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Haplogroup G Newsletter for 14 November 2010

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  • Ray Banks
    November 14, 2010 For old issues of the newsletter, link to http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HaploGNewsGrp/ Newcomers: You need to understand SNPs to
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 13, 2010
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      November 14, 2010
      For old issues of the newsletter, link to http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HaploGNewsGrp/
      Newcomers: You need to understand "SNPs" to understand some items here.  SNPs are permanent DNA mutations that are passed on to all males in the direct line of male descent.  They are used to subgroup G persons. who share specific SNPs  Abbreviated terms, such as L141, are used to designate SNP locations on the chromosome.  To see G categories, link to the ISOGG listing of these at  http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpG.html  For a more complicated and slightly less accurate version link to Family Tree DNA's draft of the new G tree http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=20173662.
      General News
      Haplogroup G found in Ancient Skeleton.  A new study reports on DNA testing of ancient skeletons found in a burial area in north central Germany.  The site is southwest of Berlin.  The oldest previously reported G sample was from a sample in the early Middle Ages in eastern Bavaria in the south of Germany.  This one is much older.  While the particular G sample could not be dated, the others in the cemetery were a little over 6000 yrs old. The archeological findings assign it to the Linear Pottery Culture.  The chart showing one G sample can be found at
      The most specific G haplogroup category found was S126 which corresponds to the standard L30 test at Family Tree DNA (G2a3).  This seems to be the first time one of the SNPs discovered by the genealogy labs has been used in a research study.  While this is one of the the most precise G categories ever reported in a research study, they regretfully did not test for any subgroups of G2a3.  It is possible their methodology limited the number of SNPs that could be tested.  My working theory for the G2a3 mutation is that it is about 10,000 years old.  One of the implications of the paper is that it establishes a minimum age for the G2a3 SNP for the first time.
      Perhaps about 90% of the G persons in Europe belong to G2a3.  The question arises as to whether they are descended from this group in the graveyard in Saxony-Anhalt Germany.  While these skeletons are supposed to be a little over 6000 yrs old, the time differences between a high percentage of European G persons and their counterparts in Iran, Armenia, etc. are about half of this.  So my first impression is that this cemetery sample is from an offshoot band that went to Europe from areas to the east and is not the ancestor of any significant number of European G persons.  In fact, the F* haplogroup seen in the other burial area samples is seldom found in Europe today.
      This article seems to make computations based on STR marker values, but I was unable to spot listings of the actual marker values.  If anyone finds them, the information would be appreciated.
      Update on SNPs L373 through L379 (in G2a3a1).  It was reported earlier that Mr. Beguet who belongs to the G2a3a1 (L14+) group had 7 new SNPs discovered in his sample during Walk through the Y testing.  Mr. Beguet has obtained additional information about these.  The lab reports these are indeed adjacent on the chromosome, which means that probably only one of these SNPs will eventually require testing when it is determined that all results are the same in everyone tested.  They were all probably caused by a single mutation event.   In addition, the lab indicates these same mutations were also found in the public database of the Human Genome Project in another L14+ person.  So this is not a familial SNP.  It is also possible these new SNPs are not confined to just L14 persons, which would make them much more useful. Ted Kandell indicates he will check the other G samples in the Human Genome Project to see if they shed more light on these SNPs.  The lab also mentioned these were found in an area of the chromosome which had not been tested for this before.  So the results earlier from our participants in Walk through the Y are probably not useful in detecting their status for these.
      Update on King Louis XVI Purported Haplogroup G sample.  It was reported earlier that Mr. Doick matched this sample in 11 of 12 marker values.  He has since obtained three additional markers tested in the other sample, and he fails to match any of them, including one that in the Louis sample is a rare, extreme value.  So we will have to continue looking for someone who is a relatively close match to the research sample.
      Emperor Napoleon I DNA Sample.  Ted Kandell reports that the researcher studying this sample has indicated that it is not Haplogroup G, but the actual results were not disclosed because the researcher is awaiting publication of his findings. 
      L177 Group (G2a3b2) Bigger Than Thought.  Initially this SNP was found in the Athey family and it seemed confined to it, but re-evaluation by the lab showed it was present beyond that family.  Since then, several other persons have tested positive.  And in taking a closer look, I noticed that there is actually a whole group rather close genetically to Mr. Wright, one of the men who tested positive for this. Several of the men have origins in Ireland, which is prominent in the Athey family.  Because one cannot predict who else may belong to this group, all persons both L141+ and P303- should test for L177.
