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Re: Campaign styles; inflation

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  • t_m_ellis
    ... Gosh Peter, What a soft-hearted GM you must be...
    Message 1 of 30 , Mar 5, 2002
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      --- In HeroWars@y..., Peter Metcalfe <metcalph@b...> wrote:
      > The situation's further skewed by the impetus to climb Everest
      > at all costs because if you miss the chance now, you'll have to
      > wait a couple of years before you get another chance (because of
      > the waiting list). Whereas a party of heroes can afford to wait
      > until the danger has passed before continuing.
      >

      Gosh Peter, What a soft-hearted GM you must be...
    • Peter Metcalfe
      David Boatright ... That would applies when someone is using winter magic against them, not when they are using their winter magic to survive natural winter.
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 5, 2002
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        David Boatright

        > >Certainly 5W4 is far too strong as it will kill virtually all
        > >Valind devotees that have just gained the secret of survive
        > >winter at a rating of 12, which doesn't sound right.

        >Being a magical ability would they not roll against a 14?

        That would applies when someone is using winter magic
        against them, not when they are using their winter magic
        to survive natural winter.

        --Peter Metcalfe
      • wulfcorbett
        ... I would have said quite the opposite, natural, non-specific opposition would have a 14 resistance, while directed magical effects would use the rating of
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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          --- In HeroWars@y..., Peter Metcalfe <metcalph@b...> wrote:
          > David Boatright
          >
          > >Being a magical ability would they not roll against a 14?
          >
          > That would applies when someone is using winter magic
          > against them, not when they are using their winter magic
          > to survive natural winter.

          I would have said quite the opposite, natural, non-specific
          opposition would have a 14 resistance, while directed magical effects
          would use the rating of the magician or magical force.

          Wulf
        • Peter Metcalfe
          ... But the base resistance of 14 is only for resisting magic (HW:RiG p170). ... Not so according to the example on p171 where Rurik uses a resistance of 14
          Message 4 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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            At 09:49 6/03/02 +0000, you wrote:

            > > That would applies when someone is using winter magic
            > > against them, not when they are using their winter magic
            > > to survive natural winter.

            >I would have said quite the opposite, natural, non-specific
            >opposition would have a 14 resistance,

            But the base resistance of 14 is only for resisting magic
            (HW:RiG p170).

            >while directed magical effects
            >would use the rating of the magician or magical force.

            Not so according to the example on p171 where Rurik
            uses a resistance of 14 instead of a toughness of 12
            to resist a magical flame.

            --Peter Metcalfe
          • wulfcorbett
            ... Hmm... I think we re getting mixed up here... without quoting (sorry, but I m at work and don t have time), David, I think, was suggesting the resistance
            Message 5 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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              --- In HeroWars@y..., Peter Metcalfe <metcalph@b...> wrote:
              > >I would have said quite the opposite, natural, non-specific
              > >opposition would have a 14 resistance,
              >
              > But the base resistance of 14 is only for resisting magic
              > (HW:RiG p170).

              Hmm... I think we're getting mixed up here... without quoting (sorry,
              but I'm at work and don't have time), David, I think, was suggesting
              the resistance to the Secret of 'Survive Winter' (or whatever it's
              called) would only be 14, regardless of the severity of the winter,
              because the Secret is magical, and the winter mundane.

              As you suggest, the 14 minimum/default resistance applies when you
              are attacked/affected by magic, but applies to the winter's
              resistance against your Survival magic too. It just depends on
              whether you consider the Secret to be limited to a defense, or usable
              as an attack...

              Wulf
            • KYER, JEFFREY
              ... Beats having Bing as a guide. My players never, ever forgave me for running Road to Boldhome - apparently, they all hated the old Road movies. Good
              Message 6 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                David Cake wrote:
                >
                > Cue song and dance scene from 'Cannibal! the Musical'
                > (MUSIC STARTS) BELL: It's a long, long, waaaaay for us to go. But if
                > we don't try we'll never know. Stay optommistic, set our goals go
                > high. There's nothing we can't do, if we aim for the,
                > (CHORUS COMES IN) sky is blue, and all the leaves are green. The
                > answer's pure as a baked potata. I think we know precisely what we
                > mean, when we say it's a shpadoinkle day. When we say its a
                > shpadoinkle day!
                >
                > BUTCHER: How long is it going take?
                > PACKER: O, no more than 3 weeks at the most!
                > BUTCHER: Alright, lets go.
                > (MUSIC STOPS)

                Beats having Bing as a guide. My players never, ever forgave me for
                running '
                Road to Boldhome' - apparently, they all hated the old 'Road' movies.
                Good thing I didn't dare inflict the sequel, "Carry On Orlanthi" on
                them.

