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Re: [HOn3] Railline flat car.

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  • Bruce Petrarca
    Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC Learn more about DCC at http://www.MrDCCU.com ... Not without a lot of work. Easier to scratch build.
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 1, 2013
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      Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC

      Learn more about DCC at http://www.MrDCCU.com

      "Jeff" <narrowgauge461@...> wrote:
      > Can a Railline 6700 series idler flat be built into a 6000 series flat?

      Not without a lot of work. Easier to scratch build.
    • Jim Vail
      That would be a tough project - much more difficult than scratch building the correct car! Jim Vail ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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        That would be a tough project - much more difficult than scratch
        building the correct car!

        Jim Vail
        >
        > Can a Railline 6700 series idler flat be built into a 6000 series flat?
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        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwbWg0OWFhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0MTI3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDcEbXNnSWQDODI0MDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY0ODYyNDM5?act=reply&messageNum=82408>
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      • John Stutz
        Jeff I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars. Note that both the Grandt
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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          Jeff

          I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to
          look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars.

          Note that both the Grandt kit and any styrene scratch built truss rod flat will
          need reinforcing to prevent its bowing up, if you use the recommended tight
          nylon monofiliment truss rods. A couple lengths of code 55 rail glued
          underneath the deck will go far to prevent this. The brass plate construction
          that Jim has documented is a better choice, providing much needed wight, but
          needs to be designed in from the start. Wooden model car frames are stiffer,
          but still benefit from either form of reinforcement.

          If you want to model a truss rod flat car produced by cutting down a box or
          stock car, it is just a matter of adding a set of stake pockets to the Railline
          kit. This kit models D&RGW cars that were cut down for idlers, so they did not
          need stake pockets. But the C&S had at least one such conversion, of a steel
          underframe house car, which was fitted with a full set of pockets for use as a
          flat or coal car. There is a photo in the NG Pictorial on C&S cars.

          Detail points: Most wood underframe flats had a set of pockets on the
          intermediate sills, in line with the end pockets on each side, to support stakes
          for a temporary bulkhead. These are rarely modeled, but can be done with a
          square hole through the deck, watching out for wheel clearances. It is a good
          idea to put two of the side pockets directly over the needle beams, allowing
          longer stakes to be braced against the beam ends. Also, wooden house cars
          depend on trusses in the side framing to partially support their load. This is
          why the D&RGW 6700 flats were reinforced with rail. For conversion to a
          regular flat car, such rail should probably go under the side sill rather than
          on the deck.

          John Stutz

          On 04/02/2013 12:20 AM, Jim Vail wrote:
          > That would be a tough project - much more difficult than scratch
          > building the correct car!
          >
          > > On 04/01/2013 02:52 PM, Jeff wrote:
          > > Can a Railline 6700 series idler flat be built into a 6000 series flat?
        • d_rg_br
          I agree with both Jim and John, it depends on if you want to scratchbuild the cars. A styrene chassis with Grant Line details and pre-bent brass truss rods
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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            I agree with both Jim and John, it depends on if you want to scratchbuild the cars. A styrene chassis with Grant Line details and pre-bent brass truss rods will avoid deforming the chassis. Grandt
            still offers everything you´ll need for detailing. Sloan´s
            100+10 will give you the necessary dimensions.

            MCG de Oliveira


            --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, John Stutz <John.C.Stutz@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            > I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to
            > look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars.
            >

            > John Stutz
            >
          • Rio Grande Ltd
            you might want to get a Rio Grande Models idler flat for either the pile driver OB or derrick IO. both are 6000 flats. #3025 comes with Black stone trucks.
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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              you might want to get a Rio Grande Models idler flat for either the pile driver OB or derrick IO. both are 6000 flats.
              #3025 comes with Black stone trucks.


              eric







              -----Original Message-----
              From: John Stutz <John.C.Stutz@...>
              To: HOn3 <HOn3@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 11:21 am
              Subject: Re: [HOn3] Railline flat car.


              Jeff

              I agree with Jim regarding conversion to a D&RGW 6000 flat. You might want to
              look for the old Grandt line kit for these cars.

              Note that both the Grandt kit and any styrene scratch built truss rod flat will
              need reinforcing to prevent its bowing up, if you use the recommended tight
              nylon monofiliment truss rods. A couple lengths of code 55 rail glued
              underneath the deck will go far to prevent this. The brass plate construction
              that Jim has documented is a better choice, providing much needed wight, but
              needs to be designed in from the start. Wooden model car frames are stiffer,
              but still benefit from either form of reinforcement.

              If you want to model a truss rod flat car produced by cutting down a box or
              stock car, it is just a matter of adding a set of stake pockets to the Railline
              kit. This kit models D&RGW cars that were cut down for idlers, so they did not
              need stake pockets. But the C&S had at least one such conversion, of a steel
              underframe house car, which was fitted with a full set of pockets for use as a
              flat or coal car. There is a photo in the NG Pictorial on C&S cars.

              Detail points: Most wood underframe flats had a set of pockets on the
              intermediate sills, in line with the end pockets on each side, to support stakes

              for a temporary bulkhead. These are rarely modeled, but can be done with a
              square hole through the deck, watching out for wheel clearances. It is a good
              idea to put two of the side pockets directly over the needle beams, allowing
              longer stakes to be braced against the beam ends. Also, wooden house cars
              depend on trusses in the side framing to partially support their load. This is
              why the D&RGW 6700 flats were reinforced with rail. For conversion to a
              regular flat car, such rail should probably go under the side sill rather than
              on the deck.

