Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: What to use for cinders in the yard?

Expand Messages
  • ebt18
    Many years ago, when we lived in Pennsylvania, I gathered a large container of the soft, black cinder/soot that lay along the banks of the Horseshoe Curve
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 1, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Many years ago, when we lived in Pennsylvania, I gathered a large container of the soft, black cinder/soot that lay along the banks of the Horseshoe Curve outside Altoona. I still have some of it. The dual gauge EBT yard on my layout is covered with it. I did find, however, that pure black is unrealistic and bland, so I am adding some dirt and weed clumps between (and sometimes inside!) the tracks and especially in open areas. But it is nice to have a piece of railroad history on the layout.

      Russ Norris

      --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Ed Anderson <longlancetorpedo@...> wrote:
      >
      > What do you use for cinder cover in your yard?
      >  
      > Andy A
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Ernie Barney
      Has anyone used sanded grout with good results? I am considering this option. I would give it a good soaking of matte medium or white glue. [Non-text portions
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 1, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Has anyone used sanded grout with good results? I am considering this option. I would give it a good soaking of matte medium or white glue.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Hart Corbett
        Be careful in using anything from the natural world, such as fine black sand, etc. You ll find that many such things are magnetic. Use an inexpensive magnet
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Be careful in using anything from the natural world, such as fine black sand, etc. You'll find that many such things are magnetic. Use an inexpensive magnet to test it.

          If whatever you use has any magnetism at all in it and you've installed it on your layout (any scale), any loose grains of it will get into your motors and will raise !%&**! with them.

          With best regards, Hart
        • John Stutz
          ebt18 wrote: Regarding black cinder from PRR s horseshoe curve - ... Next time you visit any working coal burning steam RR operation, check out the ash pit.
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 1, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            ebt18 wrote: Regarding black cinder from PRR's horseshoe curve -
            >
            > ... I did find, however, that pure
            > black is unrealistic and bland, so I am adding some dirt and weed clumps
            > between (and sometimes inside!) the tracks and especially in open areas.

            Next time you visit any working coal burning steam RR operation, check out the
            ash pit. The cinders there are a mix of black and gray, often with traces of
            red and occasionally yellow-tan. The color mix depend on the impurities in the
            coal, particularly the clay and shale that fuse into the hard enduring clinkers.
            This is the stuff that gets dumped around yards, to give a porous non-stick
            working surface, or used to make up settlement on RR embankments. In either
            situation, the white ash weathers quickly and washes into the deposit, allowing
            the colors of harder components to dominate.

            The hard black obsidian like material that is still often used as RR ballast is
            usually furnace slag. I believe that copper smelting slag was once extensively
            used in the West, and proved very durable. That the residual metal content
            helps suppress the growth of vegetation was once a strong point in its favor.
            Iron furnace slag was used somewhat in the East, but apparently tended to
            weather and break down quickly. On the Pacific Coast volcanic cinders were once
            extensively quarried for ballast, mostly from red and occasionally from gray
            deposits.

            John Stutz
          • dsheber
            Hands down the best I have used is Scenic Express - Light and dark blends of fine cinder . Looks instantly weathered and is perfect for HOn3. Dave S. KD&VJ
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 1, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Hands down the best I have used is Scenic Express - Light and dark blends of fine cinder . Looks instantly weathered and is perfect for HOn3.

              Dave S. KD&VJ
            • Rick Blanchard
              At the SD Model RR museum N scale yards we just sprayed it all with grimy black and let time (dust, sweeping, cleaning , etc.) weather it out some. Rick
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 1, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                At the SD Model RR museum N scale yards we just sprayed it all with
                grimy black and let time (dust, sweeping, 'cleaning', etc.) weather
                it out some.

                Rick

                >Hands down the best I have used is Scenic Express - Light and dark
                >blends of fine cinder . Looks instantly weathered and is perfect for HOn3.
              • Daniel Geiger
                A cheap source of slag which is used for media blasting. It is like shinny black glass slivers. It is like a med sand but sliver shaped and may need further
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 1, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  A cheap source of slag which is used for media blasting. It is like shinny black glass slivers. It is like a med sand but sliver shaped and may need further refining to make fine enough.
                  handle with gloves and tools as it is very sharp and reminds me of glass. I have not used it for ballasting but have used it for media blasting which results in rounded edges after being used. The sharp edges may be interesting as ballast

                  Black Beauty Abrasive Description:
                  A black boiler slag abrasive with the following advantages: low moisture content, high degree of etch for permanent bonding of coatings, readily used in standard equipment in commerce, inert, fast cutting due to sharp angular edges, hardness, more economical, longer lasting and leaves minimum dust
                  http://www.reade.com/home/56

                  A MORE GENERIC PRODUCT BELOW

                  Black Blast Blasting Sand(really slag) $7.49 50LBs "BLACK BLAST"
                  http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/concrete-cement-masonry/cement-mix/black-blast-blasting-sand/p-1408386-c-5648.htm

                  Black slag abrasive
                  Hard & sharp
                  Consistent sizing
                  Fresh water washed
                  Safe to Use
                  Works with all blasting equipment
                  .75 - 2.0 mil anchor profile
                  Blend of 40-80 extra fine and 30-60
                  fine grit
                  For use with a ¨û¡± nozzle
                  http://ca.brockwhite.com/files/resource/prod_data/TCC_Black_Blast_Product_Data_Sheet.pdf


                  Dan Geiger
                  Naperville IL
                  USA
                • ebt18
                  Bob Brown had an editorial in the Gazette a couple of years ago about using sanded grout -- he seemed to have had a positive experience. I bought a box of the
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 2, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bob Brown had an editorial in the Gazette a couple of years ago about using sanded grout -- he seemed to have had a positive experience. I bought a box of the stuff he recommended to try in the brickyard part of my layout, but haven't used it yet.

