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Re: [HeroWars] Fetishes

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  • Roderick and Ellen Robertson
    ... Anyone on either list not know about the other? HW-Rules: hw-rules@eGroups.com HeroWars: HeroWars@egroups.com There. hopefully everyone will join *both*
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 3, 2000
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      > I asked this as part of a response on HW-rules, but as it's really more
      > a GLoranthan issue than a rules issue I thought I'd repeat it here
      > (should there be a rule on crossposts?)

      Anyone on either list not know about the other?

      HW-Rules: hw-rules@...
      HeroWars: HeroWars@egroups.com

      There. hopefully everyone will join *both* lists (though why, exactly, we
      need two of them, plus the Glorantha Digest (send a "subscribe" request to
      glorantha-digest-request@...) is another thing entirely)

      > Are Fetishes specific to the type of spirit that you are placing in
      > them?
      >
      > I'm guessing that the answer ought to be yes - For example a Fly spirit
      > fetish might include a feather, while a Combat fetish includes a
      > predators tooth.

      I'd say that it depends on your play style and players. In Gloranthan
      Reality, I'd say probably "Yes, it matters very much". Tradition Knowledge
      helps you determine that you need a primary flight feather from the left
      wing of a Spotted Hawk when making a fetish for a "Fly high" spirit of the
      Long Man spirit tradition.

      Now, in HeroWars, you can drive your plots by making the heroes get the
      absolute correct items for their fetishes, or you can ignore it. One way can
      be a lot of fun and lead to many strange adventures ("tell me again, *why*
      are we climbing this incredibly tall and hazardous cliff?" "I need to get
      droppings from the Cooroo bird for my 'Animal speech' fetish, and this is
      the only place it nests"), but it can also be a *lot* of work ("uh, Mr.
      narrator sir, I want a fetish for a 'Leap far' fetish. What do I need to
      make it?"). The other way leads to "lessened Gloranthan immersion" but runs
      a heck of a lot faster.

      As far as "refilling" fetishes, whta is meant is that your "fetish quota"
      may be "refilled" between adventures, not that the physical fetish is
      "refilled". Some 1-use fetishes may be destroyed by the act of invoking the
      spirit within - "throw this packet into the fire to summon the spirit",
      "smash this gourd", "eat this leaf"...

      You can spend as much or as little time as you want/prefer/need to describe
      the various fetishes, rituals, spells, etc. Ask yourself (or ask your
      players) "is it fun? does it advance the plot?" It can be like the loving
      shots some movies use when the hero is arming up for the final confrontation
      (early Schwarzenegger movies tend to do this a lot) - the hero opens the
      valise filled with weapons and ammo, and spends the next 10 minutes of
      screen time loading guns, ramming knives into sheathes, tieing, slinging or
      belting on various pieces of equipment and finally he is shown in all his
      glory: bandana around his head, greasepaint camo smeared on his cheeks,
      enough weapons to storm a third world country and bare arms cradling a
      machingun (with ammo belts casually draped across his many, sweat-speckled
      torso)... (Think of the Arming or Orlanth vis a vis the arming scene in
      "Commando" - no wonder Arnie can fire a machine gun with the tag end of an
      ammo belt hanging out of the reciever and *never reload* - his ritual arming
      obviously gave him the "Endless Ammo" feat!)

      Roderick
    • kmnellist@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/3/00 4:55:44PM, you write:
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 3, 2000
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        In a message dated 6/3/00 4:55:44PM, you write:

        << HW-Rules: hw-rules@...
        HeroWars: HeroWars@egroups.com

        There. hopefully everyone will join *both* lists (though why, exactly, we
        need two of them, plus the Glorantha Digest (send a "subscribe" request to
        glorantha-digest-request@...) is another thing entirely)
        >>

        I guess the Glorantha Digest should be Glorantha as it might be to the
        inhabitants, a kind of pure Glorantha unhindered by game constructs. HW-Rules
        is the world of game constructs, not strictly for Glorantha, and Hero Wars is
        where the two meet/clash/synergise. Admittedly, I think that it is possibly
        one list too many.

        Keith N
      • KYER, JEFFREY
        ... Yeah. ... Very well put. ... I generally do something like this the first time they learn a new ritual or fetish. And then assume that, if they have time,
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 5, 2000
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          > There. hopefully everyone will join *both* lists (though why, exactly, we
          > need two of them, plus the Glorantha Digest (send a "subscribe" request to
          > glorantha-digest-request@...) is another thing entirely)

          Yeah.

