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Re: drop bottom gondola (Ash Pit)

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  • Hart Corbett
    This thread now has morphed in discussion of ash pits, hence the slight change in subject title. Blayne, the photo which Jerry Day posted originally was to
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 19, 2013
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      This thread now has morphed in discussion of ash pits, hence the slight change in subject title.

      Blayne, the photo which Jerry Day posted originally was to show the character of locomotive ashes. The camera angle was such that a first time viewer would have a bit of trouble determining the geometry of the Chama ash pit. You probably have not been there; I've been in and out of Chama a number of times over the last 40 years so I knew what it was like. Fortunately, Jerry's other recently posted photos make it easy to see the site in 3 dimensions. The men who did the ash shoveling into the DB gondola had to stand on that narrow ledge of the pit in order to get the ashes into the gondola. The shape of the pile in the gondola is a result of this. There definitely is no room between the gon and the retaining wall below the pit. Shoveling probably had to be done often because the pit is so shallow.

      Compare the Chama ash pit with the old Durango Yard pit. In one of my other posts on this thread, I mentioned my 34 Durango Yard color photos of 1960 in a Picasa album. Some of those photos show the Durango ash pit setup from a distance but only one shows it looking down into it. Originally, I took most of the 34 photos for my own modeling purposes but have made them all available to other modelers for their modeling purposes by posting them on Picasa. Most posted photos are around 6 in. by 8 in. and 140 to 150 dpi, large enough for private use. They can be downloaded for personal purposes as I explained to Blayne in an off-List post.

      Here are some direct links to ash pit related photos:

      (1) Looking into pit from above:

      https://picasaweb.google.com/111099367172613506788/DRGWDURANGOYARDJULY1960#5502871498556613906

      (2) Engine 476 stopped over pit, from a distance with ash filled drop bottom gondolas (in photo above) at right, partly down in pit):

      https://picasaweb.google.com/111099367172613506788/DRGWDURANGOYARDJULY1960#5502837823483749330

      (3) Engine 495 stopped over ash pit:

      https://picasaweb.google.com/111099367172613506788/DRGWDURANGOYARDJULY1960#5508000303635594802

      (4) Distant view north from south end of Yards. Ash pit and drop bottom gondolas can be seen just to the left of the coaling track that runs past the coaling tower, and are slightly closer to the camera:

      https://picasaweb.google.com/111099367172613506788/DRGWDURANGOYARDJULY1960#5502471053347128594

      (5) Link to the whole Picasa Album with my 34 photos (the link also in listed in the Links section of this List's home website):

      https://picasaweb.google.com/111099367172613506788/DRGWDURANGOYARDJULY1960#5502471053347128594

      With best regards, Hart
    • Jerry Day
      The D&RGW cinder-ash pits in the smaller terminals were normally shoveled by hand into gondola on depressed tracks. This was true of both narrow gauge and
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 19, 2013
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        The D&RGW cinder-ash pits in the smaller terminals were normally shoveled by hand into gondola on depressed tracks. This was true of both narrow gauge and standard gauge terminals.

        At the larger terminals, the cinder-ash pits were often equipped with electric or steam powered lifts. The one at Salida had a conveyor under a standard gauge track and a dual gauge track. The device dumped into either narrow gauge or standard gauge gons.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/photos/album/1962106790/pic/list

        I have attached photos of the Durango, Gunnison, Chama, and Salida pits. Note the shovel on the side of the drop bottom gon at Chama.

        Jerry Day
      • Barry Hopwood
        Jerry,     Any idea whether the ash pit at Alamosa had an electric conveyor of any kind or was it manual labor?      Thanks.   Barry Hopwood Allen, Tx
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 19, 2013
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          Jerry,
           
            Any idea whether the ash pit at Alamosa had an electric conveyor of any kind or was it manual labor?
           
             Thanks.
           
          Barry Hopwood
          Allen, Tx

          --- On Tue, 3/19/13, Jerry Day <jerry474@...> wrote:


          From: Jerry Day <jerry474@...>
          Subject: [HOn3] Ash Pit
          To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, March 19, 2013, 9:50 PM



           



          The D&RGW cinder-ash pits in the smaller terminals were normally shoveled by hand into gondola on depressed tracks. This was true of both narrow gauge and standard gauge terminals.

          At the larger terminals, the cinder-ash pits were often equipped with electric or steam powered lifts. The one at Salida had a conveyor under a standard gauge track and a dual gauge track. The device dumped into either narrow gauge or standard gauge gons.

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/photos/album/1962106790/pic/list

          I have attached photos of the Durango, Gunnison, Chama, and Salida pits. Note the shovel on the side of the drop bottom gon at Chama.

          Jerry Day








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jerry Day
          ... Earlier it had two manual pits...one narrow gauge and one standard gauge. I do not know what it had later. As the largest D&RGW standard gauge power (3600
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 19, 2013
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            --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Barry Hopwood <blhopwood@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jerry,
            >  
            >   Any idea whether the ash pit at Alamosa had an electric conveyor of any kind or was it manual labor?
            >  
            >    Thanks.
            >  
            > Barry Hopwood
            > Allen, Tx
            >
            Earlier it had two manual pits...one narrow gauge and one standard gauge. I do not know what it had later. As the largest D&RGW standard gauge power (3600 2-8-8-2s) were used there, I am assuming it was a powered system. I have no photos of it.