      Family Tree Completes the Launch of New Pages for Administrators/Public Display Changes.  Family Tree DNA provides a special page for administrators.  This allows computing genetic distance of samples, listings of reported tests, and other features.  For months they have been working on a beta version of a replacement.  This has caused some problems, and the old system is now fully replaced. They have also replaced the public interface pages dealing with projects.  The G project has revised its links to accommodate this. One new feature putting the Google map on a separate page without constraining window boundaries is a welcome new feature.  In addition, the roster of members generated by Family Tree can be seen either in the usual manner or in one in which statistical analyses of each subgroup (the so-called colorized version) are provided. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/G-YDNA/default.aspx  in the Y-DNA results section.  Because this will only display 200 name initially, one has to enter 2500 and hit enter to see all the samples on one page. Perhaps the programmers will now be able to work on some other areas which have been of concern to all of us, but regretfully all I see listed for future projects is fiddling with the contents of the individual results page.
      New G SNP.  Family Tree has assigned L382 as a new haplo G SNP.  This one has actually been hiding in plain sight, but Adriano who maintains a spreadsheet of SNP results from 23andMe did not colorize these results to show G persons had different results.  While all the G persons tested at 23andMe had different results from non-G persons, it will be necessary for Family Tree to do hands-on testing of this because the automated test at 23andMe has not always provided useful results. And because it seems confined to G* persons (those G persons negative for both subgroups) and because we have no one in that category, L382 does not presently have any practical value.
      Future of Walk Through the Y Project.  Whit Athey who attended the group administrators meeting in Houston last weekend reports they are considering making upgrades available for old participants to cover additional promising areas of the chromosome as identified in research studies.  Also he indicates the lab has a new employee who is making primers for some other promising G tests, mentioning, in particular, a STR marker which has some complicated results in G persons.  Thomas Krahn who heads the Genetic Research Center of Family Tree has made his slides from the Houston conference available on-line http://www.dna-fingerprint.com/static/FTDNA-Conference-2010-WalkThroughY.pdf  This focuses on the 178 participants in the Walk through the Y Project.  You will note that Haplogroup G results are highlighted in the lecture and touted as a major success story.
      Thanks to B.F. for a contribution to the General Fund.
      Display on Project Pages.  A minor milestone.  Ever since the editing system for the text on the Haplogroup G project pages was obtained, there has been a problem with the text wrapping and losing formatting when large text size or a small window was used.  Finally this week someone provided instructions how to correct his, and the pages should display in a normal manner for all users now -- for the important pages, at least.  Correcting this problem is important for the comprehensive human categorization project I have been working on because a very wide screen is desirable.
      Novel Idea on How to Make Y-Search Work for You.   It is possible that Family Tree will alter Y-Search at some time in the future, but presently there are several major problems.  One of these problems relates to persons who have tested more than 67 markers or where there are lots of near matches at 67 markers.  The problem is caused by their system ending the number of names to display when a certain maximum is reached.  Thus those with lots of markers cannot then see possible matches who have only 37 markers or 12 markers because the listing ended before getting to them.
      I noticed that one man in Haplogroup G has resolved this problem by creating new samples in Y-Search.  After each surname he lists the number 67 or 37 or 12.    Now when he searches for each one of these the nearest matches at each of these marker lengths will show.  It is important to use Create a New User function 
      rather than going through one's results page.  This is the only way this can be done.  In addition, it is critical to carefully recheck that the correct values are entered and matched with the correct markers.
      Project Size.  The latest comparisons show the G Project continues to be one of the largest though it is one of the smaller haplogroups in the world
      Project sizes
      I1 Y-DNA...........2,867
      G Y-DNA............2,008
      Recent General DNA and Archeological News
      The most recent population genetics studies summarized at Dienekes blog:
      include these items [with posted comments]:
                      (1) See the article above pertaining to the German ancient DNA skeletons 
                      (2) There is a new study on Y-DNA in Brabant -- mostly Belgium -- and for the first
                             time they tested 37 markers and 107 SNPs -- so finally we have detailed testing in a
                             Y-DNA study.
                     Nothing of interest found.
      Recent Changes within the Haplo G Project
      The project welcomed the following men with these surnames and ancestral countries since the last newsletter (listed with their likeliest G category):
      Metelko, Slovakia -- G2a3b1a DYS388=13 Subgrp Unclassified Type
      Rasho, Iraq (Assyrian) -- G1a Diverse Type
      Kedes, Belarus -- G1 DYS446-13 Subgrp
      Pritchard, Wales -- G2a3b1a DYS388=13 Subgrp Nonclustering Type
      Panto, N. Greece -- G2a3b1a DYS388=13 Main Cluster Subcluster 4
      McPherson, Scotland -- G2a3b1a DYS388=13 Main Cluster
      The General Fund
      Donations of $5 or more to the general fund providing money for help in testing key samples are most welcome and can be handled in the following manner:
      The donor links to
      There are instructions there for making the contribution by choosing the G Haplogroup Fund. Choose G, and a list of G items will appear.  Then choose Haplogroup_G which is at the very top of the list.  Payment can be made either by PayPal or credit card.

      Ray Banks

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