times? ;-) Michael -- ... Dr. Michael Hitchens Senior Lecturer, Department of Computing Macquarie
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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                    Osentalka wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Obscure references mentioned once in some fan press have been
                    > > > around as long as I have. That is part of the power of Peter
                    > Metcalfe's
                    > > > vast knowledge of Glorantha. If everything is in print, he might
                    > be out
                    > > > of a job.
                    > > >
                    > > I sometimes think Glorantha would benefit from a "re-imagining" along
                    > > the lines of BSG. :-)
                    >
                    > I like the series very much... the 1978 series that is.
                    > I am not interested in the new stuff.
                    >
                    > Same thing for Glorantha.
                    > I like my Glorantha as it is (developing, finding more details, etc is
                    > great... but a re-image? no thanks).
                    >
                    Hasn't Glorantha already been re-imaged about 3 times? ;-)

                    Michael

                    --
                    ---------
                    Dr. Michael Hitchens
                    Senior Lecturer, Department of Computing
                    Macquarie University
                    michaelh@...
                  • Sven Lugar
                    What - has someone done something to Greg s brain? Having known Greg for 40 years, I always thought Glorantha exists in the mental connection that Greg has to
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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                      What - has someone done something to Greg's brain? Having known Greg for
                      40 years, I always thought Glorantha exists in the mental connection
                      that Greg has to it! LOL - everyone have a great Yule!
                      Skal,
                      Sven

                      Michael Hitchens wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > ...snip...
                      > Hasn't Glorantha already been re-imaged about 3 times? ;-)
                      >
                      > Michael
                      >
                      > --
                      > ---------
                      > Dr. Michael Hitchens
                      > Senior Lecturer, Department of Computing
                      > Macquarie University
                      > michaelh@... <mailto:michaelh%40science.mq.edu.au>
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • L C
                      Also, if you don t care so much about the rulesy bits on the gods (and assuming they haven t done a complete rewrite on the gods) you get lots of cultural bits
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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                        Also, if you don't care so much about the rulesy bits on the gods (and
                        assuming they haven't done a complete rewrite on the gods) you get lots
                        of cultural bits and myths and fun stuff in Storm Tribe.

                        John Machin wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > As long as you ignore all the mechanical bits (admittedly not that much in
                        > TR!) you can get a lot of mileage out of Thunder Rebels and Storm Tribe.
                        > Thunder Rebels in particular has a lot of neat cultural stuff.
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                      • Jeff
                        But much of that culture stuff and myths are also in Sartar, and better present, better organized. And there s a lot more in it as well. Together with the
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 21, 2009
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                          But much of that culture stuff and myths are also in Sartar, and better present, better organized. And there's a lot more in it as well. Together with the Heortling Mythology book, Sartar + HM has EVERY Orlanthi myth Greg has in his collection.

                          Jeff

                          --- In HeroQuest-RPG@yahoogroups.com, L C <lightcastle@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Also, if you don't care so much about the rulesy bits on the gods (and
                          > assuming they haven't done a complete rewrite on the gods) you get lots
                          > of cultural bits and myths and fun stuff in Storm Tribe.
                          >
                          > John Machin wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > As long as you ignore all the mechanical bits (admittedly not that much in
                          > > TR!) you can get a lot of mileage out of Thunder Rebels and Storm Tribe.
                          > > Thunder Rebels in particular has a lot of neat cultural stuff.
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > >
                          >
                        • Manuel MOLINIER
                          I read quickly the PDF and I like the presentation. From quick reading the keywords do not seem to have abilities written on them which might be a little more
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                            I read quickly the PDF and I like the presentation.
                            From quick reading the keywords do not seem to have abilities written on
                            them which might be a little more work for player and GM when creating new
                            characters.

                            I run HQ2.0 now and find it easier to get people who never played it in and
                            the only difficulty is for people to start with those keywords and abilities
                            and figure out what they can do.
                            On the other hand in the long term it might be better to have keywords with
                            no preset list of abilities.

                            I think I'll use the ST - TR ability list as example for the people but not
                            list them under the keywords in character sheets.