          > > Are Fetishes specific to the type of spirit that you are placing in
          > > them?
          > >
          > > I'm guessing that the answer ought to be yes - For example a Fly spirit
          > > fetish might include a feather, while a Combat fetish includes a
          > > predators tooth.
          >
          > I'd say that it depends on your play style and players. In Gloranthan
          > Reality, I'd say probably "Yes, it matters very much". Tradition Knowledge
          > helps you determine that you need a primary flight feather from the left
          > wing of a Spotted Hawk when making a fetish for a "Fly high" spirit of the
          > Long Man spirit tradition.

          Very well put.

          > Now, in HeroWars, you can drive your plots by making the heroes get the
          > absolute correct items for their fetishes, or you can ignore it. One way can
          > be a lot of fun and lead to many strange adventures ("tell me again, *why*
          > are we climbing this incredibly tall and hazardous cliff?" "I need to get
          > droppings from the Cooroo bird for my 'Animal speech' fetish, and this is
          > the only place it nests"), but it can also be a *lot* of work ("uh, Mr.
          > narrator sir, I want a fetish for a 'Leap far' fetish. What do I need to
          > make it?"). The other way leads to "lessened Gloranthan immersion" but runs
          > a heck of a lot faster.

          I generally do something like this the first time they learn a new
          ritual or fetish. And then assume that, if they have time, they can do
          it without trouble next time. Unless its a special case, of course =)
          -- or I need something to pad out the adventure. A 'day in the life' is
          good, low key kinda adventure.

          > As far as "refilling" fetishes, whta is meant is that your "fetish quota"
          > may be "refilled" between adventures, not that the physical fetish is
          > "refilled". Some 1-use fetishes may be destroyed by the act of invoking the
          > spirit within - "throw this packet into the fire to summon the spirit",
          > "smash this gourd", "eat this leaf"...

          Good point. 1-use may be just that, 1 use in a physical sense.

          > You can spend as much or as little time as you want/prefer/need to describe
          > the various fetishes, rituals, spells, etc. Ask yourself (or ask your
          > players) "is it fun? does it advance the plot?" It can be like the loving

          Ah, the mantra. Advance the plot and have fun. If you've done the
          Arming of Orlanth a dozen times, then you really can get bored with it.

          > shots some movies use when the hero is arming up for the final confrontation
          > (early Schwarzenegger movies tend to do this a lot) - the hero opens the
          > valise filled with weapons and ammo, and spends the next 10 minutes of
          > screen time loading guns, ramming knives into sheathes, tieing, slinging or
          > belting on various pieces of equipment and finally he is shown in all his
          > glory: bandana around his head, greasepaint camo smeared on his cheeks,

          Aliens. The marines arming up. That's my combat ritual. (You look
          absolutely BAAAAAD!)

          > enough weapons to storm a third world country and bare arms cradling a
          > machingun (with ammo belts casually draped across his many, sweat-speckled
          > torso)... (Think of the Arming or Orlanth vis a vis the arming scene in
          > "Commando" - no wonder Arnie can fire a machine gun with the tag end of an
          > ammo belt hanging out of the reciever and *never reload* - his ritual arming
          > obviously gave him the "Endless Ammo" feat!)
          >
          > Roderick

          Our resident cross-bow wielding maniac would give his right arm for a
          feat like that. I'd let him do it too -- he'd have to learn the
          fire-one-handed feat of course.... Another Arnie Subcult feat, natch.
          Or is it John Wayne?

          Jeff
        • KYER, JEFFREY
          ... This is a good thought. A Medicine Bag trait and item might be very useful. Its increased use would reflect the animist s greater skills and foresight
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 5, 2000
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            >
            > I seem to recall reading a story in which the hero (or heroine, it might
            > have been Jean M Auel's series) had a small leather bag which held a
            > number of spiritually important items. This could give you a single
            > "fetish bag" capable of holding any "normal" spirits from your tradition
            > (where "normal" means any that the Narrator does not want to invent
            > special fetishes for).
            > --
            > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
            > | Tim Ellis EMail tim@... |
            > | What is the use of a book without pictures or conversations? |
            > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
            >

            This is a good thought. A 'Medicine Bag' trait and item might be very
            useful. Its increased use would reflect the animist's greater skills
            and foresight in packing the appropriate feishes.