                Jeff
              • ian_hammond_cooper
                ... I was convinced you were making this up - until I found this... http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/ballad-alferd-packer.html
                Message 7 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                  David Cake wrote:
                  >Cue song and dance scene from 'Cannibal! the Musical'

                  I was convinced you were making this up - until I found this...

                  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/ballad-alferd-packer.html
                • Roderick and Ellen Robertson
                  ... 14 is also for resisting the World when you have nothing better, and for the world to resist *you* when it has nothing better. (HW 124) According to
                  Message 8 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                    > > > That would applies when someone is using winter magic
                    > > > against them, not when they are using their winter magic
                    > > > to survive natural winter.
                    >
                    > >I would have said quite the opposite, natural, non-specific
                    > >opposition would have a 14 resistance,
                    >
                    > But the base resistance of 14 is only for resisting magic
                    > (HW:RiG p170).

                    14 is also for resisting "the World" when you have nothing better, and for
                    the world to resist *you* when it has nothing better. (HW 124)

                    According to Greg's ideas (and no, I really don't want to get into whether
                    they are good or bad ideas, please), using a magical effect exactly as it
                    says (Frex, using "Leap over tree" to leap over a tree, no matter how high,
                    as long as it isn't defined as "magically high") meets a basic resistance of
                    14.

                    > >while directed magical effects
                    > >would use the rating of the magician or magical force.
                    >
                    > Not so according to the example on p171 where Rurik
                    > uses a resistance of 14 instead of a toughness of 12
                    > to resist a magical flame.

                    That example shows that a Toughness of 17 would be used to resist the
                    (physical, though magically produced) flame. *IF* Rurik's toughness were
                    only 12, *THEN* he would use 14 as the "default" resistance because it is
                    higher than his toughness. Dabranilla's ability is not affected by Rurik's
                    toughness or lack thereof; it is still 5w (or whatever, I can't remember if
                    I ever statted her up).

                    Personal Opinion only:
                    IMG, *I* would allow a Valinding to "reduce" the effects of purely mundane
                    winter weather from any rating to 14 (for himself only, non-transferable)
                    once he knows the Valinding secret of "Survive Winter". However, Winter
                    (Dark Season) in Sartar isn't *just* a case of mundane winds & snow, it
                    includes actively *magical* winds and storms.

                    Say Veoslin Valinding goes out in the teeth of The Howler (TR 123) who has a
                    "Bitterly Cold Wind 10w4" ability. He can add his "Survive Winter" ability
                    to his Toughness or an affinity (say, North Wind, which allows him the feat
                    "Command North Wind Umbroli") (See the Secret description, ST 234), but he
                    doesn't "reduce" the Howler's ability. He still has to face "Bitterly Cold
                    Wind 10w4".

                    RR
                  • Peter Larsen
                    ... Hmmm. Then one way around the whole question of why granny doesn t freeze to death on the way to the outhouse might be that the wyter (or clan magic, deals
                    Message 9 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                      At 9:17 AM -0800 3/6/02, Roderick and Ellen Robertson wrote:
                      >Personal Opinion only:
                      >IMG, *I* would allow a Valinding to "reduce" the effects of purely mundane
                      >winter weather from any rating to 14 (for himself only, non-transferable)
                      >once he knows the Valinding secret of "Survive Winter". However, Winter
                      >(Dark Season) in Sartar isn't *just* a case of mundane winds & snow, it
                      >includes actively *magical* winds and storms.
                      >
                      >Say Veoslin Valinding goes out in the teeth of The Howler (TR 123) who has a
                      >"Bitterly Cold Wind 10w4" ability. He can add his "Survive Winter" ability
                      >to his Toughness or an affinity (say, North Wind, which allows him the feat
                      >"Command North Wind Umbroli") (See the Secret description, ST 234), but he
                      >doesn't "reduce" the Howler's ability. He still has to face "Bitterly Cold
                      >Wind 10w4".