              John Stutz

              On 04/02/2013 12:20 AM, Jim Vail wrote:
              > That would be a tough project - much more difficult than scratch
              > building the correct car!
              >
              > > On 04/01/2013 02:52 PM, Jeff wrote:
              > > Can a Railline 6700 series idler flat be built into a 6000 series flat?


              ------------------------------------

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jeff
              Thanks Jim, John and others. I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars. Blackstone flats are getting harder to come by. I was curious if it could be
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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                Thanks Jim, John and others.

                I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars. Blackstone flats are getting harder to come by. I was curious if it could be done, having not seen one of the Rail Line kits in person.

                I like the idea of using a Rail Line box or stock car kit as a start for a bash.
                I want to have several flats with fresh cut lumber on them, such as seen on the southern end of the RGS.
              • Richard Brennan
                At 06:28 PM 4/2/2013, Jeff wrote: ... Micro-Trains HOn3 flats??? Could be less (in terms of both model and cost) than a Grandt kit... but I hear rumors
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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                  At 06:28 PM 4/2/2013, Jeff wrote:
                  <snip>
                  >I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars. Blackstone flats
                  >are getting harder to come by.

                  Micro-Trains HOn3 flats???
                  Could be less (in terms of both model and cost) than a Grandt kit...
                  but I hear rumors their production is fading away. YMMV

                  --------------------
                  Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
                  --------------------
                • Jim Vail
                  Jeff - Using a boxcar or a stock car as the start for a flat car is still a lot more work than simply scratch building a flat car from the beginning. Flat cars
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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                    Jeff -

                    Using a boxcar or a stock car as the start for a flat car is still a lot
                    more work than simply scratch building a flat car from the beginning.
                    Flat cars are about as simple as it gets. You could build them 4 or 6
                    at a time. My article in the 2012 HOn3 Annual shows the basics of
                    scratch building a flat car. The 34' cars in my article were oddballs,
                    but the basics, the book references, and the Grandt Line part numbers
                    are all applicable to scratch building more common flat cars.

                    Jim Vail

                    >
                    > I was looking for a cheaper way to get flat cars.
                    >
                    > I like the idea of using a Rail Line box or stock car kit as a start
                    > for a bash.
                    >
                    >
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwNTVlaWU2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0MTI3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDcEbXNnSWQDODI0MjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY1MDI3Mzgy?act=reply&messageNum=82426>
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                  • Jeff
                    Thanks to all. Now for some background. I wanted to ask because I had not seen a Rail Line flat kit my self, and I was not sure how different a 6000 series was
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 4, 2013
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                      Thanks to all.

                      Now for some background. I wanted to ask because I had not seen a Rail Line flat kit my self, and I was not sure how different a 6000 series was from a 6700. I have a copy of the "Century plus 10" book but I loaned it to a friend so I could not look it up.

                      Today I went to my friends and looked at the book. He also had a Rail Line flat kit. Now I can see the difference. Had i known that the 6700 were built from box and stock cars I would have thought different. How ever after looking at the RL kit next to my BS 6000 flat I can see that the RL kit is slightly wider. To me It would seem that I could build a close replica of a 6000 flat, it would just be about 6"-7" to wide.

                      How ever I Agree that to do it right I will just have to build one myself.
                      Jim Thank you, I forgot I had the HOn3 annual with your article on your flat car build. I read it today, and I think Ill go the way you did. But I will be building 6000 flats.
                      Question did you use bass wood?
                      Also if you built one to run without a load how would you way it down?
                    • Jim Vail
                      Jeff - Yes, I used basswood for those flat cars - just seemed to be what I was into at the moment. Certainly using dimensional styrene pieces for the frame
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 5, 2013
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                        Jeff -
                        Yes, I used basswood for those flat cars - just seemed to be what I was
                        "into" at the moment. Certainly using dimensional styrene pieces for
                        the frame would also be very viable - but I personally would still use
                        wood for the deck - it can be distressed and realistically weathered so
                        much easier.

                        And the big question - how to weight an unloaded flat car - the big
                        problem no matter what materials you are building width. I've had the
                        best luck starting with a 1/16" flat piece of K&S brass and building the
                        frame and deck around it. Of course the floor assembly will be thicker
                        than the prototype and I have ignored that by using thinner than
                        prototype center and intermediate beams. I did an article on these flat
                        cars way back in the Gazette and it may be the May/June 1988 issue. (I
                        haven't verified that by looking at my old issue.) The web site I use
                        to look up old Gazette article listings is
                        http://www.wisemanmodelservices.com/gazette/
                        (The list said On3 flat cars but I think that's the one!) You should be
                        able to get an old issue from a dealer or possibly from benchmark Publishing

                        So, good luck on your cars and let me know if you need any more info.

                        Jim Vail
                        >
                        >
                        > Jim Thank you, I forgot I had the HOn3 annual with your article on
                        > your flat car build. I read it today, and I think Ill go the way you
                        > did. But I will be building 6000 flats.
                        > Question did you use bass wood?
                        > Also if you built one to run without a load how would you way it down?
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcHRwaGppBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0MTI3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDcEbXNnSWQDODI0ODAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY1MTQwNTA1?act=reply&messageNum=82480>
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