            Its *just* like Travelling Fetish Salesman but not as silly =)

            In fact, I just added Medicine Bag to my kolati's abilities. Thanks,
            Tim.

            Jeff
          • philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk
            ... Maybe not, but a fetish can be a tattoo. The difference is, I don t think a character can just decide that all their fetishes are going to be tattooed onto
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 15, 2000
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              >Can a tattoo be a fetish?

              Maybe not, but a fetish can be a tattoo. The difference is, I don't think a
              character can just decide that all their fetishes are going to be tattooed
              onto their body. There may be traditions in which this is common, or within
              a tradition there may be some magics that commonly have a tattooed fetish,
              etc. This question carries a faint whiff of minimaxing, I'm partly thinking
              of plausible and fair counters to it.

              Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/
              Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let
              alone those of any organisations, nations, species,
              or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated.
            • KYER, JEFFREY
              ... I would think so! How else is a hsuchen going to run around without his fetishes if he;s turned himself into a badger? Of course, if you get captured, I m
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 15, 2000
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                "Lemens, Chris" wrote:
                >
                > Can a tattoo be a fetish?
                >
                > Chris Lemens
                >

                I would think so! How else is a hsuchen going to run around without his
                fetishes if he;s turned himself into a badger?

                Of course, if you get captured, I'm sure your captors would take
                measures to 'disarm' you properly. I understand being skinned alive is
                remarkably painful...

                Jeff
              • Wulf Corbett
                ... without his ... alive is ... Ask any Dragonewt... Oh, hold on, they re probably mystics... so what are THEIR tatoos for? :) Wulf
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 15, 2000
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                  --- In HeroWars@egroups.com, "KYER, JEFFREY" <jeff.kyer@c...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > "Lemens, Chris" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Can a tattoo be a fetish?
                  >
                  > I would think so! How else is a hsuchen going to run around
                  without his
                  > fetishes if he;s turned himself into a badger?
                  >
                  > Of course, if you get captured, I'm sure your captors would take
                  > measures to 'disarm' you properly. I understand being skinned
                  alive is
                  > remarkably painful...

                  Ask any Dragonewt... Oh, hold on, they're probably mystics... so what
                  are THEIR tatoos for? :)

                  Wulf
                • Gerald R Bosch
                  ... I would think that the use of tattoos as fetishes would be common in many traditions. The Telmori jump to mind as a culture that would need this. As for
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 15, 2000
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                    At 03:26 PM 6/15/00 +0100, you wrote:
                    >
                    >>Can a tattoo be a fetish?
                    >
                    >Maybe not, but a fetish can be a tattoo. The difference is, I don't think a
                    >character can just decide that all their fetishes are going to be tattooed
                    >onto their body. There may be traditions in which this is common, or within
                    >a tradition there may be some magics that commonly have a tattooed fetish,
                    >etc. This question carries a faint whiff of minimaxing, I'm partly thinking
                    >of plausible and fair counters to it.

                    I would think that the use of tattoos as fetishes would be common in many
                    traditions. The Telmori jump to mind as a culture that would need this. As
                    for "minimaxing" there is one counter that goes back to RQ- the downside of
                    a tattooed fetish is that an enemy really only has one way of depriving the
                    owner of its use: remove the tattooed body part! If fetishes are tattooed,
                    prepare for summary amputations!

                    Gerald
                  • Tim Ellis
                    ... Certainly some traditions may use tattoos for some fetishes. Of course tattoos can be used in other ways too - I quote from Snerri, a character Nick
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 15, 2000
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                      --- In HeroWars@egroups.com, philip.hibbs@t... wrote:
                      >
                      > >Can a tattoo be a fetish?
                      >
                      > Maybe not, but a fetish can be a tattoo.

                      Certainly some traditions may use tattoos for some fetishes. Of
                      course tattoos can be used in other ways too - I quote from Snerri, a
                      character Nick Hollingsworth created that I posted to Hw-Rules back
                      in May

                      Desperate to prove herself as good as any man she scorns armour. A
                      riot of tattoos protect and hide her. Drawn by her trickster father,
                      these changing patterns reveal secrets, banalities and crudity in
                      equal measure.

                      Nick expanded a bit on the Tattoos in his rewrite, and added the
                      following
                      Tattoos:Changing patterns 13
                      Reveal secrets 13 (potential flaw)
                      Untimely crudity 13 (potential flaw)

                      These came under the general idea of putting stuff down on the
                      Character Sheet and worrying about what it was and how it worked
                      later!
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