                      Hmmm. Then one way around the whole question of why granny
                      doesn't freeze to death on the way to the outhouse might be that the
                      wyter (or clan magic, deals with Umbroli, etc) gives some big
                      "Survive Winter" boost for clan members going about their regular
                      business on the tula (or on the stead, if you feel like cabin fever).
                      So getting by in the DP winter isn't so bad (assuming you bundle up,
                      stay out for reasonable periods of time, say your prayers, don't
                      indulge in secret murder or other acts designed to summon the wrath
                      of the gods down on you, etc), but travelling is a real bear -- you'd
                      have to command, cow, or bargain with every Umbroli between your home
                      and your destination while struggling with "natural" problems like
                      snow and frostbite. No wonder the weaponthanes in KoDP are dubious
                      about raiding in winter....

                      Peter Larsen
                    • theunspokenword
                      ... arising. ... Shattering a shield - assuming it is not magical or the like - means beating a resistance 14. No big deal - this is cinematic style - things
                      Message 10 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                        --- In HeroWars@y..., stefan.drawert@u... wrote:
                        > anyway, while I like the general idea, I feel some problems
                        arising.
                        > for instance: how does this work with feats like Humakt's "kill
                        > undead" or "shield destroyer"?
                        > [deja vu or not, I think we all got into this long ago, still not
                        > solved]

                        Shattering a shield - assuming it is not magical or the like - means
                        beating a resistance 14. No big deal - this is cinematic style -
                        things break all the time around heroes!

                        Resisting magic for beings defaults to 14 unless you have some more
                        powerful and appropriate magic or ability of your own. So that
                        Vampire would resist the Humakti magic not with a mere 14 but its
                        Vicious Vivamorti Vigour 1w2 or whatever.

                        Hope this helps!

                        Mark

                        Mark Galeotti
                      • stefan.drawert@uni-bielefeld.de
                        Hallo Roderick, ... Roderick 14 is also for resisting the World when you have nothing better, and for Roderick the world to resist *you* when it has
                        Message 11 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                          Hallo Roderick,

                          Mittwoch, 18:17:55, schrieb Roderick:

                          >|>> > > That would applies when someone is using winter magic
                          >> > > against them, not when they are using their winter magic
                          >> > > to survive natural winter.
                          >>
                          >> >I would have said quite the opposite, natural, non-specific
                          >> >opposition would have a 14 resistance,
                          >>
                          >> But the base resistance of 14 is only for resisting magic
                          >> (HW:RiG p170).

                          Roderick> 14 is also for resisting "the World" when you have nothing better, and for
                          Roderick> the world to resist *you* when it has nothing better. (HW 124)

                          Roderick> According to Greg's ideas (and no, I really don't want to get into whether
                          Roderick> they are good or bad ideas, please), using a magical effect exactly as it
                          Roderick> says (Frex, using "Leap over tree" to leap over a tree, no matter how high,
                          Roderick> as long as it isn't defined as "magically high") meets a basic resistance of
                          Roderick> 14.

                          I remember Greg's post way back, he used the same example IIRC.
                          or was it even you, quoting him?

                          anyway, while I like the general idea, I feel some problems arising.
                          for instance: how does this work with feats like Humakt's "kill
                          undead" or "shield destroyer"?
                          [deja vu or not, I think we all got into this long ago, still not
                          solved]

                          any thoughts on this?
                          [and *no*, this is not meant to start a discussion whether this will be
                          forthe better or worse, I just want to understand how I can handle
                          feats this way]


                          --
                          Countdown Cerebus---still 23 to go...,

                          Stefan
                          Mittwoch, 18:28:14

                          .||| mailto: stefan.drawert@...
                          .||| visit: www.clubintakt.de
                          .||| 06:04:2002 -- Elin wird 2! & club in:Kamp - party
                        • David Dunham
                          Roderick ... I ll be happy to get into it (but not on this list since it s really a rules issue), but I will say that I think the idea of a *secret* s
                          Message 12 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                            Roderick

                            > According to Greg's ideas (and no, I really don't want to get into whether
                            > they are good or bad ideas, please), using a magical effect exactly as it
                            > says (Frex, using "Leap over tree" to leap over a tree, no matter how high,
                            > as long as it isn't defined as "magically high") meets a basic resistance of
                            > 14.

                            > Personal Opinion only:
                            > IMG, *I* would allow a Valinding to "reduce" the effects of purely mundane
                            > winter weather from any rating to 14 (for himself only, non-transferable)
                            > once he knows the Valinding secret of "Survive Winter".

