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Re: [HOn3] Railline flat car.

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  • Bruce Petrarca
    Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC Learn more about DCC at http://www.MrDCCU.com ... Not without a lot of work. Easier to scratch build.
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 1, 2013
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      Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC

      Learn more about DCC at http://www.MrDCCU.com

      "Jeff" <narrowgauge461@...> wrote:
      > Can a Railline 6700 series idler flat be built into a 6000 series flat?

      Not without a lot of work. Easier to scratch build.
    • John Stutz
      Jeff I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars. Note that both the Grandt
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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        Jeff

        I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to
        look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars.

        Note that both the Grandt kit and any styrene scratch built truss rod flat will
        need reinforcing to prevent its bowing up, if you use the recommended tight
        nylon monofiliment truss rods. A couple lengths of code 55 rail glued
        underneath the deck will go far to prevent this. The brass plate construction
        that Jim has documented is a better choice, providing much needed wight, but
        needs to be designed in from the start. Wooden model car frames are stiffer,
        but still benefit from either form of reinforcement.

        If you want to model a truss rod flat car produced by cutting down a box or
        stock car, it is just a matter of adding a set of stake pockets to the Railline
        kit. This kit models D&RGW cars that were cut down for idlers, so they did not
        need stake pockets. But the C&S had at least one such conversion, of a steel
        underframe house car, which was fitted with a full set of pockets for use as a
        flat or coal car. There is a photo in the NG Pictorial on C&S cars.

        Detail points: Most wood underframe flats had a set of pockets on the
        intermediate sills, in line with the end pockets on each side, to support stakes
        for a temporary bulkhead. These are rarely modeled, but can be done with a
        square hole through the deck, watching out for wheel clearances. It is a good
        idea to put two of the side pockets directly over the needle beams, allowing
        longer stakes to be braced against the beam ends. Also, wooden house cars
        depend on trusses in the side framing to partially support their load. This is
        why the D&RGW 6700 flats were reinforced with rail. For conversion to a
        regular flat car, such rail should probably go under the side sill rather than
        on the deck.

        John Stutz

        On 04/02/2013 12:20 AM, Jim Vail wrote:
        > That would be a tough project - much more difficult than scratch
        > building the correct car!
        >
        > > On 04/01/2013 02:52 PM, Jeff wrote:
        > > Can a Railline 6700 series idler flat be built into a 6000 series flat?
      • d_rg_br
        I agree with both Jim and John, it depends on if you want to scratchbuild the cars. A styrene chassis with Grant Line details and pre-bent brass truss rods
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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          I agree with both Jim and John, it depends on if you want to scratchbuild the cars. A styrene chassis with Grant Line details and pre-bent brass truss rods will avoid deforming the chassis. Grandt
          still offers everything you´ll need for detailing. Sloan´s
          100+10 will give you the necessary dimensions.

          MCG de Oliveira


          --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, John Stutz <John.C.Stutz@...> wrote:
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          > I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to
          > look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars.
          >

          > John Stutz
          >
        • Rio Grande Ltd
          you might want to get a Rio Grande Models idler flat for either the pile driver OB or derrick IO. both are 6000 flats. #3025 comes with Black stone trucks.
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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            you might want to get a Rio Grande Models idler flat for either the pile driver OB or derrick IO. both are 6000 flats.
            #3025 comes with Black stone trucks.


            eric







            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Stutz <John.C.Stutz@...>
            To: HOn3 <HOn3@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 11:21 am
            Subject: Re: [HOn3] Railline flat car.


            Jeff

            I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to
            look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars.

            Note that both the Grandt kit and any styrene scratch built truss rod flat will
            need reinforcing to prevent its bowing up, if you use the recommended tight
            nylon monofiliment truss rods. A couple lengths of code 55 rail glued
            underneath the deck will go far to prevent this. The brass plate construction
            that Jim has documented is a better choice, providing much needed wight, but
            needs to be designed in from the start. Wooden model car frames are stiffer,
            but still benefit from either form of reinforcement.

            If you want to model a truss rod flat car produced by cutting down a box or
            stock car, it is just a matter of adding a set of stake pockets to the Railline
            kit. This kit models D&RGW cars that were cut down for idlers, so they did not
            need stake pockets. But the C&S had at least one such conversion, of a steel
            underframe house car, which was fitted with a full set of pockets for use as a
            flat or coal car. There is a photo in the NG Pictorial on C&S cars.

            Detail points: Most wood underframe flats had a set of pockets on the
            intermediate sills, in line with the end pockets on each side, to support stakes

            for a temporary bulkhead. These are rarely modeled, but can be done with a
            square hole through the deck, watching out for wheel clearances. It is a good
            idea to put two of the side pockets directly over the needle beams, allowing
            longer stakes to be braced against the beam ends. Also, wooden house cars
            depend on trusses in the side framing to partially support their load. This is
            why the D&RGW 6700 flats were reinforced with rail. For conversion to a
            regular flat car, such rail should probably go under the side sill rather than
            on the deck.