            Jerry Day
          • David Barron
            Jerry, that brings up a good point. How much ash and klinkers would a 2-8-8-2 have in it to be dumped anyway? It must have been hundreds of pounds of the
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 19, 2013
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              Jerry, that brings up a good point. How much ash and klinkers would a
              2-8-8-2 have in it to be dumped anyway? It must have been hundreds of
              pounds of the dusty mess which probably is one of the reasons they went to
              oil fired steam.
              Dave

              Earlier it had two manual pits...one narrow gauge and one standard gauge. I
              do not know what it had later. As the largest D&RGW standard gauge power
              (3600 2-8-8-2s) were used there, I am assuming it was a powered system. I
              have no photos of it.

              Jerry Day
            • Barry Hopwood
              Jerry,      Thanks, I very much appreciate the information!   Barry Hopwood Allen, Tx ... From: Jerry Day jerry474@comcast.net   Earlier it had two manual
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 19, 2013
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                Jerry,
                 
                   Thanks, I very much appreciate the information!
                 
                Barry Hopwood
                Allen, Tx

                --- On Tue, 3/19/13, Jerry Day <jerry474@...> wrote:



                From: Jerry Day jerry474@...

                 





                Earlier it had two manual pits...one narrow gauge and one standard gauge. I do not know what it had later. As the largest D&RGW standard gauge power (3600 2-8-8-2s) were used there, I am assuming it was a powered system. I have no photos of it.

                Jerry Day








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jerry Day
                ... I have no idea. The D&RGW never had oil fired steam locomotives. Jerry Day
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 19, 2013
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                  --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "David Barron" <climax@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jerry, that brings up a good point. How much ash and klinkers would a
                  > 2-8-8-2 have in it to be dumped anyway? It must have been hundreds of
                  > pounds of the dusty mess which probably is one of the reasons they went to
                  > oil fired steam.
                  > Dave

                  I have no idea. The D&RGW never had oil fired steam locomotives.

                  Jerry Day
                • John Stutz
                  ... Fire cleaning was a constant problem with coal burning locomotives, and especially so with coals that tend to clinker and plug the air flow. Engine
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 20, 2013
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                    On 03/19/2013 07:50 PM, Jerry Day wrote:
                    > The D&RGW cinder-ash pits in the smaller terminals were normally shoveled by
                    > hand into gondola on depressed tracks. This was true of both narrow gauge and
                    > standard gauge terminals.
                    > .....
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/photos/album/1962106790/pic/list
                    >
                    > I have attached photos of the Durango, Gunnison, Chama, and Salida pits. Note
                    > the shovel on the side of the drop bottom gon at Chama.

                    Fire cleaning was a constant problem with coal burning locomotives, and
                    especially so with coals that tend to clinker and plug the air flow. Engine
                    terminal servicing always required fire cleaning, hence the ubiquitous terminal
                    ash pits, but fire cleaning could be required after any stretch of hard
                    steaming. It might be informative to inquire how the Silverton and the Cumbres
                    and Toltec handle the problem. Can a locomotive get to Silverton and back
                    without cleaning the fire? I doubt it, but don't know where or how they do it.
                    Does anyone know?

                    As an example of a consequence of frequent fire cleaning away from terminals:
                    The Chile Line grade south of Taos Junction is now used by Forrest Road 652.
                    Barranca hill, north from Embudo to the canyon rim, required very heavy
                    steaming. Barranca station was about a half mile north of the rim. There is
                    nothing there now but the almost invisible trace of a wye, but the site is still
                    well marked by the gray ash mixed into the road surface, which everywhere else
                    is the natural earthen tan. Might be a detail worth modeling.

                    John Stutz
                  • Dunlevy, Bruce
                    John, In 2007, the D&S installed a new ash pit in Silverton. See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/53177163@N00/483335567/in/photostream/ for pictures. Bruce
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 20, 2013
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                      John,

                      In 2007, the D&S installed a new ash pit in Silverton. See:

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/53177163@N00/483335567/in/photostream/

                      for pictures.

                      Bruce Dunlevy
                    • hwcwsl
                      Jerry, I just checked my B&W photos of the Alamosa Yards from early April 1962. Quite a few photos but I did not get the ash pit setup, not even in the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 20, 2013
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                        Jerry, I just checked my B&W photos of the Alamosa Yards from early April 1962. Quite a few photos but I did not get the ash pit setup, not even in the background of any of the photos.

                        With best regards, Hart
                        ______________________________________________

                        --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Day" <jerry474@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Barry Hopwood <blhopwood@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Jerry,
                        > >  
                        > >   Any idea whether the ash pit at Alamosa had an electric conveyor of any kind or was it manual labor?
                        > >  
                        > >    Thanks.
                        > >  
                        > > Barry Hopwood
                        > > Allen, Tx
                        > >
                        > Earlier it had two manual pits...one narrow gauge and one standard gauge. I do not know what it had later. As the largest D&RGW standard gauge power (3600 2-8-8-2s) were used there, I am assuming it was a powered system. I have no photos of it.
                        >
                        > Jerry Day
                        >
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