                            I'll be happy to get into it (but not on this list since it's really
                            a rules issue), but I will say that I think the idea of a *secret*'s
                            resistance being only 14 makes a lot more sense. It is, after all, a
                            secret, some loophole that when you learn it, you understand how the
                            amount of cold no longer matters the way it does to other magic. It's
                            just cold, and you laugh at it.
                            --

                            David Dunham <mailto:dunham@...>
                            Glorantha/HW/RQ page: <http://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha.html>
                            Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
                          • stefan.drawert@uni-bielefeld.de
                            Hello Mark, Mittwoch, 18:32:26, Mark wrote: theunspokenword Shattering a shield - assuming it is not magical or the like - means theunspokenword beating a
                            Message 13 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                              Hello Mark,

                              Mittwoch, 18:32:26, Mark wrote:


                              theunspokenword> Shattering a shield - assuming it is not magical or the like - means
                              theunspokenword> beating a resistance 14. No big deal - this is cinematic style -
                              theunspokenword> things break all the time around heroes!

                              ok by me, I nearly can see all that shattered shields & metal lying all over the
                              battlefield when the Humakt Deathlord finally meets his Yarnafal
                              counterpart, provided that the lunar god of war is capable of similar
                              feats.

                              theunspokenword> Resisting magic for beings defaults to 14 unless you have some more
                              theunspokenword> powerful and appropriate magic or ability of your own. So that
                              theunspokenword> Vampire would resist the Humakti magic not with a mere 14 but its
                              theunspokenword> Vicious Vivamorti Vigour 1w2 or whatever.

                              that leaves Delecti's zombies pretty vulnerable, unless

                              a. the narrator rules that "kill undead" is only useful to augment
                              and/or
                              b. Delecti enchants all his creatures, thereby raising the resistance

                              while b. is ok by me [though a bit "tweaky"],
                              I don't get around a. [still, after 2 years :(
                              when does a narrator rule "that feat augments, and this works as
                              stand-alone <feat>"

                              "swordhelp" would be good candidate for augmentation only, but good
                              players eventually will come with a nice "myth" of Humakt
                              "swordhelping" some comrade.


                              --

                              Stefan
                              Mittwoch, 18:49:27

                              .||| mailto: stefan.drawert@...
                              .||| visit: www.clubintakt.de
                              .||| 06:04:2002 -- Elin wird 2! & club in:Kamp - party
                            • wesleyquadros
                              Message: 25 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:32:26 -0000 From: theunspokenword Subject: Re: 14 is a magic number ... I m not sure that I
                              Message 14 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                                Message: 25
                                Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:32:26 -0000
                                From: "theunspokenword" <hia15@...>
                                Subject: Re: 14 is a magic number

                                >Shattering a shield - assuming it is not magical or the like - means
                                >beating a resistance 14. No big deal - this is cinematic style -
                                >things break all the time around heroes!
                                >

                                I'm not sure that I agree with this and thus lies my problem with
                                these
                                feats. Why wouldn't the shield's wearer be able to defend himself
                                (and his
                                property) with his own magic? If a humakti can break my shield with a
                                target of 14, then a ZZ can set my clothes on fire with the same ease.

                                And what would be the resistance for a magical shield - assuming that
                                the
                                shield does not have an ability rating.

                                Wesley




                                > Mark
                                >
                                > Mark Galeotti
                              • Roderick and Ellen Robertson
                                ... How I would adjudicate it (today, while I m thinking about it, not meant as gospel from on-high) is that Harry Humakti says I m going to attack his shield
                                Message 15 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                                  > > anyway, while I like the general idea, I feel some problems
                                  > arising.
                                  > > for instance: how does this work with feats like Humakt's "kill
                                  > > undead" or "shield destroyer"?
                                  > > [deja vu or not, I think we all got into this long ago, still not
                                  > > solved]
                                  >
                                  > Shattering a shield - assuming it is not magical or the like - means
                                  > beating a resistance 14. No big deal - this is cinematic style -
                                  > things break all the time around heroes!

                                  How I would adjudicate it (today, while I'm thinking about it, not meant as
                                  gospel from on-high) is that Harry Humakti says "I'm going to attack his
                                  shield with my 'Shield Breaker' feat, 7 AP bid". Assuming he wins the toss,
                                  the first 7 AP points lost by his opponent goes into removing the shield,
                                  just like "Trading AP for Wounds". Any additional AP lost (because of a
                                  better victory) go against the opponent's AP just like normal.

                                  The same would go for a "Weapon Breaker" or "Disarm" feat - though only 7 AP
                                  would be needed to disarm the opponent, not (7xWeapon Rating).

                                  Now, someone who wants to break a weapon or shield *without* having
                                  feats/abilities to do so would be faced by the opponent's full Close Combat
                                  ability, rather than the 14 default.

