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Re: PSC D&RGW C-19 problem

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  • Mark
    John, Good analysis of Neolube when it goes wrong, trouble is it makes driving gear look just like it should so it s tempting to use. I ve seen the short just
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 4, 2012
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      John,
      Good analysis of Neolube when it goes wrong, trouble is it makes driving gear look just like it should so it's tempting to use. I've seen the short just as you and John aka Toad describe it. I'd not heard of substituting the insulation layer between the centre of the driver and the tyre as Toad suggests. But I know our mutual good friend Mick Moignard has performed the ultimate operation of pulling the tyre off and fixing it.
      Good point too about acrylic paint and alcohol. Instead of the usual decal setting lotion I once used out of the can denatured alcohol. The decal was softened but so was the paint and some of the color was bleached out of it - this was reefer yellow. Weathering covered up the worst of it but it was a learning curve.

      Mark K (not Mike BTW!)
      Durango CO.


      > Be gentle with alcohol if you
      > suspect acrylic paint is present.
      >
      > John Stutz
      >
    • kschw80232
      I opened it up and cleaned the drivers. I also dosconnected the headlight to remove that from the equation. I was able to run the engine smoothly for many laps
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 4, 2012
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        I opened it up and cleaned the drivers. I also dosconnected the headlight to remove that from the equation. I was able to run the engine smoothly for many laps but it still runs slowly without much power. The ammeter on my power pack shows a hair over 1/4 amp. The motor appears to be an original small can type with a rubber tube drive to the gear drive. Replacing the motor looks tight since it is attached at the back to a sprung bracket which means the new motor would have a limited length.
      • JOHN SPRATLEY
        Hi Kent, Sounds like you may have a Faulty motor. If it`s a round can, it could be an old Sagami. Good motors, but almost impossible to replace the brush gear
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 5, 2012
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          Hi Kent, Sounds like you may have a Faulty motor. If it`s a round can, it could be an old Sagami. Good
          motors, but almost impossible to replace the brush gear when it wears out. There are several sources for up to date

          replacements, on line but you need to measure the can length, diameter and shaft dia and length( though length can be

          trimmed to suit). The rubber tube coupling between the Motor and gear box may be a problem, if old and stiff,
          they can absorb a lot of power at low speeds. Replace with NWSL UJ couplings if possible. Hope this Helps
          John.Therailtoad.
        • Jim Vail
          A current draw of 1/4 amp sounds very high. I have a late run PSC C-19, and also their C-21 and new C-16 - all these locos had very cheap whimpy motors that
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 5, 2012
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            A current draw of 1/4 amp sounds very high. I have a late run PSC C-19,
            and also their C-21 and new C-16 - all these locos had very cheap
            "whimpy" motors that could hardly pull themselves along, but mine run at
            a much lower current! They are good looking, super detailed engines,
            but I've pretty much given up on running them. Mine had many shorts in
            the mechanism when I first got them, and I would guess this could have
            caused the shorting you saw.

            Jim Vail

            On 9/4/2012 9:04 PM, kschw80232 wrote:
            >
            > I opened it up and cleaned the drivers. I also dosconnected the
            > headlight to remove that from the equation. I was able to run the
            > engine smoothly for many laps but it still runs slowly without much
            > power. The ammeter on my power pack shows a hair over 1/4 amp. The
            > motor appears to be an original small can type with a rubber tube
            > drive to the gear drive. Replacing the motor looks tight since it is
            > attached at the back to a sprung bracket which means the new motor
            > would have a limited length.
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kschw80232
            The motor is flat on the sides with round top and bottom. It measures 10.5 mm wide x 12.3 high x 15.1 long without the shaft or rear bushing. It s 22 mm long
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 5, 2012
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              The motor is flat on the sides with round top and bottom.
              It measures 10.5 mm wide x 12.3 high x 15.1 long without the shaft or rear bushing. It's 22 mm long with the shaft and bushing. It mounts to the bracket with 2 screws on the back which limits the motor case length unless I build a new bracket. The shaft is 1 mm with a 2 mm sleeve. The coupling tubing is in good shape and everything rotates smoothly. The motor is black and unmarked except for the +/- on the front. The motor gets pretty hot after a few loops around.

              --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, JOHN SPRATLEY <john.therailtoad@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Kent, Sounds like you may have a Faulty motor.
            • snookdust@aol.com
              The c-16s have the same piece of crap 10 mm motor and the c-16s have bushings on the axles that have lots of lateral movement. I had to epoxy mine in place or
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 5, 2012
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                The c-16s have the same piece of crap 10 mm motor and the c-16s have
                bushings on the axles that have lots of lateral movement. I had to epoxy mine in
                place or it looked like a thrashing machine going down the track
                Bob V.