                    Russ Norris

                    --- In HOn3@yahoogroups.com, Ernie Barney <ernie.barney@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Has anyone used sanded grout with good results? I am considering this option. I would give it a good soaking of matte medium or white glue.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Michael Greene
                    Dan, Beware using the Black Beauty blasting medium...it has a very high percentage of abrasive MAGNETIC material. It has great color and texture and I was
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 2, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dan,
                      Beware using the Black Beauty blasting medium...it has a very high
                      percentage of abrasive MAGNETIC material.
                      It has great color and texture and I was tempted to use it for a yard,
                      but when I dragged a magnet through it there was a very high
                      percentage of magnetic grit present. Death to motors, gears and
                      bearings.
                      When I tried the usual wet water and glue...over saturating it a bit
                      to try and lock it all down, it lost it's look, texture and some
                      color, so not worth the risk to me.
                      Michael
                      Boalsburg, PA
                    • BRENT
                      I have been experimenting with finely sifted coal (essentially coal dust). It looks OK, but I wonder if anyone else has tried this option? Brent
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 2, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have been experimenting with finely sifted coal (essentially coal dust). It looks OK, but I wonder if anyone else has tried this option?

                        Brent
                      • Mike Conder
                        To me, the coal dust is too dark for models.  In sunlight, maybe it s OK but under most model lights, the black looks too dead.  It also doesn t photograph
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 2, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          To me, the coal dust is too dark for models.  In sunlight, maybe it's OK but under most model lights, the black looks too dead.  It also doesn't photograph very well.  IMHO, YMMV. 
                           
                          A medium or dark gray may be better.  For example, classic Floquil grimy black is nowhere near black, it's gray, but it photographs pretty well and one's mind's eye adjusts for the color discrepancy.
                           
                          Also, if it's real fine coal dust (less than 1/64" size), it doesn't wet very well and is hard to get the standard glue/water mixture to penetrate.

                          Mike Conder

                          From: BRENT <brentwood@...>
                          >To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                          >Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 3:09 PM
                          >Subject: [HOn3] Re: What to use for cinders in the yard?
                          >
                          >

                          >I have been experimenting with finely sifted coal (essentially coal dust). It looks OK, but I wonder if anyone else has tried this option?
                          >
                          >Brent
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • 23weldon
                          Go look at the D&S roundhouse on Google Earth and you ll get some idea of the colors and variations. GE images are not always right on hues and saturation;
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 3, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Go look at the D&S roundhouse on Google Earth and you'll get some idea of the colors and variations. GE images are not always right on hues and saturation; but this one is pretty good judging from the colors of the vegetation. You'll see a range of colors from dark gray with brownish tinges all the way to light gray. I think I've mentioned this before; but with the continued suggestions of near black I thought I'd try the broken record one more time.
                            .............Ed Weldon

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Kjb80401@aol.com
                            I have been using real cinders in the past and pass a strong magnet through it before applying it. I ve heard one horror story concerning its use. A fellow
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 3, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have been using real cinders in the past and pass a strong magnet through
                              it before applying it. I've heard one horror story concerning its use.
                              A fellow did his large yard without removing metallic particles and when he
                              turned on the power, the circuit breaker tripped indicating a short. He
                              got out his VOM and checked around the yard and discovered the whole yard
                              was shorted out. The metallic particles constituent was the culprit. All
                              that track laying out the window and he had to start over. Just imagine how
                              he felt.

                              Keevan


                              In a message dated 6/3/2012 8:51:56 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
                              23.weldon@... writes:

                              Go look at the D&S roundhouse on Google Earth


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John Leow
                              Hart said........ Be careful in using anything from the natural world, such as fine black sand, etc. You ll find that many such things are magnetic. Use an
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 3, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hart said........
                                "Be careful in using anything from the natural world, such as fine black sand,
                                etc. You'll find that many such things are magnetic. Use an inexpensive magnet
                                to test it."

                                I can vouch for this.  I found some great cinders in the old unused DSS&A/Soo
                                Line yard here in Marquette.  Luckily, it dawned on me that since these
                                railroads used this yard to marshall ore cars for the dock, I'd better do a
                                magnet test.

                                Anyone want four coffee cans of magnetic ground cover?

                                John

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Dennis Larson
                                I ve used it for gravel roads, etc., I have concrete and beige colors. It would be a good base and could be tinted for cinders, etc. Dennis ... From: Ernie
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 5, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I've used it for gravel roads, etc., I have concrete and beige colors. It would be a good base and could be tinted for cinders, etc.
                                  Dennis

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Ernie Barney
                                  To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 12:05 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [HOn3] What to use for cinders in the yard?



                                  Has anyone used sanded grout with good results? I am considering this option. I would give it a good soaking of matte medium or white glue.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.