            John Stutz

            On 04/02/2013 12:20 AM, Jim Vail wrote:
            > That would be a tough project - much more difficult than scratch
            > building the correct car!
            >
            > > On 04/01/2013 02:52 PM, Jeff wrote:
            > > Can a Railline 6700 series idler flat be built into a 6000 series flat?


            ------------------------------------

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          • Jeff
            Thanks Jim, John and others. I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars. Blackstone flats are getting harder to come by. I was curious if it could be
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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              Thanks Jim, John and others.

              I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars. Blackstone flats are getting harder to come by. I was curious if it could be done, having not seen one of the Rail Line kits in person.

              I like the idea of using a Rail Line box or stock car kit as a start for a bash.
              I want to have several flats with fresh cut lumber on them, such as seen on the southern end of the RGS.
            • Richard Brennan
              At 06:28 PM 4/2/2013, Jeff wrote: ... Micro-Trains HOn3 flats??? Could be less (in terms of both model and cost) than a Grandt kit... but I hear rumors
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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                At 06:28 PM 4/2/2013, Jeff wrote:
                <snip>
                >I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars. Blackstone flats
                >are getting harder to come by.

                Micro-Trains HOn3 flats???
                Could be less (in terms of both model and cost) than a Grandt kit...
                but I hear rumors their production is fading away. YMMV

                --------------------
                Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
                --------------------
              • Jim Vail
                Jeff - Using a boxcar or a stock car as the start for a flat car is still a lot more work than simply scratch building a flat car from the beginning. Flat cars
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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                  Jeff -

                  Using a boxcar or a stock car as the start for a flat car is still a lot
                  more work than simply scratch building a flat car from the beginning.
                  Flat cars are about as simple as it gets. You could build them 4 or 6
                  at a time. My article in the 2012 HOn3 Annual shows the basics of
                  scratch building a flat car. The 34' cars in my article were oddballs,
                  but the basics, the book references, and the Grandt Line part numbers
                  are all applicable to scratch building more common flat cars.

                  Jim Vail

                  >
                  > I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars.
                  >
                  > I like the idea of using a Rail Line box or stock car kit as a start
                  > for a bash.
                  >
                  >
                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwNTVlaWU2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0MTI3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDcEbXNnSWQDODI0MjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY1MDI3Mzgy?act=reply&messageNum=82426>
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                • Jeff
                  Thanks to all. Now for some background. I wanted to ask because I had not seen a Rail Line flat kit my self, and I was not sure how different a 6000 series was
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 4, 2013
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                    Thanks to all.

                    Now for some background. I wanted to ask because I had not seen a Rail Line flat kit my self, and I was not sure how different a 6000 series was from a 6700. I have a copy of the "Century plus 10" book but I loaned it to a friend so I could not look it up.

                    Today I went to my friends and looked at the book. He also had a Rail Line flat kit. Now I can see the difference. Had i known that the 6700 were built from box and stock cars I would have thought different. How ever after looking at the RL kit next to my BS 6000 flat I can see that the RL kit is slightly wider. To me It would seem that I could build a close replica of a 6000 flat, it would just be about 6"-7" to wide.

                    How ever I Agree that to do it right I will just have to build one myself.
                    Jim Thank you, I forgot I had the HOn3 annual with your article on your flat car build. I read it today, and I think Ill go the way you did. But I will be building 6000 flats.
                    Question did you use bass wood?
                    Also if you built one to run without a load how would you way it down?
                  • Jim Vail
                    Jeff - Yes, I used basswood for those flat cars - just seemed to be what I was into at the moment. Certainly using dimensional styrene pieces for the frame
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 5, 2013
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                      Jeff -
                      Yes, I used basswood for those flat cars - just seemed to be what I was
                      "into" at the moment. Certainly using dimensional styrene pieces for
                      the frame would also be very viable - but I personally would still use
                      wood for the deck - it can be distressed and realistically weathered so
                      much easier.

                      And the big question - how to weight an unloaded flat car - the big
                      problem no matter what materials you are building width. I've had the
                      best luck starting with a 1/16" flat piece of K&S brass and building the
                      frame and deck around it. Of course the floor assembly will be thicker
                      than the prototype and I have ignored that by using thinner than
                      prototype center and intermediate beams. I did an article on these flat
                      cars way back in the Gazette and it may be the May/June 1988 issue. (I
                      haven't verified that by looking at my old issue.) The web site I use
                      to look up old Gazette article listings is
                      http://www.wisemanmodelservices.com/gazette/
                      (The list said On3 flat cars but I think that's the one!) You should be
                      able to get an old issue from a dealer or possibly from benchmark Publishing

                      So, good luck on your cars and let me know if you need any more info.

                      Jim Vail
                      >
                      >
                      > Jim Thank you, I forgot I had the HOn3 annual with your article on
                      > your flat car build. I read it today, and I think Ill go the way you
                      > did. But I will be building 6000 flats.
                      > Question did you use bass wood?
                      > Also if you built one to run without a load how would you way it down?
                      >
                      >
                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcHRwaGppBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0MTI3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDcEbXNnSWQDODI0ODAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY1MTQwNTA1?act=reply&messageNum=82480>
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