                In a message dated 9/5/2012 2:25:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                Tranz4mr@... writes:

                The motor gets pretty hot after a few loops around


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • kschw80232
                I suspect that you were right and it was neolube. The wheels and engine had been custom weathered. Near the burnt spot there was a large drop of something.
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 5, 2012
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                  I suspect that you were right and it was neolube. The wheels and engine had been custom weathered. Near the burnt spot there was a large drop of something. When I cleaned them off with alcohol the weathering came off leaving the original semigloss black paint. Looks like the motor is another issue. I'll be re-motoring this engine shortly.
                • Bill Shivedecker
                  Please let us know what motor you use. Bill Shiverdecker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 5, 2012
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                    Please let us know what motor you use.
                    Bill Shiverdecker


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • JOHN SPRATLEY
                    HI Kent. just a suggestion but try a Mashima 12/25 flat can motor as a possible replacement .Regards John.Therailtoad.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 6, 2012
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                      HI Kent. just a suggestion but try a Mashima 12/25 flat can motor as a possible replacement .Regards John.Therailtoad.
                    • kschw80232
                      The opening in the cab is barely 11mm and the length of 15mm is fixed by the existing bracket that mounts to the end of the motor. I went with a NWSL model
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 6, 2012
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                        The opening in the cab is barely 11mm and the length of 15mm is fixed by the existing bracket that mounts to the end of the motor. I went with a NWSL model 1215 Flatcan Motor 10x12x15mm with dbl shaft. There appears to be room in the cab for a 10mm Flywheel on the back. I don't mind machining brackets but it probably isn't worth it for this engine. I've given up on this engine a few times. If this doesn't get it running it's off to the scape bin.
                        --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, JOHN SPRATLEY <john.therailtoad@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > HI Kent. just a suggestion but try a Mashima 12/25 flat can motor as a possible replacement .Regards John.Therailtoad.
                        >
                      • kschw80232
                        I installed the new NWSL can motor and flywheel. The motor was identical in size. Only hassle was the holes were diagonal on the motor while before they were
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 9, 2012
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                          I installed the new NWSL can motor and flywheel. The motor was identical in size. Only hassle was the holes were diagonal on the motor while before they were vertical. I drilled new holes in the bracket. As I took it apart I found loose screws, a motor bearing that was dry, a tender whose center beam had come un-soldered from the floor and a few other annoying items that needed work. I touched up the paint and weathering as best I could, fixed the tender and everything else. It now runs nice and smooth although its top speed is definitely close to scale as in slow. It can actually pull 4 or 5 cars up the grades which is an improvement and the flywheel seems to make it better at slow speed and through switches. Still not enough power to pull the CMX Track cleaner but it's actually a nice engine to run now.

                          Photos have been posted in the photo section in folder
                          "PSC D&RGW C-19 problem solved"
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/photos/album/0/list

                          Thanks for all of your help.
                          Kent Schwarz
                          Littleton, CO
                        • Mark
                          Kent, The CMX track cleaner needs rather more power to move it than a single C-19 especially on any form of gradient. It s not just the weight but the
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 11, 2012
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                            Kent,
                            The CMX track cleaner needs rather more power to move it than a single C-19 especially on any form of gradient. It's not just the weight but the resistamce cause by the dragging pad, so give the little fella a chance! I have to use pairs of engines to move mine around and even then they require a push every so often.

                            Mark K
                            Durango CO

                            --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, "kschw80232" <Tranz4mr@...> wrote:
                            >Still not enough power to pull the CMX Track cleaner but it's actually a nice engine to run now.
                            >
                            > Photos have been posted in the photo section in folder
                            > "PSC D&RGW C-19 problem solved"
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/photos/album/0/list
                            >
                            > Thanks for all of your help.
                            > Kent Schwarz
                            > Littleton, CO
                            >
                          • Kjb80401@aol.com
                            The CMX I use on the standard gauge section is pulled by a pair of six-axle diesels that have good tractive effort (and neat sound). That strength is needed
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 11, 2012
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                              The CMX I use on the standard gauge section is pulled by a pair of six-axle
                              diesels that have good tractive effort (and neat sound). That strength
                              is needed to negotiate up 3% grades.

                              Keevan


                              In a message dated 9/11/2012 6:31:53 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
                              marowicz@... writes:

                              Kent,
                              The CMX track cleaner needs rather more power to move it than a single
                              C-19 especially on any form of gradient. It's not just the weight but the
                              resistance cause by the dragging pad, so give the little fella a chance! I have
                              to use pairs of engines to move mine around and even then they require a
                              push every so often.

                              Mark K
                              Durango CO


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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