                                  > Resisting magic for beings defaults to 14 unless you have some more
                                  > powerful and appropriate magic or ability of your own. So that
                                  > Vampire would resist the Humakti magic not with a mere 14 but its
                                  > Vicious Vivamorti Vigour 1w2 or whatever.

                                  Right.
                                  A typical skeleton (Anaxial 241) would defend against the Humakti's "Kill
                                  Undead" feat with 14 rather than it's Close Combat 2w.

                                  A special skeleton with "Resist Magic", "Supernatural Vigor" or "Tough
                                  Bones" would use that ability rating rather than Close Combat or 14. A
                                  Vampire should almost always be a special creature crafted for the adveture,
                                  rather than simply pulled out of the book (and, you will notice, they don't
                                  appear in Anaxial).

                                  RR
                                • theunspokenword
                                  Hi Wesley, ... with a ... ease. I d say that a rough rule of thumb is that if it is going to hurt someone directly (eg, by setting their clothes on file) then
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                                    Hi Wesley,

                                    > Why wouldn't the shield's wearer be able to defend himself
                                    > (and his
                                    > property) with his own magic? If a humakti can break my shield
                                    with a
                                    > target of 14, then a ZZ can set my clothes on fire with the same
                                    ease.

                                    I'd say that a rough rule of thumb is that if it is going to hurt
                                    someone directly (eg, by setting their clothes on file) then it is
                                    an attack, and therefore the wearer can resist. Again, I think it is
                                    important to think of the cinematic conventions rather than treating
                                    HW as a realistic simulation.

                                    Another way of thinking about it is if that ZZ tries to ignite the
                                    hero's clothes against a resistance of 14, a success would not
                                    cremate the hero but say that, for example, his cloak starts burning
                                    and he must quickly wrench off the clasp and drop it. Not fatal, but
                                    if what the ZZ was trying to do was disrupt a ritual, create a
                                    diversion or simply signal to the other uz in the wood where there
                                    target was, effective.

                                    > And what would be the resistance for a magical shield - assuming
                                    that
                                    > the
                                    > shield does not have an ability rating.

                                    Usally I'd assume that the shield *would* have an ability rating...

                                    Mark

                                    Mark Galeotti
                                  • David Cake
                                    ... I agree with David that I am happy for Secrets to do all sorts of things. Normally, the idea of adding two abilities together would really bug me (HW
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                                      >
                                      >I'll be happy to get into it (but not on this list since it's really
                                      >a rules issue), but I will say that I think the idea of a *secret*'s
                                      >resistance being only 14 makes a lot more sense. It is, after all, a
                                      >secret, some loophole that when you learn it, you understand how the
                                      >amount of cold no longer matters the way it does to other magic. It's
                                      >just cold, and you laugh at it.

                                      I agree with David that I am happy for Secrets to do all
                                      sorts of things.
                                      Normally, the idea of adding two abilities together would
                                      really bug me (HW abilities are logarithmic, so if you add two you
                                      are really multiplying, which usually makes no sense), but there are
                                      plenty of secrets that do it, and it doesn't bother me.
                                      cheers
                                      David
                                    • Roderick and Ellen Robertson
                                      Trying to move this over to HW Rules, as it is getting kinda number-heavy... ... You can, *if* you have appropriate magic to do it with. If Harry Humakti tries
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                                        Trying to move this over to HW Rules, as it is getting kinda number-heavy...

                                        > >Shattering a shield - assuming it is not magical or the like - means
                                        > >beating a resistance 14. No big deal - this is cinematic style -
                                        > >things break all the time around heroes!
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > I'm not sure that I agree with this and thus lies my problem with
                                        > these
                                        > feats. Why wouldn't the shield's wearer be able to defend himself
                                        > (and his
                                        > property) with his own magic? If a humakti can break my shield with a
                                        > target of 14, then a ZZ can set my clothes on fire with the same ease.

                                        You can, *if* you have appropriate magic to do it with. If Harry Humakti
                                        tries to use "Shield Breaker" on Barbara Babs Gori, she counters with her
                                        "Unbreakable Shield" feat rather than the default of 14. The Black Horse
                                        troop can use "Resist Pagan God"Or were you looking for some other "personal
                                        magic" that doesn't include specific feats/spells? You could also try some
                                        other ability entirely: Vala Vingan might say "I defend by leaping away from
                                        him". Now Vala can use her Jump ability rather than 14 to resist the attack.
                                        (Vinga shares "Leaping Shield" with Orlanth Adventurous, which might also be
                                        used to defend against Shield Breaker).