                            Manuel

                            On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Jeff <richaje@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > But much of that culture stuff and myths are also in Sartar, and better
                            > present, better organized. And there's a lot more in it as well. Together
                            > with the Heortling Mythology book, Sartar + HM has EVERY Orlanthi myth Greg
                            > has in his collection.
                            >
                            > Jeff
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In HeroQuest-RPG@yahoogroups.com <HeroQuest-RPG%40yahoogroups.com>, L
                            > C <lightcastle@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Also, if you don't care so much about the rulesy bits on the gods (and
                            > > assuming they haven't done a complete rewrite on the gods) you get lots
                            > > of cultural bits and myths and fun stuff in Storm Tribe.
                            > >
                            > > John Machin wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > As long as you ignore all the mechanical bits (admittedly not that much
                            > in
                            > > > TR!) you can get a lot of mileage out of Thunder Rebels and Storm
                            > Tribe.
                            > > > Thunder Rebels in particular has a lot of neat cultural stuff.
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • L C
                            ... I agree with this. I have found that if the keyword isn t very clear in the mind of the person and GM, the no pre-set list can cause problems. Once you
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                              Manuel MOLINIER wrote:
                              > I run HQ2.0 now and find it easier to get people who never played it in and
                              > the only difficulty is for people to start with those keywords and abilities
                              > and figure out what they can do.
                              > On the other hand in the long term it might be better to have keywords with
                              > no preset list of abilities.
                              >
                              I agree with this. I have found that if the keyword isn't very clear in
                              the mind of the person and GM, the no pre-set list can cause problems.
                              Once you have a good idea of it, though, I find it works far better to
                              not feel constrained by a list of abilities.

                              > I think I'll use the ST - TR ability list as example for the people but not
                              > list them under the keywords in character sheets.
                              >

                              That seems wise.
                              LC
                            • Manuel MOLINIER
                              I ran a very good Starwars game using HQ2.0 and people really loved it. It s quite easy for them to visualize what someone with a keyword can do or not. In
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                I ran a very good Starwars game using HQ2.0 and people really loved it. It's
                                quite easy for them to visualize what someone with a keyword can do or not.
                                In this case I confused them by giving them abilities and too much rules
                                related details in the 1st place and all went better when I just told them
                                to pick an archetype and go with it.
                                I think it all depend on how knowledgeable the people are of the settings or
                                the genre and unfortunately for us Glorantha is not even closely as famous
                                as any hollywood blockbuster.

                                Manuel


                                On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:08 AM, L C <lightcastle@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Manuel MOLINIER wrote:
                                > > I run HQ2.0 now and find it easier to get people who never played it in
                                > and
                                > > the only difficulty is for people to start with those keywords and
                                > abilities
                                > > and figure out what they can do.
                                > > On the other hand in the long term it might be better to have keywords
                                > with
                                > > no preset list of abilities.
                                > >
                                > I agree with this. I have found that if the keyword isn't very clear in
                                > the mind of the person and GM, the no pre-set list can cause problems.
                                > Once you have a good idea of it, though, I find it works far better to
                                > not feel constrained by a list of abilities.
                                >
                                >
                                > > I think I'll use the ST - TR ability list as example for the people but
                                > not
                                > > list them under the keywords in character sheets.
                                > >
                                >
                                > That seems wise.
                                > LC
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • L C
                                Yes, exactly what I mean. :) LC
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                  Yes, exactly what I mean. :)
                                  LC

                                  Manuel MOLINIER wrote:
                                  > I think it all depend on how knowledgeable the people are of the settings or
                                  > the genre and unfortunately for us Glorantha is not even closely as famous
                                  > as any hollywood blockbuster.
                                  >
                                  > Manuel
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Jeff
                                  ... We have found though copious playtesting with different groups that people very quickly get used to the idea that the hunter keyword lets them do
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                    > I run HQ2.0 now and find it easier to get people who never played it in and
                                    > the only difficulty is for people to start with those keywords and abilities
                                    > and figure out what they can do.

                                    We have found though copious playtesting with different groups that people very quickly get used to the idea that the "hunter" keyword lets them do whatever a hunter is supposed to be able to do. The lists of abilities under keywords confused as many people as they helped (especially since people usually end up treating exemplary lists as the enumerated abilities - call it "Hamilton's Law").

                                    Jeff
                                  • Kenrae
                                    ... You too? I ran a Star Wars scenario on a Convention and everybody had a lot of fun. Nobody knew the rules at all beforehand (except me, of course). I
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                      > Re: Sartar Kingdom of Heroes vs the other published material
                                      > Posted by: "Manuel MOLINIER" manuel.molinier@... manuelmolinier
                                      >
                                      > I ran a very good Starwars game using HQ2.0 and people really loved it. It's
                                      > quite easy for them to visualize what someone with a keyword can do or not.
                                      > In this case I confused them by giving them abilities and too much rules
                                      > related details in the 1st place and all went better when I just told them
                                      > to pick an archetype and go with it.
                                      > I think it all depend on how knowledgeable the people are of the settings or
                                      > the genre and unfortunately for us Glorantha is not even closely as famous
                                      > as any hollywood blockbuster.
                                      >
                                      > Manuel

                                      You too? I ran a Star Wars scenario on a Convention and everybody had
                                      a lot of fun. Nobody knew the rules at all beforehand (except me, of
                                      course).
                                      I didn't even use pregenerated characters, I used the as-you-go creation method.

                                      I was particularly fond of a droid character. All of his abilities
                                      were "systems". Combat Targeting System, Visual Detection System,
                                      Natural Language System and so on. Very funny xD.