                                        In this specific case of Shield breaking, I'd basically rule that Shield
                                        Breaker trumps Close Combat, but not necessarily other abilities that aren't
                                        based on, or closely related to, Close Combat.

                                        > And what would be the resistance for a magical shield - assuming that
                                        > the
                                        > shield does not have an ability rating.

                                        Depending on what the specific effects in the shield, any "Stop
                                        Damage"-style ability would probably work, "Resist Magic" probably as well.
                                        Using the Lasadag Lions (BA 26) as examples, a Lion Man's shield would break
                                        on 14 because it's totally non-magical, but I'd give a Pride Leader's shield
                                        a 19 to resist "Shield Breaker" because it provides 19 AP to the Pride
                                        leader.

                                        But in all rules adjudication, remember that the story comes before the
                                        rules!

                                        RR
                                      • con1453@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 3/6/02 11:00:29 PM, stefan.drawert@uni-bielefeld.de writes:
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Mar 6, 2002
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                                          In a message dated 3/6/02 11:00:29 PM, stefan.drawert@... writes:

                                          << anybody else experiencing strange happenings with yahoo these days?

                                          or is it just a lag? >>

                                          Yahoo has been having problems for the last 2 days; messages get lost or
                                          delayed. I've experienced this on several discussion lines.

                                          Jim Chapin
                                        • t_m_ellis
                                          ... Hmm, Charles Hawtrey as Termatain, Kenneth Williams as Taitius the (not too) bright, Hatti Jaques as Kallyr, Barbara Windsor as Jar-Eel, Sid James as
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Mar 7, 2002
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                                            --- In HeroWars@y..., "KYER, JEFFREY" <jeff.kyer@c...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Good thing I didn't dare inflict the sequel, "Carry On Orlanthi" on
                                            > them.
                                            >
                                            Hmm, Charles Hawtrey as Termatain, Kenneth Williams as Taitius the
                                            (not too) bright, Hatti Jaques as Kallyr, Barbara Windsor as Jar-Eel,
                                            Sid James as Argrath...
                                          • nichughes2001
                                            ... the ... fever). I ve been thinking about this in terms of a long-term clan based game (Hero Wars meets Pendragon meets Ars Magica) and I came to the
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Mar 11, 2002
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                                              --- In HeroWars@y..., Peter Larsen <plarsen@g...> wrote:
                                              > Hmmm. Then one way around the whole question of why granny
                                              > doesn't freeze to death on the way to the outhouse might be that
                                              the
                                              > wyter (or clan magic, deals with Umbroli, etc) gives some big
                                              > "Survive Winter" boost for clan members going about their regular
                                              > business on the tula (or on the stead, if you feel like cabin
                                              fever).

                                              I've been thinking about this in terms of a long-term clan based game
                                              (Hero Wars meets Pendragon meets Ars Magica) and I came to the
                                              conclusion that granny makes it to the dunny because she is well fed
                                              and has warm wollen clothes on.

                                              Maybe that needs a little elaboration in terms of game mechanics. In
                                              the simplest case every household would just make a group simple
                                              contest against 5W4 to survive the winter - as you can figure their
                                              chances would not be good. If they work as a team and follow the
                                              advice of the head of the family then resolve that as a single
                                              contest by the head augmented by 10 family members or so - still not
                                              good odds. Of course Sartarites do not just live in families, they
                                              live in clans and people within a clan mutually support one another.
                                              So the clan ring members each roll in a group simple contest against
                                              the winter augmented by all those heads of families who look to them
                                              for advice, who are in turn augmented by their families. Mostly the
                                              people involved only have relevant skills of 17 or so (farming,
                                              herding, weaving, etc) but cascaded up in a properly functioning clan
                                              they will still usually make it through the winter OK. A clan
                                              divided by strife however would struggle to survive, which in meta-
                                              gaming terms I would consider a good thing as it would help explain
                                              some Sartarite attitudes.

                                              I did think that keeping track of which ring members might fail and
                                              succeed against the 5W4 would possibly make for storylines or
                                              background colour (e.g if the merchant fails then they failed to buy
                                              some crucial supplies in time and the heroes have to go off to buy
                                              some replacement copper pots if they want their stew cooked, over the
                                              snow-bound passes of mid-winter - aargh). It might also affect long-
                                              term clan politics as those who regularly "beat" the winter will have
                                              their advice listened to more and will be increasingly respected by
                                              the clan - important if player characters get onto the clan ring at
                                              some point.

                                              --
                                              Nic
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