                                      Cheers,
                                      -Sergi Díaz
                                    • Manuel MOLINIER
                                      I agree with a statement I read somewhere on Internet. This is how you see that G. Lucas is not a gamer, else Issaries/Moon design would have the Star Wars
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                        I agree with a statement I read somewhere on Internet. This is how you see
                                        that G. Lucas is not a gamer, else Issaries/Moon design would have the Star
                                        Wars License ;-)

                                        Manuel

                                        On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Kenrae <kenrae@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Re: Sartar Kingdom of Heroes vs the other published material
                                        > > Posted by: "Manuel MOLINIER" manuel.molinier@...<manuel.molinier%40gmail.com>manuelmolinier
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > I ran a very good Starwars game using HQ2.0 and people really loved it.
                                        > It's
                                        > > quite easy for them to visualize what someone with a keyword can do or
                                        > not.
                                        > > In this case I confused them by giving them abilities and too much rules
                                        > > related details in the 1st place and all went better when I just told
                                        > them
                                        > > to pick an archetype and go with it.
                                        > > I think it all depend on how knowledgeable the people are of the settings
                                        > or
                                        > > the genre and unfortunately for us Glorantha is not even closely as
                                        > famous
                                        > > as any hollywood blockbuster.
                                        > >
                                        > > Manuel
                                        >
                                        > You too? I ran a Star Wars scenario on a Convention and everybody had
                                        > a lot of fun. Nobody knew the rules at all beforehand (except me, of
                                        > course).
                                        > I didn't even use pregenerated characters, I used the as-you-go creation
                                        > method.
                                        >
                                        > I was particularly fond of a droid character. All of his abilities
                                        > were "systems". Combat Targeting System, Visual Detection System,
                                        > Natural Language System and so on. Very funny xD.
                                        >
                                        > Cheers,
                                        > -Sergi D�az
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • L C
                                        Doesn t surprise me. The cases where it has been an issue for me is when it has been something that people don t know well enough. ( Heortling to someone who
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                          Doesn't surprise me. The cases where it has been an issue for me is
                                          when it has been something that people don't know well enough.
                                          ("Heortling" to someone who has never encountered Glorantha, for
                                          instance.) Stuff like "Hunter" "Thug" "Jock" etc, tend to be easy to
                                          judge and NOT having listed abilities helped immensely.

                                          My personal experience, but am not surprised to see that it came up in
                                          the playtesting.

                                          LC

                                          Jeff wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > We have found though copious playtesting with different groups that
                                          > people very quickly get used to the idea that the "hunter" keyword
                                          > lets them do whatever a hunter is supposed to be able to do. The lists
                                          > of abilities under keywords confused as many people as they helped
                                          > (especially since people usually end up treating exemplary lists as
                                          > the enumerated abilities - call it "Hamilton's Law").
                                          >
                                          > Jeff
                                          >
                                          > _
                                        • Jeff
                                          Heortling is not a keyword. Instead being a member of your clan - which you and your players make with the clan generator questionnaire - is the keyword. I
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                            "Heortling" is not a keyword. Instead being a member of your clan - which you and your players make with the clan generator questionnaire - is the keyword. I have found players who have participated in the CGQ very quickly know what an ordinary member of their clan should be able to do.

                                            Jeff

                                            --- In HeroQuest-RPG@yahoogroups.com, L C <lightcastle@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Doesn't surprise me. The cases where it has been an issue for me is
                                            > when it has been something that people don't know well enough.
                                            > ("Heortling" to someone who has never encountered Glorantha, for
                                            > instance.) Stuff like "Hunter" "Thug" "Jock" etc, tend to be easy to
                                            > judge and NOT having listed abilities helped immensely.
                                            >
                                            > My personal experience, but am not surprised to see that it came up in
                                            > the playtesting.
                                            >
                                            > LC
                                            >
                                            > Jeff wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > We have found though copious playtesting with different groups that
                                            > > people very quickly get used to the idea that the "hunter" keyword
                                            > > lets them do whatever a hunter is supposed to be able to do. The lists
                                            > > of abilities under keywords confused as many people as they helped
                                            > > (especially since people usually end up treating exemplary lists as
                                            > > the enumerated abilities - call it "Hamilton's Law").
                                            > >
                                            > > Jeff
                                            > >
                                            > > _
                                            >
                                          • L C
                                            I can see that working FAR better. LC
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 22, 2009
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                                              I can see that working FAR better.
                                              LC

                                              Jeff wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > "Heortling" is not a keyword. Instead being a member of your clan -
                                              > which you and your players make with the clan generator questionnaire
                                              > - is the keyword. I have found players who have participated in the
                                              > CGQ very quickly know what an ordinary member of their clan should be
                                              > able to do.
                                              >
                                              > Jeff
                                              >
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